Chicken rearing

[Guest guest]

Just because I no longer like Certified Naturally Grown, you now seem

to think I'm stupid. Just because you can raise your animals without

caring about them and can sell off any sick ones at the drop of a

hat, does not mean that your method of farming is the best.

I'm not new to chickens. I've raised them since I was a kid. I can

remeber being chased down by a mean rooster at 4 years old and

killing another mean rooster at 15. That is when we started raising

the chicks in the house for the first couple weeks, to keep them

friendly.

This is certaintly not my first batch of chicks in the house either.

This is our third batch this year. While, I might reconsider where I

have the ducklings, goslings, pheasant chicks, poults and keets; I

like having the chicks in the house.

I have a very nice brooder built for them. It actually takes up the

whole dining room, not the kitchen. (We now eat in the second living

room which has become our dining room). It has plywood floors and

walls with a tarp on the bottom of it covered with newspaper then

straw. I'll be adding a net over top for the pheasants, if needed.

I am well aware of the dust. The dust does not become a problem

unless you keep them in the there longer than 4 weeks. I only keep

them in here 2-4 weeks, depending on the weather. A basement is

generally a cold, damp place and birds would not do well in that

environment.

Keeping the birds in the house for 2 weeks during warm weather and 4

weeks during colder weather does nothing but help ensure their

survival. After that time, they get moved out into a barn, still with

brood heat if needed. I completely clean out the brooder in between

each batch and recyle the used straw into the pig barn.

I have 3 very nice barns. However none of them are a chicken coop

because those are the most disgusting things in the world. Not only

would I not cook my food in one, I won't raise it in one either. I

won't even eat eggs out of one. Chickens deserve better than that

too.

This winter, my bigger chickens and laying hens roam the pig barn at

free will. They have their safe area too that I provide fresh bedding

in, just like the rest of the animals. They can even go in and

outside on their own free will 24/7/365. There is no dust problem, no

ammonia problem either. After brooding in the house for 2-4 weeks, I

put the chicks in with the laying hens. Since I raise heritage

breeds, they seem to have a mothering instinct to help take care of

the little ones.

Once the little ones are 6-8 weeks old, and I can tell which ones the

cockerals are, I take the cockerals out. The cockerals then either go

into another big barn in the cold weather or outside in pasture pens.

I raise them until 3-4 months old since they are not production

strains that grow artifically fast. The pullets stay in the first

barn to eventually lay eggs.

In the barns they have hay and straw, plus their food. Outside they

have their food, grass and bugs. I'll be raising meal worms for them

starting next year (no not in the house) too.

Once the layers molt they will get moved out as well. Fast molters

will move into a portable chicken house with a rooster to lay and

hatch their own eggs, without an incubator. Slow molters become

chicken soup.

Eventually my goal is to not have to buy day-old chicks and have

enough fast molting breeding hens to lay and hatch their own eggs

without the use of an incubator. The unhatched eggs will be fed to

the pigs (after boiling them). Once that happens, I won't have

anything in the house to brood because momma will be doing it. Except

she'll do it without using up fossil fuels in the form of electricity

for the incubator or artifical heat for the brooder.

I am also perfectly aware of the problems of raising pheasants. I

intern at a farm that raises pheasasnts to release for hunters. They

give them proper enclosures and still have to put peepers (thats what

those " little blinders " are called) on them to avoid cannabilism. I

have been growing a fallow area of tall grasses specifically for the

pheasants and will plant some corn stalks for them as well.

We aren't buying " so many animals " . We are getting them a few at a

time. I have postponed getting sheep & goats because of wanting to

build the farm right. At this very moment we have 2 beef cattle (we

just took a steer in for processing), 17 pigs (soon to be 15 + lots

of piglets) and about 150 chickens (soon to be 250). We also want 3

milk cows. Come Feb 5 we will start getting up to 100 day-old birds

every 3-4 weeks for about 1000 birds total. We expect to sell 800 of

the birds for meat, pets and breeding and keep 100 for eggs and

breeding. So where are all of these " so many animals " .

If you are so concerned about " coccidiosis, salmonella and

campylobacter just to name a few things " , then you vaccinate YOUR

animals for them because they either have it or they don't. It

doesn't matter where you brood them for that. Nobody in this house

has been sick, except heat stroke, for as long as I can remember.

Even my 13 year old daughter who has Asthma when she is at her dad's

house, is perfectly fine here and NEVER has needed her inhaler here.

I have many customers that appreciate my methods, my humane treatment

of the animals and my goals to eventually raise them in a completely

natural way (not just " all-natural " but actually in natural

enviironments using natural farming practices such as biodynamic). So

why would I invest money in infrastructure that is not related to any

of these goals? Because YOU say so. Whatever!

" mamabice1 " wrote:

>

> I know that you are just getting into this so I hope that you re-

> think brooding birds in your kitchen.

> The first year we did chickens we had to brood in our

> basement.That was the last time. I never saw so much dust!It was

> everywhere! In that dust also happens to be chicken manure which is

> highly carcinogenic.

> They also carry coccidiosis,salmonella and campylobacter just to

> name a few things. All of these birds carry these things in the

> manure.Ducks and geese are really nasty birds to raise. Yes, we

> raise all of these birds but we do it in a brooder.

> I am not bashing you, I am trying to educate you. You wouldn't

> cook your food in a chicen coop would you?

> I know that money is tight for you. It is for us too.We waited

> until the following year to build a small brooder off of the side

of

> our barn with tax return money.

> Maybe you might want to hold off with buying so many animals and

> take care of this.

> Also, Pheasants aren't raised like chickens. They need alot of

> room. They also need cover such as long grass and tree branches so

> that they can hide from each other. They also need little blinders

> put on them because they are VERY cannilbalistic.

> These are the worst birds we ever raised and we did it once.

> I can't tell you what to do but getting sick over this isn't worth

> it.

>

[Guest guest]

I saw nothing anywhere near confrontational in Cindi's post, and I saw

nothing that looked remotely like she was inferring you were stupid.

What I DID see, in your reply, was an extreme confrontational

attitude. I saw a typical lawyer's " gotta win " attitude. Perhaps it

would be more accurrate to describe yourself as a lawyer that doesn't

practice any longer rather than as an " ex-lawyer " , as your " wanna

fight, gotta win, everything's a competition " posts are not indicitave

of an " ex " lawyer at all.

Just my observation...worth what you paid for it.

Bob...who is both " ex " and no longer practices either.

