RE: Avoiding certain food items, like tomatoes, etc.

[Guest guest]

>Gee, we have always

enjoyed these types of " foods " , and with our heavy intake of probiotics, it

has not seemed to cause any problems. I am not sure if it is due to our

intake of probiotics, or not, though we have not experienced any

difficulties with these " food's " .

-

You've got a healthful diet. If you're not allergic to nighthades and go

easy on the heavy starches like potatoes, and eat your grains sparingly and

with the fiber intact, you're ok. Remember that Mercola sells and makes

money on grass fed beef, and his metabolic typing and his fish oils and his

diet book etc. I read Mercola and he provides some good info but his

motives are suspect.

rusty

BTW multi group postings will get you bumped from many groups.

rty

Avoiding certain " food " items, like tomatoes, etc.

>

> Hi to several list groups,

>

> So that all will know, I am making this posting to several group lists.

>

> I have been on some of these lists for awhile now, and some of the other

> lists for just a few days. What is catching my attention is that many

folks

> (and groups), not all, are making postings that encourage avoiding certain

> food items, that I personally, in the past, have thought to be of benefit

> for our health (or at least not to be considered unhealthy). I have heard

> Dr. Mercola (on TV, and on his web site), and a couple of others, mention

> that we should avoid some, or most, of these items, as well. I saw a

> posting that said we should not eat potatoes, tomatoes, chilies (peppers),

> eggplants, perhaps some other plant items, since they are from the

> nightshade family. Others have said similar things about onions and

garlic,

> wheat, corn, and all other grains (even rice).

>

> From what I have read, or heard on TV, most of those that think we should

> avoid these " foods " , say it is do to the yeasts, and or molds, that can

> possibly be found in these items. Gee, for years I have included most of

> these items in my (and my wife's) diet, to some extent. We (here at my

> house) eat mostly fresh veggies, and very little red meat, though we do

eat

> some chicken and fish (yes, once or twice a year we will eat some sort of

> beef). We do include, as much as possible, some of the good milk fats,

like

> butter, sour cream, cream cheese, and cultured milk products, like yogurt,

> and kefir, and we, or at least I, do kombucha. We eat corn tortillas,

whole

> wheat bread and whole wheat tortillas, lots of onions and garlic, often we

> eat chilies (peppers), and occasionally potatoes, often tomatoes, maybe

> once or twice a year eggplant (yum, baba ganoush). Gee, we have always

> enjoyed these types of " foods " , and with our heavy intake of probiotics,

it

> has not seemed to cause any problems. I am not sure if it is due to our

> intake of probiotics, or not, though we have not experienced any

> difficulties with these " food's " . I am getting the impression that some

of

> the groups, that I am sending this to, here, are encouraging a diet very

> rich in animal fats (no problem with me), and red meat, to the exclusion

of

> vegetables (particularly raw vegetables, unless they are fermented, which

I

> really like, and appreciate). Is this the case? I do not understand why

so

> many, here, are not encouraging the eating of raw vegetables (or minimally

> cooked). I have gotten the impression, here, that most of the people on

> these groups, encourage more of a red meat eating type of diet, with not

as

> many raw veggies. Gosh, what is the problem with the foods I mentioned,

> that most of you say are forbidden? Is it the possible mold, if so, how

> about washing these items well, and/or cutting out the presumably bad

> portions, and then cooking and eating?

>

> Gee, I am not trying to say, by any means, that anyone is wrong by

> purporting these beliefs, rather, I am trying to become more educated as

to

> why, or why not, what I have been including in our (that of myself and my

> wife) diets is good, or not so good. I do so want optimal health for me

and

> my wife, and then to educate my children to the same, who are now all

grown

> and out on their own.

>

> Hey, these groups are all so informative, thanks,

>

> huehue

[Guest guest]

Hi Huehue:

I don't know what group you refer to, but in the groups that I belong to veggies

are right at the top of the list for healthy eating - although there seems to be

some controversy as to the benefits of eating raw vs cooked and in what

proportions, etc.

As for Candida, leftovers (which might be moldy), sugars, white flour,

mushrooms, vinegars and wines and other such " store bought " fermented foods are

discouraged because they apparantly " feed " the Candida, although homemade

saurkraut, yogurt and kefir are recommended.

