Re: What do you use for?????

[Guest guest]

Why would one ever pasteurize healthy, grassfed raw milk?

D.

moderator

>

> For those of you that pasterize your milk (i'm going to pasterize SOME of

mine) how do you

go about doing it? I know it needs to get to 165 degrees for 30 seconds but I

was reading not

to do it directly in the pot because of scoorching. Do you just use a double

boiler type

system?

>

> How long does it take for the milk to get to 165 degrees, approx.

>

>

> ~ a ~

> www.farmgirlhaven.com

> www.homesteadblogger.com/MyFarmgirlHaven/

> http://my.tupperware.com/ROBERTA67

>

[Guest guest]

First answer that comes to my mind is that the animals are not healthy.

Belinda

>

> Why would one ever pasteurize healthy, grassfed raw milk?

> D.

> moderator

>

>

[Guest guest]

2 good reasons I can think of. Soap making and cae prevention for

feeding goat kids.

*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

@

" Laudo Deum " Farm

kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

families with young children.

(And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

[Guest guest]

Well, I have several friends that are interested in getting milk from me, for various uses. I don't want to take the chance on giving them Raw milk. I just feel better taking the precaution when it's someone elses health on the line. I'm aware of all the benefits of Raw Dairy, I currently use raw cow milk that I get form a Farmer and have used it for years.

a

Re: What do you use for?????

Why would one ever pasteurize healthy, grassfed raw milk? D.moderator>> For those of you that pasterize your milk (i'm going to pasterize SOME of mine) how do you go about doing it? I know it needs to get to 165 degrees for 30 seconds but I was reading not to do it directly in the pot because of scoorching. Do you just use a double boiler type system? > > How long does it take for the milk to get to 165 degrees, approx. > > > ~ a ~> www.farmgirlhaven.com> www.homesteadblogger.com/MyFarmgirlHaven/> http://my.tupperware.com/ROBERTA67>

[Guest guest]

Not the reason here. My Does are in wonderful health and condition. I'm new to milking and this whole Dairy thing. I would rather be safe then sorry at this beginning stage of the game. As I mentioned before, I am aware of the benefits of Raw Dairy and use it in my own home from a Farmer I know who supplies Raw Cows Milk.

a

Re: What do you use for?????

First answer that comes to my mind is that the animals are not healthy.Belinda>> Why would one ever pasteurize healthy, grassfed raw milk?> D.> moderator> >

[Guest guest]

For me be safe rather than sorry would be going with the raw milk................instead of the pasturized!!!!

RHonda

Re: What do you use for?????

First answer that comes to my mind is that the animals are not healthy.Belinda>> Why would one ever pasteurize healthy, grassfed raw milk?> D.> moderator> >

[Guest guest]

my first try @ posting so please forgive me if I do it wrong! We have

been drinking RAW MILK for almost 2 years now, we have had no problems,

I hate to have to buy steroid soup when the raw milk runs low!! I

would think those wanting to buy raw milk have done their research and

want just that... raw milk....

>

> For those of you that pasterize your milk (i'm going to pasterize

SOME of mine) how do you go about doing it? I know it needs to get to

165 degrees for 30 seconds but I was reading not to do it directly in

the pot because of scoorching. Do you just use a double boiler type

system?

>

> How long does it take for the milk to get to 165 degrees, approx.

>

>

> ~ a ~

> www.farmgirlhaven.com

> www.homesteadblogger.com/MyFarmgirlHaven/

> http://my.tupperware.com/ROBERTA67

>

[Guest guest]

Hi a,

I understand being scared and being new. When I tried my first glass of

raw milk, I sat down and waited to...well you know....die. Everyone said I

would, everyone said so. But being the rebel I am, I was determined to

try this raw milk thing. After nothing happened, I drank more, still a little

afraid, with no adverse effects. Then after about a week I thought " This

is ridiculous " and quit being scared. I gave it to my whole family and they

survived. They even thrived. That was many years ago.

One of the best peices I have ever read on raw milk is at this link. Read

it and you will come away amazed.

:-)

D.

moderator

http://www.karlloren.com/aajonus/p15.htm

>

> Rhonda ~ I appreciate your kind and considerate input. This is all new to me

and I'm just

a little scared about the whole thing to be honest. I know what I've read and it

all makes

sense to me, etc. I'm just a child of the processing era and old habits are hard

to break.

