Re: Hurt feelings

[Guest guest]

" Thanks for your thoughts on this subject. Sometimes I just

don't understand what other people are thinking and also forget that

when some people complain, they are not looking for answers but

sympathy. "

is better versed in custom and manners than I am, and, with his

comments, I believe he has successfully defined what good and valid ettiquette

is. At the same time, I am not going to rescind my comments either.

I think if I were to delve into the psychology of your husband's friend, what we

are seeing is a guy who knows he screwed up but wants comfort anyway. People in

this position will often (falsely) put the blame on others in order to increase

their likelihood of getting sympathy which probably is not much deserved.

I'd rather say " I screrwed up " and then ask for sympathy. If I were to get

sympathy, it would be more genuine that way. More meaningful.

Wouldn't it be better to have a friend who still wants to be friends with you

even if you made a bunch of big mistakes rather than have a friend who sticks

with you under a false pretense?

Of course, having this sort of philosophy about this issue is why I do not have

many friends. But that is the risk you have to take. Do I want quality or

quantity?

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" If his friend wants to be consoled for his financial ineptitude, ask

your husband what good it does to reinforce and comfort a person for

messing up instead of trying to explain what he can do to avoid the same

pitfall in the future. "

I think the name of the game was to blame someone else or something

else, such as dropped hours, rise in gas prices, wife's lost job...etc.

and then proceed to be angry that " others " are getting bailed out

whereas he has not received help. Not that he hasn't tried and is

working with the lenders.

I really don't think he was hurt now that I've been contemplating the

whole thing, I think he was surprised I said what he in his heart knows

to be true.

As for your opinion of my husband, please don't base it entirely on my

posts. No one deserves to be judged by what other say about them alone.

In this instance, I do think he was wrong and was fairly forceful when

telling him so. I thank you too for your imput Tom.

Kim

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> Administrator

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[Guest guest]

I know I'm a little later than and Visigoth (real name escapes my memory

right now, if I know it) but you did reveal some interesting points I will

address, that are different than what they did:

>

>

> I wonder if I'll ever learn how not to offend others.

>

This first point is one I think I need to address most: it's a fool's errand to

try to not offend everyone, because by being who you are, or not being who you

are, either way, you'll offend someone, sometime, somehow, because they will

take offense, even if none is given, unless you live by yourself on an island

where nobody interacts with you at all, in which case, you may very well offend

yourself!

> Recently, my husband connected with an old friend of his with whom he

> used to lift weights. They knew each other before I met my husband but

> after we married the two drifted apart. So, for the past couple of

> months they have been going to the gym together and my husband's friend

> has confided some of his family problems. One of his woes is his

> financial situation has led to his home being foreclosed. My husband

> has discussed this with me too.

>

Ok, so your husband's friend is in over his head for the mortgage, has been

working with his lender (or attempting to) and he's been going to the gym to

work out, while being unable to fulfill his housing payment obligations? If you

can pay for everything you already are obligated for, and you have the means to

do that, that's fine. Granted, depending on the situation (unless your husband

is bringing him as a guest to his gym) there might be some sort of contract for

the gym that can't be terminated without a termination fee, depending on

details, but, here's where it's odd: he's going to be out of his house, and he's

spending money/time/energy at a gym, which invariably costs money at all gyms

I've seen? And then, he comes to your place and unloads his woes onto you in

your home?

> Well, last weekend they both came back to our home after a workout. The

> friend spoke with me about his entire " home " situation and basically

> blamed the morgage lender. As you can imagine, I told him exactly what

> I believed to be the problem and really who was to blame for the problem

> too. He back peddled somewhat and admitted his faults to some degree.

>

Here's the funny thing: perhaps my understanding is wrong, but I've read amongst

various so-called " professionals " that when guys talk about something, they're

looking for solutions, and when girls talk about something, they're looking for

support, a kind word, etc. and so, if he's a so-called typical " guy " perhaps

he's looking for a solution to a problem. Well, I see what you would have

likely said (without knowing the wording) as being constructive criticism, that

of being a sounding board, even if not exactly how he wanted to hear things, and

not exactly perhaps how your husband would want to hear you say things,

because... perhaps he's embarrassed he's got a wife that thinks, and speaks, and

isn't a timid mouse.