>

> Just because I no longer like Certified Naturally Grown, you now seem

> to think I'm stupid.

[Guest guest]

EX-Lawyer Bob,

You don't see anything in these following statements implying that

I'm stupid? Or that are confrontational?

" I know that you are just getting into this "

" I am trying to educate you. "

" You wouldn't cook your food in a chicen coop would you? "

" Maybe you might want to hold off with buying so many animals and

take care of this. "

" Also, Pheasants aren't raised like chickens. "

" I can't tell you what to do but getting sick over this isn't worth

it. "

My response was confrontational because my knowledge base, practices

and basic intelligence were being insulted. She was not that way with

me until I decided not to apply to be certified through CNG becaause

of some standards that she says whe helped write. But, thank you for

your opinion. I can be a bit assertive when I get put on the

defensive. It is not because of being an ex-lawyer but because I am a

passionate person.

" Bob Hayles " wrote:

>

> I saw nothing anywhere near confrontational in Cindi's post, and I

saw

> nothing that looked remotely like she was inferring you were stupid.

>

> What I DID see, in your reply, was an extreme confrontational

> attitude. I saw a typical lawyer's " gotta win " attitude. Perhaps

it

> would be more accurrate to describe yourself as a lawyer that

doesn't

> practice any longer rather than as an " ex-lawyer " , as your " wanna

> fight, gotta win, everything's a competition " posts are not

indicitave

> of an " ex " lawyer at all.

>

> Just my observation...worth what you paid for it.

>

> Bob...who is both " ex " and no longer practices either.

>

>

> >

> > Just because I no longer like Certified Naturally Grown, you now

seem

> > to think I'm stupid.

>

[Guest guest]

First of all, I am not going to lower my self to your level.

Congratulations. I never thought that I would see someone be able

to pull an argument out of nothing but you did it. You must be so

proud.

CNG is not a club and you weren't invited. You must be pretty full

of yourself to believe that I would remotely care if you are

certified or not.

I find you to be insecure, disrespectful,argumentative,abusive,

and a bully.

I give no credence to people like you.

I have watched you disrespect several people on here and it is

getting old. You look for ways to argue with people.

You had better realize that there are potential customers on here.

I have found a few from here. I don't need to put other people down

to make myself look good and I don't make it a point to disrespect

anyone.

You should be ashamed of your self for the way you treat people

here. Just because you don't like what someone has said does not

give you the right to shout them down and verbally abuse them.

- In RawDairy , " Charity " wrote:

>

> Just because I no longer like Certified Naturally Grown, you now

seem

> to think I'm stupid. Just because you can raise your animals

without

> caring about them and can sell off any sick ones at the drop of a

> hat, does not mean that your method of farming is the best.

>

> I'm not new to chickens. I've raised them since I was a kid. I can

> remeber being chased down by a mean rooster at 4 years old and

> killing another mean rooster at 15. That is when we started

raising

> the chicks in the house for the first couple weeks, to keep them

> friendly.

>

> This is certaintly not my first batch of chicks in the house

either.

> This is our third batch this year. While, I might reconsider where

I

> have the ducklings, goslings, pheasant chicks, poults and keets; I

> like having the chicks in the house.

>

> I have a very nice brooder built for them. It actually takes up

the

> whole dining room, not the kitchen. (We now eat in the second

living

> room which has become our dining room). It has plywood floors and

> walls with a tarp on the bottom of it covered with newspaper then

> straw. I'll be adding a net over top for the pheasants, if needed.

>

> I am well aware of the dust. The dust does not become a problem

> unless you keep them in the there longer than 4 weeks. I only keep

> them in here 2-4 weeks, depending on the weather. A basement is

> generally a cold, damp place and birds would not do well in that

> environment.

>

> Keeping the birds in the house for 2 weeks during warm weather and

4

> weeks during colder weather does nothing but help ensure their

> survival. After that time, they get moved out into a barn, still

with

> brood heat if needed. I completely clean out the brooder in

between

> each batch and recyle the used straw into the pig barn.

>

> I have 3 very nice barns. However none of them are a chicken coop

> because those are the most disgusting things in the world. Not

only

> would I not cook my food in one, I won't raise it in one either. I

> won't even eat eggs out of one. Chickens deserve better than that

> too.

>

> This winter, my bigger chickens and laying hens roam the pig barn

at

> free will. They have their safe area too that I provide fresh

bedding

> in, just like the rest of the animals. They can even go in and

> outside on their own free will 24/7/365. There is no dust problem,

no

> ammonia problem either. After brooding in the house for 2-4 weeks,

I

> put the chicks in with the laying hens. Since I raise heritage

> breeds, they seem to have a mothering instinct to help take care

of

> the little ones.

>

> Once the little ones are 6-8 weeks old, and I can tell which ones

the

> cockerals are, I take the cockerals out. The cockerals then either

go

> into another big barn in the cold weather or outside in pasture

pens.

> I raise them until 3-4 months old since they are not production

> strains that grow artifically fast. The pullets stay in the first

> barn to eventually lay eggs.

>

> In the barns they have hay and straw, plus their food. Outside

they

> have their food, grass and bugs. I'll be raising meal worms for

them

> starting next year (no not in the house) too.

>

> Once the layers molt they will get moved out as well. Fast molters

> will move into a portable chicken house with a rooster to lay and

> hatch their own eggs, without an incubator. Slow molters become

> chicken soup.

>

> Eventually my goal is to not have to buy day-old chicks and have

> enough fast molting breeding hens to lay and hatch their own eggs

> without the use of an incubator. The unhatched eggs will be fed to

> the pigs (after boiling them). Once that happens, I won't have

> anything in the house to brood because momma will be doing it.

Except

> she'll do it without using up fossil fuels in the form of

electricity

> for the incubator or artifical heat for the brooder.

>

> I am also perfectly aware of the problems of raising pheasants. I

> intern at a farm that raises pheasasnts to release for hunters.

They

> give them proper enclosures and still have to put peepers (thats

what

> those " little blinders " are called) on them to avoid cannabilism.

I

> have been growing a fallow area of tall grasses specifically for

the

> pheasants and will plant some corn stalks for them as well.

>

> We aren't buying " so many animals " . We are getting them a few at a

> time. I have postponed getting sheep & goats because of wanting to

> build the farm right. At this very moment we have 2 beef cattle

(we

> just took a steer in for processing), 17 pigs (soon to be 15 +

lots

> of piglets) and about 150 chickens (soon to be 250). We also want

3

> milk cows. Come Feb 5 we will start getting up to 100 day-old

birds

> every 3-4 weeks for about 1000 birds total. We expect to sell 800

of

> the birds for meat, pets and breeding and keep 100 for eggs and

> breeding. So where are all of these " so many animals " .

