Re: Some questions........

[Guest guest]

<I know a lot of people that don't even worm their goats and have not

used ANYTHING on their herd for years with no problems developing. >

Please take this with a grain of salt. (Don't believe everything people

say.) Most people have to worm at some time. Most people who don't-

should- but they won't. And many have animals that are only borderline

healthy.

I know of one breeder who only de-worms after kidding and after many

years her Alpine herd is both rugged and hardy. But she lets nature take

it's course if animals get sick. We bought our first goats from her and

they were strong and healthy goats. I'm too soft for that but I do draw

a line at constantly pumping the animals full of stuff.

Most medications have withdrawl periods for them for meat and milk. You

can go to fiascofarm.com and look at Molly's information.

*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

@

" Laudo Deum " Farm

kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

families with young children.

(And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

[Guest guest]

I know some folks who never use any chemicals on their animals, they

are organic. I call it organic by neglect. We don't worm, give shots,

etc as a habit, just in emergencies.

Have to agree with taking the " we don't use anything " with a grain of

salt tho. Been to enough places and watched folks do exactly what they

tell you not to do.

Don't feed on the ground. Then why are you tossing sweet feed on the

ground?

Don't mess with the babies heads. Then why are you playing butting

games with them?

Best thing to do is watch what they do rather than listening to what

they say.

Belinda

>

>

> <I know a lot of people that don't even worm their goats and have not

> used ANYTHING on their herd for years with no problems developing. >

>

> Please take this with a grain of salt. (Don't believe everything people

> say.) Most people have to worm at some time. Most people who don't-

> should- but they won't. And many have animals that are only borderline

> healthy.

> I know of one breeder who only de-worms after kidding and after many

> years her Alpine herd is both rugged and hardy. But she lets nature

take

> it's course if animals get sick. We bought our first goats from her and

> they were strong and healthy goats. I'm too soft for that but I do draw

> a line at constantly pumping the animals full of stuff.

>

> Most medications have withdrawl periods for them for meat and milk. You

> can go to fiascofarm.com and look at Molly's information.

>

> *~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

> @

[Guest guest]

We've never wormed or vaccinated our cows[they're healthy]. Our milk goats do

get wormed about 2 weeks before kidding. For many of them that's all that's

neccessary for the year.

Humbled in Amelia

Robie

> --- Some questions........

>

> Date: Tue, January 02, 2007 12:02 pm

> To: homedairygoats , RawDairy

>

> ok, so I really love the idea of raising our goats naturally/organic. I don't

want any " stuff " in their milk that we willbe using. I know a lot of people

that don't even worm their goats and have not used ANYTHING on their herd for

years with no problems developing.

>

> I just wonder that if we do use treatments on the goats, for whatever, doesnt

that stuff come out in the milk? Like vaccines and stuff? I don't want all that

in the milk we are using.

>

> a

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Goats evolved in desert and in high, dry alpine regions. Neither

one allowed parasites to be of any consequence so goats never had the

pressure to be resistant to parasites. And, a 150 pound goat has the

surface area in their intestinal tract comparable to about a 500 pound

cow. That's why you see goats die, but cattle rarely do, of parasite

overload.

You have got to understand that parasite pressure is going to be

very dependent upon your managment style and your geographic region.

A person in the high desert of Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, for example

won't have the parasite problems we have here in East Tennessee.

I don't deworm my goats because I like using chemicals. I deworm them

because I HATE having deadstock! And, a chemical is a chemical is a

chemical, whether nature made it or man made it. I know of plenty of

pretty poisons that nature makes. If it's toxic enough to kill a

parasite, it's going to have a toxic effect upon others too.

Do whatever you want to do with what you got. Keep good notes.

Learn how to do fecals and to judge the color of the inside of the

lower eyelid. When egg counts go above a certain point you either

effectively deworm or they die. If you can figure out how to not ever

use chemicals? Good for you! Write a book and share it with the rest

of those in your geographic region raising goats.

I have tried herbal dewormers, DME, pasture rotation, and many

other 'natural' methods. I can keep my goats up 24/7365 and feed them

hay and have little to no parasite problems. I can put them on 100%

browse with zero grass to graze, if I had about a million dollars bo

buy the land needed, and again, zero to little parasite pressure. Or

I can graze them on the land I have, on grass and have parasite

pressures.

Nothing worked alone or in combination well enough to keep my

goats from ending up dead. So, I do what I have to do to keep my

goats alive. If I lived in Arizona or some other very hot, very dry

place, I wouldn't need to worry and they would be fine without much of

any deworming. If I lived where it stays below freezing both day and

night for more than sixty days (thank you, I don't!, but if I did!)

then again, I would not have such parasite pressures. But, here in

the hot, humid south with them grazing on grass??? They are at high

risk.

