Re: USDA Fencing Subsidies

[Guest guest]

I have no problem with tax credits...a tax credit that allows you to

keep some of your own money rather than turn it over to the government

to be wasted is fine, but...

Grants are NOT allowing you to keep more of your own money to put into

your farm, a grant is the government taking MY money as a taxpayer to

support YOUR farm...and that is unconsconable <sp>.

YOU choose to use more expensive fencing to run YOUR farm the way YOU

want to, and you expect me and every other taxpayer to pay for YOR

fencing choices.

Tell you what...YOU run your farm the way YOU want to, but do it out

of YOUR pocket, not mine, and I'll run MY farm MY way and pay my own

way without ripping off taxpayers...which is what a grant is...a

taxpayer rip-off, whether it's a grant to ConAgri,

Archer/s/Midland, or a small farmer like you and me.

Bob

>

> rolyn & alec

> not sure if every state has the exact same named org, but all

> counties in iowa have a soil and water conservation district office or

> a natural resource and soil conservation office (same office just

> different name) if you sign up and the state /feds have funds

> available, there is EQUIP and REAP funds available for interior

> fencing (wire, posts, insulators etc) you have to pay for the cost up

> front but when the county agency meets and you are approved, they cut

> you a check for either 1/2 or 3/4 of the cost of your fencing. Here,

> there is a minimum that they will write a check for so you cost has to

> be " xx " amount of dollars, we also have programs available for

> pasture watering systems and developing pastures. You just have to

> locate the agency in your county. maybe talk to your co. extension

> office? they maybe can steer you in the right direction. yah, yah, i

> know it is " government " but hey, if the money is available, use it!

> otherwise alec is right: fencing is fairly inexpensive.

> ro

>

[Guest guest]

If anyone knows that there is help for small farmers, grants, subsidies, you name it.....please post where to apply, so I can apply.....thanks, Trivia andra

[Guest guest]

Amen, Bob. People

just don’t seem to understand that the government actually has no money, EXCEPT

that which they take from the taxpayers. And the goodness or evilness of the

recipient of the redistribution of wealth is neither here nor there. When we

accept that it is “good” and “right” for the government

to take from me and give to you, or vice versa, we have lost a big chunk of

what it means to be a free people.

www.majestyfarm.com

" As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does

oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains

seemingly unchanged. And, it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of

change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the

darkness. " Justice O. ,

U.S. Supreme Court (1939-75)

From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Bob Hayles

Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006

7:39 PM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Re: USDA

Fencing Subsidies

I have no problem with tax credits...a tax credit that allows you to

keep some of your own money rather than turn it over to the government

to be wasted is fine, but...

Grants are NOT allowing you to keep more of your own money to put into

your farm, a grant is the government taking MY money as a taxpayer to

support YOUR farm...and that is unconsconable <sp>.

YOU choose to use more expensive fencing to run YOUR farm the way YOU

want to, and you expect me and every other taxpayer to pay for YOR

fencing choices.

Tell you what...YOU run your farm the way YOU want to, but do it out

of YOUR pocket, not mine, and I'll run MY farm MY way and pay my own

way without ripping off taxpayers...which is what a grant is...a

taxpayer rip-off, whether it's a grant to ConAgri,

Archer/s/Midland, or a small farmer like you and me.

Bob

>

> rolyn & alec

> not sure if every state has the exact same named org, but all

> counties in iowa

have a soil and water conservation district office or

> a natural resource and soil conservation office (same office just

> different name) if you sign up and the state /feds have funds

> available, there is EQUIP and REAP funds available for interior

> fencing (wire, posts, insulators etc) you have to pay for the cost up

> front but when the county agency meets and you are approved, they cut

> you a check for either 1/2 or 3/4 of the cost of your fencing. Here,

> there is a minimum that they will write a check for so you cost has to

> be " xx " amount of dollars, we also have programs available for

> pasture watering systems and developing pastures. You just have to

> locate the agency in your county. maybe talk to your co. extension

> office? they maybe can steer you in the right direction. yah, yah, i

> know it is " government " but hey, if the money is available, use

it!

> otherwise alec is right: fencing is fairly inexpensive.