With regard to potatoes specifically, there is some thought that they should be

last on the list of veggies- not sure why - starch? and tomatoes are supposedly

hard on the liver. But, I eat and enjoy both - but as they say, moderation in

everything.

I have never heard any negatives about onions and garlic. Corn, on the other

hand is not a grain apparently and a lot of people have a low tolerance for it -

I know I do.

As far as I can see, you have a very healthy diet and should be congratulated

for taking charge of your health. You should live to 110!!

Cheers - p

From: wayland

wholefood ; ;

RawDairy ; nutrition ;

kombucha tea ; Kefir_making

Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 3:39 PM

Subject: Avoiding certain " food " items, like tomatoes, etc.

Hi to several list groups,

So that all will know, I am making this posting to several group lists.

I have been on some of these lists for awhile now, and some of the other

lists for just a few days. What is catching my attention is that many folks

(and groups), not all, are making postings that encourage avoiding certain

food items, that I personally, in the past, have thought to be of benefit

for our health (or at least not to be considered unhealthy). I have heard

Dr. Mercola (on TV, and on his web site), and a couple of others, mention

that we should avoid some, or most, of these items, as well. I saw a

posting that said we should not eat potatoes, tomatoes, chilies (peppers),

eggplants, perhaps some other plant items, since they are from the

nightshade family. Others have said similar things about onions and garlic,

wheat, corn, and all other grains (even rice).

[Guest guest]

I have to say having visited Dr. Mercola's website, that I don't

think you can take his claims very seriously. I'm not familiar with

all of his ideas but I can tell you that the things that he has to

say about avoiding distilled water are so ridiculous that you really

have to wonder what his deal is. He freely mixes religious ideas

with science without explanation in a very misleading way.

It sounds to me like you have a very healthy diet and I wouldn't let

someone who is either unhealthily obsessed with food issues or trying

to sell you some supplement to sway your thinking.

With respect,

Dr. Drew

> Hi to several list groups,

>

> So that all will know, I am making this posting to several group

lists.

>

> I have been on some of these lists for awhile now, and some of the

other

> lists for just a few days. What is catching my attention is that

many folks

> (and groups), not all, are making postings that encourage avoiding

certain

> food items, that I personally, in the past, have thought to be of

benefit

> for our health (or at least not to be considered unhealthy). I

have heard

> Dr. Mercola (on TV, and on his web site), and a couple of others,

mention

> that we should avoid some, or most, of these items, as well. I saw

a

> posting that said we should not eat potatoes, tomatoes, chilies

(peppers),

> eggplants, perhaps some other plant items, since they are from the

> nightshade family. Others have said similar things about onions

and garlic,

> wheat, corn, and all other grains (even rice).

>

> From what I have read, or heard on TV, most of those that think we

should

> avoid these " foods " , say it is do to the yeasts, and or molds, that

can

> possibly be found in these items. Gee, for years I have included

most of

> these items in my (and my wife's) diet, to some extent. We (here

at my

> house) eat mostly fresh veggies, and very little red meat, though

we do eat

> some chicken and fish (yes, once or twice a year we will eat some

sort of

> beef). We do include, as much as possible, some of the good milk

fats, like

> butter, sour cream, cream cheese, and cultured milk products, like

yogurt,

> and kefir, and we, or at least I, do kombucha. We eat corn

tortillas, whole

> wheat bread and whole wheat tortillas, lots of onions and garlic,

often we

> eat chilies (peppers), and occasionally potatoes, often tomatoes,

maybe

> once or twice a year eggplant (yum, baba ganoush). Gee, we have

always

> enjoyed these types of " foods " , and with our heavy intake of

probiotics, it

> has not seemed to cause any problems. I am not sure if it is due

to our

> intake of probiotics, or not, though we have not experienced any

> difficulties with these " food's " . I am getting the impression that

some of

> the groups, that I am sending this to, here, are encouraging a diet

very

> rich in animal fats (no problem with me), and red meat, to the

exclusion of

> vegetables (particularly raw vegetables, unless they are fermented,

which I

> really like, and appreciate). Is this the case? I do not

understand why so

> many, here, are not encouraging the eating of raw vegetables (or

minimally

> cooked). I have gotten the impression, here, that most of the

people on

> these groups, encourage more of a red meat eating type of diet,

with not as

> many raw veggies. Gosh, what is the problem with the foods I

mentioned,

> that most of you say are forbidden? Is it the possible mold, if

so, how

> about washing these items well, and/or cutting out the presumably

bad

> portions, and then cooking and eating?