>

> One of the reasons I am on this list though is to learn and become educated so

I

appreciate the kindness in your replies.

>

> a

>

> Re: Re: What do you use for?????

>

>

>

> Remember when you pasturize milk you then have a sterile place where bad

bacteria

will proliferate. You have killed all the good stuff and there is nothing to

keep it from

going bad. Just some things to consider. If you are not comfortable with your

raw milk,

think about what you can do so that you can be comfortable. Once you get into a

routine

you will finid that it is not so scary!!!

>

>

> Rhonda

[Guest guest]

How did all the billions and billions of goats in the world

down through all the ages of history make it past kidhood cae

before pasteurization? I am not being smarty, but I would really

like to know. I don't even really know what cae is....

D.

moderator

>

> 2 good reasons I can think of. Soap making and cae prevention for

> feeding goat kids.

>

> *~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

> @

> " Laudo Deum " Farm

> kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

>

> Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

> for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

> families with young children.

> (And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

>

[Guest guest]

waited to die...he he! We have lots of organic eating people and lots of raw milk drinkers in our church and we are still rolling with the good old things in life, the way God made them! Pure and natural. Drink up! chicsingr2 wrote: Hi a,I understand being scared and being new. When I tried my first glass ofraw milk, I sat down and waited to...well you know....die. Everyone said Iwould, everyone said so. But being the rebel I am, I was determined to try

this raw milk thing. After nothing happened, I drank more, still a littleafraid, with no adverse effects. Then after about a week I thought "Thisis ridiculous" and quit being scared. I gave it to my whole family and theysurvived. They even thrived. That was many years ago. One of the best peices I have ever read on raw milk is at this link. Read it and you will come away amazed.:-) D.moderatorhttp://www.karlloren.com/aajonus/p15.htm>> Rhonda ~ I appreciate your kind and considerate input. This is all new to me and I'm just a little scared about the whole thing to be honest. I know what I've read and it all makes sense to me, etc. I'm just a child of the processing era and old habits are hard to

break. > > One of the reasons I am on this list though is to learn and become educated so I appreciate the kindness in your replies. > > a> > Re: Re: What do you use for?????> > > > Remember when you pasturize milk you then have a sterile place where bad bacteria will proliferate. You have killed all the good stuff and there is nothing to keep it from going bad. Just some things to consider. If you are not comfortable with your raw milk, think about what you can do so that you can be comfortable. Once you get into a routine you will finid that it is not so scary!!!> > > Rhonda __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

We donot practice CAE prevention and might ought. I've never seen it in goats

raised " naturally " ,ie normal density population settings, browse/forage/kelp no

feed concentrates. The best goat health book for one interested is " Natural Goat

Care " ,Pat Colby.

Robie

www.bluestemfarms.com

> --- Re: What do you use for?????

>

> Date: Mon, January 01, 2007 10:21 pm

> To: RawDairy

>

> How did all the billions and billions of goats in the world

> down through all the ages of history make it past kidhood cae

> before pasteurization? I am not being smarty, but I would really

> like to know. I don't even really know what cae is....

> D.

> moderator

>

>

> >

> > 2 good reasons I can think of. Soap making and cae prevention for

> > feeding goat kids.

> >

> > *~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

> > @

> > " Laudo Deum " Farm

> > kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

> >

> > Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

> > for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

> > families with young children.

> > (And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

> >

>

>

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder the same thing. There are a lot of goat owners who wouldn't

drink pasteurized milk themselves but force their animals to do so.

Then they wonder why the babies are ill.

It would seem to me if your dairy animals are so ill that all the milk

they produce has to be pasteurize before feeding to their young then

you probably shouldn't be drinking it either. But, that's just my opinion.

Belinda

> How did all the billions and billions of goats in the world

> down through all the ages of history make it past kidhood cae

> before pasteurization? I am not being smarty, but I would really

> like to know. I don't even really know what cae is....

> D.

> moderator

>

>

> >

> > 2 good reasons I can think of. Soap making and cae prevention for

> > feeding goat kids.

[Guest guest]

Just from reading, evidently CAE was a serious problem resulting in kid

deaths, among other things. CAE's a virus, incurable, untreatable.

