Guest guest Posted March 11, 2007 Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 Ronas' observation is interesting. One of our milk goats would literally let me milk her to death. We are grass/hay/mineral only; no feed. On this diet we have to ease her into once a day milking she will put her own condition after milk production wasting away to make milk. She does fine on OAD. It is heart breaking to hear her holler when the other ladies[which includes two irish dexters] head to the milk parlor. The s Amelia,VA > --- Re: Milch Cow... > > Date: Sat, March 10, 2007 7:09 am > To: rawdairy > > > > I always look at the simplest solution first, but it sounds like it could be right in this case. It's probably genetic. > Since she has the richest quality milk, she probably has the kind of genetics that breeds for very high production on the least amount of feed, with a possible smaller frame. Sometimes that makes for an animal that is more susceptible to health problems, including calcium issues that plague excellent producers, especially when they are on alfalfa. You know more about cows than me, but have you given her some super cal paste or something like it? It just sounds like too fast a demise to be something like nes, and her milk wouldn't be so rich if it had been many other illnesses. > > Rona Myers SullivanBonnyclabber Country Cheese1754 Mill Creek RoadWake, VA 23176 > http://www.bonnyclabbercheese.comhttp://www.southerncheese.com > MAKE CHEESE..NOT WAR...Rona > > When the government fears the people, you have LIBERTY.When the people fear the government, you have TYRANNY. Jefferson > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2007 Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 Ronas' observation is interesting. One of our milk goats would literally let me milk her to death. We are grass/hay/mineral only; no feed. On this diet we have to ease her into once a day milking she will put her own condition after milk production wasting away to make milk. She does fine on OAD. It is heart breaking to hear her holler when the other ladies[which includes two irish dexters] head to the milk parlor. The s Amelia,VA > --- Re: Milch Cow... > > Date: Sat, March 10, 2007 7:09 am > To: rawdairy > > > > I always look at the simplest solution first, but it sounds like it could be right in this case. It's probably genetic. > Since she has the richest quality milk, she probably has the kind of genetics that breeds for very high production on the least amount of feed, with a possible smaller frame. Sometimes that makes for an animal that is more susceptible to health problems, including calcium issues that plague excellent producers, especially when they are on alfalfa. You know more about cows than me, but have you given her some super cal paste or something like it? It just sounds like too fast a demise to be something like nes, and her milk wouldn't be so rich if it had been many other illnesses. > > Rona Myers SullivanBonnyclabber Country Cheese1754 Mill Creek RoadWake, VA 23176 > http://www.bonnyclabbercheese.comhttp://www.southerncheese.com > MAKE CHEESE..NOT WAR...Rona > > When the government fears the people, you have LIBERTY.When the people fear the government, you have TYRANNY. Jefferson > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2007 Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 Why are you starving your goat? If you can't feed her, sell her to someone who will. Would you spend all day working hard and come home to a day in day out diet of about a tenth the calories you need? Not hardly. Domesticated grain, domesticated animals and domesticated PEOPLE all went hand in hand. People have been feeding their livestock grains for 10,000 years. Yes, a good source of long stemmed fiber, either hay or grass/browse should be the foundation of your ration. And, grain fed to balance out your animals need for more energy. When you doe wastes, she is in ketosis and using body fat which is hard as hell on her liver. Ever here about fatty liver disease? It used to be thought it was just a problem in overconditioned animals. It's not. And, if they waste bad enough, they actually start using muscle, too. Go through it enough cycles and she won't live to be very old. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge, TN > > Ronas' observation is interesting. One of our milk goats would literally let me milk her to death. We are grass/hay/mineral only; no feed. On this diet we have to ease her into once a day milking she will put her own condition after milk production wasting away to make milk. She does fine on OAD. It is heart breaking to hear her holler when the other ladies[which includes two irish dexters] head to the milk parlor. > > The s > Amelia,VA > > > --- Re: Milch Cow... > > > > Date: Sat, March 10, 2007 7:09 am > > To: rawdairy > > > > > > > > I always look at the simplest solution first, but it sounds like it could be right in this case. It's probably genetic. > > Since she has the richest quality milk, she probably has the kind of genetics that breeds for very high production on the least amount of feed, with a possible smaller frame. Sometimes that makes for an animal that is more susceptible to health problems, including calcium issues that plague excellent producers, especially when they are on alfalfa. You know more about cows than me, but have you given her some super cal paste or something like it? It just sounds like too fast a demise to be something like nes, and her milk wouldn't be so rich if it had been many other illnesses. > > > > Rona Myers SullivanBonnyclabber Country Cheese1754 Mill Creek RoadWake, VA 23176 > > http://www.bonnyclabbercheese.comhttp://www.southerncheese.com > > MAKE CHEESE..NOT WAR...Rona > > > > When the government fears the people, you have LIBERTY.When the people fear the government, you have TYRANNY. Jefferson > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2007 Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 Donna, You are coming on a bit strong. There are plenty of people who do not grain their dairy animals and the animals are fine. Belinda > Why are you starving your goat? If you can't feed her, sell her to > someone who will. Would you spend all day working hard and come home > to a day in day out diet of about a tenth the calories you need? Not > hardly. > Domesticated grain, domesticated animals and domesticated PEOPLE all > went hand in hand. People have been feeding their livestock grains > for 10,000 years. Yes, a good source of long stemmed fiber, either > hay or grass/browse should be the foundation of your ration. And, > grain fed to balance out your animals need for more energy. > When you doe wastes, she is in ketosis and using body fat which is > hard as hell on her liver. Ever here about fatty liver disease? It > used to be thought it was just a problem in overconditioned animals. > It's not. And, if they waste bad enough, they actually start using > muscle, too. Go through it enough cycles and she won't live to be > very old. > Donna > Safehaven Nubians > Dandridge, TN > > > > > > Ronas' observation is interesting. One of our milk goats would > literally let me milk her to death. We are grass/hay/mineral only; no > feed. On this diet we have to ease her into once a day milking she > will put her own condition after milk production wasting away to make > milk. She does fine on OAD. It is heart breaking to hear her holler > when the other ladies[which includes two irish dexters] head to the > milk parlor. > > > > The s > > Amelia,VA > > > > > --- Re: Milch Cow... > > > From: Rona Sullivan <rona@> > > > Date: Sat, March 10, 2007 7:09 am > > > To: rawdairy > > > > > > > > > > > > I always look at the simplest solution first, but it sounds like > it could be right in this case. It's probably genetic. > > > Since she has the richest quality milk, she probably has the kind > of genetics that breeds for very high production on the least amount > of feed, with a possible smaller frame. Sometimes that makes for an > animal that is more susceptible to health problems, including calcium > issues that plague excellent producers, especially when they are on > alfalfa. You know more about cows than me, but have you given her > some super cal paste or something like it? It just sounds like too > fast a demise to be something like nes, and her milk wouldn't be > so rich if it had been many other illnesses. > > > > > > Rona Myers SullivanBonnyclabber Country Cheese1754 Mill Creek > RoadWake, VA 23176 > > > http://www.bonnyclabbercheese.comhttp://www.southerncheese.com > > > MAKE CHEESE..NOT WAR...Rona > > > > > > When the government fears the people, you have LIBERTY.When the > people fear the government, you have TYRANNY. Jefferson > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 I'm not letting her starve herself, she would if she were allowed. We would never allow that. I want no quarrel with you. I'm sorry the "E". communications allow no voice inflection or expression to be both seen,heard,and as consequence realized. Betty, our Saanen/Kiko is in fine health. She gives what we take, we take no more than is healthy for her. Come Visit www.bluestemfarms.com robie robinson whew --- Re: Milch Cow...> > > > Date: Sat, March 10, 2007 7:09 am> > To: rawdairy > > > > > > > > I always look at the simplest solution first, but it sounds like it could be right in this case. It's probably genetic. > > Since she has the richest quality milk, she probably has the kind of genetics that breeds for very high production on the least amount of feed, with a possible smaller frame. Sometimes that makes for an animal that is more susceptible to health problems, including calcium issues that plague excellent producers, especially when they are on alfalfa. You know more about cows than me, but have you given her some super cal paste or something like it? It just sounds like too fast a demise to be something like nes, and her milk wouldn't be so rich if it had been many other illnesses. > > > > Rona Myers SullivanBonnyclabber Country Cheese1754 Mill Creek RoadWake, VA 23176> > http://www.bonnyclabbercheese.comhttp://www.southerncheese.com> > MAKE CHEESE..NOT WAR...Rona> > > > When the government fears the people, you have LIBERTY.When the people fear the government, you have TYRANNY. Jefferson> > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 Thank you Belinda, Betty, the doe who has raised such due concern, is fine. We just had to cut back production to meet her ability to produce. She is fine. Pictures can be seen at www.bluestemfarms.com she is the one with my daughter Robie --- Re: Milch Cow...