Re: Re: Are we the only cowshare run by consumers?

[Guest guest]

Bless you, Bob. One

thing that bothers me when the NAIS issue is covered is how many people say “Why,

it will put small farmers out of business” or “ I’ll just

sell all my animals”…….THAT is what the powers that be would

like! What we need to do is say “ I WILL NOT COMPLY”. Freedom

maintained takes sacrifice, and if we all want the other person to sacrifice it

will not work.

www.MajestyFarm.com

" The average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths

imaginary. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty --

and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies. " -- H.L. Mencken

From:

RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Bob Hayles

Sent: Wednesday, September 27,

2006 8:07 AM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Re: Are we the

only cowshare run by consumers?

, I'm not intending this as a blast at you, but I cannot for the

life of me see how a person can say they are for the right to consume

what they choose and at the same time adopt a " go along to get along "

stance.

The founding fathers did not " go along to get along " ...thank God.

Parks did not " go along to get along " ...thank God.

Luther King did not " go along to get along " ...thank God.

The history of this country is replete with folks whose refusal to " go

along to get along " shaped the US for the better. Dumping tea in

Boston Harbor was not a " go along to get

along " thing to do, but it

was right...and our government has come to the point that if we had

another Boston Tea Party we would be arrested for polluting the harbor.

In 1949 when Orwell wrote " 1984 " , everyone scoffed at the idea

of our government, city, state, and federal, watching our every move.

Now there is a " security camera " , government owned, for every 350

people in the country.

Bottom line, if I own a gallon of raw goat's milk, and want $10.00 for

it, and if you want it and have $10.00 in your pocket you are willing

to give me for it, it is none of the government's business sticking

their nose into the PRIVATE transaction.

If you want " pragmatic serenity " , fine...but I prefer to suffer a bit

of aggrevation to keep the freedoms many have died for in the last 275

or so years.

Bob

> >

> > I understand this arguement, play their game and do it legally and be

> > grateful we live in a state where we can comsume and sell raw milk,

> > but yet, it doesn't sit with me so I don't do it even though I can.

> > Who is the government to tell us what we can and cannot ingest or

> > share?

> > john.langlois@... writes:

> >

> > Instead of fighting the system, why not use it to your advantage.

> > Having the state license you for the sale of raw dairy gives you a

> > layer of protection, if there is ever a problem.

> >

> > We would gladly " sign-up " in Alabama for what should be our

> > constitutional right to wholesome food, but we never get the

> > chance.

> >

> > Langlois

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Getting consumers to think for themselves is the problem. I have been selling milk for more than 4 year off this set of cows. I have had consumers that have never come during milking. They ask no questions and really don't have a clue what is good or not. Last year I had one consumer that I never even met in the course of the year that she bought milk. If they were asking questions and learning what is good or bad they would be out of the grocery store in a heart beat. I have been selling milk for a long time without a single incident but if someone took my milk and contaminated it and then blamed me for it how would I protect myself? We live in a world where people sue for everything weather they are in the right or not. With licensing I have someone who will say that I did things right.

Chris

>The point is where will this kind of thing stop??? Will the so called do gooders, who don't understand the facts, stop at any certain point? There are "bad eggs" in every group farmers included, but the government is not to think for me or for any of you. We can think for our selves. Our society is lazy and used to having the government think for us. We need to get back to supply and demand and good old thinking on our own. If you want to buy milk from me ,as was said before, check me out and my cow(s) and system. Surprise me with a visit, what you see is what you get. You'll Probably find cleaner more healthy cows and practices. If not, don't buy. If I were to be supplying a store, well, maybe that is a different animal. We need to do right all the time. Let us be the example of integrity, but not allow this to go any further and we need to gain some ground back. Does the government pay my bills or do I??? Well then, they need to mind their business and leave me to mine. > > So what you are saying is that if you get sick from the raw milk that you > bought you would not take action against the farmer in any way. To me the > licensing protects me as well as the buyer.> Chris> Would it not depend on why you got sick?> The very very few cases of people getting sick from raw milk are > sensationalized, and there is doubt about the ONE case I know about whether the milk was > actually bad...until this century there was only raw and there was no raw milk > plaugue or law suits against farmers.> > if you are buying raw milk would you not check out the faremer, the cows, > etc? Would you not first find a trustworthy farmer?> > As the farmer, would you not dump milk and inform drinkers if a cow gets sick > or if you test and have a high count> > do we not drink raw milk specifically to get the "bad stuff" in it to boost > our immune systems and improve our health? so much so that these good amount of > organisms that should be in us but have been taken away DO make us a bit sick > when we first start to drink raw?> knowing what you are doing and assuming the above, why would you take any > action against the farmer of milk that made me sick.> > I was raised on raw and we were a family farm and never tested. I think I > remember once when the milk tasted off and so we didn't drink it that day. We > drink from 2 cows and about 20 different goats, raw.> No one has ever gotten sick.> I have gotten violently ill after eating at a "licensed" restaurant many > times.> I have also been on "licensed grade A" daries, aka "protected farmers" and > step in the rat feces and see how the cows are housed so close together they are > breathing ammonia, on cement, fed chemicals and hormones and > antibiotics....now THAT makes me want to take action against someone...>

