Re: Grain Feeding cattle

[Guest guest]

Let's see now. If your half a coffee can is 2 pounds then a whole can

would be 4 pounds so two cans would be 8 pounds. How'd you end up with

20 pounds? Sheesh that's 1/2 a bag of feed for one cow? The can I'm

looking at now says 2.5 pounds so twice that would be 5 pounds per day

for a milking cow. Do the math darlin.

Belinda

>

> What are you calling " grain feeding " ? We give some grain now and then

> to all the animals just to keep them coming to the bucket. While

> milking, the girls get enough to keep them still. How much grain are

> we talking about? Is a couple of coffee cans going to lead to ketosis?

>

> Belinda

>

[Guest guest]

NO - A feed scoop is only half of a coffee can. And then I only feed

have a a scoop. So I am feeding 1/4 of a typical coffee can per

animal and not 2 whole coffee cans. I would have to feed 4-5 feed

scoops to feed as much as you.

Your coffee can says 2.5 lbs FOR COFFEE. Everything (mixed grain,

corn, beans, oats) has different weights. Think of a pound of

feathers vs a pound of bricks. How much of a difference is there in

their volume? You need to weigh your coffee can empty and then weigh

it full, subtract the difference and then you will know how much you

are feeding. Most coffee cans are farely large.

As for your " that's half a bag of feed " , no it's not. 20 lbs would be

2/5 of a 50 Lb bag which is what I'm assuming you buy at the local

store, or 1/5 of mine. Just like " coffee can " is not a good measuring

tool, neither is the term " bag of feed " . I have my own mix made at

the feed mill. When you buy directly from the feed mill, you get 100

lb bags and pay the same price for 100 lbs as those 50 lb pre-mixed

(and generally medicated) convienance bags.

I can do math very well and I can even read & understand compound

sentences. Next time, don't be rude to someone trying to help you, or

you will cease having people wanting to help you. DARLIN.

" labelleacres " wrote:

Let's see now. If your half a coffee can is 2 pounds then a whole can

would be 4 pounds so two cans would be 8 pounds. How'd you end up with

20 pounds? Sheesh that's 1/2 a bag of feed for one cow? The can I'm

looking at now says 2.5 pounds so twice that would be 5 pounds per day

for a milking cow. Do the math darlin.

Belinda

" Charity " <Charity@> wrote:

I'm not sure if a couple of coffee cans would lead to ketosis but,

that

seems like way too much if it is per cow, unless you are finishing

them

for market. Two coffee cans should be almost 20 lbs of grain

(depending

on the size of the can of course but, I'm using the average store

bought size). I have always heard " a little " refer to 5-10 Lbs a day

for adult cattle. The two spring calves I have right now get from " a

handful " to 2 lbs a day. It is 90% fed from my hands to keep them

friendly. Even 2 Lbs a day is only half of a feed scoop and that is

only half of a typical coffee can.

" labelleacres " <bilherbs@> wrote:

What are you calling " grain feeding " ? We give some grain now and then

to all the animals just to keep them coming to the bucket. While

milking, the girls get enough to keep them still. How much grain are

we talking about? Is a couple of coffee cans going to lead to ketosis?

Belinda

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Now about feeding 20#'s of grain a day, our fat cattle are about up to that

when they reach market weightnd that is about 1300#'s! and that is alot! you

have to be careful with the grain and not intro it to fast or it throws off

their systems. and yes, we agree that grass fed is best but grain fed is what

the market is demanding. all the info is from my farmer hubby!

> ro

>

Ro,

Welcome to the year 2006. The new market is demanding Grass Fed Meat.

It'll take you a little bit more work, of course to reach this market.

Should you decide, down the road, to follow your conscience, since

you did admit that grass fed is better (which means more healthy for

animal and human), don't blow off grass-fed so quickly. Some day,

your farm, like many others, may come to depend on those of us in the

market (and we're increasing in numbers and demand daily) who ONLY

want grass-fed products - dairy and meat. Are you familiar with

Weston A. Price? www.westonaprice.org, www.eatwild.com or

http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm? If not, they offer

great information about raising/reaching the grass-fed market.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

I am constantly overwhelmed and amazed how rude people can be on this site. I just remind myself that it is a small percentage of everyone that posts here.I would love to grass feed, but it is not possible. Thankfully I only produce milk for myself. I agree that grass fed is the way to go too, but the market and conditions are not always conducive to this. Keep plugging away raising those cows and you might just find yourselves in a completely different situation in a few yrs. Educate yourselves, I admire that in producers, even if they can't implement the info at that moment. Heck it might even rain here and I could plant my pastures lol.Right now we are looking at the seventh hay crop to fail.*Sigh*

[Guest guest]

Seems like you got yourself a little worked up. Sorry if your

original writing was unclear to me, and I didn't read it as you were

THAT familiar. It's nearly impossible to find good well-raised

chicken in New England so too bad we're don't live in closer proximity

to you. Hope you had a nice cup of tea and calmed down a little

bit.....

