Re: Milk Safety

October 1, 2006

..One of the

problems is that when milk is at 38 degrees, and is in a fridge that is opened

regularly throughout the day, the temp, especially in the summer, will creep up

above 40 easily. In the absence of a chiller that maintains the temp and milk

is decanted directly from, I much prefer to have it a bit chilly as going up

above 40. Just my opinion.

www.MajestyFarm.com

" What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from

saying that they don't like something to saying that the government should

forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very

long. " Sowell

From:

RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Charity

Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006

8:15 PM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Milk Safety

In reading the entire message thread, I had a couple of comments.

For the person who said that sometimes they get ice in their milk,

you actually have your fridge too cold. While I no longer work on

somebody else's farm, I have worked on two Grade A dairy farms - as a

milker mostly. While 40 is the max temp, the target is 38. 33 or 35

is simply too close to freezing and you are going to severly lessen

your quality of milk and taste.

For the person who talked about cleanliness -- ABSOLUTELY. Use

stainless steel or glass as anything else can habor germs no matter

how much you clean it. Plastic is horrible to reuse because bacteria

will stick deep in the pores forever. Even Aluminum should be avoided

for the long-term because if you scratch the coating off through

excessive scrubbing then it's just like plastic. You even need to be

mindful of the soap you use or it will leave a nasty tasting residue.

Don't resuse your straining cloths, don't add fresh warm milk to

already cooled milk and never expose yuor milk to sunlight or

flourescent lights.

Since I'm new yesturday, I hope I'm not repeating stuff that you've

talked about recently or have overstepped my bounds. Just trying to

be helpful.

October 2, 2006

" never expose yuor milk to sunlight or

> flourescent lights. "

Can you elaborate on this? I am going to be a home dairy and want to

get close to grade A as possible, with in reason. Does that mean a

room with no windows and incandescent lights only or just don't leave

it on the counter? I was going to convert part of my basement to the

milk room. I have 1 basement window for light with a flourescent

light as back up. There is already a light colored concrete floor

with drain and double sink in that area. I was going to tranfer milk

into quart jars and either place in cold sink water or place in the

deep freeze temporarily which ever is quicker.

Thanks,

Jenn

October 2, 2006

When I say 38, I mean a constant 38. If you keep a thermometor in

your fridge, you will know if it is not staying cool enough. Also,

the back of the fridge stays a bit cooler than the front.

>

> One of the problems is that when milk is at 38 degrees, and is in a

fridge

> that is opened regularly throughout the day, the temp, especially

in the

> summer, will creep up above 40 easily. In the absence of a chiller

that

> maintains the temp and milk is decanted directly from, I much

prefer to have

> it a bit chilly as going up above 40. Just my opinion.

>

> www.MajestyFarm.com

> _____

>

> From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On

Behalf

> Of Charity

> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 8:15 PM

> To: RawDairy

> Subject: Milk Safety

>

> In reading the entire message thread, I had a couple of comments.

>

> For the person who said that sometimes they get ice in their milk,

> you actually have your fridge too cold. While I no longer work on

> somebody else's farm, I have worked on two Grade A dairy farms - as

a

> milker mostly. While 40 is the max temp, the target is 38. 33 or 35

> is simply too close to freezing and you are going to severly lessen

> your quality of milk and taste.

>

> For the person who talked about cleanliness -- ABSOLUTELY. Use

> stainless steel or glass as anything else can habor germs no matter

> how much you clean it. Plastic is horrible to reuse because bacteria

> will stick deep in the pores forever. Even Aluminum should be

avoided

> for the long-term because if you scratch the coating off through

> excessive scrubbing then it's just like plastic. You even need to be

> mindful of the soap you use or it will leave a nasty tasting

residue.

> Don't resuse your straining cloths, don't add fresh warm milk to

> already cooled milk and never expose yuor milk to sunlight or

> flourescent lights.

>

> Since I'm new yesturday, I hope I'm not repeating stuff that you've

> talked about recently or have overstepped my bounds. Just trying to

> be helpful.

>

October 2, 2006

I understand what

you are saying, However, keeping the thermometer in the fridge does not change

the fact that w/ opening and closing there is cooling loss and it is necessary

in that less than constant environment to reduce the temp to reflect the

changes, esp. in the heat of the

summer. We typically adjust the temp in the evening as the fridge is not opened

during the night. It WILL go up above 40 very quickly IF the fridge is being

opened and closed with regularity.

www.MajestyFarm.com

``If

a nation expects to be ignorant and free, " Jefferson wrote in 1816, ``it expects what never was and

never will be. "

From:

RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Charity

Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006

12:44 PM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Re: Milk

Safety

When I say 38, I mean a constant 38. If you keep a thermometor in

your fridge, you will know if it is not staying cool enough. Also,

the back of the fridge stays a bit cooler than the front.