> ro

>

[Guest guest]

" People just don't seem to understand that the government actually

> has no money, EXCEPT that which they take from the taxpayers. "

Just thought I'd add some fuel to the fire

SOBERING THOUGHT

This memorable quotation is from Sir Fraser Tytler (1742-1813).

ish jurist and historian, he was widely known in his time and was

professor of Universal History at Edinburgh University in the late

18th century.

The quotation is from the 1801 collection of his lectures.

" A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can

only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves

largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority

always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the

public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses

over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The

average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years.

These nations have progressed through this sequence:

from bondage to spiritual faith;

from spiritual faith to great courage;

from courage to liberty;

from liberty to abundance;

from abundance to selfishness;

from selfishness to complacency;

from complacency to apathy;

from apathy to dependency;

from dependency back again to bondage. "

-Jenn

[Guest guest]

Actually, I think everybody understands that. NO government has money

except that which they take from taxpayers. And the more I keep of

mine, the better. That's the way life is.

But, why " add fuel to the fire " . This is not a political forum!!! Taxes

are nor related to raw dairy. However, fencing and paying for fencing

is.

" jennibluis " wrote:

" People just don't seem to understand that the government actually

has no money, EXCEPT that which they take from the taxpayers. "

Just thought I'd add some fuel to the fire

[Guest guest]

NP!

I have a diversified farm so I have to keep everything in and

everything out. I have pigs, chickens and other poultries and a young

hereford/Angus bull calf named Friday (he was born on Good Friday

this year). However, this fall and spring we are buying goats, sheep

and 2 milking cows. I wanted to start with milking devons but, I

can't afford them yet. Since I live in dairy country (I'm pretty sure

100% only holsteins in this county) I'm going to have to get 2

holsteins instead.

That's why I bought Friday, better meat from the babies. Side note -

he's so sweet. He had to be hand reared on a non-dairy farm because

his mother died in childbirth, she was over 10 though. So he walks

around the farm loose during the day, like a puppy dog. AND I do not

want ANY posts on the risks of " pet " bulls. I KNOW. We do not turn

our backs on him nor do we pet him on the face, only the neck or

back.

Oh, and my farm directly touches 7,000 acres of DNR land so I have to

keep all sorts of wildlife out. We are going to " permentantly " put

red flashing outdoor christmas lights on a huge, centrally located

pine tree. I hope that will help with owls and hawks eating my birds.

We are putting a line of barbed wire on the bottom (keep things from

crawling under) and top (keep things from jumping or climbing over)

of our exterior fenceline (woven wire fence). I also need to find a

source for blaze orange winter jackets for my future sheep & goats so

hunters don't mistake them for deer. Anybody know of a supplier?

" Tramar Farms " wrote:

sorry about the post about solar fencers. i missed the part that you

didn't want to use solar ones. what are you trying to fence in?

what kind of animals?

> From: Charity

>

> Does anybody know if they have this in all states?

>

> Fencing is only inexpensive if you use electric. I am tring for a

> more sustainable farm and do not want to have to rely on the

electric

> company, fossil fuels or even pasture solar panels to keep my

> livestock in their pastures. MY fencing is NOT inexpensive

because I

> have to pay for it up front and not monthly when the electric

company

> sends me a bill for now til eternity. I am trying to get solar

for

> the lights for all of the buildings and heat for the house but,

solar

> fails and animals know that - somehow but, they do.

>

> I'm not even going to go into how I thhink small farmers SHOULD

take

> advantage of any tax credit or grants they can when the

government is

> trying to squeeze us all out of business by doing crap like NAIS!

How

> much is that going to cost me in Wisconsin with no benefits to

> consumers in California?

>

> " Tramar Farms " <tramar@> wrote:

>

> rolyn & alec

> not sure if every state has the exact same named org, but all

> counties in iowa have a soil and water conservation district

office or

> a natural resource and soil conservation office (same office just

> different name) if you sign up and the state /feds have funds

> available, there is EQUIP and REAP funds available for interior

> fencing (wire, posts, insulators etc) you have to pay for the

cost up

> front but when the county agency meets and you are approved, they

cut

> you a check for either 1/2 or 3/4 of the cost of your fencing.

Here,

> there is a minimum that they will write a check for so you cost

has to

> be " xx " amount of dollars, we also have programs available for

> pasture watering systems and developing pastures. You just have

to

> locate the agency in your county. maybe talk to your co.

extension

> office? they maybe can steer you in the right direction. yah,

yah, i

> know it is " government " but hey, if the money is available, use

it!