Sharon

> sharon,

> excuse me for sounding irritated but if you would have read the whole post IN

the context it was written, i did say THE market but meant OUR market demands

and yes, i am in 2006! We know the " NEW " market is demanding grass fed but

most of our customers aren't. yes we educate and tell people but most like the

taste of the corn fed beef. Most people don't like the concept of low and

slow. they want it now. We know ALL the benefits of what grass-fed is and

does AND we have heard all the best speak on it from Jerry Brunetti to

Salatin to Francis Thicke to Sally Fallon to Doug Gunnick and the Weston A

Price foundation and beyond!!!!!! your preachin' to the choir.

[Guest guest]

Charity,

In your original post you wrote:

Even 2 Lbs a day is only half of a feed scoop and that is

> only half of a typical coffee can.

Which to me reads

2 pounds = 1/2 scoop = 1/2 coffee can

Which to me means that one coffee can holds 4 pounds of feed. As:

2 x 1/2 = 1 can and 2 x 2 = 4 pounds So you see if you double both

you end up with 4 pounds per can.

Can you see where I got the idea that 2 coffee cans would be 8 pounds,

not 20?

Lucky for me the feed mill will bag mine in 50 pound bags. I don't

think I'd be able to handle the 100 pound bags any more.

Anyhow, the question was just to find out what folks are thinking

grain feeding is. It is obvious to me that everyone has a different

idea. Some feel that a handful is bad stuff and others figure 10-20

pounds a day is OK.

Belinda

>

> What are you calling " grain feeding " ? We give some grain now and then

> to all the animals just to keep them coming to the bucket. While

> milking, the girls get enough to keep them still. How much grain are

> we talking about? Is a couple of coffee cans going to lead to ketosis?

>

> Belinda

>

[Guest guest]

THank you for sticking to your guns. I too am in the delima of

knowing where the market is going and knowing what MY customers want.

We can raise animals however we want, but if our customers aren'[t

yet willing to buy it then we go bankrupt. Finding " the right "

customers is NOT as easy as it sounds when you already have farm

chores & current customers that you need to keep happy. I give a

little bit of grain now, as a treat & to keep them friendly. One of

these bull calves will stay that way and the other will be

for " market " . They will be raised the same -- mostly forages with

treats added -- until 60-90 days before processing for the one. Then

we will up his grain to closer to 20 lbs a day to give him a short

finishing period. This still leaves all the good benefits of higher

Omega-3, lower Omega-6 and higher CLA BUT it adds the marbling that

MY customers demand. It's MY compromise. And, I'm not sorry for it. I

have too many people to make happy. Now, if somebody wants to pay me

in advance to custom raise their beef for them -- as they dictate --

I'm open to offers!

> >

> >

> > Now about feeding 20#'s of grain a day, our fat cattle are

about up to that when they reach market weightnd that is about

1300#'s! and that is alot! you have to be careful with the grain and

not intro it to fast or it throws off their systems. and yes, we

agree that grass fed is best but grain fed is what the market is

demanding. all the info is from my farmer hubby!

> > ro

> >

> Ro,

> Welcome to the year 2006. The new market is demanding Grass Fed

Meat.

> It'll take you a little bit more work, of course to reach this

market.

> Should you decide, down the road, to follow your conscience, since

> you did admit that grass fed is better (which means more healthy

for

> animal and human), don't blow off grass-fed so quickly. Some day,

> your farm, like many others, may come to depend on those of us in

the

> market (and we're increasing in numbers and demand daily) who ONLY

> want grass-fed products - dairy and meat. Are you familiar with

> Weston A. Price? www.westonaprice.org, www.eatwild.com or

> http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm? If not, they offer

> great information about raising/reaching the grass-fed market.

> Sharon

[Guest guest]

I didn't see anybody that though a handful was bad stuff. I also didn't

see any posts that thought 20 lbs a day was good UNLESS they were

market (beef not dairy) animals. Where did you read that?

>

> Charity,

>

> Lucky for me the feed mill will bag mine in 50 pound bags. I don't

> think I'd be able to handle the 100 pound bags any more.

