Re: Fw: How long do we have?

[Guest guest]

First I wonder what this has to do with Raw Dairy.

Second, I'd like to remind everyone that many of us here are products

of illegals who came to this country, worked hard and somehow managed

to become legal. I'm sick of the " all illegals are

murderers/thieves/rapists/deadbeats " and will ruin our country. Our

country is going down the tubes without the help of any " illegals " our

elected officials are all that is needed to ruin our country.

Have a good day.

Belinda

>

>

>

> How Long Do We Have?

>

> About the time our original 13 states adopted their new

constitution, in 1787, Tyler, a ish history professor

at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the

Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior

>

> " A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist

as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist

up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves

generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the

majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits

from the public treasury, with the result that ever y democracy will

finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed

by a dictatorship "

>

> " The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the

beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200

years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence

>

> 1. From bondage to spiritual faith;

>

> 2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

>

> 3. From courage to liberty;

>

> 4. From liberty to abundance;

>

> 5. From abundance to complacency;

>

> 6. From complacency to apathy;

>

> 7. From apathy to dependence;

>

> 8 From dependence back into bondage "

>

>

> Professor ph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St.

, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000

Presidential election

>

> Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million;

>

> Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000

>

> States won by: Gore: 19; Bush: 29

>

> Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2;

Bush 2.1

>

> Professor Olson adds: " In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush

won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great

country.

>

> Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in

government-owned tenements and living off government welfare... "

>

> Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the

" complacency and apathy " phase of Professor Tyler's definition of

democracy, with some 40 percent of the nation's population already

having reached the " governmental dependency " phase.

>

> If the Senate grants Amnesty and citizenship to 20 million

criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then goodbye USA in

less than 5 years.

>

> Pass this along to help e v eryone realize just how much is at

stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> See what's free at AOL.com.

>

[Guest guest]

First of all this has every thing to do with Raw Milk.

When this becomes a dictatorship my goats will be

gone because they will no longer be considered mine!!

Second of all I don't think the post was about

illegals...its about illegals that want to live on

wellfare; off the government. I have not problems

with hard working people who are willing to work for

their keep, thats what I am doing here...working hard

for my piece of land and for our freedom. Freedom is

not a free ride, if someone tells you its free your

getting robbed.

You have a great day too.

Sheila

twelvegates

[Guest guest]

I stand corrected. Didn't realize that there were so many " bad "

illegals, thought this was the number for all illegals:

" If the Senate grants Amnesty and citizenship to 20 million criminal

invaders called illegals and they vote, then goodbye USA in less than

5 years. "

Belinda

> First of all this has every thing to do with Raw Milk.

> When this becomes a dictatorship my goats will be

> gone because they will no longer be considered mine!!

>

> Second of all I don't think the post was about

> illegals...its about illegals that want to live on

> wellfare; off the government. I have not problems

> with hard working people who are willing to work for

> their keep, thats what I am doing here...working hard

> for my piece of land and for our freedom. Freedom is

> not a free ride, if someone tells you its free your

> getting robbed.

>

> You have a great day too.

>

> Sheila

> twelvegates

>

[Guest guest]

I think that the mindset for many people coming to our

" free " (lol) land is crushed when they can't make a

living, then they sign up for unemployment,

foodstamps, child care, and the likes. The truth is

that there are just not that many people willing to

" work " like our ancestors did, and that is because a

total mindframe of people....not just " illegals " .

That is how I read that input. I believe anyone

should be welcomed here...but not crazy about the

Gov't fixing everyones problems because then we are

dependent on them...just like the writing was about.

Sheila

--- labelleacres wrote:

> I stand corrected. Didn't realize that there were so

> many " bad "

> illegals, thought this was the number for all

> illegals:

>

> " If the Senate grants Amnesty and citizenship to 20

> million criminal

> invaders called illegals and they vote, then goodbye

> USA in less than

> 5 years. "

>

> Belinda

>

> > First of all this has every thing to do with Raw

> Milk.