> After another workout together on Monday, my husband came home and told

> me that I had hurt his friend's feelings. I explained that if the

> friend was going to complain in front of me about his problems, I think

> it was only right that I could voice my opinions about the situation.

> My husband later was on the phone with his friend and told him I

> probably have this thing called Aspergers, that's why I say whatever

> comes into my head. They used to call it " diarreha of the mouth " he

> also said and then chuckled.

Your husband isn't being supportive in this whole thing: he should support you,

and be YOUR defender of honor and virtue, NOT that of his guy friend! Call it

chivalry, if you will, or... just part of what it means for wedding vows to be

taken seriously. If you did something illegal/immoral, I'd state he wouldn't

have any valid responsibility to defend you in that case, if he knew for sure

you had done it, but neither one of those labels applies in this case. So, too,

you should support your husband, when you believe he's trying to do the right

things, and is acting morally/legally. Isn't marriage a partnership where two

become one?

>

> When my husband got off the phone, I told him that what he said wasn't

> nice. No matter how I explained why I spoke to his friend the way I

> did, he still thinks that I shouldn't have said anything. I do not

> think I can live like that and even when I have tried to keep my

> thoughts private, it never lasts for long.

>

^ This to me says perhaps you two didn't get to know each other well enough

during the dating period, and accept you for you, and you accept him for him:

perhaps he had the idea that he could change you, and, for all I know, you had

the thought you could change him, as that's a common bad start. I think I've

also heard from various " experts " that women think they can change their men,

and men think their women will never change: of course, unless you marry a

computer program that isn't designed to change, that's not true in practice!

> I am not too worried about this friends hurt feelings but it does bother

> me to think my husband thinks poorly of me.

If you haven't already, I think you need to show this post to him, and ask him

how serious he is in his commitments, because a house divided cannot stand the

tempests of reality as it buffets it.

>

> Kim

>

[Guest guest]

Kim, My empathy is with you,

Throughout the years, I have spoken my mind to people when they 'complain' using the 'woe is me line', some of them have then given my husband the cold shoulder; even though he had kept silent or been sympathetic to the person. He used to be quite accepting of me, and mystified why these 'freinds' would shun him.

But through the years he has become less tolerant of my 'different' style of discussion.

Now we seldom have friends together, we each have our different friends, and a very few acquaintances in common. but when we are together with them I try to not speak of personal stuff as uch....Not ideal but things change.

I have not told him that I might have Aspergers syndrom, as far as i know, he thinks that I am inexperienced dealing with people thus do strange/akward stuff, and he says I am very confrontational. The confrontational style he attributes to my cultural background.

He is very passive aggressive.

Things hav been written about tough love in self help books etc, a friend thinks I am not hostile-confronational just more realistic/tough love.

have to go, will dialogue again later. don't give up, and (my personal advice) don't sell your soul/ be less that who you are/ to keep husband happy.

rl

'My cat Rusty is a servant of the Living God....'

adapted from a poem by Smart

I wonder if I'll ever learn how not to offend others.Recently, my husband connected with an old friend of his with whom heused to lift weights. They knew each other before I met my husband butafter we married the two drifted apart. So, for the past couple ofmonths they have been going to the gym together and my husband's friendhas confided some of his family problems. One of his woes is hisfinancial situation has led to his home being foreclosed. My husbandhas discussed this with me too.Well, last weekend they both came back to our home after a workout. Thefriend spoke with me about his entire "home" situation and basicallyblamed the morgage lender. As you can imagine, I told him exactly whatI believed to be the problem and really who was to blame for the problemtoo. He back peddled somewhat and admitted his faults to some degree.After another workout together on Monday, my husband

came home and toldme that I had hurt his friend's feelings. I explained that if thefriend was going to complain in front of me about his problems, I thinkit was only right that I could voice my opinions about the situation. My husband later was on the phone with his friend and told him Iprobably have this thing called Aspergers, that's why I say whatevercomes into my head. They used to call it "diarreha of the mouth" healso said and then chuckled.When my husband got off the phone, I told him that what he said wasn'tnice. No matter how I explained why I spoke to his friend the way Idid, he still thinks that I shouldn't have said anything. I do notthink I can live like that and even when I have tried to keep mythoughts private, it never lasts for long.I am not too worried about this friends hurt feelings but it does botherme to think my husband thinks poorly of

me.Kim

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[Guest guest]

I would not have handled things the way that he handled it, but he may have been trying to " keep the peace " without knowing you would overhear. I might have tried: " I'm sorry, Kim can be somewhat blunt at times, but she means well, and did not intend to hurt your feelings. "

While I generally speak the truth, I often try to phrase it kindly. I think this is a holdover from how much acting and shielding I have had in my life, and something similar to maternal instinct. Some people confide in me because they know I do not panic.