> otherwise alec is right: fencing is fairly inexpensive.

> ro

[Guest guest]

>> Amen,

Bob. People just don't seem to understand that the government actually> has no

money, EXCEPT that which they take from the taxpayers. And the> goodness or

evilness of the recipient of the redistribution of wealth is> neither here nor

there. When we accept that it is " good " and " right " for the> government to take

from me and give to you, or vice versa, we have lost a> big chunk of what it

means to be a free people.> > > > I believe most farmers work

hard. I have no problem helping them to stay in business and keep our food grown

in the USA. They also pay taxes here. Most Grants are for the politicians to

look good and the locals to look better by getting one. ALL Grants should be

stopped. The ones that check to see if sugar is bad for you or coffee is bad

or.....etc. Corporate welfare at it's worst. If I had a choice, give it to

farmers first, then to the rest. As a registered Democratic, I shudder at what

my party will now GIVE away. nora

[Guest guest]

solar fencers are available although we don't think they are quite as good as the electric ones. our opinion.

USDA Fencing Subsidies

Does anybody know if they have this in all states? Fencing is only inexpensive if you use electric. I am tring for a more sustainable farm and do not want to have to rely on the electric company, fossil fuels or even pasture solar panels to keep my livestock in their pastures. MY fencing is NOT inexpensive because I have to pay for it up front and not monthly when the electric company sends me a bill for now til eternity. I am trying to get solar for the lights for all of the buildings and heat for the house but, solar fails and animals know that - somehow but, they do. I'm not even going to go into how I thhink small farmers SHOULD take advantage of any tax credit or grants they can when the government is trying to squeeze us all out of business by doing crap like NAIS! How much is that going to cost me in Wisconsin with no benefits to consumers in California? "Tramar Farms" <tramar@> wrote:rolyn & alecnot sure if every state has the exact same named org, but all counties in iowa have a soil and water conservation district office ora natural resource and soil conservation office (same office justdifferent name) if you sign up and the state /feds have fundsavailable, there is EQUIP and REAP funds available for interiorfencing (wire, posts, insulators etc) you have to pay for the cost upfront but when the county agency meets and you are approved, they cutyou a check for either 1/2 or 3/4 of the cost of your fencing. Here,there is a minimum that they will write a check for so you cost has tobe "xx" amount of dollars, we also have programs available for pasture watering systems and developing pastures. You just have to locate the agency in your county. maybe talk to your co. extension office? they maybe can steer you in the right direction. yah, yah, i know it is "government" but hey, if the money is available, use it! otherwise alec is right: fencing is fairly inexpensive.ro

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.0/525 - Release Date: 11/9/2006

[Guest guest]

sorry about the post about solar fencers. i missed the part that you didn't want to use solar ones. what are you trying to fence in? what kind of animals?

USDA Fencing Subsidies

Does anybody know if they have this in all states? Fencing is only inexpensive if you use electric. I am tring for a more sustainable farm and do not want to have to rely on the electric company, fossil fuels or even pasture solar panels to keep my livestock in their pastures. MY fencing is NOT inexpensive because I have to pay for it up front and not monthly when the electric company sends me a bill for now til eternity. I am trying to get solar for the lights for all of the buildings and heat for the house but, solar fails and animals know that - somehow but, they do. I'm not even going to go into how I thhink small farmers SHOULD take advantage of any tax credit or grants they can when the government is trying to squeeze us all out of business by doing crap like NAIS! How much is that going to cost me in Wisconsin with no benefits to consumers in California? "Tramar Farms" <tramar@> wrote:rolyn & alecnot sure if every state has the exact same named org, but all counties in iowa have a soil and water conservation district office ora natural resource and soil conservation office (same office justdifferent name) if you sign up and the state /feds have fundsavailable, there is EQUIP and REAP funds available for interiorfencing (wire, posts, insulators etc) you have to pay for the cost upfront but when the county agency meets and you are approved, they cutyou a check for either 1/2 or 3/4 of the cost of your fencing. Here,there is a minimum that they will write a check for so you cost has tobe "xx" amount of dollars, we also have programs available for pasture watering systems and developing pastures. You just have to locate the agency in your county. maybe talk to your co. extension office? they maybe can steer you in the right direction. yah, yah, i know it is "government" but hey, if the money is available, use it! otherwise alec is right: fencing is fairly inexpensive.ro

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.0/525 - Release Date: 11/9/2006

[Guest guest]

Fine...but don't pay for YOUR fencing with tax monsy taken from ME,

which is what a USDA grant is. I'll pay for MY fencing...You pay for

yours...without my tax money.