> > When this becomes a dictatorship my goats will be

> > gone because they will no longer be considered

> mine!!

> >

> > Second of all I don't think the post was about

> > illegals...its about illegals that want to live on

> > wellfare; off the government. I have not problems

> > with hard working people who are willing to work

> for

> > their keep, thats what I am doing here...working

> hard

> > for my piece of land and for our freedom.

> Freedom is

> > not a free ride, if someone tells you its free

> your

> > getting robbed.

> >

> > You have a great day too.

> >

> > Sheila

> > twelvegates

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, Belinda, this has everything to do with raw milk if we

look at the political trends of what is happening. I also had a professor of

history that illustrated in “text” books as “Regulating the

Poor” ( see below) that planned dependency, just enough to keep folks from

rioting, but not enough security for them to become independent thinkers is just

what politicians are trained to do as a somewhat “passive” form of

crowd control.

But again how does this fit into raw milk? These steps are not

so different than Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, or Kubler Ross’s

stages of grief… they are an observance of a trend… so if we look

at our country/world as somewhere between complacency, and dependence and

bondage.. I think that folks who live in cities are already dependent upon the

systems in place… heck all of us are. How many can really be independent

without a grocery, feed store, gas station or home depot? Many people already

feel they are in bondage to jobs, huge mortgages, credit scores, keeping up

with the joneses etc, etc. Could it be that the whole Animal ID thing is all

about taking those last bastions of independent freedom thinkers and creating

an arbitrary dependence by law. Who can argue safety concerns? How do we make

them more complacent? Reined in…. controlled for “the better good

of the whole”.

With that said, I think as individuals, we can be anywhere on

that sliding scale that we choose to be. Whether we’ve gone out of our

way to create a cow share program, learn to raise, breed, and tend to a small

herd, we are seeing a lot of folks breaking free from the would-be bondage of

what the various institutions are telling us we need to be into areas of spiritual

faith, great courage, liberty and prosperity. In many ways, by forging ahead

and creating new/old lifestyles we are throwing back the clock on the greater

trends in the larger society, or perhaps moving forward beyond step 8 into Step

9 which completes the circle and starts over again: From bondage to

spiritual faith…

The day I bought my

farm, it felt like entering a whole new world that wasn’t shackled by

everything I had previously believed about the “way its supposed to be”

or even struggling out of what everyone else was telling me about the way it

was supposed to be. You, Belinda, are one of

the great pioneers in the grand new world by nature of doing and being who you

are. The frustrating thing is, of course, if most of the folks can no longer

think past their next pay check… or trying to get a 700 credit score,

then they don’t have time to consider how to live a different kind of

life, or why you living your life is of any value to them. But there are wonderful

thinkers out there, and folks who are promoting what we do.

I’m thinking

the key is teaching people about freedom. Freedom to choose what kind of milk

we drink, what kind of vitamins we take, etc. Gosh, how many city folks even

think they have a choice beyond the grocery shelf? Back to that bondage mindset…

like they say in the Matrix J it is a war for the control

of the mind. (Yes folks, many in Hollywood are actually on our side!! )

But more

importantly I think its about being a living example of being free.

OHMIGIOD! Did you see that woman drink raw milk on TV and she didn’t

die???? How courageous is that?? Like anything else it’s a sliding scale

and we have the power to decide where we are on it on a moment to moment’s

basis. When my cow dies and I slip from being courageous to bondage because I

think I am at fault… (I too had this happen to me… be a farmer long

enough and you will lose an animal.) There’s this wonderful list of folks

that can say, hey it happens there’s no reason to take on those shackles

of guilt, you are free to live without that.

Well then, there’s

also no room for apathy in a world where the cows need to be fed the roosters are

crowing and there are weeds that need to be pulled from the garden. I like this

list… it’s a neat barometer… I like to feel like I am hovering

somewhere from spiritual faith and abundance, though occasionally the others

slip in and I’ll go on a rant only to have someone point out the flaw.