>

> Gee, I am not trying to say, by any means, that anyone is wrong by

> purporting these beliefs, rather, I am trying to become more

educated as to

> why, or why not, what I have been including in our (that of myself

and my

> wife) diets is good, or not so good. I do so want optimal health

for me and

> my wife, and then to educate my children to the same, who are now

all grown

> and out on their own.

>

> Hey, these groups are all so informative, thanks,

>

> huehue

[Guest guest]

>? I do not understand why so

>many, here, are not encouraging the eating of raw vegetables (or minimally

>cooked). I have gotten the impression, here, that most of the people on

>these groups, encourage more of a red meat eating type of diet, with not as

>many raw veggies. Gosh, what is the problem with the foods I mentioned,

>that most of you say are forbidden?

I can't say for anyone else, but we do eat a fair number of raw vegies,

mainly as salads. I don't mention them much, because, well, they

are just so simple there's not much to DO with them. However I

do admit I'm eating more and more fermented vegies ... they are

more convenient and I think they digest better. You can't keep

raw lettuce in the fridge very long, but you can keep kimchi

for WEEKS.

As for cooked vegies ... I do eat them some, but they are rather

limp and pathetic next to kimchi. The only decent hot vegies

I've had lately are in Vietnamese soups, where you just pour

hot water over them or barely boil them. Or something like

celery greens in soup, where they are cooked into the soup

for flavor, or broccoli soup where they are pureed into the soup.

Tomatoes, potatoes, and some of the other vegies are allergens

for some people. Grains are allergens for other people. Milk is

an allergen for still other folks. If you react to a food you

shouldn't eat it, but it depends on the person. The thing about

meat is that few people react to it, which is probably why

you hear it mentioned so much. But the allergen issue is

a different problem than mold ... the food can be perfectly fine

and non-moldy and still cause a reaction. In fact, the researchers

have been pinpointing the peptide chains in the proteins that

cause the reaction.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

huehue,

I have some personal feelings/ideas if you will, on the subject of

diets. I really have no way of proving or disproving the validity of my

thoughts, but it is based on my personal readings,observations and

rationalizations.

Because of these, I believe in two rules of thumb, one is " Variety is

the spice of life " and the second is " Seasonal Eating " I believe that we

get into trouble with our diets when we limit ourselves to only certain

foods. By eating just one certain food, with the exclusion of all others

cannot be good. I believe our bodies need a variety of foods to maintain

good over all health. The second which goes hand in hand with Variety,

and equally important, is Seasonal Eating. I believe that our creator,

or Mother Nature if you will, has provided for a healthy diet by making

certain or different foods available to us at certain times of the year.

While modern technology and also means of transportation make all foods

available at all times, I don't believe that this was how it was meant

to be. I have always felt that variety was the key to good health, but

only recently was pointed to including seasonal variety as an important

factor as well. The reason for this was the fact that several years ago,

researchers announced that they discovered that smoked foods were bad

for you and found them to be carcinogenic. This was so confusing to me

because the Portuguese nationality traditionally have a diet which

includes a lot of smoked foods, for hundreds maybe thousands of years

this has been a staple why then wasn't the incidence of cancer high for

these people? Well, it seems that wine making is also a tradition, every

year beginning in late Aug. Grapes are harvested and made into wine. It

seems that the grapes are ground or mashed into a mush seeds,skin and

all and put into large vats and stirred at least twice a day for about 3

days, then it is strained, and pressed and the liquid is put into wine

barrels to ferment, after the wine barrels are topped off there is

always left over liquid, at least several gallons, but not enough to

fill another barrel, they call this the sweet wine and actually it is

just pure grape juice, everyone including children drinks this is is

such a treat, and they drink it daily for a few weeks until it is all

gone. Now that I have recently learned about the anti-oxidant properties

of grapes, and the fact that it has compounds that are actual cancer

cell killers, I figure that while they eat smoked foods all year long,

they always go through this cleansing period each year at grape harvest

time. So without even knowing it seems that in following the seasonal

trend, they are undoing any damage done during the rest of the year. Now

I know this isn't scientific and is just my observations, but it is

temptingly believable that there might be something to it. Anyway, FWIW,

these are my thoughts about it.