>

> If you are so concerned about " coccidiosis, salmonella and

> campylobacter just to name a few things " , then you vaccinate YOUR

> animals for them because they either have it or they don't. It

> doesn't matter where you brood them for that. Nobody in this house

> has been sick, except heat stroke, for as long as I can remember.

> Even my 13 year old daughter who has Asthma when she is at her

dad's

> house, is perfectly fine here and NEVER has needed her inhaler

here.

>

> I have many customers that appreciate my methods, my humane

treatment

> of the animals and my goals to eventually raise them in a

completely

> natural way (not just " all-natural " but actually in natural

> enviironments using natural farming practices such as biodynamic).

So

> why would I invest money in infrastructure that is not related to

any

> of these goals? Because YOU say so. Whatever!

>

> " mamabice1 " <mamabice1@> wrote:

> >

> > I know that you are just getting into this so I hope that you

re-

> > think brooding birds in your kitchen.

> > The first year we did chickens we had to brood in our

> > basement.That was the last time. I never saw so much dust!It was

> > everywhere! In that dust also happens to be chicken manure which

is

> > highly carcinogenic.

> > They also carry coccidiosis,salmonella and campylobacter just

to

> > name a few things. All of these birds carry these things in the

> > manure.Ducks and geese are really nasty birds to raise. Yes, we

> > raise all of these birds but we do it in a brooder.

> > I am not bashing you, I am trying to educate you. You wouldn't

> > cook your food in a chicen coop would you?

> > I know that money is tight for you. It is for us too.We waited

> > until the following year to build a small brooder off of the

side

> of

> > our barn with tax return money.

> > Maybe you might want to hold off with buying so many animals

and

> > take care of this.

> > Also, Pheasants aren't raised like chickens. They need alot of

> > room. They also need cover such as long grass and tree branches

so

> > that they can hide from each other. They also need little

blinders

> > put on them because they are VERY cannilbalistic.

> > These are the worst birds we ever raised and we did it once.

> > I can't tell you what to do but getting sick over this isn't

worth

> > it.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > I know that you are just getting into this so I hope that you

re-

> > think brooding birds in your kitchen.

> > The first year we did chickens we had to brood in our

> > basement.That was the last time. I never saw so much dust!It was

> > everywhere! In that dust also happens to be chicken manure which

is

> > highly carcinogenic.

> > They also carry coccidiosis,salmonella and campylobacter just

to

> > name a few things. All of these birds carry these things in the

> > manure.Ducks and geese are really nasty birds to raise. Yes, we

> > raise all of these birds but we do it in a brooder.

> > I am not bashing you, I am trying to educate you. You wouldn't

> > cook your food in a chicen coop would you?

> > I know that money is tight for you. It is for us too.We waited

> > until the following year to build a small brooder off of the

side

> of

> > our barn with tax return money.

> > Maybe you might want to hold off with buying so many animals

and

> > take care of this.

> > Also, Pheasants aren't raised like chickens. They need alot of

> > room. They also need cover such as long grass and tree branches

so

> > that they can hide from each other. They also need little

blinders

> > put on them because they are VERY cannilbalistic.

> > These are the worst birds we ever raised and we did it once.

> > I can't tell you what to do but getting sick over this isn't

worth

> > it.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Bob, you are correct. Finally a voice of reason.

In RawDairy , " Bob Hayles " wrote:

>

> I saw nothing anywhere near confrontational in Cindi's post, and I

saw

> nothing that looked remotely like she was inferring you were

stupid.

>

> What I DID see, in your reply, was an extreme confrontational

> attitude. I saw a typical lawyer's " gotta win " attitude. Perhaps

it

> would be more accurrate to describe yourself as a lawyer that

doesn't

> practice any longer rather than as an " ex-lawyer " , as your " wanna

> fight, gotta win, everything's a competition " posts are not

indicitave

> of an " ex " lawyer at all.

>

> Just my observation...worth what you paid for it.

>

> Bob...who is both " ex " and no longer practices either.

>

>

> >

> > Just because I no longer like Certified Naturally Grown, you now

seem

> > to think I'm stupid.

>

[Guest guest]

You forgot the sentence that said that it was not to bash.

Saying that you are a passionate person is a pathetic excuse of an

attempt to explain bad behavior.

Passionate people don't abuse.

In RawDairy , " Charity " wrote:

>

> EX-Lawyer Bob,

>

> You don't see anything in these following statements implying that

> I'm stupid? Or that are confrontational?

>

> " I know that you are just getting into this "

>

> " I am trying to educate you. "

>

> " You wouldn't cook your food in a chicen coop would you? "

>

> " Maybe you might want to hold off with buying so many animals and

> take care of this. "

>

> " Also, Pheasants aren't raised like chickens. "

>

> " I can't tell you what to do but getting sick over this isn't

worth

> it. "

>

>

> My response was confrontational because my knowledge base,

practices

> and basic intelligence were being insulted. She was not that way

with

> me until I decided not to apply to be certified through CNG

becaause

> of some standards that she says whe helped write. But, thank you

for

> your opinion. I can be a bit assertive when I get put on the

> defensive. It is not because of being an ex-lawyer but because I

am a

> passionate person.

>

>

> " Bob Hayles " <bubbabob@> wrote:

> >

> > I saw nothing anywhere near confrontational in Cindi's post, and

I

> saw

> > nothing that looked remotely like she was inferring you were

stupid.

> >

> > What I DID see, in your reply, was an extreme confrontational

> > attitude. I saw a typical lawyer's " gotta win " attitude.

Perhaps

> it

> > would be more accurrate to describe yourself as a lawyer that

> doesn't

> > practice any longer rather than as an " ex-lawyer " , as your " wanna

> > fight, gotta win, everything's a competition " posts are not

> indicitave

> > of an " ex " lawyer at all.

> >

> > Just my observation...worth what you paid for it.

> >

> > Bob...who is both " ex " and no longer practices either.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Just because I no longer like Certified Naturally Grown, you

now

> seem

> > > to think I'm stupid.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Actually I WAS invited to apply for CNG certification a couple of

months ago. THATS why I WAS considering it.

I do not LOOK for ways to argue with people. I stand up for myself

when I'm being ridiculed or insulted. I in NO WAY was abusive or

disrespectful towards anybody. Even you!

