Re: Non Viloent Communication- Off Topic

[Guest guest]

I have not read that particular book, but I am familiar with the

principle of non-judgmental communication. I do have more

experience than most people to do with communication in the public

sphere on several very controversial political/religious issues.

There is a vast gulf between the personal conscience, and the

conscience of the Public, ie. the herd. Those who prefer we all

get touchy-feely and dispense with the judging, are entirely

unprepared for the style, tone and energy level NECESSARY in

authentic political manoevering.

If I had a dollar for every time someone told me that " you catch

more flies with honey than with vinegar " , I'd be happily retired.

But I'm not in the fly-catching business. My calling is to warn and

inform America of how bad the situation is, and what to do about

it. This RawDairy forum is precious as an island of sanity to alert

people about self-sufficiency as the springs of hyper-inflation are

coiled.

Extremism in the defence of liberty is no vice ; moderation is no

virtue. Barry Goldwater quoting Cinncinatus, in the 1964

Presidential election. In hindsight, was Sen. Goldwater's judgment

right or wrong?

What's laughable is the very people who are adamant " judge not! " are

the ones quickest to weigh-in with the judgment when their own

little sacred cows get turned to hamburger

===================

In RawDairy , " bwickert@... " wrote:

>

> Dear All,

>

> My son is a junior in high school and he is taking a communication

> class at school and one of the books they are using is Non Violent

> Communication: A language of Compassion, by Marshall B.

Rosenberg. I

> believe it is an excellent book. Our son now points out how we

use

> words in our famjly. It has been great for everyone in the family

and

> our communications skills have been improving. It has also been

very

> embarrasing for me at times. I now have my own copy.

>

> As I read the posts I would like to offer up this book as a

resource

> for how we can be more effective in our communication and sharing

of

> information on this list. In the book there is much dicussion on

> " Feelings " " Observations with out Evaluation " and the differences

of

> each of these.

>

> If anyone else is familiar with the book they might offer their

opinion

> also. I hesitate to ask this because this is off topic but if

others

> have had experience with this book it would be great to hear from

you

> also.

>

> Wickert

>

[Guest guest]

,

I read that book during a management seminar and it is an excellent resource. I fully support your observations of the communication methods witnessed in the last few days, especially. While I am not sure that a book is needed, some mindfulness about our posts on the board would be helpful.

Of course, this post is not about raw milk or raw milk products... but it is concerning the overall tone of board, which in the short time I've been on it, has not been very friendly. I don't quite understand the hostility - can someone please let me know if there is some history to this interaction that I am missing out on, or something I am misinterpreting?

- Alena

On 10/27/06, bwickert@... <bwickert@...

> wrote:

Dear All,My son is a junior in high school and he is taking a communication class at school and one of the books they are using is Non Violent Communication: A language of Compassion, by Marshall B. Rosenberg. I believe it is an excellent book. Our son now points out how we use words in our famjly. It has been great for everyone in the family and our communications skills have been improving. It has also been very

embarrasing for me at times. I now have my own copy.As I read the posts I would like to offer up this book as a resource for how we can be more effective in our communication and sharing of information on this list. In the book there is much dicussion on " Feelings " " Observations with out Evaluation " and the differences of each of these.If anyone else is familiar with the book they might offer their opinion also. I hesitate to ask this because this is off topic but if others have had experience with this book it would be great to hear from you also. Wickert

[Guest guest]

I can answer that : in the two years that I've been participating,

this seemingly tiny little backwater is one of the places where the

eternal battle between the individual and the state, is being

articulated in words, not guns. Some people - bamboozled by state-

franchised religious professionals - cleave to the pernicious

doctrine that we ought to bow to the civil authority no matter what.

Others hold that we ought to obey God rather than men.

Problem in America today is that the facades of the original

Christian institutions are still there ( except in Alabama where the

Ten Commandments were removed by judicial diktat ) so the sheep

trudge on assuming that nothing has changed. In practice, every thing

has changed as the tendrils of outright fascism insinuate themselves

right down to the milk parlor. And for those who roll their eyes at

that kind of talk = you are not paying attention. What the hell do

you think NAIS is ?

