Re: What do you use for?????

January 3, 2007

" You have a small herd and plan on having them nurse from mom. Should

any of the mom's develop a disease of some sort you will know who the

offspring are, it is that simple. You don't need a whole lot of years

of experience to be able to figure that out, eh?

Don't know who the post was directed at, without a bit of the previous

post it's impossible to tell. Perhaps we are supposed to be kept guessing?

Belinda in TN "

As I said, in the case of CAE 85%-90% of those who have do not show

signs? How is a beginner going to tell just from looking at the animals

that the goats are infected???

Let me ask you folks a question. said that her friend has a dairy

has goats who are infected with CAE. It's a pretty well know fact that

those who drink CAE positive raw milk can test positive for HIV. What do

you think will happen to a person who drinks CAE positive raw milk and

gets a HIV test? HOW DO YOU THINK IT IS GOING TO EFFECT THEIR LIVES????

Do you not consider how your actions (or in-actions) are going to effect

peoples lives?

Animal disease can effect humans and it is a well known fact that raw

milk CAN BE a vector of disease transmission.

That is why it is important to have HEALTHY ANIMALS and to test for disease!

Unless, of course, you think raw milk is " magic " and it will " magically "

protect you from everything including the boogey-man.

And I sign all my emails. I'm not afraid of speaking out on something

that strikes me as being uninformed.

*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

@

" Laudo Deum " Farm

kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

families with young children.

(And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

January 3, 2007

Maybe those that rely on chemical wormers, vaccines etc. are

keeping their head in the sand. There are many options and much trial

and error, but I refuse to be so narrow minded that only deadly poison

will do. If we work with the natural system there is no need for toxic

chemistry.

Foot and mouth, bangs, es, TB are all supposed to be big bad

diseases that require killing the animal. This is the simpleton

approach. Minerals are the solution and have been proven to help. No $

in them so we will continue to hear about the " benefits " of the deadly

poisons and why we should cease thinking and searching for a SOLUTION

and use the bandaide. Or maybe we just live in the wrong part of the

country . LOL!!!

If I lived in TN I still wouldn't be using products from the devils

pantry. I'd be figuring out how to do it right as many already are. I

agree, it can be harder in a warm climate, not impossible.

The NAIS is about money, control and eliminating small farms.

Digital Angel, MonSatan, and other sponsors. could care less about

anything but $.

Cheyenne

>

> You (and your friend) illustrate perfectly what I call " The keeping

your

> head in the sand " attitude that I find that too many animal people

have.

> Ignorance is not bliss , in the case of CAE and other contagious

> illnesses. Animals who are sick are not able to make milk that is fit

> for people to drink raw.

> This attitude is directly responsible for the NAIS program. The blood

> tests have been available for many years. It should be every herdsman

> priority to build healthy, disease free herds. People who won't control

> it are not being ethical. I wonder of your friend mentions that she has

> these problems when she sells her goats?

>

> *~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

> @

> " Laudo Deum " Farm

> kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

>

> Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

> for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

> families with young children.

> (And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

>

January 3, 2007

Yes and lets just all back of Jo.Nothing in her post(s) were inflammatory. The fact is that if someone has a CAE or CL positive animal in their herd then they should NOT be continuing to breed, sell or otherwise spread infected animals around. I dont give a damn if they live 17 years with CAE. They have been bred for what, 15 of those years and ****hopefully*** the breeder has been ultra lucky to have at least some of those kids remain neg throughout their lives. The reason that these diseases are not eradicated is because someone says they just dont trust the testing or THEIR goats show no symptoms or it has been controlled with herbs or minerals. If you(collective you) want to keep sick animals then you are ethically bound to keep them on your property and take reasonable precautions to let others know your animals have said diseases. This list is so annoying for the holier than thou attitude it often takes. For goodness sakes. If someone wants to cull a diseased animal or thinks of it as livestock not a house pet then they are heartless??