Having said that, my first goat, a wether, came from my best friend who's

had goats for well over 20 years, hasn't bred any for several years now, so

her herd is getting ancient. Her herd, numbering up to 120 dairy animals in

years past, has CAE, which, after observing for 10 years, I can't see as

much of a problem. A small percentage of her animals develop symptoms--joint

problems--and usually are so debilitated by age 4 that they must be put

down. The majority of her herd, probably better than 90%, are totally

asymptomatic. Her oldest doe died last year just before her 20th birthday,

creaky joints and all.

Maybe long-time goat breeders saw something different, but if this is as bad

as it gets, I don't see the point in testing and/or bottle-raising kids on

pasturized milk. I honestly prefer to be a little tough on my animals,

survival of the fittest immune system so to speak.

in TN

Re: What do you use for?????

> How did all the billions and billions of goats in the world

> down through all the ages of history make it past kidhood cae

> before pasteurization? I am not being smarty, but I would really

> like to know. I don't even really know what cae is....

> D.

> moderator

[Guest guest]

CAE is a virus similar to HIV/AIDS. It only effects goats. This has a

big impact on the health of the herd, if the animals have it. The sad

thing about CAE is that most goats who have it do o.k. They test

positive for it without getting the serious symptoms of the disease. BUT

it is almost impossible to sell animals who have CAE, or who have been

exposed to it. (If the seller is honest...) This virus is passed mostly

in the milk and through red blood cells. CAE prevention uses pasturised

milk for feeding the kids and this breaks the cycle of the disease.

When a breeder is trying to establish their herd it is a very good idea

to get blood tests and for the first few generation cook the milk.

Afterwards when the disease status of the herd is known then you can

switch to natural feeding methods and the animals will really do well on

it. Humans can drink this milk but we can test HIV positive because of

it. Apparently the virus is so similar the human test will pick it up.

Mycoplasma, is another disease that you need to pasteurize milk for. I

believe this can be passed in the milk and again it has serious symptoms

for the animals and certainly makes the milk unhealthy. Mycoplasma is

hard to detect. It's worth it to cook the milk for a few generations for

the future health of the herd.

To warn you all though. Some states have laws about pasteurizing milk

for other people and then selling it. I would advice you not to sell raw

milk until you are comfortable with it yourself. Then if you do sell it,

only sell the raw product. Let the costumers cook it them selves.

I don't know the history of CAE before the 70's. I suspect though, that

farmers lived by the thrifty rule. If the lines were not healthy, hardy

and thrifty then they were culled. With CAE 10-15 percent of the animals

would get the signs of the disease (pneumonia, encephalitis in the kids,

severe arthritis and joint swelling in adults, rock hard unmilkable

udders in does)but many more would be out there passing it on.

*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

@

" Laudo Deum " Farm

kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

families with young children.

(And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

[Guest guest]

I have seen it naturally raised herds. It's in my herd and I certainly

practice natural methods. Pat Colby herself used CAE prevention for many

years. I've been over this many, many times! You might think you do not

have cae in your herd but it's almost impossible to know that for sure.

Animals can spend the majority of their life as tested cae negative and

then suddenly test positive. And then the breeder realizes that for the

(how many?) last generations all of the goats we worked so hard to

raise could also become positive? That is a very difficult thing to face

and it can literally ruin people. I'm not a cae Nazi (as some call them)

but I don't stick my head in the sand about it either.

*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

@

" Laudo Deum " Farm

kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

families with young children.

(And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

[Guest guest]

Is there a vaccine for CAE????

a

Re: Re: What do you use for?????

I have seen it naturally raised herds. It's in my herd and I certainly practice natural methods. Pat Colby herself used CAE prevention for many years. I've been over this many, many times! You might think you do not have cae in your herd but it's almost impossible to know that for sure. Animals can spend the majority of their life as tested cae negative and then suddenly test positive. And then the breeder realizes that for the (how many?) last generations all of the goats we worked so hard to raise could also become positive? That is a very difficult thing to face and it can literally ruin people. I'm not a cae Nazi (as some call them) but I don't stick my head in the sand about it either.*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*@"Laudo Deum" Farmkinderfolk_n_liddlebudscharter (DOT) netRaising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goatsfor small acreage farmers, homesteaders andfamilies with young children.(And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

[Guest guest]

Thank you, I stand corrected.