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/456 - Release Date: 9/25/2006

[Guest guest]

I don't know if this email will cause people to say sheesh she is stupid or she just doesn't have a clue. I watch suzanne sommers alot when she comes on HSN. She is a big advocate of free range grazing, grass fed beef, no antibiotics, no hormones etc. etc. She was even talking the other night about not drinking milk out of the stores that one needs to drink fresh off the farm cow or goats milk. She even went into detail about the farmers etc. I was CHEERING!!!!!!!!! I just wonder why as a group, people don't solicit her as a spokesperson. She is a celebrity with what appears to be the right attitude and knowledge. She overcame breast cancer not using mainstream treatments as well. It just seems to me that organizations like Weston Price Foundations, and others wouldn't get someone like her or like minded to crusade their cause. She is high profile, and alot of folks listen to her. I was just wondering..........food for

thought.......nobody shoot me if you don't think this is a good idea. I am just a newbie, and throwing an idea out there. Just Thinking Outloud Brittanykathryn russell wrote: Bless you, Bob. One thing that bothers me when the NAIS issue is covered is how many people say “Why,

it will put small farmers out of business” or “ I’ll just sell all my animals”…….THAT is what the powers that be would like! What we need to do is say “ I WILL NOT COMPLY”. Freedom maintained takes sacrifice, and if we all want the other person to sacrifice it will not work. www.MajestyFarm.com "The average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty -- and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies." -- H.L. Mencken From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Bob HaylesSent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:07 AMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: Are we the only cowshare run by consumers? , I'm not intending this as a blast at you, but I

cannot for thelife of me see how a person can say they are for the right to consumewhat they choose and at the same time adopt a "go along to get along"stance.The founding fathers did not "go along to get along"...thank God. Parks did not "go along to get along"...thank God. Luther King did not "go along to get along"...thank God.The history of this country is replete with folks whose refusal to "goalong to get along" shaped the US for the better. Dumping tea inBoston Harbor was not a "go along to get along" thing to do, but itwas right...and our government has come to the point that if we hadanother Boston Tea Party we would be arrested for polluting the harbor.In 1949 when Orwell wrote "1984", everyone scoffed at the ideaof our government, city, state, and federal, watching our every move.Now there is a "security camera",

government owned, for every 350people in the country.Bottom line, if I own a gallon of raw goat's milk, and want $10.00 forit, and if you want it and have $10.00 in your pocket you are willingto give me for it, it is none of the government's business stickingtheir nose into the PRIVATE transaction.If you want "pragmatic serenity", fine...but I prefer to suffer a bitof aggrevation to keep the freedoms many have died for in the last 275or so years.Bob> >> > I understand this arguement, play their game and do it legally and be > > grateful we live in a state where we can

comsume and sell raw milk, > > but yet, it doesn't sit with me so I don't do it even though I can. > > Who is the government to tell us what we can and cannot ingest or > > share? > > john.langlois@... writes:> >> > Instead of fighting the system, why not use it to your advantage. > > Having the state license you for the sale of raw dairy gives you a> > layer of protection, if there is ever a problem.> >> > We would gladly "sign-up" in Alabama for what should be our> > constitutional right to wholesome food, but we never get the> > chance.> >> > Langlois> >>

[Guest guest]

Actually if you think about it a little more... how do you feel when you see a

celebrity promoting gastric bypass surgery?