Bob

>

> " People just don't seem to understand that the government actually

> has no money, EXCEPT that which they take from the taxpayers. "

>

> Just thought I'd add some fuel to the fire

>

[Guest guest]

Excuse me, but

taxes ARE related to raw dairy. Each person who has to pay taxes, each of my

share-owners, myself, you, all have a stake when money is taken away from us

(i.e. higher taxes for subsidies and transfer payments). In addition, farmers

who DO NOT accept the bribe of registering their premises are at a at a

competitive disadvantage in that their fencing costs are not being paid for by

others.

If my neighbor is

choosing to accept the government money in exchange for becoming part of the

propaganda and date accumulation surrounding NAIS, his overhead cost is less and

he can afford to undercut my prices BECAUSE the taxpayers are subsidizing him.

www.majestyfarm.com

" As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does

oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains

seemingly unchanged. And, it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of

change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the

darkness. " Justice O. ,

U.S. Supreme Court (1939-75)

From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Charity

Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006

8:01 AM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Re: USDA

Fencing Subsidies

Actually, I think everybody understands that. NO government has money

except that which they take from taxpayers. And the more I keep of

mine, the better. That's the way life is.

But, why " add fuel to the fire " . This is not a political forum!!!

Taxes

are nor related to raw dairy. However, fencing and paying for fencing

is.

" jennibluis " wrote:

" People just don't seem to understand that the government actually

has no money, EXCEPT that which they take from the taxpayers. "

Just thought I'd add some fuel to the fire

[Guest guest]

It is incredible, Nora,

what the sugar industry gets. The problems w/ subsidies and grants is that once

the ball starts, it is the money and power brokers that keep it going to where

they want it.

And for those who

say, I have not problem with my taxes going to XYZ, my question is “Wouldn’t

it be better and more efficient to NOT have the government decide who you want

to support, and allocate your money for you?

I would rather

donate directly to a cause/charity/business than ask the government to take

from others to give to my folks…

www.majestyfarm.com

" As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does

oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains

seemingly unchanged. And, it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of

change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the

darkness. " Justice O. ,

U.S. Supreme Court (1939-75)

From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of noratbr

Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006

1:18 PM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Re: USDA

Fencing Subsidies

>> Amen, Bob.

People just don't seem to understand that the government actually> has no

money, EXCEPT that which they take from the taxpayers. And the> goodness or

evilness of the recipient of the redistribution of wealth is> neither here

nor there. When we accept that it is " good " and " right " for

the> government to take from me and give to you, or vice versa, we have lost

a> big chunk of what it means to be a free people.> > > >

I believe most farmers work hard. I have no problem helping

them to stay in business and keep our food grown in the USA. They also pay taxes here. Most

Grants are for the politicians to look good and the locals to look better by

getting one. ALL Grants should be stopped. The ones that check to see if sugar

is bad for you or coffee is bad or.....etc. Corporate welfare at it's worst. If

I had a choice, give it to farmers first, then to the rest. As a registered

Democratic, I shudder at what my party will now GIVE away. nora

[Guest guest]

Wait. There was a bribe to register my premises. I thought they just

said " do it or we'll take or kill your animals and/or fine you to

death " . I'm just kidding, that is one government payment that I could

never take!

I actually don't have much of a problem with the PREMISES registration,

its the livestock crap that gets me boiling. The only problem I see

with the premises registration part is that it is really just a baby-

step towards the whole iron fist smashing down on my farm.

" kathryn russell " wrote:

In addition, farmers who DO NOT accept the bribe of registering their

premises

If my neighbor is choosing to accept the government money in exchange

for becoming part of the propaganda and date accumulation surrounding

NAIS, his overhead cost is less and he can afford to undercut my

prices BECAUSE the taxpayers are subsidizing him.