> > > From: Rona Sullivan <rona@>> > > Date: Sat, March 10, 2007 7:09 am> > > To: rawdairy > > > > > > > > > > > > I always look at the simplest solution first, but it sounds like > it could be right in this case. It's probably genetic. > > > Since she has the richest quality milk, she probably has the kind > of genetics that breeds for very high production on the least amount > of feed, with a possible smaller frame. Sometimes that makes for an > animal that is more susceptible to health problems, including calcium > issues that plague excellent producers, especially when they are on > alfalfa. You know more about cows than me, but have you given her > some super cal paste or something like it? It just sounds like too > fast a demise to be something like nes, and her milk wouldn't be > so rich if it had been many other illnesses. > > > > > > Rona Myers SullivanBonnyclabber Country Cheese1754 Mill Creek > RoadWake, VA 23176> > > http://www.bonnyclabbercheese.comhttp://www.southerncheese.com> > > MAKE CHEESE..NOT WAR...Rona> > > > > > When the government fears the people, you have LIBERTY.When the > people fear the government, you have TYRANNY. Jefferson> > > > > > > > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Marilyn, What kind of sprouts do you feed and how much does each animal get at milking time? I too do not agree that grain is the only answer to keeping weight on an animal. Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canadagdchik@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Hi ,Posted by: " Carlson " mistyhillsdairy@... mistyhillsdairy Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:36 pm (PST) Marilyn, W\hat are min/max minerals?Minerals developed by Kellogg especially for goats. ( ) These minerals must have the legal limit of cobalt because no matter how plain the milk tastes before the goat starts on these minerals, it is always sweet and delicious within two weeks. The claim is that even Toggenburg goats milk straightens up on these minerals. And what benefit is the kelp? Animals get all 90 minerals from the sea especially iodine, which that plant is good at concentrating. Read up on iodine here: http://curezone.com/forums/s.asp?f=815 & ob=d & c=2This is the link to the recommended messages. I just saved you hours of time because curezone can be overwhelming.Where do you get it? My farmer friend gets it by the pallet. They raise sheep. How much does it cost?Expensive. Maybe $30/bag. And the goats eat it like a human addicted to potato chips. However, I have no health problems and no vet bills, so I don't mind the investment. I'm curious about your management strategy.Thank you. I finally have a taker. <smile> On the other discussion forums, goat forums mostly, they completely ignore me whenever I tell them of a natural remedy, like kelp for pink eye. This just happened recently. I was the first one to answer. A few hours later five or more people chimed in with their drug therapies, which have their place when there is an emergency, so I'm not knocking the answers. I practice prevention here. I don't believe animals with health issues are deficient in drugs. No, drugs are not the answer. A quick fix sometimes, but certainly not the answer. Marilyn,who got three lambs this morning, our first lambs of the season-- Marilyn Kefirladymarilynjarz@... http://www.kefirlady.comPlease join our chat group:http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Good_Kefir_Grains/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 How much milk do you get from the Kiko crosses? There has been many discussions from both sides of the camp of the grain issue here. Quite passionite at times. Some people are just more adamit in forcing their belief that a dairy animal has to have grain or you cannot finish meat animals without it. I know animals can be finished quite successfully without grain if fed the proper grasses. I am very interested in how you manage yours without grain. What kind of hay are you feeding and what climate are you in? We raised all our replacements this winter without grain and most did very well. I think part of this is genetics too. Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canadagdchik@... RE: Re: Milch Cow... I'm not letting her starve herself, she would if she were allowed. We would never allow that. I want no quarrel with you. I'm sorry the "E". communications allow no voice inflection or expression to be both seen,heard,and as consequence realized. Betty, our Saanen/Kiko is in fine health. She gives what we take, we take no more than is healthy for her. Come Visit www.bluestemfarms.com robie robinson whew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 When we first started raising our own beef the husband was certain you couldn't get good tasting tender beef without " finishing " them. Around here it means locking the poor thing in a stall with not much room to move and all the grain and hay it wanted, this for a month. I wouldn't have anything to do with that. We slaughtered this year's steer. The boy had never had any grain. He is wonderfully tender, says the husband. <G> I love being right! BTW, he was a Jersey/Holstein cross, two years old. Belinda in TN > > How much milk do you get from the Kiko crosses? There has been many discussions from both sides of the camp of the grain issue here. Quite passionite at times. Some people are just more adamit in forcing their belief that a dairy animal has to have grain or you cannot finish meat animals without it. I know animals can be finished quite successfully without grain if fed the proper grasses. I am very interested in how you manage yours without grain. What kind of hay are you feeding and what climate are you in? We raised all our replacements this winter without grain and most did very well. I think part of this is genetics too. > Debbie Chikousky > Manitoba, Canada > gdchik@... > RE: Re: Milch Cow... > > > I'm not letting her starve herself, she would if she were allowed. We would never allow that. I want no quarrel with you. > > I'm sorry the " E " . communications allow no voice inflection or expression to be both seen,heard,and as consequence realized. Betty, our Saanen/Kiko is in fine health. She gives what we take, we take no more than is healthy for her. Come Visit www.bluestemfarms.com > > robie robinson > whew > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Our last freezer addition was an approximately 4 year old Angus/Shorthorn cow that refused to be a mom so she has fulfilled her other life purpose. It is the tastiest we have had other than steers with Jersey in them. She never saw grain either and I think age has a place in this. A younger animal is putting a lot into growing at the same time as a farmer is trying to get it ready for slaughter. When they are 2 or more they aren't using as much to grow and our dry cow was using her grass to put on finish. We took in a two year old steer to the butcher and he didn't know it hadn't had grain. complemented us on the carcass and said it would be really good meat. We are learning alot about all this as grain is getting very expensive along with not being good for CLA. Debbie Chikousky Manitoba, Canada gdchik@... Re: Milch Cow... > When we first started raising our own beef the husband was certain you > couldn't get good tasting tender beef without " finishing " them. Around > here it means locking the poor thing in a stall with not much room to > move and all the grain and hay it wanted, this for a month. I wouldn't > have anything to do with that. We slaughtered this year's steer. The > boy had never had any grain. He is wonderfully tender, says the > husband. <G> I love being right! BTW, he was a Jersey/Holstein cross, > two years old. > > Belinda in TN > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 That's what I've been telling folks, " we are too poor to grain feed our meat! " Belinda We took > in a two year old steer to the butcher and he didn't know it hadn't had > grain. complemented us on the carcass and said it would be really good > meat. We are learning alot about all this as grain is getting very > expensive along with not being good for CLA. > Debbie Chikousky > Manitoba, Canada > gdchik@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I think age makes a difference too. We have a 3 1/2 year old Holstein bull (no grain ever) in the freezer now. The flavor and tenderness is out of this world. We have the butcher cut up our meet in a day or two so it's not getting tender from hanging in the cooler either. I've never liked the thought of " aging " the meat. In '05 we butchered a couple of steers. One was 2 1/2 the other closer to 3. They had so much fat on them it was almost gross, never any grain either. The neat thing about grass fat is it isn't all greasy and it gives flavor that can't be beat. Cheyenne > > Our last freezer addition was an approximately 4 year old Angus/Shorthorn > cow that refused to be a mom so she has fulfilled her other life purpose. > It is the tastiest we have had other than steers with Jersey in them. She > never saw grain either and I think age has a place in this. A younger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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