Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 We don't have cows so I might not be correct in this but.......when I buy a bail of hay for the goats it's 50 pounds. So you are looking at 2 bails a day for 2 cows then. I think that one of those BIG rolls would be more cost effective. For my goats I buy a & Alfalfa bail which runs me 15.00 a bail. The regular coastal hay, which is just for bedding for my goats is 6.00 a bail. From what I understand hay is expensive here in Florida so my could probably get it cheaper. I don't know if cows need a certain kind of hay or what. I have my does on T & A because they are pregnant and T & A has a higher protein. Hay is not just cut grass. It's actual hay and there are a variety of kinds, coastal, , Alfalfa, Oat, etc..... I know a friend in PA that grows and bails their own hay. They keep what they need for their animals for the winter and they sell the extra. I imagine in the Winter you will need to supplement with hay since grass is scares. a Hay, grain, silage? I'm having a hard time wrapping my city brain around this! Our goalis to own strictly grass-fed cows. However, as that may not bepossible, I need to define and understand the alternatives...Isn't hay just cut grass? I could purchase this? Couldn't we harvestour own hay and store? What is the average price of hay? Iunderstand that the average cow eats between 30-45 lbs of hay per day?So, for two cows I'd need approximately a ton of hay per month?Which is more expensive...hay or grain? Wouldn't you need less grainto hay as grain is more dense (or is it just me that's dense? ha!) Sooo...couldn't we just feed our cows grass in the spring and hay therest of the year, without supplimenting with grains? Thanx,robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Hay is just cut grass, yes and no. Some folks plant wheat, oats, rye, alfalfa, etc in a hay field to give a better/higher quality hay. You can purchase hay. Normally in square (hard to find around here) or round bales, all in different sizes. You can harvest your own if you have enough land to graze and harvest at the same time. You'd have to factor in the cost of hay equipment and be able to run it. Don't know where you are but around here you'll get promises of folks coming to " do your hay " but when the time comes they are too busy. Don't count on the help in hay season, they want their own hay done first. Our beef girls and boys do fine on just hay. In mid-winter we treat them to some feed but the amount per animal is so small it is just a treat. We've never not given grain during milking so our milk cows have always had grain and hay. Don't think you are dense at all, it's good to get it all figured out before you get the animals. I'd suggest you visiting more than just a few places to see how the animals are kept, what they look like, what they are fed. Most farmers will have some down time in the winter and be more than happy to explain what they do, gives us a chance to brag a bit. Belinda > I'm having a hard time wrapping my city brain around this! Our goal > is to own strictly grass-fed cows. However, as that may not be > possible, I need to define and understand the alternatives... > > Isn't hay just cut grass? I could purchase this? Couldn't we harvest > our own hay and store? What is the average price of hay? I > understand that the average cow eats between 30-45 lbs of hay per day? > So, for two cows I'd need approximately a ton of hay per month? > > Which is more expensive...hay or grain? Wouldn't you need less grain > to hay as grain is more dense (or is it just me that's dense? ha!) > > Sooo...couldn't we just feed our cows grass in the spring and hay the > rest of the year, without supplimenting with grains? > > Thanx, > robin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 You need a lot of education. What you need to do is find your county ag extension office and through them find some local people who raise hay. The cost of hauling is a big chunk of change for hay, so the closer you buy the better off. More than likely you are going to be better off buying hay. The equipment, time, land, risk, expertise to grow your own does not save you any money. If your hay gets wet, you got bad hay, too. Being a grass farmer is a full time job. NOTE, a lot of folks think they will hire it done. Let me tell you the reality of THAT- in general the folks who are being hired will do their hay first and everyone elses hay first before they ever get around to doing yours. The key to having good hay is getting it up at the precise time it needs to be done. A lot of the horse people can also educate you about hay, too. Even though you have cow, you might want to find the local dairy goat club as they too can sure educate you about hay quality. In general when purchasing ask for a good 'horse' quality hay. Otherwise you end up with nasty 'cow' stuff that is not fit for ANY animal. Hay is one of those things you really do get what you pay for and there is not any 'savings' in buying a cheap hay. Hay is NOT just cut grass!!!! It is an art to get GOOD hay up in good order!!! You have to have the hay fields correctly managed for things like fertility, pH, and species of foilage growing. The difference between a good hay and a bad hay can be just a matter of TEN days time in when it was cut. I can't even begin to explain it to you, but if you will find local folks and go pick their brain about it you will learn. And, not only is hay not cut grass, but GRASS also not just grass