>

> Anyhow, the question was just to find out what folks are thinking

> grain feeding is. It is obvious to me that everyone has a different

> idea. Some feel that a handful is bad stuff and others figure 10-20

> pounds a day is OK.

>

> Belinda

[Guest guest]

sorry for the long thread. working out the bugs on how to trim them.

our jerseys get about 2#s of corn a day. 1. to get them to the barn, it their daily "piece of candy" and 2. for energy this time of year. our hay probably isn't where it should be. Now before you go slamming us for not testing etc...all our ground is rented and we haven't and we aren't going to spend the $$ to do so because, with my dad-in-law retiring in the next few years, we aren't sure what we are going to do or where we will end up! we live in one of the 23 illegal states.

Now about feeding 20#'s of grain a day, our fat cattle are about up to that when they reach market weightnd that is about 1300#'s! and that is alot! you have to be careful with the grain and not intro it to fast or it throws off their systems. and yes, we agree that grass fed is best but grain fed is what the market is demanding. all the info is from my farmer hubby!

ro

Grain Feeding cattle

I'm not sure if a couple of coffee cans would lead to ketosis but, that seems like way too much if it is per cow, unless you are finishing them for market. Two coffee cans should be almost 20 lbs of grain (depending on the size of the can of course but, I'm using the average store bought size). I have always heard "a little" refer to 5-10 Lbs a day for adult cattle. The two spring calves I have right now get from "a handful" to 2 lbs a day. It is 90% fed from my hands to keep them friendly. Even 2 Lbs a day is only half of a feed scoop and that is only half of a typical coffee can. "labelleacres" wrote:What are you calling "grain feeding"? We give some grain now and thento all the animals just to keep them coming to the bucket. Whilemilking, the girls get enough to keep them still. How much grain arewe talking about? Is a couple of coffee cans going to lead to ketosis?Belinda

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.0/525 - Release Date: 11/9/2006

[Guest guest]

Charity,

All I know as a consumer is that after nearly three years of driving

hundreds of miles to find grass-fed meat products, we're finally

seeing more farms within a 100-mile range who are raising those

products. It's taken a lot of effort on our part, finding the right

lists (Local Harvest, for example), talking to people in feed stores

and asking if they know who the grass-fed farmers are (they have all

willingly helped us find people), and just keeping our eyes open. I'm

not thrilled with paying $2.75 a pound for our Thanksgiving turkey,

but I'm thankful there are farmers here in New England raising turkeys

naturally, and for those in my family who snicker while eating their

..59/lb turkey? We each make our own choices. Paying " extra "

(actually, paying what a product is worth, hopefully) is as important

to me as tithing. It's about Life.

I'm thrilled to see CSA's growing by leaps and bounds. Here in New

England, there are at least a dozen new ones within a 50-miles radius

of our home, who are not only offering the usual vegetables, but also

taking pre-orders on chickens, beef, pork, etc. Pre-ordering does

seem to be working for some farmers. I'm in New England, but I have a

farmer friend in Wisconsin who will be pasturing a hog for us next

year. It'll be worth the gas money for me to drive there and pick it

up.

It's interesting to see the number of universities across the country

who are operating their own " natural-foods " grass-raised meats on

farms that are basically a " front " for their studies. My hope is

they're doing this to develop educational marketing programs for small

farmers.

I also see hope in the number of people discovering the Weston A.

Price way of eating....in my little world, it seems most people find

grass-fed products through that organization or through attending

monthly meetings and talking to others. All I can do as a consumer is

keep buying. About 90% of our food now comes from local farms - all

organic, all grass-fed and I can't wait for the day that people across

the country can have that same opportunity, IF ONLY the gov't would

cooperate. For us, eating this way instead of factory-produced

foods is essential. It's made a great deal of difference for my

Autistic son. My hope is that for the future of my children, who

won't have to grow up as my husband and I did, on canned, fast,

" convenient " frozen foods, is they'll have better health.

As far as the market goes, the more people who get a diagnosis of

heart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, arthritis,

cancer, or any number of others, will drive up market demand.

Grass-fed meat and milk don't seem to be high-demand items unless

there's a DX that wakens one up to the shortness of this life, eh?

Some of my farmers find that leaving cards/brochure with chiropractors

is a good way to find customers. It's interesting to look at the

California market and see demand for grass-fed products coming through

chefs - one can only hope THAT isn't a short-lived concept because if

it works, that concept can spread across the country. Of course, the

downside is there may not be enough grass-fed product to meet that

demand, and what there is will go to them, rather than the small

consumer like me.