Humbly yours

Robie

--- Re:

Re: What do you use for?????From: Jo

Date: Tue, January 02,

2007 11:47 amTo: RawDairy I have seen it

naturally raised herds. It's in my herd and I certainly practice

natural methods. Pat Colby herself used CAE prevention for many

years. I've been over this many, many times! You might think you do

not have cae in your herd but it's almost impossible to know that

for sure. Animals can spend the majority of their life as tested

cae negative and then suddenly test positive. And then the

breeder realizes that for the (how many?) last generations

all of the goats we worked so hard to raise could also become

positive? That is a very difficult thing to face and it can

literally ruin people. I'm not a cae Nazi (as some call them) but I

don't stick my head in the sand about it either.*~*~* Jo & Pete

*~*~*@"Laudo Deum"

Farmkinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...Raising quality

Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goatsfor small acreage farmers,

homesteaders andfamilies with young children.(And producing

natural soaps for humans and animals.)PLEASE BE KIND AND

TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a

wealth of

information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive

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[Guest guest]

What are you trying to kill? It matters. Not all things are killed at the

sames temps? Personally we just don't use it.

Debbie Chikousky

Manitoba, Canada

gdchik@...

http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

Re: What do you use for?????

>

> First answer that comes to my mind is that the animals are not healthy.

>

> Belinda

>

[Guest guest]

a

pasteurizing the milk defeats the purpose of raw milk. if you want to pasteurize it then you might as well go to the store and buy it and avoid the hassles of milking and keeping livestock. do you drink the cows milk raw? if you do, you obviously trust your farmer in his/her milking practices.

Everyone here had to start with milking so we were all new to it at one time or another. Keep your area clean, keep the animal clean, if manure falls in to the milk discard it, etc, etc. If you use common sense practices (as most of farming is common sense =-) you should be fine. I think it all comes down to trust. and you have to have trust in yourself the most, that you CAN DO THIS!!!! =-)

ro

Re: What do you use for?????

First answer that comes to my mind is that the animals are not healthy.Belinda>> Why would one ever pasteurize healthy, grassfed raw milk?> D.> moderator> >

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/2006

[Guest guest]

Hi a,I understand being scared and being new. When I tried my first glass ofraw milk, I sat down and waited to...well you know....die. ROFLMAO!!! Thank you for that! I think I hurt myself... Sherry Listening Eagle Farm n NC __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

You (and your friend) illustrate perfectly what I call " The keeping your

head in the sand " attitude that I find that too many animal people have.

Ignorance is not bliss , in the case of CAE and other contagious

illnesses. Animals who are sick are not able to make milk that is fit

for people to drink raw.

This attitude is directly responsible for the NAIS program. The blood

tests have been available for many years. It should be every herdsman

priority to build healthy, disease free herds. People who won't control

it are not being ethical. I wonder of your friend mentions that she has

these problems when she sells her goats?

*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

@

" Laudo Deum " Farm

kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

families with young children.

(And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

[Guest guest]

Ya know....... I'm not sure if this was directed at me since a number of others have commented on this subject as well. But I find it incredibly upsetting and RUDE that a person who is new to keeping goats and is TRYING to sincerely learn ALL the options available to me, be they all natural or conventional, is meet with comments like this. I ASK question and make comments because I am LEARNING all of this. I thought that coming to a place like this with experienced goat keepers would be my best bet to get hands on information.

Many of you have been extremely kind and patient and HELPFUL in addressing my questions and comments. On the other hand many have been simply down right rude and mean. Thank God you are not teachers because if a student were to ask a question they would be insulted and made to feel like a fool and never want to ask another question again.

I find that MOST of the people that I know that prefer RAW Dairy are also into the benefits of it along with the benefits of OTHER healthy foods such as organics. I figured that would mean that many Raw Dairy people would keep organic goats as well. I guess I was wrong. I sincerely want to know what I need to be concerned about with my small little herd and how I can consume Healthy Raw Milk by still using chemical wormers and vaccinations. I don't want to put those things into my children's bodies. I'm asking......do you worm and vaccinate and then just toss the milk for a period of time until those things are out of the milk.....what???? What about the babies that are nursing? If you give the Does something do I need to pull the babies and bottle them with a re-placer????