The best thing to do when you are new at something is to ask questions. This list is wonderfully knowledgeable but there are equally as many high and mighty attitudes without merit as their are good people so once again, I say stick with it and you will learn to use the delete key and or blocking option in your email program. Of course raw milk is the best. If you need to pasteurize it for whatever reason you are not to be condemned as it sounds in this thread. Not everyone was born into the raw milk movement. I would rather see people testing the waters and coming to it their own way rather than blindly drinking raw milk from an animal because they are bullied into thinking its a crime against nature to pasteurize. Geez..Amelia, MT

January 3, 2007

Jo,

I must have missed the post about 10%-15% of CAE goats being symptom

free. What I've read is that it shows up in most of the larger dairy

herds, those that are " intensively raised. " I'd thought that, as they

age, the goats would show signs of CAE but what I understand you to

say is that symptoms only appear in a very small amount of goats. If

this is true, that the vast majority are symptomless, then what's all

the fuss about? Why do we care if they have CAE? My thought was that

it would be a terrible, painful way to go but if that's not the case

then who cares?

The positive HIV testing would be the only problem, or so it would

seem. How long after drinking CAE milk does a person test positive?

That all said, let me be clear about the fact that we were testing for

CAE yearly. Didn't test last spring and won't this year either. USDA

has taken care of that with their threat of NAIS, vet doesn't stop

here much anymore.

Jo, never said you didn't sign your post. Just had no idea who you

were aiming at with your post.

Belinda

>

> " You have a small herd and plan on having them nurse from mom. Should

> any of the mom's develop a disease of some sort you will know who the

> offspring are, it is that simple. You don't need a whole lot of years

> of experience to be able to figure that out, eh?

>

> Don't know who the post was directed at, without a bit of the previous

> post it's impossible to tell. Perhaps we are supposed to be kept

guessing?

>

> Belinda in TN "

>

> As I said, in the case of CAE 85%-90% of those who have do not show

> signs? How is a beginner going to tell just from looking at the animals

> that the goats are infected???

>

> Let me ask you folks a question. said that her friend has a

dairy

> has goats who are infected with CAE. It's a pretty well know fact that

> those who drink CAE positive raw milk can test positive for HIV.

What do

> you think will happen to a person who drinks CAE positive raw milk and

> gets a HIV test? HOW DO YOU THINK IT IS GOING TO EFFECT THEIR LIVES????

>

> Do you not consider how your actions (or in-actions) are going to

effect

> peoples lives?

>

> Animal disease can effect humans and it is a well known fact that raw

> milk CAN BE a vector of disease transmission.

>

> That is why it is important to have HEALTHY ANIMALS and to test for

disease!

>

> Unless, of course, you think raw milk is " magic " and it will

" magically "

> protect you from everything including the boogey-man.

>

> And I sign all my emails. I'm not afraid of speaking out on something

> that strikes me as being uninformed.

>

> *~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

> @

> " Laudo Deum " Farm

> kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

>

> Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

> for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

> families with young children.

> (And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

>

January 4, 2007

If this is such a well known fact then where is the evidence to

support the claim?

I asked my vet about this and she had never heard of it and we

would both like to know.

-- In RawDairy , Jo

wrote:

>

"

> It's a pretty well know fact that

> those who drink CAE positive raw milk can test positive for HIV.

What do

> you think will happen to a person who drinks CAE positive raw milk

and

> gets a HIV test? HOW DO YOU THINK IT IS GOING TO EFFECT THEIR

LIVES????

>

> Do you not consider how your actions (or in-actions) are going to

effect

> peoples lives?

>

> Animal disease can effect humans and it is a well known fact that

raw

> milk CAN BE a vector of disease transmission.

>

> That is why it is important to have HEALTHY ANIMALS and to test

for disease!

>

> Unless, of course, you think raw milk is " magic " and it

will " magically "

> protect you from everything including the boogey-man.

>

> And I sign all my emails. I'm not afraid of speaking out on

something

> that strikes me as being uninformed.

>

> *~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

> @

> " Laudo Deum " Farm

> kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

>

> Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

> for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

> families with young children.

> (And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

>

January 4, 2007

Is this in response to me, Jo? My friend stopped breeding or selling goats

over 10 years ago. I give her a couple of wethers a year to make sure she

doesn't run out of " weedeaters " to keep cattle pastures clear. It takes

20-30 goats to keep up with the brush for her, and at the rate her old ones

are dying off, she'll be out of her own goats within probably 5 years. I've

given her many youngsters because I'm just so grateful for all the help and

wisdom she's given me. She doesn't have internet, so now I help her with

updated information.

Her knowledge and experience with CAE has been very helpful to me since I