Re: Extended Lactations

[Guest guest]

This past spring and summer she went up over a gallon a day. Right now she

is milking 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon a day. All of our animals milk at least a

305 day lactation (10 months) and frequently go well past that depending on

how much milk we need here. This year with the opening of the dairy I am

trying to spread out the breedings so that the heavier milkers will not

freshen until May 2007. That will mean those that freshened last January and

February will have milked a full 12 months + by the time I dry them off.

Jessi

LHR Manufacturing

Setting The Standard for Portable Milking Machines

http://www.milking-machines.com

Re: Grain Feeding cattle

How much milk do you get a day? I had a goat that went for 12 months

and was pretty proud put you've got me beat by a lot!

Belinda

[Guest guest]

You know, that is sad. I've had ADGA judges lament to me that 'the

show ring determines type' on a dairy goat, hence the show ring is

rewarding animals that 'may' not be able to live without human

assistance- c-sections because they are not structually correct enough

to get the kids out safely, too level so the does cannot drain their

birth fluids, etc....

I am looking into the British style of goat keeping- as you know, I

have Golden Guernseys, so I get the BGS publications- and several

things stick out to me about the humaneness of this style of

management.

First, as a rule they do not breed yearlings, but keep them till they

freshen as 2 yr. olds, calling them 'goatlings' instead of dry

yearlings. Second, they value the lactation in the show ring- to get

the full championships and milk stars, she must milk as well as show-

UK shows include milkouts and weighing that milk. Third, they do not

mark down for a doe running through on a second or subsequent

lactation!

People seem to keep less goats in the UK as well- most I see have a

few- like 6-10- and that's it. Some have more, but as the laws are,

you cannot do things like disbudding or castration without the help of

a vet. The polled gene is highly valued.

I'll be cullng Saanens based on milkiness this coming season and

biting the bullet to only have the ones that are milking 8-10 lbs. or

more. Hard to do and keep up with a bloodline or beloved does that may

not milk like their genetics say they should. To be sure, that 6-8 lb.

doe will feed a family, but I am going from show ring standard to *my*

standards now- if she milks well, keeps her body condition easily and

has a great personality, she stays, and if she is also show quality,

that's great too. Next year, we'll look at length of lactation as

culling factors as well as I am also selecting for those that may run

through for 2-3 lactations.

With all the NAIS stuff, it will pay to keep the ones that do this

sort of thing and to use DHI and Linear Appraisal instead of the show

ring as a guideline for how my herd is doing. Stay at home-bodies =

less chance for disaster if you are out at a show and something nasty

comes down. Not to mention health issues.

Betsy

Cosby, TN

[Guest guest]

Our 7yo Jersey is 16 months into her last lacation and we're getting about 3 gallons a day milking by hand.

Polly

[Guest guest]

For us how long they milk depends on pregnancy. I had a Jersey that didn't

catch for a long time, she got very ill and it set her back, she milked till

two months before the calf and that ended up being almost 2 years. Had she

not been pregnant I think she could have gone forever. She kinda settled

into a two gallon a day happy mode. Her mom was the same, genetics again,

and all our goats are the same. After summer grass is done they drop in

milk and sit at that level till about 2 months prekidding. If they aren't

bred they will pick up a bit the next summer and carry on. Terrible animals

to dry off unless bred. Right now our one American Alpine is milking a half

gallon a day and still feeding a doeling from Feb/06 that I haven't got

around to weaning yet. She had triplets this year and is now rebred for

spring.

Debbie Chikousky

Manitoba, Canada

gdchik@...

http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

[Guest guest]

The percentage of those who are breeding only (and I mean only)

for the show ring is very, very, very small. It's pretty self

limiting to be that shortsighted.

They are vastly overshadowed by those out there who are just

breeding basically with no concept of correct type or of

production... that's the majority of ADGA members who are just

breeding for color, long ears, no ears, or whatever, but it sure

ain't dairy personality, production or type! Too many use a buck of

totally inferior quality and all he has going for him is that he can

get a doe pregnant.

And, there are always those who do breed for type/production and

base the reality of that upon LA and DHIR. We have always been THE

minority and we always will.

My animals have level rumps and backs and no problems kidding

or in draining afterbirth. You can't have that nice well attached

udder if the doe has a ski slope rump. With steep rumps you

literally don't have the area needed to make that tight attachment if

pelvis is tilted.

The production stats of a UK goat and a USA goat is not that

different. Overall type is not that different, either. And, yes, I

like the GG, in the UK they are nice goats. But, too many in the USA

are using vastly inferior does to cross with the GG bucks and are

going to have a lot of cleaning up later to get back to the quality

needed to make it in a commercial dairy setting. The same thing

happened with the Boers when everyone with dairy goats sent a cull to

be a 'meat' goat for crossing with the Boer. What should be

happening is the best does of a breed should be used to cross with

the GG.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

[Guest guest]

Great genetics like that are a double edged sword though. She is an

awesome milker but leaves no offspring to carry them along. Or, is it

really the management and not the goat or cow?

>

> Numerous times I've had people ask me about not milking a doe to

allow her to " rest " . They want to breed her then dry her up right

away after she kids, sometimes even when they need the milk. I tell

them the best way to rest her is not to breed her but to keep

milking. Dropping to once daily milking after she's past her peak

will be sufficient to allow the doe to put on condition and keep milk

coming in for family use.

> More does die from pregnancy/kidding complications than from being

milked, as long as forage and feed are supplied according to the

doe's needs while she's lactating.

> Really, it's mostly newbies that ask this, and I think what they

really want is justification for not milking as they've decided it's

too much trouble. I'm not keen to let them off the hook.

> BTW, the longest lactation I know of for a dairy goat was for an

old doe belonging to a friend. She kidded at age two and then milked

for 6 years without being freshened! It just doesn't get better than

that!