*offers a hug*I can understand how his comments hurt. does have a number of fair points, but printing out the post for a confrontation may inflame things.

[Guest guest]

" This first point is one I think I need to address most: it's a fool's

errand to try to not offend everyone,...... "

I agree but when someone says that I've hurt someone, I try not to

repeat whatever I did that offends.

" Ok, so your husband's friend is in over his head for the mortgage, has

been working with his lender (or attempting to) and he's been going to

the gym to work out, while being unable to fulfill his housing payment

obligations? "

My thoughts EXACTLY!

" Well, I see what you would have likely said (without knowing the

wording) as being constructive criticism, that of being a sounding

board, even if not exactly how he wanted to hear things, and not exactly

perhaps how your husband would want to hear you say things, because...

perhaps he's embarrassed he's got a wife that thinks, and speaks, and

isn't a timid mouse. "

It was not my intent to berate this friend but to offer up what I would

do if in his shoes. As for my outspoken, opinionated way of speaking,

my husband knew I was well read when I met him and my intelligence was

one of the things he told me he loved about me BUT he does not care for

my spouting of information or opinions in certain instances.

" Your husband isn't being supportive in this whole thing: he should

support you, and be YOUR defender of honor and virtue, NOT that of his

guy friend! "

I have spoken to my husband about my actions and his. He thinks I take

things too seriously, especially when he told his friend about my

verbosity. He tells me to lighten up all the time!

" Isn't marriage a partnership where two become one? "

Ah but we are still individuals with independent thought. Compromise

(as long as it doesn't involve something illegal or immoral) is what I

see as the key. That is why I dwell on this because I want to find a

way not to offend this particular friend with whom my husband will be

spending quite a bit of time.

" This to me says perhaps you two didn't get to know each other well

enough during the dating period..... "

You are right about that and I know at the time we felt as though we

knew each other quite well. We discussed serious topics and where we

stood on, what I thought at the time, were the most important issues

that two people who were intent on marriage needed to be in agreement

together.

" If you haven't already, I think you need to show this post to him, and

ask him how serious he is in his commitments, because a house divided

cannot stand the tempests of reality as it buffets it. "

Our marriage has been through it's up and downs like many others and I

agree that when we are on opposing stances of major issues, it can ruin

what we have together. Our relationship has evolved over the years and

things change. At this point I can only think that after nineteen years

together, that he and I both are committed to each other and life

together. I'm not saying that things won't change, of this I can't be

certain.

I appreciate your thoughtful reply Strict.

Kim

[Guest guest]

" But through the years he has become less tolerant of my 'different'

style of discussion. "

That seems to be the case with me as well and my husband thinks I am

confrontational too. I also take a different way of dealing with

people, head on so to speak, whereas my husband listens to them talk and

waits until later to tell me that he disagrees with what they were

saying. BIG EYE ROLL! He avoids arguements like the plague but I seem

to enjoy a decent debate.

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

Kim

[Guest guest]

>

> I would not have handled things the way that he handled it, but he may

have

> been trying to " keep the peace " without knowing you would overhear.

That was most assuredly not the case as he knew I was in the room with

him.

I might have tried:

> " I'm sorry, Kim can be somewhat blunt at times, but she means well,

and did

> not intend to hurt your feelings. "

That would have been acceptable and much kinder.

" While I generally speak the truth, I often try to phrase it kindly. "

I try too only to find out that most people think I was being, well

different than kind that's for sure! It is hard when you try to word

things well only to find that how it comes across is not the way you

intended.

" I think this is a holdover from how much acting and shielding I have

had in my life, and something similar to maternal instinct. Some people

confide in me because they know I do not panic. "

That must be difficult Zoe. I am a " nervous Nelly " but only when it

comes to being in charge of some larger event or driving long distances.

For events, I can never sleep more than a couple of hours for days

before hand and the driving issue is now much easier with the many maps

& driving directions offered online.

" *offers a hug* "

Sometimes he forgets I could use one, so thanks for the hug.