For us, it was an IBS husband and an Autistic son, as well as a MIL

and my mother with early-onset Azlheimer's that made us stop to ask

what was going on and going wrong - stopping to get a big picture view

of life, and for us, it came down to the quality (or lack thereof) of

food on our table.

For you and others who are trying to do the right thing, please keep

trying. And I don't say that without an understanding of the

difficulties. But we need you. And there are plenty others out there

who probably don't know yet how much they also need you, but they'll

come. I also think the responsibility for promoting your products

belongs to your customers. At least, that's the way my husband and I

feel about our farmers. We do our best to pass along their names and

phone numbers, several times finding we did such a good job, there

wasn't milk/poultry left for us. Oh, well, there's always a next

time. And we learned through that to put in a standing order.

Best,

Sharon

>

> THank you for sticking to your guns. I too am in the delima of

> knowing where the market is going and knowing what MY customers want.

> We can raise animals however we want, but if our customers aren'[t

> yet willing to buy it then we go bankrupt. Finding " the right "

> customers is NOT as easy as it sounds when you already have farm

> chores & current customers that you need to keep happy. I give a

> little bit of grain now, as a treat & to keep them friendly. One of

> these bull calves will stay that way and the other will be

> for " market " . They will be raised the same -- mostly forages with

> treats added -- until 60-90 days before processing for the one. Then

> we will up his grain to closer to 20 lbs a day to give him a short

> finishing period. This still leaves all the good benefits of higher

> Omega-3, lower Omega-6 and higher CLA BUT it adds the marbling that

> MY customers demand. It's MY compromise. And, I'm not sorry for it. I

> have too many people to make happy. Now, if somebody wants to pay me

> in advance to custom raise their beef for them -- as they dictate --

> I'm open to offers!

>

[Guest guest]

Charity,

Take a look at post 27070 about the handful.

If a person is feeding 20 pounds a day for " finishing " they they must

think it is OK. We do not finish our meat animals (goats, beef, hogs,

chickens...) and are lucky enough to have more customers than meat.

Please note, I did not say that the 20 pounds a day was a wrong thing

to do, just that we don't do it.

Now I am done, have done enough translating and such so I'll not

answer any more of your posts. Just want you to know that so you don't

think me rude for ignoring your posts.

Belinda

>

> I didn't see anybody that though a handful was bad stuff. I also didn't

> see any posts that thought 20 lbs a day was good UNLESS they were

> market (beef not dairy) animals. Where did you read that?

>

>

> >

> > Charity,

> >

> > Lucky for me the feed mill will bag mine in 50 pound bags. I don't

> > think I'd be able to handle the 100 pound bags any more.

> >

> > Anyhow, the question was just to find out what folks are thinking

> > grain feeding is. It is obvious to me that everyone has a different

> > idea. Some feel that a handful is bad stuff and others figure 10-20

> > pounds a day is OK.

> >

> > Belinda

>

[Guest guest]

sharon,

excuse me for sounding irritated but if you would have read the whole post IN the context it was written, i did say THE market but meant OUR market demands and yes, i am in 2006! We know the "NEW" market is demanding grass fed but most of our customers aren't. yes we educate and tell people but most like the taste of the corn fed beef. Most people don't like the concept of low and slow. they want it now. We know ALL the benefits of what grass-fed is and does AND we have heard all the best speak on it from Jerry Brunetti to Salatin to Francis Thicke to Sally Fallon to Doug Gunnick and the Weston A Price foundation and beyond!!!!!! your preachin' to the choir.

I also believe i said we are on RENTED ground (yes i am quite irritated now!) and we don't know what direction we are running in the next few years as my dad in low will be retiring. we don't know what for ground we will have. At the present time we cannot follow our "conscience" and do all grass fed; it doesn't work at the present. landlords dictate much. Because we are on rented ground we don't want to spend a lot of extra $$ to get the pastures where we would like them as for as plants, forage, etc. Our chickens are grass-fed, out on pasture Salatin-style. Our hens are free to roam the yard.

Excuse the demeanor of this post but people on this site are not the most pleasant when it comes to people with different opinions. They tend to jump all over them - just like you are doing with me. and run them down. And i am sure i will have more all over me like a wet blanket for this post!