either! I cringe to hear all the newbies who think they know something about hay or grass....they are so naive! In general you are going to need more hay if it's lower in quality. Something to also understand is that milk fever is a management disease caused by your feeding a hay with high potassium levels that last six weeks of gestation. All afalfa, all first cutting grass hay and any hay that's been heavily manured can be way too high in potassium to be fed to your close up cows/goats. You use your loose mineral mix to balance your hay. If you are feeding a high calcium hay like alfalfa you feed a mineral mix with a 1 to 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. If feeding a grass hay which is lower in calcium you feed a 2 to 1 mineral mix. You ALWAYS need to balance you entire ration so that it will be an overall 2 to 1 ratio or you risk catastrophic bone/reproductive problems. You also use the grain to overall balance the ration against the hay. If you are feeding a really good high protein alfalfa or a really nice 2nd or 3rd cutting of grass hay (some can rival the protein content of alfalfa!) then you need a lower protein grain mix. In general a first cutting hay of either alfalfa or grass will be higher fiber, lower in protein and energy than the later cuttings. You will have better returns on the money and time spent if you try to get the best hay you can find and afford. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge, TN > > I'm having a hard time wrapping my city brain around this! Our goal > is to own strictly grass-fed cows. However, as that may not be > possible, I need to define and understand the alternatives... > > Isn't hay just cut grass? I could purchase this? Couldn't we harvest > our own hay and store? What is the average price of hay? I > understand that the average cow eats between 30-45 lbs of hay per day? > So, for two cows I'd need approximately a ton of hay per month? > > Which is more expensive...hay or grain? Wouldn't you need less grain > to hay as grain is more dense (or is it just me that's dense? ha!) > > Sooo...couldn't we just feed our cows grass in the spring and hay the > rest of the year, without supplimenting with grains? > > Thanx, > robin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 > > Hay is just cut grass, yes and no. Some folks plant wheat, oats, rye, > alfalfa, etc in a hay field to give a better/higher quality hay. > > You can purchase hay. Normally in square (hard to find around here) or > round bales, all in different sizes. You can harvest your own if you > have enough land to graze and harvest at the same time. You'd have to > factor in the cost of hay equipment and be able to run it. Don't know > where you are but around here you'll get promises of folks coming to > " do your hay " but when the time comes they are too busy. Don't count > on the help in hay season, they want their own hay done first. > > Our beef girls and boys do fine on just hay. In mid-winter we treat > them to some feed but the amount per animal is so small it is just a > treat. We've never not given grain during milking so our milk cows > have always had grain and hay. > > Don't think you are dense at all, it's good to get it all figured out > before you get the animals. I'd suggest you visiting more than just a > few places to see how the animals are kept, what they look like, what > they are fed. Most farmers will have some down time in the winter and > be more than happy to explain what they do, gives us a chance to brag > a bit. > > Belinda Thanx so much Belinda. We will be going to our third dairy farm (two hours away) on Tuesday to purchase milk from a farmer that has three Jersey/Guernsey mix. He's drank milk from his own cow all his life! I'm looking forward to asking him a slew of questions:) Blessings, robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 > > You need a lot of education. What you need to do is find your > county ag extension office and through them find some local people > who raise hay. The cost of hauling is a big chunk of change for hay, > so the closer you buy the better off. > More than likely you are going to be better off buying hay. The > equipment, time, land, risk, expertise to grow your own does not save > you any money. If your hay gets wet, you got bad hay, too. Being a > grass farmer is a full time job. NOTE, a lot of folks think they > will hire it done. Let me tell you the reality of THAT- in general > the folks who are being hired will do their hay first and everyone > elses hay first before they ever get around to doing yours. The key > to having good hay is getting it up at the precise time it needs to > be done. > A lot of the horse people can also educate you about hay, too. > Even though you have cow, you might want to find the local dairy goat > club as they too can sure educate you about hay quality. In general > when purchasing ask for a good 'horse' quality hay. Otherwise you > end up with nasty 'cow' stuff that is not fit for ANY animal. Hay is > one of those things you really do get what you pay for and there is > not any 'savings' in buying a cheap hay. > Hay is NOT just cut grass!!!! It is an art to get GOOD hay up in > good order!!! You have to have the hay fields correctly managed for > things like fertility, pH, and species of foilage growing. The > difference between a good hay and a bad hay can be just a matter of > TEN days time in when it was cut. I can't even begin to explain it > to you, but if you will find local folks and