However, EVERYTHING you just said in your last post was very

disrespecftul, insulting and down right abusive. Other than thinking

you were calling me stupid, I in no way insulted you or called you

names! So who is really the " insecure, disrespectful,argumentative

(and) abusive " one that is " full of (themselves) " " and a bully " . Be

proud, oh " so proud " . " You should be ashamed of your self for the way

you treat people here. " " Congratulations " , you just turned a

disagreement into a street fight.

You made assumptions about me and I was insulted. Therefore, I

defended myself. End of story. Enough already, your assumptions were

wrong and I'm not going to just roll-over for you to kick around

more. Don't make this anymore nasty than you already have. Besides,

any chicken rearing " tips " you had for me should've been sent

privately to start with. This isn't a cicken or poultry group - its a

dairy group. I'm in here because I have the experience of working on

two dairy farms and am looking at having a micro-dairy myself. Not to

have to defend myself to you. My origional post was in response to

somebody's question to me.

" mamabice1 " wrote:

>

> I am not going to lower my self to your level. Congratulations. I

never thought that I would see someone be able to pull an argument

out of nothing but you did it. You must be so proud. CNG is not a

club and you weren't invited. You must be pretty full of yourself to

believe that I would remotely care if you are certified or not. I

find you to be insecure, disrespectful,argumentative,abusive, and a

bully. I give no credence to people like you. You look for ways to

argue with people. I don't need to put other people down to make

myself look good and I don't make it a point to disrespect anyone.

You should be ashamed of your self for the way you treat people here.

Just because you don't like what someone has said does not give you

the right to shout them down and verbally abuse them.

>

>

>

>

>

> - In RawDairy , " Charity " <Charity@> wrote:

> >

> > Just because I no longer like Certified Naturally Grown, you now

> seem

> > to think I'm stupid. Just because you can raise your animals

> without

> > caring about them and can sell off any sick ones at the drop of a

> > hat, does not mean that your method of farming is the best.

> >

> > I'm not new to chickens. I've raised them since I was a kid. I

can

> > remeber being chased down by a mean rooster at 4 years old and

> > killing another mean rooster at 15. That is when we started

> raising

> > the chicks in the house for the first couple weeks, to keep them

> > friendly.

> >

> > This is certaintly not my first batch of chicks in the house

> either.

> > This is our third batch this year. While, I might reconsider

where

> I

> > have the ducklings, goslings, pheasant chicks, poults and keets;

I

> > like having the chicks in the house.

> >

> > I have a very nice brooder built for them. It actually takes up

> the

> > whole dining room, not the kitchen. (We now eat in the second

> living

> > room which has become our dining room). It has plywood floors and

> > walls with a tarp on the bottom of it covered with newspaper then

> > straw. I'll be adding a net over top for the pheasants, if

needed.

> >

> > I am well aware of the dust. The dust does not become a problem

> > unless you keep them in the there longer than 4 weeks. I only

keep

> > them in here 2-4 weeks, depending on the weather. A basement is

> > generally a cold, damp place and birds would not do well in that

> > environment.

> >

> > Keeping the birds in the house for 2 weeks during warm weather

and

> 4

> > weeks during colder weather does nothing but help ensure their

> > survival. After that time, they get moved out into a barn, still

> with

> > brood heat if needed. I completely clean out the brooder in

> between

> > each batch and recyle the used straw into the pig barn.

> >

> > I have 3 very nice barns. However none of them are a chicken coop

> > because those are the most disgusting things in the world. Not

> only

> > would I not cook my food in one, I won't raise it in one either.

I

> > won't even eat eggs out of one. Chickens deserve better than that

> > too.

> >

> > This winter, my bigger chickens and laying hens roam the pig barn

> at

> > free will. They have their safe area too that I provide fresh

> bedding

> > in, just like the rest of the animals. They can even go in and

> > outside on their own free will 24/7/365. There is no dust

problem,

> no

> > ammonia problem either. After brooding in the house for 2-4

weeks,

> I

> > put the chicks in with the laying hens. Since I raise heritage

> > breeds, they seem to have a mothering instinct to help take care

> of

> > the little ones.

> >

> > Once the little ones are 6-8 weeks old, and I can tell which ones

> the

> > cockerals are, I take the cockerals out. The cockerals then

either

> go

> > into another big barn in the cold weather or outside in pasture

> pens.

> > I raise them until 3-4 months old since they are not production

> > strains that grow artifically fast. The pullets stay in the first

> > barn to eventually lay eggs.

> >

> > In the barns they have hay and straw, plus their food. Outside

> they

> > have their food, grass and bugs. I'll be raising meal worms for

> them

> > starting next year (no not in the house) too.

> >

> > Once the layers molt they will get moved out as well. Fast

molters

> > will move into a portable chicken house with a rooster to lay and

> > hatch their own eggs, without an incubator. Slow molters become

> > chicken soup.

> >

> > Eventually my goal is to not have to buy day-old chicks and have

> > enough fast molting breeding hens to lay and hatch their own eggs

> > without the use of an incubator. The unhatched eggs will be fed

to

> > the pigs (after boiling them). Once that happens, I won't have

> > anything in the house to brood because momma will be doing it.

> Except

> > she'll do it without using up fossil fuels in the form of

> electricity

> > for the incubator or artifical heat for the brooder.

> >

> > I am also perfectly aware of the problems of raising pheasants. I

> > intern at a farm that raises pheasasnts to release for hunters.

> They

> > give them proper enclosures and still have to put peepers (thats

> what

> > those " little blinders " are called) on them to avoid cannabilism.

> I

> > have been growing a fallow area of tall grasses specifically for

> the

> > pheasants and will plant some corn stalks for them as well.

> >

> > We aren't buying " so many animals " . We are getting them a few at

a

> > time. I have postponed getting sheep & goats because of wanting

to

> > build the farm right. At this very moment we have 2 beef cattle

> (we

> > just took a steer in for processing), 17 pigs (soon to be 15 +

> lots

> > of piglets) and about 150 chickens (soon to be 250). We also want

> 3

> > milk cows. Come Feb 5 we will start getting up to 100 day-old

> birds

> > every 3-4 weeks for about 1000 birds total. We expect to sell

800

> of

> > the birds for meat, pets and breeding and keep 100 for eggs and

> > breeding. So where are all of these " so many animals " .

> >

> > If you are so concerned about " coccidiosis, salmonella and

> > campylobacter just to name a few things " , then you vaccinate YOUR

> > animals for them because they either have it or they don't. It

> > doesn't matter where you brood them for that. Nobody in this

house

> > has been sick, except heat stroke, for as long as I can remember.