Re: Grain Feeding cattle

On 11/25/06, Tramar Farms <tramariowatelecom (DOT) net> wrote:>>> Now about feeding 20#'s of grain a day, our fat cattle are about up to that when they reach market weightnd that is about 1300#'s! and that is alot! you have to be careful with the grain and not intro it to fast or it throws off their systems. and yes, we agree that grass fed is best but grain fed is what the market is demanding. all the info is from my farmer hubby!> ro>Ro,Welcome to the year 2006. The new market is demanding Grass Fed Meat.It'll take you a little bit more work, of course to reach this market.Should you decide, down the road, to follow your conscience, sinceyou did admit that grass fed is better (which means more healthy foranimal and human), don't blow off grass-fed so quickly. Some day,your farm, like many others, may come to depend on those of us in themarket (and we're increasing in numbers and demand daily) who ONLYwant grass-fed products - dairy and meat. Are you familiar withWeston A. Price? www.westonaprice.org, www.eatwild.com orhttp://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm? If not, they offergreat information about raising/reaching the grass-fed market.Sharon

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/548 - Release Date: 11/23/2006

[Guest guest]

I have some friends who have a Jersey that has been fresh for 36

months- that's right, 36 months. If you find genetics that will do

this for you, why breed them and freshen them again if they are

producing to your needs?

In the winter, they grain feed to keep the lactation going while their

pastures are not there, then in the spring the lactation comes right

back up with the grass.

There's lot's to be said for genetics that will allow a dairy animal

to produce like that- it is sad that I see that show ring dictating

type and breed characteristics, instead of production to support an

extended lactation of magnificent proportions.

Betsy

Cosby, TN

[Guest guest]

I have discovered that a lot of Jersey herds in Canada are using longevity

as advertising criteria. There are some in Ontario with cows 12 or more

years old on a commercial line. Now remember that in Canada we are not

allowed to use that hormone on dairy cows so that probably makes a

difference too. I know that Holstiens are not standing up to the age as

well. I wish more people would look at the reasons behind these issues when

doing research instead of just pushing for larger quantities of milk.

Debbie Chikousky

Manitoba, Canada

gdchik@...

http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

[Guest guest]

I am currently milking a goat that has been fresh for 20 months now. I am

planning to breed her this winter just so I can get another daughter

(hopefully) out of her. She drops quite a bit in the winter months but comes

right back up in the spring. I had one do the same thing 3 years ago. She

milked for a full 2 1/2 years before I dried her off so she could rest for 2

months before having her kids.

Jessi

LHR Manufacturing

Setting The Standard for Portable Milking Machines

http://www.milking-machines.com

Re: Re: Grain Feeding cattle

I have some friends who have a Jersey that has been fresh for 36

months- that's right, 36 months. If you find genetics that will do

this for you, why breed them and freshen them again if they are

producing to your needs?

In the winter, they grain feed to keep the lactation going while their

pastures are not there, then in the spring the lactation comes right

back up with the grass.

There's lot's to be said for genetics that will allow a dairy animal

to produce like that- it is sad that I see that show ring dictating

type and breed characteristics, instead of production to support an

extended lactation of magnificent proportions.

Betsy

Cosby, TN

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

Archive search: http://onibasu.com

[Guest guest]

How much milk do you get a day? I had a goat that went for 12 months

and was pretty proud put you've got me beat by a lot!

Belinda

>

> I am currently milking a goat that has been fresh for 20 months now.

I am

> planning to breed her this winter just so I can get another daughter

> (hopefully) out of her. She drops quite a bit in the winter months

but comes

> right back up in the spring. I had one do the same thing 3 years

ago. She

> milked for a full 2 1/2 years before I dried her off so she could

rest for 2

> months before having her kids.

> Jessi

>

> LHR Manufacturing

> Setting The Standard for Portable Milking Machines

> http://www.milking-machines.com

>

>

>

> Re: Re: Grain Feeding cattle

>

>

> I have some friends who have a Jersey that has been fresh for 36

> months- that's right, 36 months. If you find genetics that will do

> this for you, why breed them and freshen them again if they are

> producing to your needs?

>

> In the winter, they grain feed to keep the lactation going while their

> pastures are not there, then in the spring the lactation comes right

> back up with the grass.

>

> There's lot's to be said for genetics that will allow a dairy animal

> to produce like that- it is sad that I see that show ring dictating

> type and breed characteristics, instead of production to support an

> extended lactation of magnificent proportions.