>

> OakMoon Farm

> Bakersville, NC

>

[Guest guest]

It can be both.

The genetics providing the 'will to milk' has to be there, as well

as the correct conformation throughout to support that level of

production. You got to have a mammary system that can substain

healthy milk production. And, you have to have the personality to

milk- calm on the milkstand, willing to eat anything that don't eat

her first. And, she has got to be a STRONG doe with bone and body

capacity for a good set of lungs, heart, and digestive system on

excellent feet and legs.

But, the management also plays a vital roll. Statistics prove

that a doe who fails to freshen as a yearling never does reach the

level of production over her lifetime as her sister who does freshen

as a yearling. Same said for the doe bred to a low production buck

line like a meat goat buck. And, one of the worst 'sins' is to

freshen a doe and then dry her up in less than ten months.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

> >

> > Numerous times I've had people ask me about not milking a doe to

> allow her to " rest " . They want to breed her then dry her up right

> away after she kids, sometimes even when they need the milk. I

tell

> them the best way to rest her is not to breed her but to keep

> milking. Dropping to once daily milking after she's past her peak

> will be sufficient to allow the doe to put on condition and keep

milk

> coming in for family use.

> > More does die from pregnancy/kidding complications than from

being

> milked, as long as forage and feed are supplied according to the

> doe's needs while she's lactating.

> > Really, it's mostly newbies that ask this, and I think what they

> really want is justification for not milking as they've decided

it's

> too much trouble. I'm not keen to let them off the hook.

> > BTW, the longest lactation I know of for a dairy goat was for an

> old doe belonging to a friend. She kidded at age two and then

milked

> for 6 years without being freshened! It just doesn't get better

than

> that!

> >

> > OakMoon Farm

> > Bakersville, NC

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ummmm, that 'is' what is happening with the GG- most folks 'are' using

EX 90 does or does of very high quality as their IR foundation

animals. Most folks 'are' also using the top quality AI GG bucks in

addition to what live bucks there are as well. Unless one knows what

is 'really' going on first hand from the inside, it makes no sense to

put it down because of what someone else may have said who isn't in

there actually doing it. One works with what one has.

Their milk components are vastly different from the US breeds- Joan

Stump in PA is on DHI test and the butterfat she is experiencing is

equal to or in some cases better than a Nubian's in her first and

second crosses- you do lose udder consistancy in the first cross as a

rule- larger teats (more easily milked) and low/loose rears, much like

the Obies did when they first were introduced- look how far they have

gotten in 10-15 yrs. As a population, they do have a helluva fore

udder and the will to milk.....

I'd much rather have that extended lactation running through with

fewer goats and keep the health of the animal superior than worry abt.

too many to feed properly or having to sell for less when winter is

coming and time constraints mess with herd management preferences.

Healthier does, better grown out kids and less work, as well as fewer

worries abt. extra stock to deal with as most of us will hold on to a

doe or kid till the 'right' place is found-

Finding those bloodlines that will give you a few does to start with

that give you that big boned doe with the will to milk right through

is the key and then dealing with the bell curve that follows when

breeding for several years- or a cow from a consistant herd that

routinely milks through for 4, 5 and even 6 yrs.- truly the dairy-

person's 401K, so to speak.

Betsy

Cosby, TN

[Guest guest]

There are some big goat dairies that do run through some of their does-

I've noticed that at Redwood Hills, there are some AWESOME Saanen

does that run through routinely and have equally as awesomwe milk

records. Of course, when these does are bred, their offspring

generally get snapped up quickly.

Betsy

cosby, TN

[Guest guest]

What I have seen in Eastern TN in the GG sired kids were that quite a

few were from just so so does and it showed. And, I do understand

having to work with what you got. But, for example a so so Oberhasli

doe, she needs to be bred to an OBIE not a GG.

And, I cannot support having to keep a doe kid of any dairy breed

until two years old to kid out. Harvey Considine would roll in his

grave to hear such, too. His words were that you might as well keep a

cow if you can't get your goats kidding as yearlings and on to long

lived, productive lives.

Lower production of milk always translates into high solids and

butterfat.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

>

> Ummmm, that 'is' what is happening with the GG- most folks 'are'

using

> EX 90 does or does of very high quality as their IR foundation

> animals. Most folks 'are' also using the top quality AI GG bucks in

> addition to what live bucks there are as well. Unless one knows

what

> is 'really' going on first hand from the inside, it makes no sense

to

> put it down because of what someone else may have said who isn't in

> there actually doing it. One works with what one has.

>

> Their milk components are vastly different from the US breeds- Joan

> Stump in PA is on DHI test and the butterfat she is experiencing is

> equal to or in some cases better than a Nubian's in her first and

> second crosses- you do lose udder consistancy in the first cross as

a

> rule- larger teats (more easily milked) and low/loose rears, much

like

> the Obies did when they first were introduced- look how far they

have

> gotten in 10-15 yrs. As a population, they do have a helluva fore

> udder and the will to milk.....

>

> I'd much rather have that extended lactation running through with

> fewer goats and keep the health of the animal superior than worry

abt.

> too many to feed properly or having to sell for less when winter is

> coming and time constraints mess with herd management preferences.

> Healthier does, better grown out kids and less work, as well as

fewer

> worries abt. extra stock to deal with as most of us will hold on to

a

> doe or kid till the 'right' place is found-

>

> Finding those bloodlines that will give you a few does to start

with

> that give you that big boned doe with the will to milk right

through

> is the key and then dealing with the bell curve that follows when

> breeding for several years- or a cow from a consistant herd that

> routinely milks through for 4, 5 and even 6 yrs.- truly the dairy-

> person's 401K, so to speak.

>

> Betsy

> Cosby, TN

>