> > Even my 13 year old daughter who has Asthma when she is at her

> dad's

> > house, is perfectly fine here and NEVER has needed her inhaler

> here.

> >

> > I have many customers that appreciate my methods, my humane

> treatment

> > of the animals and my goals to eventually raise them in a

> completely

> > natural way (not just " all-natural " but actually in natural

> > enviironments using natural farming practices such as

biodynamic).

> So

> > why would I invest money in infrastructure that is not related to

> any

> > of these goals? Because YOU say so. Whatever!

> >

> > " mamabice1 " <mamabice1@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I know that you are just getting into this so I hope that you

> re-

> > > think brooding birds in your kitchen.

> > > The first year we did chickens we had to brood in our

> > > basement.That was the last time. I never saw so much dust!It

was

> > > everywhere! In that dust also happens to be chicken manure

which

> is

> > > highly carcinogenic.

> > > They also carry coccidiosis,salmonella and campylobacter just

> to

> > > name a few things. All of these birds carry these things in the

> > > manure.Ducks and geese are really nasty birds to raise. Yes, we

> > > raise all of these birds but we do it in a brooder.

> > > I am not bashing you, I am trying to educate you. You

wouldn't

> > > cook your food in a chicen coop would you?

> > > I know that money is tight for you. It is for us too.We

waited

> > > until the following year to build a small brooder off of the

> side

> > of

> > > our barn with tax return money.

> > > Maybe you might want to hold off with buying so many animals

> and

> > > take care of this.

> > > Also, Pheasants aren't raised like chickens. They need alot

of

> > > room. They also need cover such as long grass and tree branches

> so

> > > that they can hide from each other. They also need little

> blinders

> > > put on them because they are VERY cannilbalistic.

> > > These are the worst birds we ever raised and we did it once.

> > > I can't tell you what to do but getting sick over this isn't

> worth

> > > it.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> I do not LOOK for ways to argue with people. I stand up for myself

> when I'm being ridiculed or insulted. I in NO WAY was abusive or

> disrespectful towards anybody. Even you!

You might look at the fact that you fight with EVERYONE. Were it just

one person that always gave you a hard time, perhaps your claim that

you do not look for ways to argue with people would be beliveable, but

it's not one or two folks...it's someone new at least weekly.

As for your claim to not be abusive...well, just look at the last two

words in the paragraph. " Even you! " That says it all.

> Besides, any chicken rearing " tips " you had for me should've been sent

> privately to start with. This isn't a cicken or poultry group - its a

> dairy group.

Before talking about what type of group this is, you should have

looked at the thread history. It WAS about Nourishing Traditions,

until YOU changed it to " Organic?Pasture Standards " on 12/09, message

number 27477 then YOU changed it to " Pheasants " on 12/11, message

number 27353, then YOU changed it to " Chicken Raising " on 12/13,

message number 27568.

Bottom line, you appear to be constantly looking for a fight.

Sorry ...I've had my fill of her and the tongue biting was

getting painful.

Bob

[Guest guest]

I need for this debate to be ended....it is getting very inflammatory and

personal and it is also off-topic. In addition to that, there is no trimming

going on, so it is getting longer and longer. PLEASE remember to trim

your posts.

Thanks,

D.

moderator

>

> Actually I WAS invited to apply for CNG certification a couple of

> months ago. THATS why I WAS considering it.

>

> I do not LOOK for ways to argue with people. I stand up for myself

> when I'm being ridiculed or insulted. I in NO WAY was abusive or

> disrespectful towards anybody. Even you!

>

> However, EVERYTHING you just said in your last post was very

> disrespecftul, insulting and down right abusive. Other than thinking

> you were calling me stupid, I in no way insulted you or called you

> names! So who is really the " insecure, disrespectful,argumentative

> (and) abusive " one that is " full of (themselves) " " and a bully " . Be

> proud, oh " so proud " . " You should be ashamed of your self for the way

> you treat people here. " " Congratulations " , you just turned a

> disagreement into a street fight.

>

> You made assumptions about me and I was insulted. Therefore, I

> defended myself. End of story. Enough already, your assumptions were

> wrong and I'm not going to just roll-over for you to kick around

> more. Don't make this anymore nasty than you already have. Besides,

> any chicken rearing " tips " you had for me should've been sent

> privately to start with. This isn't a cicken or poultry group - its a

[Guest guest]

I really feel sorry for you but I still refuse to lower myself to

your level.

In RawDairy , " Charity " wrote:

>

> Actually I WAS invited to apply for CNG certification a couple of

> months ago. THATS why I WAS considering it.

>

> I do not LOOK for ways to argue with people. I stand up for myself

> when I'm being ridiculed or insulted. I in NO WAY was abusive or

> disrespectful towards anybody. Even you!

>

> However, EVERYTHING you just said in your last post was very

> disrespecftul, insulting and down right abusive. Other than

thinking

> you were calling me stupid, I in no way insulted you or called you

> names! So who is really the " insecure,

disrespectful,argumentative

> (and) abusive " one that is " full of (themselves) " " and a bully " .

Be

> proud, oh " so proud " . " You should be ashamed of your self for the

way

> you treat people here. " " Congratulations " , you just turned a

> disagreement into a street fight.

>

> You made assumptions about me and I was insulted. Therefore, I

> defended myself. End of story. Enough already, your assumptions

were

> wrong and I'm not going to just roll-over for you to kick around

> more. Don't make this anymore nasty than you already have.

Besides,

> any chicken rearing " tips " you had for me should've been sent

> privately to start with. This isn't a cicken or poultry group -

its a

> dairy group. I'm in here because I have the experience of working

on

> two dairy farms and am looking at having a micro-dairy myself. Not

to

> have to defend myself to you. My origional post was in response to

> somebody's question to me.

>

> " mamabice1 " <mamabice1@> wrote:

> >

> > I am not going to lower my self to your level. Congratulations.

I

> never thought that I would see someone be able to pull an argument

> out of nothing but you did it. You must be so proud. CNG is not a

> club and you weren't invited. You must be pretty full of yourself

to

> believe that I would remotely care if you are certified or not. I

> find you to be insecure, disrespectful,argumentative,abusive, and

a

> bully. I give no credence to people like you. You look for ways to

> argue with people. I don't need to put other people down to make

> myself look good and I don't make it a point to disrespect

anyone.