" I can understand how his comments hurt. does have a number of

fair points, but printing out the post for a confrontation may inflame

things. "

No, I wouldn't want my husband to judge anyone here based on their

replies to me either so I will not print them out. Rather take those

points to use in a discussion about what happened.

Thank you Zoe.

Kim

>

[Guest guest]

Well stated by !Excusing others for their mistakes is not helpful.rl'My cat Rusty is a servant of the Living God....'adapted from a poem by SmartFrom: environmental1st2003 <no_reply >Subject: Re: Hurt feelingsTo: FAMSecretSociety Received: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 11:15 AM

"I wonder if I'll ever learn how not to offend others."

<snip>

"The friend spoke with me about his entire "home" situation and basicallyblamed the morgage lender. As you can imagine, I told him exactly whatI believed to be the problem and really who was to blame for the problemtoo. He back peddled somewhat and admitted his faults to some degree."After another workout together on Monday, my husband came home and toldme that I had hurt his friend's feelings."

Allow me to defend you by saying to your husnband's friend"Tough luck."

Let me state something plainly. People may think that I am heartless when I make "broad generalizations" about groups of people. In this case, the group of people in question is one in which they have spend freely without forethought as to what their job status might look like in the future and what the economy would do.

I truly do believe that it is important to have an optimistic outlook in life, but there is a difference between having a positive outlook and avoiding seeing what's right in front of everyone's faces so that one can live a fairy tale.

As much as we all aspire to buy homes and live comfortably, being able to afford the lifestyle we desire is difficult, and maintaining that lifestyle is dependent not only on one's own ability to persevere, but on the ability to predict and avoid a plethera of circumstances which can hit without warning. People really do need to crunch the numbers and do the work before making such a considerable investment as purchasing a house.

When I KNOW that people are more capable than they let on, but these people allow themselves to drop into pitfalls, it really irks me, especially when it is prudent people like myself who will wind up getting taxed to bail these people out. I have a right to complain. It IS my business because they have, through their own negligence and/or incompetence, made it my problem.

You have a right to make whatever statements you feel the need to make. If they open their mouths and speak, it means you have a right to speak in return, and if they do not like what you say, that is their problem.

"I explained that if the friend was going to complain in front of me about his problems, I think it was only right that I could voice my opinions about the situation."

As I said above, you were right.

"My husband later was on the phone with his friend and told him I probably have this thing called Aspergers, that's why I say whatever comes into my head. They used to call it "diarreha of the mouth" he also said and then chuckled."

That's disrespectful. It's a direct insult, in fact.

"When my husband got off the phone, I told him that what he said wasn't nice. No matter how I explained why I spoke to his friend the way I did, he still thinks that I shouldn't have said anything. I do not think I can live like that and even when I have tried to keep my thoughts private, it never lasts for long."I am not too worried about this friends hurt feelings but it does bother me to think my husband thinks poorly of me."

Print this off and give it to him. Tell him I think poorly of him. If he was any friend to his friend, he would have told his friend what you did so that his friend does not make the same mistake twice. If his friend wants to be consoled for his financial ineptitude, ask your husband what good it does to reinforce and comfort a person for messing up instead of trying to explain what he can do to avoid the same pitfall in the future.

Administrator

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[Guest guest]

..but printing out the post for a confrontation may inflame things....1. Zoe has a good point, would Kim's husband be annoyed that Kim told her Aspie friends about the incident?? 2. There is a lot to think about and many helpful insights from all the replies. I am learning a lot.rl'My cat Rusty is a servant of the Living God....'adapted from a poem by Smart

I would not have handled things the way that he handled it, but he may have been trying to "keep the peace" without knowing you would overhear. I might have tried:"I'm sorry, Kim can be somewhat blunt at times, but she means well, and did not intend to hurt your feelings."

While I generally speak the truth, I often try to phrase it kindly. I think this is a holdover from how much acting and shielding I have had in my life, and something similar to maternal instinct. Some people confide in me because they know I do not panic.

*offers a hug*I can understand how his comments hurt. does have a number of fair points, but printing out the post for a confrontation may inflame things.