To me, it cheapens the cause. I have personally had gastric bypass and would

not " promote " the cause to anyone. It is simply a tool, very drastic and a very

individual decision and definitely not a cure-all, as commercials would have you

believe.

In the same, or not exactly the same, but similar light, so to speak, having a

celebrity, instead of real people, could cheapen our cause.

Not meant to be an opinion, but food for thought ;-)

Kathy

RE: Re: Are we the only cowshare run by consumers?

I don't know if this email will cause people to say sheesh she is stupid or she

just doesn't have a clue. I watch suzanne sommers alot when she comes on HSN.

She is a big advocate of free range grazing, grass fed beef, no antibiotics, no

hormones etc. etc. She was even talking the other night about not drinking milk

out of the stores that one needs to drink fresh off the farm cow or goats milk.

She even went into detail about the farmers etc. I was CHEERING!!!! !!!!! I just

wonder why as a group, people don't solicit her as a spokesperson. She is a

celebrity with what appears to be the right attitude and knowledge. She overcame

breast cancer not using mainstream treatments as well.

It just seems to me that organizations like Weston Price Foundations, and others

wouldn't get someone like her or like minded to crusade their cause. She is high

profile, and alot of folks listen to her. I was just wondering... .......food

for thought..... ..nobody shoot me if you don't think this is a good idea. I am

just a newbie, and throwing an idea out there.

Just Thinking Outloud

Brittany

[Guest guest]

Bob, Thanks for the note. I perceive government to be in a difficult

spot. The public appeals to them to prosecute people who lie, cheat

and steal. Theft by deception is a part of that and that is where the

history of food processing meets the law. The public benefited from

the crackdown on unsanitary conditions that were a real part of the

food supply in the 1900's. Bad milk was also a part of the problem.

(See Dr. Ron's discussion of the "swill dairies" for details.)

Therefore, I understand the structures that are now in place and the

sentiment that informs them.

At the same time I also believe that by and large the government and

the bureaucracies that work for it have been severely compromised by

the major corporations and the amorality of many leaders in Washington.

Therefore, I do not have an ethical problem with defying bad laws that

harm my family.

The problem comes when we expand the circle beyond the family to

include the general public.

By participating in a system that, for the most part, protects the

consumer AND the farmer, we provide a way for problems to be handled

that doesn't require big fines, jail time and people becoming

dangerously ill.

To be frank, we have people in our part of the world that will sell you

tainted raw milk from malnourished animals because they don't know any

better and they can get away with it. I am not in a hurry to help them.

I encourage people to patronize Grade A dairies because I believe those

farmers have done their homework and paid their dues to be in the game

and deserve our business. I also don't want them to be the cheapest

milk around, but I digress.

So, in a state like WA where there is an infrastructure that presents

reasonable thresholds of entry, I believe we should "go along" because

it benefits everyone. And I think that politicians can be

"enlightened" by an army of "militant moms" demanding the wholesome

food their kids need.

In a state like mine, which prevents raw milk sales through either

restricted access or unachievable licensing, we have no choice but to

openly defy the system, while we lobby for change.

So, the pragmatism I advocate is actually a process that embraces the

hope that liberty has not vanished. And it is practical way to put

into action the principles we both embrace. I want government to be

"of the people".

You mentioned one of my heroes, Luther King. Had I been in his

situation, it would have been very difficult for me not to become

violent over the injustice he endured. And yet, he chose the path of

non-violence, even though many people accused him of just going along.

He understood the power of truth and courage and especially that "no

idea is as powerful as one whose time has come."

I believe our time is now.

Langlois

Bob Hayles wrote:

, I'm not intending this as a blast at you, but I cannot for

the

life of me see how a person can say they are for the right to consume

what they choose and at the same time adopt a "go along to get along"

stance.

The founding fathers did not "go along to get along"...thank God.

Parks did not "go along to get along"...thank God.

Luther King did not "go along to get along"...thank God.

The history of this country is replete with folks whose refusal to "go

along to get along" shaped the US for the better. Dumping tea in

Boston Harbor was not a "go along to get along" thing to do, but it

was right...and our government has come to the point that if we had

another Boston Tea Party we would be arrested for polluting the harbor.