> You should be ashamed of your self for the way you treat people

here.

> Just because you don't like what someone has said does not give

you

> the right to shout them down and verbally abuse them.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > - In RawDairy , " Charity " <Charity@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Just because I no longer like Certified Naturally Grown, you

now

> > seem

> > > to think I'm stupid. Just because you can raise your animals

> > without

> > > caring about them and can sell off any sick ones at the drop

of a

> > > hat, does not mean that your method of farming is the best.

> > >

> > > I'm not new to chickens. I've raised them since I was a kid. I

> can

> > > remeber being chased down by a mean rooster at 4 years old and

> > > killing another mean rooster at 15. That is when we started

> > raising

> > > the chicks in the house for the first couple weeks, to keep

them

> > > friendly.

> > >

> > > This is certaintly not my first batch of chicks in the house

> > either.

> > > This is our third batch this year. While, I might reconsider

> where

> > I

> > > have the ducklings, goslings, pheasant chicks, poults and

keets;

> I

> > > like having the chicks in the house.

> > >

> > > I have a very nice brooder built for them. It actually takes

up

> > the

> > > whole dining room, not the kitchen. (We now eat in the second

> > living

> > > room which has become our dining room). It has plywood floors

and

> > > walls with a tarp on the bottom of it covered with newspaper

then

> > > straw. I'll be adding a net over top for the pheasants, if

> needed.

> > >

> > > I am well aware of the dust. The dust does not become a

problem

> > > unless you keep them in the there longer than 4 weeks. I only

> keep

> > > them in here 2-4 weeks, depending on the weather. A basement

is

> > > generally a cold, damp place and birds would not do well in

that

> > > environment.

> > >

> > > Keeping the birds in the house for 2 weeks during warm weather

> and

> > 4

> > > weeks during colder weather does nothing but help ensure their

> > > survival. After that time, they get moved out into a barn,

still

> > with

> > > brood heat if needed. I completely clean out the brooder in

> > between

> > > each batch and recyle the used straw into the pig barn.

> > >

> > > I have 3 very nice barns. However none of them are a chicken

coop

> > > because those are the most disgusting things in the world. Not

> > only

> > > would I not cook my food in one, I won't raise it in one

either.

> I

> > > won't even eat eggs out of one. Chickens deserve better than

that

> > > too.

> > >

> > > This winter, my bigger chickens and laying hens roam the pig

barn

> > at

> > > free will. They have their safe area too that I provide fresh

> > bedding

> > > in, just like the rest of the animals. They can even go in and

> > > outside on their own free will 24/7/365. There is no dust

> problem,

> > no

> > > ammonia problem either. After brooding in the house for 2-4

> weeks,

> > I

> > > put the chicks in with the laying hens. Since I raise heritage

> > > breeds, they seem to have a mothering instinct to help take

care

> > of

> > > the little ones.

> > >

> > > Once the little ones are 6-8 weeks old, and I can tell which

ones

> > the

> > > cockerals are, I take the cockerals out. The cockerals then

> either

> > go

> > > into another big barn in the cold weather or outside in

pasture

> > pens.

> > > I raise them until 3-4 months old since they are not

production

> > > strains that grow artifically fast. The pullets stay in the

first

> > > barn to eventually lay eggs.

> > >

> > > In the barns they have hay and straw, plus their food. Outside

> > they

> > > have their food, grass and bugs. I'll be raising meal worms

for

> > them

> > > starting next year (no not in the house) too.

> > >

> > > Once the layers molt they will get moved out as well. Fast

> molters

> > > will move into a portable chicken house with a rooster to lay

and

> > > hatch their own eggs, without an incubator. Slow molters

become

> > > chicken soup.

> > >

> > > Eventually my goal is to not have to buy day-old chicks and

have

> > > enough fast molting breeding hens to lay and hatch their own

eggs

> > > without the use of an incubator. The unhatched eggs will be

fed

> to

> > > the pigs (after boiling them). Once that happens, I won't have

> > > anything in the house to brood because momma will be doing it.

> > Except

> > > she'll do it without using up fossil fuels in the form of

> > electricity

> > > for the incubator or artifical heat for the brooder.

> > >

> > > I am also perfectly aware of the problems of raising

pheasants. I

> > > intern at a farm that raises pheasasnts to release for

hunters.

> > They

> > > give them proper enclosures and still have to put peepers

(thats

> > what

> > > those " little blinders " are called) on them to avoid

cannabilism.

> > I

> > > have been growing a fallow area of tall grasses specifically

for

> > the

> > > pheasants and will plant some corn stalks for them as well.

> > >

> > > We aren't buying " so many animals " . We are getting them a few

at

> a

> > > time. I have postponed getting sheep & goats because of

wanting

> to

> > > build the farm right. At this very moment we have 2 beef

cattle

> > (we

> > > just took a steer in for processing), 17 pigs (soon to be 15 +

> > lots

> > > of piglets) and about 150 chickens (soon to be 250). We also

want

> > 3

> > > milk cows. Come Feb 5 we will start getting up to 100 day-old

> > birds

> > > every 3-4 weeks for about 1000 birds total. We expect to sell

> 800

> > of

> > > the birds for meat, pets and breeding and keep 100 for eggs

and

> > > breeding. So where are all of these " so many animals " .

> > >

> > > If you are so concerned about " coccidiosis, salmonella and

> > > campylobacter just to name a few things " , then you vaccinate

YOUR

> > > animals for them because they either have it or they don't. It

> > > doesn't matter where you brood them for that. Nobody in this

> house

> > > has been sick, except heat stroke, for as long as I can

remember.

> > > Even my 13 year old daughter who has Asthma when she is at her

> > dad's

> > > house, is perfectly fine here and NEVER has needed her inhaler

> > here.

> > >

> > > I have many customers that appreciate my methods, my humane

> > treatment

> > > of the animals and my goals to eventually raise them in a

> > completely

> > > natural way (not just " all-natural " but actually in natural

> > > enviironments using natural farming practices such as

> biodynamic).

> > So

> > > why would I invest money in infrastructure that is not related

to

> > any

> > > of these goals? Because YOU say so. Whatever!

> > >

> > > " mamabice1 " <mamabice1@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I know that you are just getting into this so I hope that

you

> > re-

> > > > think brooding birds in your kitchen.

> > > > The first year we did chickens we had to brood in our

> > > > basement.That was the last time. I never saw so much dust!It

> was

> > > > everywhere! In that dust also happens to be chicken manure

> which

> > is

> > > > highly carcinogenic.