>

> Betsy

> Cosby, TN

>

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

thank you christina for your understanding. we will impliment the grass fed practices when circumstances dictate we can.our grasses are not where we want them, therefore we need to supplement a little bit. and the grasses won't be where we want them on rented ground. way too much back stabbing around here between neighbors and he who dies with the most land wins! we're waiting for the land prices to fall big time and the land to come up for sale again or something shows up in a raw milk friendly state.different state. until then we hold the status quo.

sharon, i don't need a cup of tea to calm me down. a little tolerance from those who think they have all the answers would be better. but about now, a nice cup of tea milk sounds good....

ro

Re: Grain Feeding cattle

I am constantly overwhelmed and amazed how rude people can be on this site. I just remind myself that it is a small percentage of everyone that posts here.I would love to grass feed, but it is not possible. Thankfully I only produce milk for myself. I agree that grass fed is the way to go too, but the market and conditions are not always conducive to this. Keep plugging away raising those cows and you might just find yourselves in a completely different situation in a few yrs. Educate yourselves, I admire that in producers, even if they can't implement the info at that moment. Heck it might even rain here and I could plant my pastures lol.Right now we are looking at the seventh hay crop to fail.*Sigh*

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/548 - Release Date: 11/23/2006

[Guest guest]

I would certaintly prefer to raise grass-only fed cattle. I even do

not have a problem with custome raising whole steers that way for

customers, if they want. However, I do not have enough customers

expressing a grass-fed interest to justify even a whole steer -

combined. I have taken the compromise approach -- grass-raised with a

short (and moderate amount) grain finishing time. This still gives

the higher CLA & Omega-3 and still keeps the fat, calories & Omega-6

lower. What it does is add just enough marbling to make people happy.

Beef that is too lean is just too dry for most people.

I too am on local harvest. They kep 15% of each sale however (10% for

CSAs).

$2.75/lb for turkey is cheap if it is a heritage breed. I have to pay

at least $6 for each turkey poult in the spring and then pay $8-$15

just to have them processed after a 80 mile drive (each way). I

cannot afford to only charge $2.75 a pound. My Heritage Breeds do not

get very big. Royal Palms get 8-15 lbs, dressed and the Bourbon Red

only gets to 12-23 lbs, dressed. I have to charge $3.75 lb. Even for

the smoking, which I add $2 lb -- costs me $1.50/lb and it shrinks

the size of the bird. Honestly, I have NO idea how confinement

operations can wholesell teir birds cheap enough for people to buy

them at $.39 & $.59 /lb. The grocery store HAS to be subsidizing it!

Yes, I do pork as well. That was our first farm animal. People LOVE

our lean, pasture-fed pork. We ran out last season in August and have

been going by pre-paid or with deposit waiting list since then.

Yes, eventually the market will open up for grass-fed meats. Until

then, I compromise on the beef. I like your idea of the Dr offices

for cards & brochures. That is an excellent idea that I will work on

during this off-sesaon.

Thank you for the encouragement to keep on truckin, so to speak. With

all of the struggles we deal with everyday, it is nice to be reminded

that there really is a light at the end.

" Sharon son " wrote:

>

> Charity,

> All I know as a consumer is that after nearly three years of driving

> hundreds of miles to find grass-fed meat products, we're finally

> seeing more farms within a 100-mile range who are raising those

> products. It's taken a lot of effort on our part, finding the right

> lists (Local Harvest, for example), talking to people in feed stores

> and asking if they know who the grass-fed farmers are (they have all

> willingly helped us find people), and just keeping our eyes open.

I'm

> not thrilled with paying $2.75 a pound for our Thanksgiving turkey,

> but I'm thankful there are farmers here in New England raising

turkeys

> naturally, and for those in my family who snicker while eating their

> .59/lb turkey? We each make our own choices. Paying " extra "

> (actually, paying what a product is worth, hopefully) is as

important

> to me as tithing. It's about Life.

>

> I'm thrilled to see CSA's growing by leaps and bounds. Here in New

> England, there are at least a dozen new ones within a 50-mile radius

> of our home, who are not only offering the usual vegetables, but

also

> taking pre-orders on chickens, beef, pork, etc. Pre-ordering does

> seem to be working for some farmers. I'm in New England, but I have

a

> farmer friend in Wisconsin who will be pasturing a hog for us next

> year. It'll be worth the gas money for me to drive there and pick it

> up.

>

> As far as the market goes, the more people who get a diagnosis of

> heart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, arthritis,

> cancer, or any number of others, will drive up market demand.

> Grass-fed meat and milk don't seem to be high-demand items unless

> there's a DX that wakens one up to the shortness of this life, eh?

> Some of my farmers find that leaving cards/brochure with

chiropractors

> is a good way to find customers. It's interesting to look at the

> California market and see demand for grass-fed products coming

through

> chefs - one can only hope THAT isn't a short-lived concept because

if

> it works, that concept can spread across the country. Of course,

the

> downside is there may not be enough grass-fed product to meet that

> demand, and what there is will go to them, rather than the small

> consumer like me.