Any hey, thank you

everyone for your posts regardless. I can’t always read them all and I’ve

created a file for some of the more useful topics… and even if something

twists my nose out of shape… I figure it might be helpful to someone else

here… so for those of you still with me J

On one hand we’ve

got the world trade pacts being made on higher levels and on the other hand we’ve

got the same people with a forked tongue screaming about putting up border

fences… sounds a bit schizophrenic unless you think it might be all about

separating people from people. Divide and conquer. Crowd control. It can only happen

if you buy into itJ What was the phrase? Disinformation? Seriously, if we

can get folks upset about some poor immigrants who have very little power in

their lives, then they are not looking elsewhere… who is really making

the changes? check out the book . You can get it on amazon…

Regulating the Poor: The Functions of Public Welfare (Paperback)

by Frances Fox Piven (Author),

Cloward

(Author)

http://www.amazon.com/Regulating-Poor-Functions-Public-Welfare/dp/0679745165/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-8511791-4910415?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1176127482 & sr=8-1

Just one more last

thing I want to say, I spoke with a Washington insider once about the abortion

issue… and he told me that the abortion issue is a stand that big

business takes to buy the vote of people who would not normally be on their side…

most blue collar workers will vote republican over the abortion issue even

though most of the policies made are not in the blue collar worker’s best

interest… so next time a politician pulls your heart strings… think

twice. Am I being played? Where on the scale does this man/woman want me to be?

And the democrats

aren’t much better as their big thing is gun control… they don’t

understand its tied to freedom… (or maybe they do) The average democrat

is complacent about civil liberties because they think gun control is linked to

crime in the streets. Wow sounds like raw milk? They think bad agri-buisness

practices will be cured with animal ID and pasteurization. It’s all about

disinformation… Hmm, it becomes a spiraling thinking problem Where do we

stand??? How to we show great courage, liberty, and the truth?

And how to create

bonds where the disinformation is trying to pull people apart? We all want

healthy for our children and ourselves? This is a good list to look at. May we

all open our minds and think clearly beyond bondage, hold undying faith, show

great courage, and know liberty with great abundance.

1.

From bondage to spiritual faith;

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

3. From courage to liberty;

4. From liberty to abundance;

5. From abundance to complacency;

6. From complacency to apathy;

7. From apathy to dependence;

8 From dependence back into bondage

[Guest guest]

Thanks for trying, Belinda. For the rest of you who are in the group with the kneejerk reactions prompted by raving " news " casters, try thinking about this instead of just regurgitating what you hear. Facts are so much more convincing than fantasy to a thinking person.

Who do you think started this anger against " illegal " immigrants (by this they only mean Mexicans, of course)? Corporate America loves this, encourages this attitude. Investigate why for yourselves.

The majority of " illegal " immigrants have overstayed visas, student, tourist, whatever, and at least half are from the other hemisphere (meaning not Mexican). They're invisible though. Much easier to get the population to hate easily spotted foreigners. Some of whom, might I mention, have been here since before any of us were.

This being a raw milk advocacy group, I'd think it would have enough intelligent, thinking people not to fall for the propaganda. G in TNOn 4/9/07,

Sheila Willhoite wrote:

I think that the mindset for many people coming to our

" free " (lol) land is crushed when they can't make a

living, then they sign up for unemployment,

foodstamps, child care, and the likes. The truth is

that there are just not that many people willing to

" work " like our ancestors did, and that is because a

total mindframe of people....not just " illegals " .

That is how I read that input. I believe anyone

should be welcomed here...but not crazy about the

Gov't fixing everyones problems because then we are

dependent on them...just like the writing was about.