I and a few others say " Resistance is not futile " . We are here

as " Remembrancers " ... an office of ancient Ireland. We are here so

that what happened to the Kulaks as Bolshevism descended in Russia,

does not happen here.

Go read your Declaration of Independence and tell me what those men

who wrote it, and bled and died for it, would be doing today?!

Gordon

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > My son is a junior in high school and he is taking a communication

> > class at school and one of the books they are using is Non Violent

> > Communication: A language of Compassion, by Marshall B.

Rosenberg. I

> > believe it is an excellent book. Our son now points out how we use

> > words in our famjly. It has been great for everyone in the family

and

> > our communications skills have been improving. It has also been

very

> > embarrasing for me at times. I now have my own copy.

> >

> > As I read the posts I would like to offer up this book as a

resource

> > for how we can be more effective in our communication and sharing

of

> > information on this list. In the book there is much dicussion on

> > " Feelings " " Observations with out Evaluation " and the differences

of

> > each of these.

> >

> > If anyone else is familiar with the book they might offer their

opinion

> > also. I hesitate to ask this because this is off topic but if

others

> > have had experience with this book it would be great to hear from

you

> > also.

> >

> > Wickert

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Willingness to participate in a non-violent, active listening type of

communication is a good clear indicator of the character of the

person/persons doing the communicating.

Question: (rhetorical) Do you listen? Or wait to talk?

Another question: Can you identify the words that can be termed

as 'judging words' in your own verbage?

Good listening skills are the hallmark of any good communicator.

Betsy, TN

[Guest guest]

Betsy,

I thoroughly agree with you.

Gordon,

I'm not sure what your background is, so I hesitate to disagree... but...

I do currently work within the political system as a grant writer for a large urban school district. Part of my job as grant writer is also to act as a lobbyist for this district - and one of the " things " I lobby for is better nutrition in schools. So, my interest in raw milk is valid and (I suppose) vested, as I have gone on the line as saying that I believe raw milk should be offered in schools. I have been met with much ridicule but, because of my character and prepared evidence, I am able to let my statement stand, hold my job, and retain the respect of my co-workers.

I have also studied (at Sonoma State University) under Savio, a leader in the free-speech movement and a man very knowledgeable of political discourse and activism.

I say all these things because I believe that a true activist is one who also wishes to educate, and that person follows certain guidelines. The first of those is to be KNOWLEDGEABLE, for without knowledge you are weak. The second is to LISTEN to opposing opinions with RESPECT, for without listening and respect you will not know your opposition (and they will not respect you in return). The third is to offer your prepared evidence, for your main purpose as activist is to EDUCATE. The last is to know when those who don't agree with you are no longer listening. At that point, your job isn't to scream, hurt, insult, or maim, but to live with dignity and truthfulness. Not everyone is going to agree with you, even if you are right. However, even if they don't agree, they may ultimately by convinced by the grace with which you live your life.

I am leaving this board because I am truly saddened that not one person has viewed this post and agreed that there is a need for more mutual respect amongst its members. I don't understand why, if we are all here for a unifying purpose, there is an underlying need for cruelty. This disrespect will never convince anyone that this way of life is either healthy or wise.

Not that I expect anyone reading this will care, but I am sorry to go. I do believe that there is much knowledge regarding raw milk to be gained from board members. This knowledge is not worth reading rude or cruel posts, however. I'm sure that there are other sources to learn from.

- Alena

P.S. I believe our founding fathers, who lived, bled, and died so that we could be here, would also tell you that even in battle your enemy is to be respected. You must respect what you kill, just as you respect what you consume.

On 10/28/06, glastonburyfarm@... <GlastonburyFarm@...

> wrote:

Willingness to participate in a non-violent, active listening type of communication is a good clear indicator of the character of the person/persons doing the communicating.Question: (rhetorical) Do you listen? Or wait to talk?

Another question: Can you identify the words that can be termed as 'judging words' in your own verbage?Good listening skills are the hallmark of any good communicator.Betsy, TN

[Guest guest]

Hey! I agreed with the post and almost wrote something about what you

said earlier but I ended up not sending anything because I am new here

too and didn't want to start anything again. Sorry.