go pick their brain > about it you will learn. > And, not only is hay not cut grass, but GRASS also not just grass > either! I cringe to hear all the newbies who think they know > something about hay or grass....they are so naive! > In general you are going to need more hay if it's lower in > quality. Something to also understand is that milk fever is a > management disease caused by your feeding a hay with high potassium > levels that last six weeks of gestation. All afalfa, all first > cutting grass hay and any hay that's been heavily manured can be way > too high in potassium to be fed to your close up cows/goats. > You use your loose mineral mix to balance your hay. If you are > feeding a high calcium hay like alfalfa you feed a mineral mix with a > 1 to 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. If feeding a grass hay which is > lower in calcium you feed a 2 to 1 mineral mix. You ALWAYS need to > balance you entire ration so that it will be an overall 2 to 1 ratio > or you risk catastrophic bone/reproductive problems. > You also use the grain to overall balance the ration against > the hay. If you are feeding a really good high protein alfalfa or a > really nice 2nd or 3rd cutting of grass hay (some can rival the > protein content of alfalfa!) then you need a lower protein grain > mix. > In general a first cutting hay of either alfalfa or grass will > be higher fiber, lower in protein and energy than the later cuttings. > You will have better returns on the money and time spent if you try > to get the best hay you can find and afford. > Donna > Safehaven Nubians > Dandridge, TN Thank-you Donna. Much to learn! I have read several books. It just takes awhile to get through my head. Blessings, robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 WOW! I'm glad I don't pay FL prices. I pay $1.15 for 40 Lb bales of oat straw, its for bedding but everything eats it as well. And I pay up to $2 a 30 Lb bale of 3rd cutting prime-pure alfalfa. Other hays go down from there. Now, I have paid up to twice this amount but, now I buy it directly from the farmer. YES you can pasture during green months and hay during white months. DO NOT use straight alfalfa with cows or hey will bloat and possibly die. We mix the rich alfalfa with the straw to solve this problem. We would prefer to use 1st cutting alfalfa because that tends to have grass in it and that also solves the problem. However, this farmer stores all of his straw & hay inside (which you DO want to find) and the 1st cutting is on the bottom and the rd on the top, so I get to improvise. With goats it would be the opposite you do want the third cutting and not the first. As for grain, I think the vast majority in here would agree that you do not want to solely grain feed your animals, even if it was magically cheaper. HORRIBLE for ruminants. There is a mixed bag in here that says a small amount is ok and the other half says none is best. You can read the debates for yourself. Either way, always give your cows or goats as much hay as they can eat. Of course, if you have goats - you probably wouldn't pasture because they hate grass and you probably would run out of weeds, brush and trees for them to eat - so you'd have to give them hay all year. As for 30-45 Lbs a day of hay - I don't remember cows eating that much hay. Mine eat 1/3 - 2/3 of a bale a day each - and small square bales. (There's small square like mine, large square like was mentioned, small round and large round - you will need some sort of front end loader to deal with round bales but they are cheaper). Did I miss anything? > > We don't have cows so I might not be correct in this but.......when I buy a bail of hay for the goats it's 50 pounds. So you are looking at 2 bails a day for 2 cows then. I think that one of those BIG rolls would be more cost effective. For my goats I buy a & Alfalfa bail which runs me 15.00 a bail. The regular coastal hay, which is just for bedding for my goats is 6.00 a bail. From what I understand hay is expensive here in Florida so my could probably get it cheaper. I don't know if cows need a certain kind of hay or what. I have my does on T & A because they are pregnant and T & A has a higher protein. > > Hay is not just cut grass. It's actual hay and there are a variety of kinds, coastal, , Alfalfa, Oat, etc..... > > I know a friend in PA that grows and bails their own hay. They keep what they need for their animals for the winter and they sell the extra. I imagine in the Winter you will need to supplement with hay since grass is scares. > > a > > Hay, grain, silage? > > > I'm having a hard time wrapping my city brain around this! Our goal > is to own strictly grass-fed cows. However, as that may not be > possible, I need to define and understand the alternatives... > > Isn't hay just cut grass? I could purchase this? Couldn't we harvest > our own hay and store? What is the average price of hay? I > understand that the average cow eats between 30-45 lbs of hay per day? > So, for two cows I'd need approximately a ton of hay per month? > > Which is more expensive...hay or grain? Wouldn't you need less grain > to hay as grain is more dense (or is it just me that's dense? ha!) > > Sooo...couldn't we just feed our cows grass in the spring and hay the > rest of the year, without supplimenting with grains? > > Thanx, > robin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 You are welcome. It's a real lifelong process, that's a fact. VBG The extension office and agricultural colleges/university