Sheila

--- labelleacres wrote:

> I stand corrected. Didn't realize that there were so

> many " bad "

> illegals, thought this was the number for all

> illegals:

>

> " If the Senate grants Amnesty and citizenship to 20

> million criminal

> invaders called illegals and they vote, then goodbye

> USA in less than

> 5 years. "

>

> Belinda

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, my! You did that so much better than I! Thank you, thank you, thank you!Off to check on the book. Might I suggest: Targeted: Homeland Security and the Business of Immigration, Deepa Fernandes G in TN

On 4/9/07, Walasek <

karen@...> wrote:

Actually, Belinda, this has everything to do with raw milk if we

look at the political trends of what is happening. I also had a professor of

history that illustrated in "text" books as "Regulating the

Poor" ( see below) that planned dependency, just enough to keep folks from

rioting, but not enough security for them to become independent thinkers is just

what politicians are trained to do as a somewhat "passive" form of

crowd control.

[Guest guest]

My friend is an amazing author of several books....can you tell?

Love ya girl!

;-)

D.

moderator

>

> Actually, Belinda, this has everything to do with raw milk if we look at the

> political trends of what is happening. I also had a professor of history

> that illustrated in " text " books as " Regulating the Poor " ( see below) that

> planned dependency, just enough to keep folks from rioting, but not enough

> security for them to become independent thinkers is just what politicians

> are trained to do as a somewhat " passive " form of crowd control.

>

>

>

> But again how does this fit into raw milk? These steps are not so different

> than Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, or Kubler Ross's stages of

> grief. they are an observance of a trend. so if we look at our country/world

> as somewhere between complacency, and dependence and bondage.. I think that

> folks who live in cities are already dependent upon the systems in place.

> heck all of us are. How many can really be independent without a grocery,

> feed store, gas station or home depot? Many people already feel they are in

> bondage to jobs, huge mortgages, credit scores, keeping up with the joneses

> etc, etc. Could it be that the whole Animal ID thing is all about taking

> those last bastions of independent freedom thinkers and creating an

> arbitrary dependence by law. Who can argue safety concerns? How do we make

> them more complacent? Reined in.. controlled for " the better good of the

> whole " .

>

[Guest guest]

LOL! Well, it’s an older book, but it just shows that this

has been a part of the plan for quite some time. I’ll check your book (Targeted:

Homeland Security and the Business of Immigration, Deepa Fernandes) out

too thanks.

Pulaski, TN

[Guest guest]

Actually , I was thinking of you specifically when I wrote <grin>

“

OHMIGIOD! Did you see that woman drink raw milk on TV and she

didn’t die???? How courageous is that??”

You have been one

of my heroesJ

Pulaski, TN

[Guest guest]

I have no problem with the post but for:

" If the Senate grants Amnesty and citizenship to 20 million criminal

invaders called illegals and they vote, then goodbye USA in less than

5 years. "

If anyone thinks that the USA is going down the tubes because of

" illegals " then they have some serious mental problems. Our country's

biggest problems are located in Washington DC, not in any foreign

country. We shouldn't be afraid of people living at or below poverty

level, we need to fear the people we elected to represent our interests.

Our second biggest problem can be found in the mirror. Every time one

of us says, " They should pass a law " or " It shouldn't be allowed " or

" Somebody should stop them " we are giving up our freedom to choose. We

have, of late, watched the outlawing of certain foods in NY but as we

consider them unhealthy, it's OK. How's that OK?! We want healthy

foods for children in school so pass a law to outlaw certain things?

Are you kidding?! I've lost the right to show my goats because I can't

get a damn tag to stay in their ear for two weeks, but that keeps the

nation's food supply healthy so it's OK?

Ahh well. It was a beautiful day and I spent it inside doing jobs I'd

put off and remembering what it was like growing up with parents who

talked funny and worked hard.

Belinda

[Guest guest]

Belinda, no matter how you feel about illegal aliens (and I can argue

the question on both sides), if they came across America's borders

ILLegally, they are, in fact criminals. They are ILLegal aliens. It's

a huge economic problem for our country and a huge economic boon to

Mexico.