> > > > They also carry coccidiosis,salmonella and campylobacter

just

> > to

> > > > name a few things. All of these birds carry these things in

the

> > > > manure.Ducks and geese are really nasty birds to raise. Yes,

we

> > > > raise all of these birds but we do it in a brooder.

> > > > I am not bashing you, I am trying to educate you. You

> wouldn't

> > > > cook your food in a chicen coop would you?

> > > > I know that money is tight for you. It is for us too.We

> waited

> > > > until the following year to build a small brooder off of the

> > side

> > > of

> > > > our barn with tax return money.

> > > > Maybe you might want to hold off with buying so many

animals

> > and

> > > > take care of this.

> > > > Also, Pheasants aren't raised like chickens. They need

alot

> of

> > > > room. They also need cover such as long grass and tree

branches

> > so

> > > > that they can hide from each other. They also need little

> > blinders

> > > > put on them because they are VERY cannilbalistic.

> > > > These are the worst birds we ever raised and we did it

once.

> > > > I can't tell you what to do but getting sick over this

isn't

> > worth

> > > > it.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You know what?......I think that people have so many different problems in life and that we can't always know what these problems have been. I haven't been following this thread (just picked up on it now). So, forgive me if I seem off base. I think what we need to try and do...despite the appearances sometimes...is to try and realize that what people seem to "attack" you for, is not really personal at all..but just a reflection of what they have gone through. I think we have to step back and wait a bit before we respond to messages which seem to be a result of irritation, anger or fear. I am a pretty sensitive person so I can't feel hurt easily but I have learned to develope a thicker skin (not always of course) but...I think I'm beginning to realize that people "attack" or argue with others for non personal reasons.Once we step back from the situation I think we can feel less persoanlly threatened by harsh words. Like I say, I haven't read the previous posts so I

really don't know what has occurred but the solution is pretty general to most of these kind of circumstances I wish I wasn't in a rush to make dinner because I feel I may not be making much sense. I just don't like to see people at odds with each other. Margiemamabice1 wrote: I really feel sorry for you but I still refuse to lower myself to your level.In RawDairy , "Charity " wrote:>> Actually I WAS invited to apply for CNG certification a couple of > months ago. THATS why I WAS considering it. > > I do not LOOK for ways to argue with people. I stand up for myself > when I'm being ridiculed or insulted. I in NO WAY was abusive or > disrespectful towards anybody. Even you! > > However, EVERYTHING you just said in your last post was very > disrespecftul, insulting and down right abusive. Other than thinking > you were calling me stupid, I in no way insulted you or called you > names! So who is really the "insecure, disrespectful,argumentative > (and) abusive" one that is "full of (themselves)" "and a bully". Be > proud, oh "so proud". "You should be ashamed of your self for the way > you treat people

here." "Congratulations", you just turned a > disagreement into a street fight. > > You made assumptions about me and I was insulted. Therefore, I > defended myself. End of story. Enough already, your assumptions were > wrong and I'm not going to just roll-over for you to kick around > more. Don't make this anymore nasty than you already have. Besides, > any chicken rearing "tips" you had for me should've been sent > privately to start with. This isn't a cicken or poultry group - its a > dairy group. I'm in here because I have the experience of working on > two dairy farms and am looking at having a micro-dairy myself. Not to > have to defend myself to you. My origional post was in response to > somebody's question to me. > > "mamabice1" <mamabice1@> wrote:> >> > I am not going to lower my self to your level. Congratulations.

I > never thought that I would see someone be able to pull an argument > out of nothing but you did it. You must be so proud. CNG is not a > club and you weren't invited. You must be pretty full of yourself to > believe that I would remotely care if you are certified or not. I > find you to be insecure, disrespectful,argumentative,abusive, and a > bully. I give no credence to people like you. You look for ways to > argue with people. I don't need to put other people down to make > myself look good and I don't make it a point to disrespect anyone. > You should be ashamed of your self for the way you treat people here. > Just because you don't like what someone has said does not give you > the right to shout them down and verbally abuse them.> > > > > > > > > > > > - In RawDairy , "Charity " <Charity@> wrote:> > >> > > Just because I no longer like Certified Naturally Grown, you now > > seem > > > to think I'm stupid. Just because you can raise your animals > > without > > > caring about them and can sell off any sick ones at the drop of a > > > hat, does not mean that your method of farming is the best.> > > > > > I'm not new to chickens. I've raised them since I was a kid. I > can > > > remeber being chased down by a mean rooster at 4 years old and > > > killing another mean rooster at 15. That is when we started > > raising > > > the chicks in the house for the first couple weeks, to keep them > > > friendly. > > > > > > This is certaintly not my

first batch of chicks in the house > > either. > > > This is our third batch this year. While, I might reconsider > where > > I > > > have the ducklings, goslings, pheasant chicks, poults and keets; > I > > > like having the chicks in the house. > > > > > > I have a very nice brooder built for them. It actually takes up > > the > > > whole dining room, not the kitchen. (We now eat in the second > > living > > > room which has become our dining room). It has plywood floors and > > > walls with a tarp on the bottom of it covered with newspaper then > > > straw. I'll be adding a net over top for the pheasants, if > needed. > > > > > > I am well aware of the dust. The dust does not become a problem > > > unless you keep them in the there longer

than 4 weeks. I only > keep > > > them in here 2-4 weeks, depending on the weather. A basement is > > > generally a cold, damp place and birds would not do well in that > > > environment. > > > > > > Keeping the birds in the house for 2 weeks during warm weather > and > > 4 > > > weeks during colder weather does nothing but help ensure their > > > survival. After that time, they get moved out into a barn, still > > with > > > brood heat if needed. I completely clean out the brooder in > > between > > > each batch and recyle the used straw into the pig barn. > > > > > > I have 3 very nice barns. However none of them are a chicken coop > > > because those are the most disgusting things in the world. Not > > only > > > would I not cook my

food in one, I won't raise it in one either. > I > > > won't even eat eggs out of one. Chickens deserve better than that > > > too. > > > > > > This winter, my bigger chickens and laying hens roam the pig barn > > at > > > free will. They have their safe area too that I provide fresh > > bedding > > > in, just like the rest of the animals. They can even go in and > > > outside on their own free will 24/7/365. There is no dust > problem, > > no > > > ammonia problem either. After brooding in the house for 2-4 > weeks, > > I > > > put the chicks in with the laying hens. Since I raise heritage > > > breeds, they seem to have a mothering instinct to help take care > > of > > > the little ones. > > > > > > Once the little ones