In 1949 when Orwell wrote "1984", everyone scoffed at the idea

of our government, city, state, and federal, watching our every move.

Now there is a "security camera", government owned, for every 350

people in the country.

Bottom line, if I own a gallon of raw goat's milk, and want $10.00 for

it, and if you want it and have $10.00 in your pocket you are willing

to give me for it, it is none of the government's business sticking

their nose into the PRIVATE transaction.

If you want "pragmatic serenity", fine...but I prefer to suffer a bit

of aggrevation to keep the freedoms many have died for in the last 275

or so years.

Bob

> >

> > I understand this arguement, play their game and do it

legally and be

> > grateful we live in a state where we can comsume and sell raw

milk,

> > but yet, it doesn't sit with me so I don't do it even though

I can.

> > Who is the government to tell us what we can and cannot

ingest or

> > share?

> > john.langlois@... writes:

> >

> > Instead of fighting the system, why not use it to your

advantage.

> > Having the state license you for the sale of raw dairy gives

you a

> > layer of protection, if there is ever a problem.

> >

> > We would gladly "sign-up" in Alabama for what should be our

> > constitutional right to wholesome food, but we never get the

> > chance.

> >

> > Langlois

> >

[Guest guest]

What state is your cow share in?

[Guest guest]

I respect that opinion, but just don't happen to agree. I feel that there are people out there that are very passionate about this subject, and I feel that there high profile could be very beneficial. BrittanyKathy wrote: Actually if you think about it a little more... how do you feel when you see a celebrity promoting gastric bypass surgery?To me, it cheapens the cause. I have personally had gastric bypass and would not "promote" the cause to anyone. It

is simply a tool, very drastic and a very individual decision and definitely not a cure-all, as commercials would have you believe.In the same, or not exactly the same, but similar light, so to speak, having a celebrity, instead of real people, could cheapen our cause.Not meant to be an opinion, but food for thought ;-)Kathy RE: Re: Are we the only cowshare run by consumers? I don't know if this email will cause people to say sheesh she is stupid or she just doesn't have a clue. I watch suzanne sommers alot when she comes on HSN. She is a big advocate of free range grazing, grass fed beef, no antibiotics, no hormones etc. etc. She was even talking the other night about not drinking milk out of the stores that one needs to

drink fresh off the farm cow or goats milk. She even went into detail about the farmers etc. I was CHEERING!!!! !!!!! I just wonder why as a group, people don't solicit her as a spokesperson. She is a celebrity with what appears to be the right attitude and knowledge. She overcame breast cancer not using mainstream treatments as well. It just seems to me that organizations like Weston Price Foundations, and others wouldn't get someone like her or like minded to crusade their cause. She is high profile, and alot of folks listen to her. I was just wondering... .......food for thought..... ..nobody shoot me if you don't think this is a good idea. I am just a newbie, and throwing an idea out there. Just Thinking Outloud Brittany

[Guest guest]

I'm assuming this is directed at me, since the rest of the posts on this thread I started have kinda gone in another direction, hee hee.

We are in Northern Virginia, about 40 miles southwest of DC.

Thanks for asking, Carol.

So, does anyone else have input as to other cowshares organized and owned separately from the famer?

Thanks for you input!

Sally

What state is your cow share in?

[Guest guest]

Oh! Run separately from the farmer! I did not understand, my apologies, I came into the discussion late since I just joined. I know of a few cow shares, but most are in fact run by the farmers and people buy stock into the farm to help costs (and to have ownership so they can legally get milk)

I think it would be neat to do so, but realistically, many if us live in the city, or are physically not able to help. I personally am ill, and my husband works a lot in a downtown area. That may be a better way to go, but for us and many others it just is not feasible. I am so grateful to the farmers who put their necks on the line to provide healthy milk for us.

Blessings,

Carol

[Guest guest]

Well, we don't actually do the farm chores. We contract with a farmer (agister) to board our cows, including milking services, much like a horse owner may board his horse at a horse farm if he lives in the city. The big difference, it seems, is that we actually, as a group, own our cows completely, and they were never owned by the farmer. This seems to protect the farmer, but it's giving us non-legal types (mostly just moms) headaches trying to figure out how to word everything properly including transfer of boarding fees.