systems in each state offer a wealth of information. They have a lot of educational classes with most being in the fall and winter. Usually the spring and summer are too busy with the reality of farming for much of anything else. One of the best resources I found has been Hoard's Dairyman articles. You could probably lay your hands on back issues from any large animal 'cow' vet or any dairy operation. While geared towards commercial operations, it still has a lot of good info in it. Another good resource has been many of the horse magazines which have very detailed articles (with good pictures of hay)on nutrition. I just raid the archives of my friends who are horse nutz and borrow what I need. Horses are not ruminants, so the actual managment is different. But, the nutritional values of the feedstuffs is the same, regardless of species. Also, find a rumenant nutrtionest and consult him/her. I put everything on paper about my management as well as the goals I have for each animal or group of animals. I also keep track of body condition scores, milk production, body weight, etc... This has really helped me over the years to gauge how everyone is doing. And, this isn't real time consuming or complicated, just a couple of pages of notes. For example on a kid this would be weight at birth, then each month I would tape each one (in large groups you could do 10% or 6 animals, which ever is larger number) to see how they are growing. My goal is a minimum of 10 pounds per kid per month. On a calf I would do the same thing, only use a tape on the coronet band as soon after birth as possible to determine how much the calf weighed. Then a heart girth measurement each month will tell me how much it weighs. Very simple record keeping that can sure help you work towards your goals. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge, TN > > > > You need a lot of education. What you need to do is find your > > county ag extension office and through them find some local people > > who raise hay. The cost of hauling is a big chunk of change for hay, > > so the closer you buy the better off. > > More than likely you are going to be better off buying hay. The > > equipment, time, land, risk, expertise to grow your own does not save > > you any money. If your hay gets wet, you got bad hay, too. Being a > > grass farmer is a full time job. NOTE, a lot of folks think they > > will hire it done. Let me tell you the reality of THAT- in general > > the folks who are being hired will do their hay first and everyone > > elses hay first before they ever get around to doing yours. The key > > to having good hay is getting it up at the precise time it needs to > > be done. > > A lot of the horse people can also educate you about hay, too. > > Even though you have cow, you might want to find the local dairy goat > > club as they too can sure educate you about hay quality. In general > > when purchasing ask for a good 'horse' quality hay. Otherwise you > > end up with nasty 'cow' stuff that is not fit for ANY animal. Hay is > > one of those things you really do get what you pay for and there is > > not any 'savings' in buying a cheap hay. > > Hay is NOT just cut grass!!!! It is an art to get GOOD hay up in > > good order!!! You have to have the hay fields correctly managed for > > things like fertility, pH, and species of foilage growing. The > > difference between a good hay and a bad hay can be just a matter of > > TEN days time in when it was cut. I can't even begin to explain it > > to you, but if you will find local folks and go pick their brain > > about it you will learn. > > And, not only is hay not cut grass, but GRASS also not just grass > > either! I cringe to hear all the newbies who think they know > > something about hay or grass....they are so naive! > > In general you are going to need more hay if it's lower in > > quality. Something to also understand is that milk fever is a > > management disease caused by your feeding a hay with high potassium > > levels that last six weeks of gestation. All afalfa, all first > > cutting grass hay and any hay that's been heavily manured can be way > > too high in potassium to be fed to your close up cows/goats. > > You use your loose mineral mix to balance your hay. If you are > > feeding a high calcium hay like alfalfa you feed a mineral mix with a > > 1 to 1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. If feeding a grass hay which is > > lower in calcium you feed a 2 to 1 mineral mix. You ALWAYS need to > > balance you entire ration so that it will be an overall 2 to 1 ratio > > or you risk catastrophic bone/reproductive problems. > > You also use the grain to overall balance the ration against > > the hay. If you are feeding a really good high protein alfalfa or a > > really nice 2nd or 3rd cutting of grass hay (some can rival the > > protein content of alfalfa!) then you need a lower protein grain > > mix. > > In general a first cutting hay of either alfalfa or grass will > > be higher fiber, lower in protein and energy than the later cuttings. > > You will have better returns on the money and time spent if you try > > to get the best hay you can find and afford. > > Donna > > Safehaven Nubians > > Dandridge, TN > > Thank-you Donna. Much to learn! I have read several books. It just > takes awhile to get through my head. > > Blessings, > robin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Well you wouldn't want to pay Texas prices either especially in Houston. We are paying $6.00 a bail for