Patty:)

>

> I stand corrected. Didn't realize that there were so many " bad "

> illegals, thought this was the number for all illegals:

>

> " If the Senate grants Amnesty and citizenship to 20 million criminal

> invaders called illegals and they vote, then goodbye USA in less

than

> 5 years. "

>

> Belinda

>

> > First of all this has every thing to do with Raw Milk.

> > When this becomes a dictatorship my goats will be

> > gone because they will no longer be considered mine!!

> >

> > Second of all I don't think the post was about

> > illegals...its about illegals that want to live on

> > wellfare; off the government. I have not problems

> > with hard working people who are willing to work for

> > their keep, thats what I am doing here...working hard

> > for my piece of land and for our freedom. Freedom is

> > not a free ride, if someone tells you its free your

> > getting robbed.

> >

> > You have a great day too.

> >

> > Sheila

> > twelvegates

> >

>

[Guest guest]

We are fast approaching the point (if we're not already there) when

all a politician has to do to get elected is to promise more

handouts. The more poor are created, the more they will vote for more

handouts. It's getting scary.

Patty:)

>

> Actually, Belinda, this has everything to do with raw milk if we

look at the

> political trends of what is happening. I also had a professor of

history

> that illustrated in " text " books as " Regulating the Poor " ( see

below) that

> planned dependency, just enough to keep folks from rioting, but not

enough

> security for them to become independent thinkers is just what

politicians

> are trained to do as a somewhat " passive " form of crowd control.

>

>

>

> But again how does this fit into raw milk? These steps are not so

different

> than Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, or Kubler Ross's stages

of

> grief. they are an observance of a trend. so if we look at our

country/world

> as somewhere between complacency, and dependence and bondage.. I

think that

> folks who live in cities are already dependent upon the systems in

place.

> heck all of us are. How many can really be independent without a

grocery,

> feed store, gas station or home depot? Many people already feel

they are in

> bondage to jobs, huge mortgages, credit scores, keeping up with the

joneses

> etc, etc. Could it be that the whole Animal ID thing is all about

taking

> those last bastions of independent freedom thinkers and creating an

> arbitrary dependence by law. Who can argue safety concerns? How do

we make

> them more complacent? Reined in.. controlled for " the better good

of the

> whole " .

>

>

>

> With that said, I think as individuals, we can be anywhere on that

sliding

> scale that we choose to be. Whether we've gone out of our way to

create a

> cow share program, learn to raise, breed, and tend to a small herd,

we are

> seeing a lot of folks breaking free from the would-be bondage of

what the

> various institutions are telling us we need to be into areas of

spiritual

> faith, great courage, liberty and prosperity. In many ways, by

forging ahead

> and creating new/old lifestyles we are throwing back the clock on

the

> greater trends in the larger society, or perhaps moving forward

beyond step

> 8 into Step 9 which completes the circle and starts over again:

From bondage

> to spiritual faith.

>

> The day I bought my farm, it felt like entering a whole new world

that

> wasn't shackled by everything I had previously believed about

the " way its

> supposed to be " or even struggling out of what everyone else was

telling me

> about the way it was supposed to be. You, Belinda, are one of the

great

> pioneers in the grand new world by nature of doing and being who

you are.

> The frustrating thing is, of course, if most of the folks can no

longer

> think past their next pay check. or trying to get a 700 credit

score, then

> they don't have time to consider how to live a different kind of

life, or

> why you living your life is of any value to them. But there are

wonderful

> thinkers out there, and folks who are promoting what we do.

>

> I'm thinking the key is teaching people about freedom. Freedom to

choose

> what kind of milk we drink, what kind of vitamins we take, etc.

Gosh, how

> many city folks even think they have a choice beyond the grocery

shelf? Back

> to that bondage mindset. like they say in the Matrix J it is a war

for the

> control of the mind. (Yes folks, many in Hollywood are actually on

our

> side!! )

>

> But more importantly I think its about being a living example of

being free.