Luv, Sprite

" When you drink the water, remember the spring. "

 Chinese proverb

Check out my Kombucha Information page, it has links to all kinds of KT

info and more:

<A HREF= " http://www.geocities.com/ladyfangs.geo/Page5.html " >Sprite's

Kombucha Page</A>

[Guest guest]

> .....these are my thoughts about it.

Sprite, this article of yours was great, full of wisdom and valuable

observations. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter.

They are completely believable, livable and enjoyable.

the minstrel ...eyeing the red wine ;-)

--

+---------------------------------------------------------------+

Minstrel@...

www.therpc.f9.co.uk

+---------------------------------------------------------------+

A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand.

[Guest guest]

I'll drink to that. Kombucha and wine. :>))

[Guest guest]

@@@ Huehue:

> I have been on some of these lists for awhile now, and some of the other

> lists for just a few days. What is catching my attention is that many folks

> (and groups), not all, are making postings that encourage avoiding certain

> food items, that I personally, in the past, have thought to be of benefit

> for our health (or at least not to be considered unhealthy). I have heard

> Dr. Mercola (on TV, and on his web site), and a couple of others, mention

> that we should avoid some, or most, of these items, as well. I saw a

> posting that said we should not eat potatoes, tomatoes, chilies (peppers),

> eggplants, perhaps some other plant items, since they are from the

> nightshade family. Others have said similar things about onions and garlic,

> wheat, corn, and all other grains (even rice).

@@@@

When people talk about avoiding certain foods, it's typically not a

recommendation that *everyone* avoid them, just certain people. There

is tremendous variation in how different people respond to foods, and

typically plant foods have such a complex assortment of natural

chemicals that they can reveal subtle differences between different

people's physiology.

The fact that certain people avoid certain foods doesn't make them

unhealthy in general. Here's an extreme example to make the point.

Some people are allergic to shellfish such that they'd simply die if

they ate any. I think it's fair to say that shellfish are unhealthy

foods for these people, but for all the other people who don't have

this problem, shellfish are obviously among the healthiest possible

foods you can eat. For pretty much any of the whole foods that have

an image of being healthy, including all the ones you mention above,

there is a lot of good stuff in the food, but the issue is whether

there is any bad stuff that will prevent certain people from being

able to use them for the good stuff.

It is possible that certain common foods like wheat are universally

bad for all humans, but we really don't know, and when it comes to

foods like nightshades and alliums, there is no question that they are

wonderful foods for many many people, and probably the vast majority

of people will encourage you to eat them, not avoid them.

You'll find that on this list there are many people with a very strong

anti-grain stance, while there others who favor grains prepared using

the traditional wisdom collected in NT. It's a very controversial

topic.

Personally I've never heard of anyone advising against eating alliums!

And of course for any one such person you'll find a thousand others

who will say the opposite!

As far as Mercola's recommendations, keep in mind that he is a doctor

and his main concern is healing, which means dealing with the subsets

of the human population who have medical issues, often related to

diet, so he is gearing his messages towards people who are likely to

have problems with foods that healthy people have no problem with.

He is spreading a lot of good information and helping people who need

a major reality check and kick in the hiney to change self-destructive

food habits, but these ideas don't apply to *everyone*! If you're

having health problems, one of the smartest things you can do is

question your consumption of certain key problem foods, going down the

list and learning from other people's experiences with these foods,

testing elimination diets, etc, but if you're in great health, then

chances are whatever you eat is okay.

In general, if you find someone saying " you should do this or not do

that " without any qualifications about WHO their advice specifically

applies to, then that automatically gives their statements less

credibility. General statements like " you should not eat

onions/milk/meat/raw veggies/whatever " are just nonsense. There's

lots of bad advice out there.

@@@ Huehue:

> From what I have read, or heard on TV, most of those that think we should

> avoid these " foods " , say it is do to the yeasts, and or molds, that can

> possibly be found in these items.

@@@

I don't think that is the main reason why people recommend avoiding

the sorts of foods you're talking about. There are systematic,

intrinsic issues with certain foods that have nothing to do with yeast

or mold contamination. That idea of contamination probably ranks

very very low on the list of reasons why people consider certain foods

to be problems for certain people.