coastal. We just got bahia for $4.00 a bail but that is a rare find. Wish I could get prices like you guys get. Best Regardds, > > WOW! I'm glad I don't pay FL prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 I am getting alfalfa rounds for $45 a bale- good, big 1200 lb. bales, that's over a ton for $90- and also the big 5x5 Vermeer bales of grass hay for abt. $10 a bale- The problem for many folks locally is that we had a lot of rain and a) hay is in short supply, it is lesser quality because it could not cure out correctly. I passed a field yesterday and there was hay down! Betsy Cosby, TN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Also, I'd point out that it is vitally important to have someone planned ahead of time to take over milking in an emergency so you don't wind up with dry animals. In the last year and a half I've been in the hospital twice with heart attacks and once with burns from a propane explosion, and for 10 months of that time I was running things here at Thornberry Village on my own. Had it not been for some great neighbors and customers/friends, I'd have lost a years production while in the hospital. Plan ahead...surprises/emergencies DO happen. Bob > > You sound like a wise woman Robin. I figure you'll be fine. Ask him > how hard it is to find folks to milk in case the entire family wants > to go away together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 The extension, university system is the last place you will ever find info on grass fed farming practices. They are a joke. If you want real info find a farmer that has the knowledge or look to publications like Graze or the Stockman Grass Farmer. You do have to pay for them, but they are full of useful information. Hoard's dairyman comes free in my mailbox. I wouldn't pay 10 cents for it. The university system is still trying to discredit any form of decent agriculture. There may be an odd study here and there on grazing or organic, but 99% of what they do is push conventional poison ag. An extension agent from north of me stopped by last winter to see my setup. He said they have to be very careful about promoting grazing or they will lose their jobs. Keep in mind that 25% of WI dairies graze and 50% of all startups do. Everything I do on my farm is opposite what those clowns have pushed. It's called common sense. How could anyone put faith in an entity that pushed meat and bone, blood, fat, chicken crap, BGH, DDT, GMO, confinement, etc., etc.,? They still promote deadly poisons even though the warning signs are all around us. Think of all the " safe " chemicals they pushed that are now banned!!! Up here in the rolling hills of northern WI, the answer now is to plant every available acre to corn and beans and feed lots of distillery waste from the ethanol plants to the cows. If they have the answers, why are most of the farmers that followed their advice now gone? The grazing dairies have the highest profit and job satisfaction 10 years running in a study comparing conventional/confinement and grazing dairies. Where's the university? Still pushing 1000 cow dairies! I can't wait for the day when the whole system can be scrapped. Think of the tax savings. Think of the health and vitality when all of ag is producing quality nutrient dense food. Albrecht had many answers decades ago that would have helped all, but he lost his job at the U. of MO because he wouldn't push chemical ag. For 50+ years we've been going down the wrong path. Time for a change!!! Cheyenne > VBG The extension office and agricultural colleges/university systems > in each state offer a wealth of information. They have a lot of > educational classes with most being in the fall and winter. Usually > the spring and summer are too busy with the reality of farming for > much of anything else. > One of the best resources I found has been Hoard's Dairyman > articles. You could probably lay your hands on back issues from any > large animal 'cow' vet or any dairy operation. While geared towards > commercial operations, it still has a lot of good info in it. > Another good resource has been many of the horse magazines which > have very detailed articles (with good pictures of hay)on nutrition. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Well said. I wondered if anybody had any luck with the extension or local university, we haven't. Perhaps what Donna means is that they have a good deal of information that should be used as a bad example, or what not to do. :-) Belinda > The extension, university system is the last place you will ever > find info on grass fed farming practices. They are a joke. If you > want real info find a farmer that has the knowledge or look to > publications like Graze or the Stockman Grass Farmer. You do have to > pay for them, but they are full of useful information. Hoard's > dairyman comes free in my mailbox. I wouldn't pay 10 cents for it. > > The university system is still trying to discredit any form of > decent agriculture. There may be an odd study here and there on > grazing or organic, but 99% of what they do is push conventional > poison ag. An extension agent from north of me stopped by last winter > to see my setup. He said they have to be very careful about promoting > grazing or they will lose their jobs. Keep in mind that 25% of WI > dairies graze and 50% of all startups do. > > Everything I do on my farm is opposite what those clowns have > pushed. It's called common sense. How could anyone put faith in an > entity that pushed meat and