I'm sorry if asking sincere questions is a problem for so many of you that are so quick to jump all over someone who is interested in learning. Shame on you for your attitudes and quick remarks before trying to help someone who is new to this and is trying to learn.

I was sincerely going to unsub from this list after this last comment. I am on 2 other goat lists that are very helpful and kind, but they are not RAW lists. I think I will stay because as I said before, there have been a number of you that have been so helpful and so kind. I thank those people for the time you have taken to e-mail me privately in regards to my questions. I'm actually learning a lot from those that actually take the time to "teach" and hopefully soon I will be an OLD pro like many of you here and will not have to bother the less friendly ones with my babble.

a

Re: Re: What do you use for?????

You (and your friend) illustrate perfectly what I call "The keeping your head in the sand" attitude that I find that too many animal people have. Ignorance is not bliss , in the case of CAE and other contagious illnesses. Animals who are sick are not able to make milk that is fit for people to drink raw.This attitude is directly responsible for the NAIS program. The blood tests have been available for many years. It should be every herdsman priority to build healthy, disease free herds. People who won't control it are not being ethical. I wonder of your friend mentions that she has these problems when she sells her goats?*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*@"Laudo Deum" Farmkinderfolk_n_liddlebudscharter (DOT) netRaising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goatsfor small acreage farmers, homesteaders andfamilies with young children.(And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

[Guest guest]

a,

Some folks will join a group like this to raise a fuss, it happens.

There are those on the anti-NAIS groups who are in favor of NAIS. THey

join to fight with folks if they make you mad enough to leave then

they have done what they came for.

While RAW and ORGANIC are not the same, I too, would prefer not to put

all that nasty in my system, or my animals for that matter. We do not

vaccinate our animals, or ourselves for that matter. Yes, there are

things out there that our animals can get because we do not but then

there are things out there that they can get if we do. Worming with

chemical wormers happens once, sometimes twice a year. At that point I

keep the milk away from humans for a month. If we have bottle babies

of any sort they get it or I use it in soap. I don't worry about the

nursing babies and use replacer as seldom as possible (that stuff is

really yucky).

You have a small herd and plan on having them nurse from mom. Should

any of the mom's develop a disease of some sort you will know who the

offspring are, it is that simple. You don't need a whole lot of years

of experience to be able to figure that out, eh?

Don't know who the post was directed at, without a bit of the previous

post it's impossible to tell. Perhaps we are supposed to be kept guessing?

Belinda in TN

> I find that MOST of the people that I know that prefer RAW Dairy are

also into the benefits of it along with the benefits of OTHER healthy

foods such as organics. I figured that would mean that many Raw Dairy

people would keep organic goats as well. I guess I was wrong. I

sincerely want to know what I need to be concerned about with my small

little herd and how I can consume Healthy Raw Milk by still using

chemical wormers and vaccinations. I don't want to put those things

into my children's bodies. I'm asking......do you worm and vaccinate

and then just toss the milk for a period of time until those things

are out of the milk.....what???? What about the babies that are

nursing? If you give the Does something do I need to pull the babies

and bottle them with a re-placer????

>

>

> a

[Guest guest]

jo

who was your comment directed too? no one can identify it because you cut too much info from your post.

ro

Re: Re: What do you use for?????

You (and your friend) illustrate perfectly what I call "The keeping your head in the sand" attitude that I find that too many animal people have. Ignorance is not bliss , in the case of CAE and other contagious illnesses. Animals who are sick are not able to make milk that is fit for people to drink raw.This attitude is directly responsible for the NAIS program. The blood tests have been available for many years. It should be every herdsman priority to build healthy, disease free herds. People who won't control it are not being ethical. I wonder of your friend mentions that she has these problems when she sells her goats?*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*@"Laudo Deum" Farmkinderfolk_n_liddlebudscharter (DOT) netRaising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goatsfor small acreage farmers, homesteaders andfamilies with young children.(And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.16.4/615 - Release Date: 1/3/2007

[Guest guest]

Sorry, was a comment to . I guess an untrimmed post can sometimes

be helpful...

*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

@

" Laudo Deum " Farm

kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

families with young children.

(And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)