> OHMIGIOD! Did you see that woman drink raw milk on TV and she

didn't

> die???? How courageous is that?? Like anything else it's a sliding

scale and

> we have the power to decide where we are on it on a moment to

moment's

> basis. When my cow dies and I slip from being courageous to bondage

because

> I think I am at fault. (I too had this happen to me. be a farmer

long enough

> and you will lose an animal.) There's this wonderful list of folks

that can

> say, hey it happens there's no reason to take on those shackles of

guilt,

> you are free to live without that.

>

> Well then, there's also no room for apathy in a world where the

cows need to

> be fed the roosters are crowing and there are weeds that need to be

pulled

> from the garden. I like this list. it's a neat barometer. I like to

feel

> like I am hovering somewhere from spiritual faith and abundance,

though

> occasionally the others slip in and I'll go on a rant only to have

someone

> point out the flaw.

>

> Any hey, thank you everyone for your posts regardless. I can't

always read

> them all and I've created a file for some of the more useful

topics. and

> even if something twists my nose out of shape. I figure it might be

helpful

> to someone else here. so for those of you still with me J

>

> On one hand we've got the world trade pacts being made on higher

levels and

> on the other hand we've got the same people with a forked tongue

screaming

> about putting up border fences. sounds a bit schizophrenic unless

you think

> it might be all about separating people from people. Divide and

conquer.

> Crowd control. It can only happen if you buy into itJ What was the

phrase?

> Disinformation? Seriously, if we can get folks upset about some poor

> immigrants who have very little power in their lives, then they are

not

> looking elsewhere. who is really making the changes? check out the

book .

> You can get it on amazon.

>

> Regulating the Poor: The Functions of Public Welfare (Paperback)

> by

> <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/002-8511791-

4910415?%5F

> encoding=UTF8 & search-type=ss & index=books & field-author=Frances%20Fox%

20Piven>

> Frances Fox Piven (Author),

> <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/002-8511791-

4910415?%5F

> encoding=UTF8 & search-type=ss & index=books & field-author=%

20Cloward>

> Cloward (Author)

>

> http://www.amazon.com/Regulating-Poor-Functions-Public-

Welfare/dp/0679745165

> /ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-8511791-4910415?ie=UTF8

> <http://www.amazon.com/Regulating-Poor-Functions-Public-

Welfare/dp/067974516

> 5/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-8511791-4910415?

ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1176127482 & sr=8-1>

> & s=books & qid=1176127482 & sr=8-1

>

> Just one more last thing I want to say, I spoke with a Washington

insider

> once about the abortion issue. and he told me that the abortion

issue is a

> stand that big business takes to buy the vote of people who would

not

> normally be on their side. most blue collar workers will vote

republican

> over the abortion issue even though most of the policies made are

not in the

> blue collar worker's best interest. so next time a politician pulls

your

> heart strings. think twice. Am I being played? Where on the scale

does this

> man/woman want me to be?

>

> And the democrats aren't much better as their big thing is gun

control. they

> don't understand its tied to freedom. (or maybe they do) The average

> democrat is complacent about civil liberties because they think gun

control

> is linked to crime in the streets. Wow sounds like raw milk? They

think bad

> agri-buisness practices will be cured with animal ID and

pasteurization.

> It's all about disinformation. Hmm, it becomes a spiraling thinking

problem

> Where do we stand??? How to we show great courage, liberty, and the

truth?

>

>

>

> And how to create bonds where the disinformation is trying to pull

people

> apart? We all want healthy for our children and ourselves? This is

a good

> list to look at. May we all open our minds and think clearly beyond

bondage,

> hold undying faith, show great courage, and know liberty with great

> abundance.

>

>

>

> 1. From bondage to spiritual faith;

>

> 2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

>

> 3. From courage to liberty;

>

> 4. From liberty to abundance;

>

> 5. From abundance to complacency;

>

> 6. From complacency to apathy;

>

> 7. From apathy to dependence;

>

> 8 From dependence back into bondage

>