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[Guest guest]

" does have a number of fair points, but printing out the post for a

confrontation may inflame things. "

True. Itr may inflame things, but then again, Kim had not been able to make her

own husband hear her. As Strict says (and you will recall he also suggested to

her that she print out HIS post) a husband's first duty is to his wife and a

wife's first duty is to her husband. One ought not to put down the other or make

dispariging remarks about them publicly.

It seems to me that Kim's husband was trying to preserve his friendship at the

expense of his wife's honor. Keep in mind that this man opened his mouth, ergo

it was an invitation for anyone to comment on what he said. If he did not like

Kim's comments, then he should have kept his mouth shut.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

> 1. Zoe has a good point, would Kim's husband be annoyed that Kim told

her Aspie friends about the incident??

Most likely yes but I wouldn't hide the fact that I asked for anyone

here to be my sounding board. Where I fail to see something, others

outside thoughts may be extremely helpful.

> 2. There is a lot to think about and many helpful insights from all

the replies. I am learning a lot.

Me too!

Kim

[Guest guest]

> My husband later was on the phone with his friend and told him I

> probably have this thing called Aspergers, that's why I say whatever

> comes into my head. They used to call it " diarreha of the mouth " he

> also said and then chuckled.

>

> Kim

>

This part has some real meaning for me. Brad would say to me (I can't believe

you just threw me under the bus)

Whatever you said right or wrong there are two issues. What he said to his

friend showed little deference to you. He could have said my wife feels

strongly about the mortgage issue; without referring to it in toliet humor

descriptions. Placing blame for honest words as bad form rather than a discreet

opinion not being " owned " by Aperger's

He used you to deflect, a coward's choice and reason for concern as this is what

your life partner thinks. I would be concerned too

My ex Husband would make excuses for me that way when I stated some truths for

his friends (mostly about their drinking habits and their direct relationship to

my family's weel being by association) and we are exes you see (an attempt

at humor)

The Crux of the matter is in fact what your Husbands actually thinks of you (my

ex was intimidated by me, it made for a bad marriage)

I am hoping you can iron this out (please excuse my late response) Mimi

[Guest guest]

Kim wrote: " ... <snip> ... My husband later was on the phone with his friend and told him I probably have this thing called Aspergers, that's why I say whatever comes into my head. They used to call it "diarrhea of the mouth" he also said and then chuckled ... <snip> ... I am not too worried about this friends hurt feelings but it does bother me to think my husband thinks poorly of me ... <snip> ... "

Oh my! I have so much I want to say about this scenario but I will try to keep to a bare minimum.

Firstly, the fact that your husband feels a need to protect his friend and to abandon his wife does not bode well in the least. It means he values his friend above his wife which means that you are, in his eyes, less important in his life than his workout buddy.

Secondly, if he feels justified diminishing you as an individual, your marriage is in serious trouble as well. Marriage is a partnership and the manner in which your husband treated you with regards to his friend shows an inordinate amount of disrespect for his partner.

Thirdly, he's giving himself an excuse for your behaviour by blaming AS when it is nothing more than voicing your opinion. Considering that his friend saw fit to drag you into his personal affairs by way of discussing them publicly in your home, he has no right to be offended by your point of view. If he didn't want anyone else's opinion than his own and your husband's then he ought not to have spoken about the situation in front of anyone other than himself and your husband.

Fourthly, if he thinks this poorly about you because you have AS, then he also has a similar negative and dismissive opinion about his son who is diagnosed with AS. Your son has done nothing to deserve this sort of bigotted, discriminatory behaviour from his biological father!

So while I can understand how your husband's comments reveals his poor opinion of you, the love of his life, you ought to be outraged that this is how he perceives AS on behalf of your son.

Raven

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... I would say so, but I'm not sure it really indicates your husband thinks poorly of you. Most likely he was playing for the audience of his friend and didn't realize you would hear him ... <snip> ... "

I beg to differ. Whether he was trying to play to the crowd is immaterial. Whether he thought Kim would overhear the telephone conversation is also immaterial.

He married Kim, not his workout buddy. His first loyalty is to his wife. If he acts otherwise it is a clear indication that he neither respects her nor feels she is a full partner in the marriage.

To give him an excuse with which to continue insulting his wife direclty and his son indirectly is to support his inexcusable behaviour. A crime is not a crime only when the individual is caught red handed; it is a crime the minute it is committed. And so it is within the bonds of matrimony where this sort of behaviour is incorrect whether the spouse is aware of the situation or completely out of the loop.

Raven