Sally

I think it would be neat to do so, but realistically, many if us live in the city, or are physically not able to help. I personally am ill, and my husband works a lot in a downtown area. That may be a better way to go, but for us and many others it just is not feasible. I am so grateful to the farmers who put their necks on the line to provide healthy milk for us.

[Guest guest]

Sure shawn go ahead. Suezann sommers just seems so passionate about all of this, and I have learned a great deal from her. I know I don't know all the in's and outs especially with celebrity compensation and such, but it seems like if nobody tries how does one know it wouldn't be successful. I just wondered because it seems to me sometimes that HSN tries to shut her up when she would just love to keep talking about all this information she has worked so hard to be schooled in. I am sure that they are just interested in the selling aspect, but she works very hard to bring quality products to her followers. I have gotten from her in the past, and it won't be my last time a 16 pack of free range chicken without hormones and antibiotics along with grass fed beef void of the same items. It is delicious and hardy, and I feel reasonably priced for what you get. She has several books out because I believe that is the medium she feels she can get

the word out with. She has been preaching against synthetic hormones for years and years, and now the medical community is starting to jump on the bandwagon as the risk of breast cancer increases 400% with synthetic hormone replacements. There is also a show that I watch called " Know the Cause ", and it seems like a perfect avenue for someone as knowledgeable as Sally Fallon. I have seen several people on there that support the causes that so many talk of on this site. It is based here in texas, and the email is www.knowthecause.com. Brittanychicsingr2 wrote: Brittany,May I forward your email here to Sally Fallon, President of the Weston Price Foundation? I think she would like to know. Sometimes people just have no idea that a celebrity could support their cause. ii think this may be the case with Sally. She is definitely not into pop culture too much and probably doesn't know about Suzanne, but she would have the credibility to approach her.:-)>> I don't know if this email will cause people to say sheesh she is stupid or she just doesn't have a clue. I watch suzanne sommers alot when she comes on HSN. She is a big advocate of free range

grazing, grass fed beef, no antibiotics, no hormones etc. etc. She was even talking the other night about not drinking milk out of the stores that one needs to drink fresh off the farm cow or goats milk. She even went into detail about the farmers etc. I was CHEERING!!!!!!!!! I just wonder why as a group, people don't solicit her as a spokesperson. She is a celebrity with what appears to be the right attitude and knowledge. She overcame breast cancer not using mainstream treatments as well.> > It just seems to me that organizations like Weston Price Foundations, and others wouldn't get someone like her or like minded to crusade their cause. She is high profile, and alot of folks listen to her. I was just wondering..........food for thought.......nobody shoot me if you don't think this is a good idea. I am just a newbie, and throwing an idea out there.> > Just Thinking Outloud>

Brittany

[Guest guest]

I believe the ditzy blonde is called an acting role, and I certainly don't think that a woman should be catagorized by the size of her breasts. This is a smart, articulate and self educated woman. I guess the key word to your post here is possibly a "few decades ago". I would suggest reevaluation in the opinion department that reflects the present. Brittany"Gordon S. " wrote: Suzanne Sommers as a spokeswoman for RawDairy? The little I recall of her is

that a] she has big udders, or did, a few decades ago, and b] she perfectly portrayed the ditzy blond.-------------------------------------... > RE: Re: Are we the only cowshare run by consumers? > > I don't know if this email will cause people to say sheesh she is stupid or she just doesn't have a clue. I watch suzanne sommers alot when she comes on HSN. She is a big advocate of free range grazing, grass fed beef, no antibiotics, no hormones etc. etc. She was even talking the other night about not drinking milk out of the stores that one needs to drink fresh off the farm cow or goats milk. She even went into detail about the farmers etc. I was CHEERING!!!! !!!!! I

just wonder why as a group, people don't solicit her as a spokesperson. She is a celebrity with what appears to be the right attitude and knowledge. She overcame breast cancer not using mainstream treatments as well. > > It just seems to me that organizations like Weston Price Foundations, and others wouldn't get someone like her or like minded to crusade their cause. She is high profile, and a lot of folks listen to her. I was just wondering... .......food for thought..... .. nobody shoot me if you don't think this is a good idea. I am just a newbie, and throwing an idea out there. > > Just Thinking Outloud > Brittany>