bone, blood, fat, chicken crap, BGH, DDT, > GMO, confinement, etc., etc.,? They still promote deadly poisons even > though the warning signs are all around us. Think of all the " safe " > chemicals they pushed that are now banned!!! Up here in the rolling > hills of northern WI, the answer now is to plant every available acre > to corn and beans and feed lots of distillery waste from the ethanol > plants to the cows. > > If they have the answers, why are most of the farmers that followed > their advice now gone? The grazing dairies have the highest profit > and job satisfaction 10 years running in a study comparing > conventional/confinement and grazing dairies. Where's the university? > Still pushing 1000 cow dairies! > > I can't wait for the day when the whole system can be scrapped. > Think of the tax savings. Think of the health and vitality when all of > ag is producing quality nutrient dense food. Albrecht had many > answers decades ago that would have helped all, but he lost his job at > the U. of MO because he wouldn't push chemical ag. For 50+ years > we've been going down the wrong path. Time for a change!!! > > Cheyenne > > > > > > VBG The extension office and agricultural colleges/university systems > > in each state offer a wealth of information. They have a lot of > > educational classes with most being in the fall and winter. Usually > > the spring and summer are too busy with the reality of farming for > > much of anything else. > > One of the best resources I found has been Hoard's Dairyman > > articles. You could probably lay your hands on back issues from any > > large animal 'cow' vet or any dairy operation. While geared towards > > commercial operations, it still has a lot of good info in it. > > Another good resource has been many of the horse magazines which > > have very detailed articles (with good pictures of hay)on nutrition. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 No, Belinda that is not what I mean. I have found the university and extension service to be of great help in scoping things out for me. They are not the end all, nor are they the entire picture... and they NEVER have claimed to be, either. But, they are good networks to become involved with in finding out what you need to know. I can't say why you have had such poor experiences. Pretty much all of mine have been very encouraging and very helpful. When we were considering animal handling facilities for our cattle it was the extension agent who hauled me around to several producers to inspect homemade and storebought facilities. Without his help I would have not known how to set up and make use of a cow's natural inclinations. And, I love nothing better than going to the Pendergrass Agriculatural Library to pick through all they have on cheesemaking, nutrition, genetics, bacteriology, virology and such. I have learned an awful lot from doing this regularly. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge, TN > > > > > VBG The extension office and agricultural colleges/university systems > > > in each state offer a wealth of information. They have a lot of > > > educational classes with most being in the fall and winter. Usually > > > the spring and summer are too busy with the reality of farming for > > > much of anything else. > > > One of the best resources I found has been Hoard's Dairyman > > > articles. You could probably lay your hands on back issues from any > > > large animal 'cow' vet or any dairy operation. While geared towards > > > commercial operations, it still has a lot of good info in it. > > > Another good resource has been many of the horse magazines which > > > have very detailed articles (with good pictures of hay)on nutrition. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 I prefer going to Rugby and looking through their library of 100-200 year old cookbooks. Our extension agent, or one of them (I think there have been 4 or 5 in the last 8 years), told us there was no way to grow any sort of crop without chemicals to kill those weeds. I could go on and on about that sort of thing. The only thing they've done for me is write a letter to verify my growing the things I was selling at the Cookeville farmers market. Belinda > No, Belinda that is not what I mean. > I have found the university and extension service to be of great > help in scoping things out for me. They are not the end all, nor are > they the entire picture... and they NEVER have claimed to be, > either. But, they are good networks to become involved with in > finding out what you need to know. I can't say why you have had such > poor experiences. Pretty much all of mine have been very encouraging > and very helpful. > When we were considering animal handling facilities for our cattle > it was the extension agent who hauled me around to several producers > to inspect homemade and storebought facilities. Without his help I > would have not known how to set up and make use of a cow's natural > inclinations. > And, I love nothing better than going to the Pendergrass > Agriculatural Library to pick through all they have on cheesemaking, > nutrition, genetics, bacteriology, virology and such. I have learned > an awful lot from doing this regularly. > Donna > Safehaven Nubians > Dandridge, TN > > > > > > > > > > > > > VBG The extension office and agricultural colleges/university > systems > > > > in each state offer a wealth of information. They have a lot > of > > > > educational classes with most being in the fall and winter. > Usually > > > > the spring