>

> For you and others who are trying to do the right thing, please keep

> trying. And I don't say that without an understanding of the

> difficulties. But we need you. And there are plenty others out

there

> who probably don't know yet how much they also need you, but they'll

> come. I also think the responsibility for promoting your products

> belongs to your customers. At least, that's the way my husband and

I

> feel about our farmers. We do our best to pass along their names

and

> phone numbers, several times finding we did such a good job, there

> wasn't milk/poultry left for us. Oh, well, there's always a next

> time. And we learned through that to put in a standing order.

>

> Best,

> Sharon

>

>

> >

>

> > THank you for sticking to your guns. I too am in the delima of

> > knowing where the market is going and knowing what MY customers

want.

> > We can raise animals however we want, but if our customers

aren'[t

> > yet willing to buy it then we go bankrupt. Finding " the right "

> > customers is NOT as easy as it sounds when you already have farm

> > chores & current customers that you need to keep happy. I give a

> > little bit of grain now, as a treat & to keep them friendly. One

of

> > these bull calves will stay that way and the other will be

> > for " market " . They will be raised the same -- mostly forages with

> > treats added -- until 60-90 days before processing for the one.

Then

> > we will up his grain to closer to 20 lbs a day to give him a

short

> > finishing period. This still leaves all the good benefits of

higher

> > Omega-3, lower Omega-6 and higher CLA BUT it adds the marbling

that

> > MY customers demand. It's MY compromise. And, I'm not sorry for

it. I

> > have too many people to make happy. Now, if somebody wants to

pay me

> > in advance to custom raise their beef for them -- as they

dictate --

> > I'm open to offers!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The average cull-rate in Wisconsin is 35%. Since they enter the

milking herd at age 2, that means that they have 2-3 lactations, on

average, before being replaced. They push the Holsteins too hard and

their bodies cannot take it. It is a shame that 4-5 years old,

technically a " young cow " has become too warn out and must become dog

food. (Not even hamburger because at this point tehre is no meat left

on her).

>

> I have discovered that a lot of Jersey herds in Canada are using

longevity

> as advertising criteria. There are some in Ontario with cows 12 or

more

> years old on a commercial line. Now remember that in Canada we are

not

> allowed to use that hormone on dairy cows so that probably makes a

> difference too. I know that Holstiens are not standing up to the

age as

> well. I wish more people would look at the reasons behind these

issues when

> doing research instead of just pushing for larger quantities of

milk.

> Debbie Chikousky

> Manitoba, Canada

> gdchik@...

> http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

>

[Guest guest]

here is a problem we have where we live. a lot people have blinders on and if the information doesn't come from the state university it isn't so!

example: we had leaned about CLA's in chix, eggs and grass-fed animals one year by reading salatin's books and also sally fallon, attending conferences etc. we were excited! something good to crow about. enter some friends of ours. oh try our eggs we said. oh they are too expensive! (he's so tight he could make copper wire out of a penny! but that's another story) i think at the time we charged $1 doz for eggs something like that. a couple years later in the Iowa Farmer Today, an article appeared about how ISU had done research and found that cla's were great! all of a sudden they wanted our eggs. what changed? the state u had said they were ok. the blinders were pushed back a bit.

example: another friend wanted to eat healthy (she & hubby are in 60's i believe) she started planting a garden and canning and freezing. we were talking about farm fresh eggs at potluck one time. she asked what we charged. we told her $1,50 off farm. she looked at me and said she could never pay that much. i can get them at the grocery store for 59 ¢ i just looked at my husband and shook my head.

talk about the diet coke and a big mac mentality! really thick blinders on.

so, yah, this is what we're up against. Customers dictate what we raise. if we have a yard full of grass-fed beef and no outlet for it then all our efforts were for naught. so until we get more customers wanting grass-fed beef we are going to stay doing what we are doing.

Most people don't know how to cook it either.