*~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~*

@

" Laudo Deum " Farm

kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@...

Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats

for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and

families with young children.

(And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

[Guest guest]

Hello:Do you have any information on Kinder and Pigmy Dairygoats? I have a site about the Nigerian Dwarfs and thesite is fairly active. The other two would new to my andI would like to explore imformation on those breeds.I would also be interested in breeders near me inHouston, Texas. I am leaving the Philippines thefrist part of December.JJ{ first message and yahoo information have been deleted at the request of Mrs. - JJ - American in the Philippine Islands }Jo wrote: Hey! Raising quality Kinder and Nigerian Dwarf goats for small acreage farmers, homesteaders and families with young children. (And producing natural soaps for humans and animals.)

What is the internet to you? Contribute to the Yahoo! Time Capsule and be a part of internet history.

[Guest guest]

I want to thank you for your kind post. I will be taking a closer look at the Nigerian Dwarf.I think this may be the way to go.Regards,JJ wrote:  JJ, I've not responded to the questions about goat breeds, but since I've not seen this mentioned, I will. The first goat I milked was a Pygmy. Not the little toy people seem to like, but a real Pygmy, the type that are 80 to 100+ pounds, kid well and don't have the usual pygmy problems.The point is, that was the best milk I've ever had in my life, and didn't find out until later that it was probably because the butterfat content was so high, up to 10% or more for the breed. Being a medium-sized goat, she gave about a half-gallon or more a day without being fed for production. Not much, but so good. I believe people in Texas still raise these goats, crossing with other meat-type goats such as Boer and fainters. Another goat I had good luck with was Kiko cross. Still very much a feral type from Australia that had some Saanen added for better milking ability. My Kiko cross does have milked extremely well. They have fewer foot problems than many breeds, and seemed somewhat parasite resistant. Absolutely no kidding problems, very aggressive mothering, kids are up and active. The main problem I had

was that the "wild" was still close, and they requred consistent handling to stay friendly. This is a big goat, but I've seen great size difference between sexes. Does seem small, ~120-150 lb, bucks much bigger at 250-300 lb. Since they "came up" in Australia, will do well in the heat, but not sure about the moisture. Should also be readily available in Texas. You might also check Australia and NZ for these. I also haven't seen mentioned the hardiness of the Nigerian Dwarf. They are my most foolproof breed. Even with our wet conditions, never have hoof rot or foot scald. Very parasite resistant. Very, very easy kidding, and the kids are up nursing as soon as they hit the ground. Some have been bred for milking and do quite well. I have two that will milk about 3 quarts/day and have adequate teat size. High butterfat content. Mine are chunky enough to use as meat kids, too. Widely available

in the US. Hope this adds to the information you need to make a decision. in TN Re: Non Viloent Communication- Off Topic Hello:Do you have any information on Kinder and Pigmy Dairygoats? I have a site about the Nigerian Dwarfs and thesite is fairly

active. The other two would new to my andI would like to explore imformation on those breeds.I would also be interested in breeders near me inHouston, Texas. I am leaving the Philippines thefrist part of December.JJ{ first message and yahoo information have been deleted at the request of Mrs. - JJ - American in the Philippine Islands }

What is the internet to you? Contribute to the Yahoo! Time Capsule and be a part of internet history.

[Guest guest]

> wrote:



..The point is, that was the best milk I've ever had in my life, and

didn't find out until later that it was probably because the

butterfat content was so high, up to 10% or more for the breed.

Actually, the APGA (American Pigmy Goat Assn gives the range of

butterfat in Pygmy milk at 6-9 percent, with about 7 being average.

Bob

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Bob. I didn't know that. This old girl wasn't anything modern Pygmy

breeders would recognize, LOL. Very old-fashioned member of the breed. I

understand there are still people who raise this type, but not sure who or

where.

in TN

Re: Non Viloent Communication- Off Topic

> wrote:



..The point is, that was the best milk I've ever had in my life, and

didn't find out until later that it was probably because the

butterfat content was so high, up to 10% or more for the breed.

Actually, the APGA (American Pigmy Goat Assn gives the range of

butterfat in Pygmy milk at 6-9 percent, with about 7 being average.

Bob

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