@@@ Huehue:

> Gee, for years I have included most of

> these items in my (and my wife's) diet, to some extent. We (here at my

> house) eat mostly fresh veggies, and very little red meat, though we do eat

> some chicken and fish (yes, once or twice a year we will eat some sort of

> beef). We do include, as much as possible, some of the good milk fats, like

> butter, sour cream, cream cheese, and cultured milk products, like yogurt,

> and kefir, and we, or at least I, do kombucha. We eat corn tortillas, whole

> wheat bread and whole wheat tortillas, lots of onions and garlic, often we

> eat chilies (peppers), and occasionally potatoes, often tomatoes, maybe

> once or twice a year eggplant (yum, baba ganoush). Gee, we have always

> enjoyed these types of " foods " , and with our heavy intake of probiotics, it

> has not seemed to cause any problems. I am not sure if it is due to our

> intake of probiotics, or not, though we have not experienced any

> difficulties with these " food's " .

@@@

Huehue, your diet sounds totally awesome!! I don't think anyone would

suggest that you should change anything. Well, some folks on this

list would certainly encourage you to eat more red meat if you have

the inclination or opportunity, though, because alongside fish and

properly prepared veggies, that is the number one food for humans!

And folks on this list would also encourage you to investigate the

possibility of using better techniques to prepare the wheat and corn

stuff, ala NT. If you don't have this book ( " Nourishing Traditions " )

yet, get it right away! It's what this email group is based on and

with your love of varied and healthy foods, you'll cherish it

immensely.

@@@ Huehue:

I am getting the impression that some of

> the groups, that I am sending this to, here, are encouraging a diet very

> rich in animal fats (no problem with me), and red meat, to the exclusion of

> vegetables (particularly raw vegetables, unless they are fermented, which I

> really like, and appreciate). Is this the case? I do not understand why so

> many, here, are not encouraging the eating of raw vegetables (or minimally

> cooked). I have gotten the impression, here, that most of the people on

> these groups, encourage more of a red meat eating type of diet, with not as

> many raw veggies.

@@@@

I don't think anyone encourages the exclusion of veggies. NT

encourages a diet rich in both animal food and plant foods, chosen and

prepared with great care and guidance from historical traditions, but

it also recognizes the tremendous diversity of healthy human diets,

including some with fairly small amounts of plant foods. As far as

raw veggies, well, each veggie is different. Some are good raw, some

aren't. There is absolutely no way you can make a generalization

about the benefit of heat treatment for veggies and humans. In the

broader world of health-conscious people, there is near universal

consensus that veggies are good, but there is great controversy about

animal foods, so it's only natural that people in this group who have

studied both sides of the animal food controversy will spend more time

talking about it and encouraging the consumption of animal foods. The

fact that people don't get excited about saying " eat your veggies "

doesn't mean it's not a good idea, but rather that it's a passe topic.

Further, many people are reacting against the widespread raw food

mysticism in current society, manifested by people who irrationally

eat raw veggies that are better eaten in other ways. Personally I eat

a mix of raw and cooked, and fermented and unfermented veggies.

@@@ Huehue:

Gosh, what is the problem with the foods I mentioned,

> that most of you say are forbidden? Is it the possible mold, if so, how

> about washing these items well, and/or cutting out the presumably bad

> portions, and then cooking and eating?

@@@

I don't think anyone's saying anything forbidden, unless it's for them

personally. For example, Heidi is famously intolerant of even tiny

amount of wheat gluten, so that food is forbidden for her, but since

you eat lots of wheat and don't have any problems with it, it's

certainly not forbidden for you! Like I mentioned above, the issue

of molds is an obscure and insignificant topic as far as I'm aware.

The common problem foods are problems because of special types of

protein they contain, toxic chemicals, anti-nutrients, indigestible

components, etc. None of this is related to molds.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Heidi Schuppenhauer [mailto:heidis@...]

>

> I can't say for anyone else, but we do eat a fair number of

> raw vegies, mainly as salads. I don't mention them much,

> because, well, they are just so simple there's not much to DO

> with them. However I do admit I'm eating more and more

> fermented vegies ... they are more convenient and I think

> they digest better. You can't keep raw lettuce in the fridge

> very long, but you can keep kimchi for WEEKS.

Weeks? I recently pulled out a jar that I'd had in my refrigerator for

nearly two years and had a bite. Not bad.

[Guest guest]

>Weeks? I recently pulled out a jar that I'd had in my refrigerator for

>nearly two years and had a bite. Not bad.

>

>

Heh heh. Good point. I did have some for a year or so, but it

got too sour ...

Heidi Jean