We also won't go organic where we are at because our customers don't demand it and it isn't worth the hoops to jump thru at this time. We use organic practices like no hormones, no antibiotics, fertrell feed for the chickens. it isn't worth our time and effort so don't go blasting us for not being organic. please.

a side note: thanksgiving eve i made real whipped cream (about 2 qts worth) for the pie fellowship after the evening service. had it in a bowl next to the cool whip. we only went thru one bowl of cool whip. people would ask what was in the bowl and i told them. most, with out hesitation, took the real stuff. all ages took it, but a lot were over 70 yrs. they remember the old days!

oh, by the way, thanks for the tip on cooling the bowl and whip attachement for the mixer. stuck them in the freezer. it worked great!

ro

Re: Re: Grain Feeding cattle

Charity,All I know as a consumer is that after nearly three years of drivinghundreds of miles to find grass-fed meat products, we're finallyseeing more farms within a 100-mile range who are raising thoseproducts. It's taken a lot of effort on our part, finding the rightlists (Local Harvest, for example), talking to people in feed storesand asking if they know who the grass-fed farmers are (they have allwillingly helped us find people), and just keeping our eyes open. I'mnot thrilled with paying $2.75 a pound for our Thanksgiving turkey,but I'm thankful there are farmers here in New England raising turkeysnaturally, and for those in my family who snicker while eating their.59/lb turkey? We each make our own choices. Paying "extra"(actually, paying what a product is worth, hopefully) is as importantto me as tithing. It's about Life.I'm thrilled to see CSA's growing by leaps and bounds. Here in NewEngland, there are at least a dozen new ones within a 50-miles radiusof our home, who are not only offering the usual vegetables, but alsotaking pre-orders on chickens, beef, pork, etc. Pre-ordering doesseem to be working for some farmers. I'm in New England, but I have afarmer friend in Wisconsin who will be pasturing a hog for us nextyear. It'll be worth the gas money for me to drive there and pick itup.It's interesting to see the number of universities across the countrywho are operating their own "natural-foods" grass-raised meats onfarms that are basically a "front" for their studies. My hope isthey're doing this to develop educational marketing programs for smallfarmers.I also see hope in the number of people discovering the Weston A.Price way of eating....in my little world, it seems most people findgrass-fed products through that organization or through attendingmonthly meetings and talking to others. All I can do as a consumer iskeep buying. About 90% of our food now comes from local farms - allorganic, all grass-fed and I can't wait for the day that people acrossthe country can have that same opportunity, IF ONLY the gov't wouldcooperate. For us, eating this way instead of factory-producedfoods is essential. It's made a great deal of difference for myAutistic son. My hope is that for the future of my children, whowon't have to grow up as my husband and I did, on canned, fast,"convenient" frozen foods, is they'll have better health.As far as the market goes, the more people who get a diagnosis ofheart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, arthritis,cancer, or any number of others, will drive up market demand.Grass-fed meat and milk don't seem to be high-demand items unlessthere's a DX that wakens one up to the shortness of this life, eh?Some of my farmers find that leaving cards/brochure with chiropractorsis a good way to find customers. It's interesting to look at theCalifornia market and see demand for grass-fed products coming throughchefs - one can only hope THAT isn't a short-lived concept because ifit works, that concept can spread across the country. Of course, thedownside is there may not be enough grass-fed product to meet thatdemand, and what there is will go to them, rather than the smallconsumer like me.For us, it was an IBS husband and an Autistic son, as well as a MILand my mother with early-onset Azlheimer's that made us stop to askwhat was going on and going wrong - stopping to get a big picture viewof life, and for us, it came down to the quality (or lack thereof) offood on our table.For you and others who are trying to do the right thing, please keeptrying. And I don't say that without an understanding of thedifficulties. But we need you. And there are plenty others out therewho probably don't know yet how much they also need you, but they'llcome. I also think the responsibility for promoting your productsbelongs to your customers. At least, that's the way my husband and Ifeel about our farmers. We do our best to pass along their names andphone numbers, several times finding we did such a good job, therewasn't milk/poultry left for us. Oh, well, there's always a nexttime. And we learned through that to put in a standing order. ;)Best,SharonOn 11/25/06, Charity <Charityharrisfamilyfarms> wrote:>> THank you for sticking to your guns. I too am in the delima of> knowing where the market is going and knowing what MY customers want.> We can raise animals however we want, but if our customers aren'[t> yet willing to buy it then we go bankrupt. Finding "the right"> customers is NOT as easy as it sounds when you already have farm> chores & current customers that you need to keep happy. I give a> little bit of grain now, as a treat & to keep them friendly. One of> these bull calves will stay that way and the other will be> for "market". They will be raised the same -- mostly forages with> treats added -- until 60-90 days before processing for the one. Then> we will up his grain to closer to 20 lbs a day to give him a short> finishing period. This still leaves all the good benefits of higher> Omega-3, lower Omega-6 and higher CLA BUT it adds the marbling that> MY customers demand. It's MY compromise. And, I'm not sorry for it. I> have too many people to make happy. Now, if somebody wants to pay me> in advance to custom raise their beef for them -- as they dictate --> I'm open to offers!>

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