are 6-8 weeks old, and I can tell which ones > > the > > > cockerals are, I take the cockerals out. The cockerals then > either > > go > > > into another big barn in the cold weather or outside in pasture > > pens. > > > I raise them until 3-4 months old since they are not production > > > strains that grow artifically fast. The pullets stay in the first > > > barn to eventually lay eggs. > > > > > > In the barns they have hay and straw, plus their food. Outside > > they > > > have their food, grass and bugs. I'll be raising meal worms for > > them > > > starting next year (no not in the house) too. > > > > > > Once the layers molt they will get moved out as well. Fast > molters > > > will move into a portable chicken house with a

rooster to lay and > > > hatch their own eggs, without an incubator. Slow molters become > > > chicken soup. > > > > > > Eventually my goal is to not have to buy day-old chicks and have > > > enough fast molting breeding hens to lay and hatch their own eggs > > > without the use of an incubator. The unhatched eggs will be fed > to > > > the pigs (after boiling them). Once that happens, I won't have > > > anything in the house to brood because momma will be doing it. > > Except > > > she'll do it without using up fossil fuels in the form of > > electricity > > > for the incubator or artifical heat for the brooder. > > > > > > I am also perfectly aware of the problems of raising pheasants. I > > > intern at a farm that raises pheasasnts to release for

hunters. > > They > > > give them proper enclosures and still have to put peepers (thats > > what > > > those "little blinders" are called) on them to avoid cannabilism. > > I > > > have been growing a fallow area of tall grasses specifically for > > the > > > pheasants and will plant some corn stalks for them as well. > > > > > > We aren't buying "so many animals". We are getting them a few at > a > > > time. I have postponed getting sheep & goats because of wanting > to > > > build the farm right. At this very moment we have 2 beef cattle > > (we > > > just took a steer in for processing), 17 pigs (soon to be 15 + > > lots > > > of piglets) and about 150 chickens (soon to be 250). We also want > > 3 > > > milk

cows. Come Feb 5 we will start getting up to 100 day-old > > birds > > > every 3-4 weeks for about 1000 birds total. We expect to sell > 800 > > of > > > the birds for meat, pets and breeding and keep 100 for eggs and > > > breeding. So where are all of these "so many animals". > > > > > > If you are so concerned about "coccidiosis, salmonella and > > > campylobacter just to name a few things", then you vaccinate YOUR > > > animals for them because they either have it or they don't. It > > > doesn't matter where you brood them for that. Nobody in this > house > > > has been sick, except heat stroke, for as long as I can remember. > > > Even my 13 year old daughter who has Asthma when she is at her > > dad's > > > house, is perfectly fine here and NEVER has needed her inhaler

> > here. > > > > > > I have many customers that appreciate my methods, my humane > > treatment > > > of the animals and my goals to eventually raise them in a > > completely > > > natural way (not just "all-natural" but actually in natural > > > enviironments using natural farming practices such as > biodynamic). > > So > > > why would I invest money in infrastructure that is not related to > > any > > > of these goals? Because YOU say so. Whatever!> > > > > > "mamabice1" <mamabice1@> wrote:> > > >> > > > I know that you are just getting into this so I hope that you > > re-> > > > think brooding birds in your kitchen.> > > > The first year we did chickens we had to brood in our > > > > basement.That

was the last time. I never saw so much dust!It > was > > > > everywhere! In that dust also happens to be chicken manure > which > > is > > > > highly carcinogenic.> > > > They also carry coccidiosis,salmonella and campylobacter just > > to > > > > name a few things. All of these birds carry these things in the > > > > manure.Ducks and geese are really nasty birds to raise. Yes, we > > > > raise all of these birds but we do it in a brooder.> > > > I am not bashing you, I am trying to educate you. You > wouldn't > > > > cook your food in a chicen coop would you?> > > > I know that money is tight for you. It is for us too.We > waited > > > > until the following year to build a small brooder off of the > > side > > > of > >

> > our barn with tax return money.> > > > Maybe you might want to hold off with buying so many animals > > and > > > > take care of this.> > > > Also, Pheasants aren't raised like chickens. They need alot > of > > > > room. They also need cover such as long grass and tree branches > > so > > > > that they can hide from each other. They also need little > > blinders > > > > put on them because they are VERY cannilbalistic.> > > > These are the worst birds we ever raised and we did it once.> > > > I can't tell you what to do but getting sick over this isn't > > worth > > > > it.> > > > > > >> >> __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

AMEN to that Bob. That is exactly what I was saying and judging by

the mail that I have recieved off of the list, you and I aren't the

only ones who feel this way either.

She IS always looking for a fight and then she blames it on the

other person everytime.

If she does this to complete strangers it really makes you

wonder...

In RawDairy , " Bob Hayles " wrote:

>

>

>

> > I do not LOOK for ways to argue with people. I stand up for

myself

> > when I'm being ridiculed or insulted. I in NO WAY was abusive or

> > disrespectful towards anybody. Even you!

>

>

> You might look at the fact that you fight with EVERYONE. Were it

just

> one person that always gave you a hard time, perhaps your claim

that

> you do not look for ways to argue with people would be beliveable,

but

> it's not one or two folks...it's someone new at least weekly.

>

> As for your claim to not be abusive...well, just look at the last

two

> words in the paragraph. " Even you! " That says it all.

>

>

> > Besides, any chicken rearing " tips " you had for me should've

been sent

> > privately to start with. This isn't a cicken or poultry group -

its a

> > dairy group.

>

>

> Before talking about what type of group this is, you should have

> looked at the thread history. It WAS about Nourishing Traditions,

> until YOU changed it to " Organic?Pasture Standards " on 12/09,

message

> number 27477 then YOU changed it to " Pheasants " on 12/11, message

> number 27353, then YOU changed it to " Chicken Raising " on 12/13,

> message number 27568.

>

> Bottom line, you appear to be constantly looking for a fight.

>

> Sorry ...I've had my fill of her and the tongue biting was

> getting painful.

>

> Bob

>

[Guest guest]

As much as I love a lively discussion we have been asked to stop and

perhaps we should before gets out her ruler and raps our knuckles.

Belinda

>

> AMEN to that Bob. That is exactly what I was saying and judging by

> the mail that I have recieved off of the list, you and I aren't the

> only ones who feel this way either.

> She IS always looking for a fight and then she blames it on the

> other person everytime.

> If she does this to complete strangers it really makes you

> wonder...

>