and summer are too busy with the reality of farming > for > > > > much of anything else. > > > > One of the best resources I found has been Hoard's Dairyman > > > > articles. You could probably lay your hands on back issues > from any > > > > large animal 'cow' vet or any dairy operation. While geared > towards > > > > commercial operations, it still has a lot of good info in it. > > > > Another good resource has been many of the horse magazines > which > > > > have very detailed articles (with good pictures of hay)on > nutrition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Here is an interesting aside- I keep getting told, by a UT extension agent no less, that UT ag. college staff will NEVER back raw milk sales in TN, they are totally against it. However, the UT ag. college staff WILL drink raw milk and do what they do on their own farms, but will also do what they can to never allow raw milk sales in TN. Betsy Cosby, TN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 hi robin and all we prefer to use small square bales to feed the cows hay. we have found that with the lg rounds they tend to waste too much by trying to get to the good stuff inside. with the sm squ. you give them what they can eat at a time. as said b-4, they are easier to handle. we save the lg rounds for corn stalk bales and use those for bedding. we have the equipment to bale sm sq ourselves and do so. the lg bales we hire out. but then again we also have the equipment to move them around. ro Hay, grain, silage? I'm having a hard time wrapping my city brain around this! Our goalis to own strictly grass-fed cows. However, as that may not bepossible, I need to define and understand the alternatives...Isn't hay just cut grass? I could purchase this? Couldn't we harvestour own hay and store? What is the average price of hay? Iunderstand that the average cow eats between 30-45 lbs of hay per day?So, for two cows I'd need approximately a ton of hay per month?Which is more expensive...hay or grain? Wouldn't you need less grainto hay as grain is more dense (or is it just me that's dense? ha!) Sooo...couldn't we just feed our cows grass in the spring and hay therest of the year, without supplimenting with grains? Thanx,robin No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/548 - Release Date: 11/23/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 I disagree. I have found a wealth of information from variuos universities regarding grass-fed, organic, sustainable, ect. In fact the University of Wisconsin campus (River Falls) that offers my Sus Comm Dev Master's program will even be 100% off-grid by 2010. That is how much they beliee in what they teach. Several other colleges and universities have good research as well. That is not to say that the actual extension agents don't have a different adgenda or just plan outdated !!! And the DDGS can be a good portion of grain fed to animals, IF you feed grain. I do however agree that Hoard's Dairyman is for traditional dairy farmers and not any of us in here. > > > VBG The extension office and agricultural colleges/university systems > > in each state offer a wealth of information. They have a lot of > > educational classes with most being in the fall and winter. Usually > > the spring and summer are too busy with the reality of farming for > > much of anything else. > > One of the best resources I found has been Hoard's Dairyman > > articles. You could probably lay your hands on back issues from any > > large animal 'cow' vet or any dairy operation. While geared towards > > commercial operations, it still has a lot of good info in it. > > Another good resource has been many of the horse magazines which > > have very detailed articles (with good pictures of hay)on nutrition. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 There is a BIG difference between extension agents and university research. " labelleacres " wrote: Our extension agent, or one of them (I think there have been 4 or 5 in the last 8 years), told us there was no way to grow any sort of crop without chemicals to kill those weeds. I could go on and on about that sort of thing. The only thing they've done for me is write a letter to verify my growing the things I was selling at the Cookeville farmers market. Belinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Bob, That is a very good topic. Sorry to hear about your string of health problems, but tickled you have such good friends and neighbors, you are so blessed. Having a written plan, with pictures/diagrams, etc... is a lifesaver, too! Even if just milking a single animal, you still need to think about what it would be like for someone to come in cold and try to do your chores. Keeping it all together in a binder that's always in the same place works great. Labeling (animals and stuff) helps, too. In our barn that can be as simple as a can of spray paint and numbering each stall door. Another is that I have a 'master' board in the barn which lists vital stats on each animal. And, all our does wear a numbered neck chain tag in addition to having a unique ear tattoo. All our cows are ear tagged, except my dairy cows, which also wear a numbered neck chain. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge, TN > > > > You sound like a wise woman Robin. I figure you'll be fine. Ask him > > how hard it is to find folks to milk in case the entire family wants > > to go away together. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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