Each year beginning about May, I can almost set my clock with the

calls starting- 'my goat's been snake bit', 'my goat's been bee

stung', 'my goat is down foaming at the mouth', 'my goat just keeled

over and died' and so many, so very many will relate how they used DME

and herbal dewormers and so forth and so on. They never realize that

their goat died from parasite overload which caused congestive heart

failure and the resulting symptoms of edema. Yep, after about fifteen

years of hearing it??? I am a bit short of patience and sometimes not

very nice in telling them they ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

[Guest guest]

Please, when we are discussing this type of issue, it's really

helpful to know where you live, the management you use, etc...

For example a herd of goats in high desert of Arizona on alfalfa hay

and roaming thousands of acres of wild browse won't have any parasite

issues! Nor will a herd in Green Bay, Wisconsin, where the ground

stays frozen six months a year. Or a herd on dry lot with only hay

and cut greenery brought to them to eat. While here in the sunny,

warm, moist south??? We are eat up with parasites and if a goat eats

any grass you got big time parasite pressures!

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

>

> We've never wormed or vaccinated our cows[they're healthy]. Our

milk goats do get wormed about 2 weeks before kidding. For many of

them that's all that's neccessary for the year.

>

> Humbled in Amelia

> Robie

>

> > --- Some questions........

> >

> > Date: Tue, January 02, 2007 12:02 pm

> > To: homedairygoats , RawDairy

> >

> > ok, so I really love the idea of raising our goats

naturally/organic. I don't want any " stuff " in their milk that we

willbe using. I know a lot of people that don't even worm their

goats and have not used ANYTHING on their herd for years with no

problems developing.

> >

> > I just wonder that if we do use treatments on the goats, for

whatever, doesnt that stuff come out in the milk? Like vaccines and

stuff? I don't want all that in the milk we are using.

> >

> > a

> >

> >

> > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

> >

> > Archive search: http://onibasu.com

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It just seems to me that if I had to worm every 30 days I'd not get

much pleasure out of my goats as I wouldn't want to be drinking the

milk or eating the meat. Here in the western part of East Tennessee I

use a chemical about once a year and am working towards eliminating

even that.

I would guess the difference is the amount of space we have for our

animals. There is no walking in hock deep mud and manure around here.

The cows are on pasture that is over my ankles in most places and this

is January! We sold some land a while back and went from 100 goats to

20 some odd. Feedlot conditions are not healthy for animals, just as

big city considions aren't healthy for humans.

Just my opinion,

Belinda

>

> Goats evolved in desert and in high, dry alpine regions. Neither

> one allowed parasites to be of any consequence so goats never had the

> pressure to be resistant to parasites. And, a 150 pound goat has the

> surface area in their intestinal tract comparable to about a 500 pound

> cow. That's why you see goats die, but cattle rarely do, of parasite

> overload.

> You have got to understand that parasite pressure is going to be

> very dependent upon your managment style and your geographic region.

> A person in the high desert of Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, for example

> won't have the parasite problems we have here in East Tennessee.

> I don't deworm my goats because I like using chemicals. I deworm them

> because I HATE having deadstock! And, a chemical is a chemical is a

> chemical, whether nature made it or man made it. I know of plenty of

> pretty poisons that nature makes. If it's toxic enough to kill a

> parasite, it's going to have a toxic effect upon others too.

> Do whatever you want to do with what you got. Keep good notes.

> Learn how to do fecals and to judge the color of the inside of the

> lower eyelid. When egg counts go above a certain point you either

> effectively deworm or they die. If you can figure out how to not ever

> use chemicals? Good for you! Write a book and share it with the rest

> of those in your geographic region raising goats.

> I have tried herbal dewormers, DME, pasture rotation, and many

> other 'natural' methods. I can keep my goats up 24/7365 and feed them

> hay and have little to no parasite problems. I can put them on 100%

> browse with zero grass to graze, if I had about a million dollars bo

> buy the land needed, and again, zero to little parasite pressure. Or

> I can graze them on the land I have, on grass and have parasite

> pressures.

> Nothing worked alone or in combination well enough to keep my

> goats from ending up dead. So, I do what I have to do to keep my

> goats alive. If I lived in Arizona or some other very hot, very dry

> place, I wouldn't need to worry and they would be fine without much of

> any deworming. If I lived where it stays below freezing both day and

> night for more than sixty days (thank you, I don't!, but if I did!)

> then again, I would not have such parasite pressures. But, here in

> the hot, humid south with them grazing on grass??? They are at high

> risk.

> Each year beginning about May, I can almost set my clock with the

> calls starting- 'my goat's been snake bit', 'my goat's been bee

> stung', 'my goat is down foaming at the mouth', 'my goat just keeled

> over and died' and so many, so very many will relate how they used DME

> and herbal dewormers and so forth and so on. They never realize that

> their goat died from parasite overload which caused congestive heart

> failure and the resulting symptoms of edema. Yep, after about fifteen

> years of hearing it??? I am a bit short of patience and sometimes not

> very nice in telling them they ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.

> Donna

> Safehaven Nubians

> Dandridge, TN

>