>

> One of the problems is that when milk is at 38 degrees, and is in a

fridge

> that is opened regularly throughout the day, the temp, especially

in the

> summer, will creep up above 40 easily. In the absence of a chiller

that

> maintains the temp and milk is decanted directly from, I much

prefer to have

> it a bit chilly as going up above 40. Just my opinion.

>

> www.MajestyFarm.com

> _____

>

> From: RawDairy

[mailto:RawDairy ]

On

Behalf

> Of Charity

> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 8:15 PM

> To: RawDairy

> Subject: Milk Safety

>

> In reading the entire message thread, I had a couple of comments.

>

> For the person who said that sometimes they get ice in their milk,

> you actually have your fridge too cold. While I no longer work on

> somebody else's farm, I have worked on two Grade A dairy farms - as

a

> milker mostly. While 40 is the max temp, the target is 38. 33 or 35

> is simply too close to freezing and you are going to severly lessen

> your quality of milk and taste.

>

> For the person who talked about cleanliness -- ABSOLUTELY. Use

> stainless steel or glass as anything else can habor germs no matter

> how much you clean it. Plastic is horrible to reuse because bacteria

> will stick deep in the pores forever. Even Aluminum should be

avoided

> for the long-term because if you scratch the coating off through

> excessive scrubbing then it's just like plastic. You even need to be

> mindful of the soap you use or it will leave a nasty tasting

residue.

> Don't resuse your straining cloths, don't add fresh warm milk to

> already cooled milk and never expose yuor milk to sunlight or

> flourescent lights.

>

> Since I'm new yesturday, I hope I'm not repeating stuff that you've

> talked about recently or have overstepped my bounds. Just trying to

> be helpful.

>

October 2, 2006

Nope...the cold sink water is faster...it won't get the milk as cold

as the freezer, but it will get it as cold as the running water faster

than the even colder air in the freezer. Conduction will draw the

heat off faster than convection.

Bob

>

> " never expose yuor milk to sunlight or

> > flourescent lights. "

> Can you elaborate on this? I am going to be a home dairy and want to

> get close to grade A as possible, with in reason. Does that mean a

> room with no windows and incandescent lights only or just don't leave

> it on the counter? I was going to convert part of my basement to the

> milk room. I have 1 basement window for light with a flourescent

> light as back up. There is already a light colored concrete floor

> with drain and double sink in that area. I was going to tranfer milk

> into quart jars and either place in cold sink water or place in the

> deep freeze temporarily which ever is quicker.

> Thanks,

> Jenn

>

October 3, 2006

Get some old plastic milk jugs, I use quart size, and fill about 3/4 full

with water and freeze.... put those in cold water and your milk will cool

even faster. Get an old refrigerator, put a large plastic container in the

bottom where the veggie crisper bins usually are, fill about 1/2 full with

cold water and keep refrigerator temp on the cool almost freezing side,

then plunk in some plastic quart jugs of frozen water, add your fresh

milk... put a regular stem thermometer clipped to the container of

icewater so the tip is submerged in the water, keep it around 38 and

this holds a constant temp better than air temp when refrigerator door is

opened and closed.

Sometimes I " precool " my milk in a large stainless pail in cold water in

the sink before jugging up into plastic jugs and putting in the

refrigerator's ice water bath

If you are using canning jars for you milk, be careful that the water level

doesn't rise over the lids and seep into the milk and vice versa. I use

plastic jugs with sealable lids.

Debbie Higgins, Rainhaven Grade A Raw Goat Microdairy in WA

http://www.rainhaven.com/dairy.html

> >

> > " never expose yuor milk to sunlight or

> > > flourescent lights. "

> > Can you elaborate on this? I am going to be a home dairy and want

to

> > get close to grade A as possible, with in reason. Does that mean a

> > room with no windows and incandescent lights only or just don't

leave

> > it on the counter? I was going to convert part of my basement to the

> > milk room. I have 1 basement window for light with a flourescent

> > light as back up. There is already a light colored concrete floor

> > with drain and double sink in that area. I was going to tranfer milk

> > into quart jars and either place in cold sink water or place in the

> > deep freeze temporarily which ever is quicker.

> > Thanks,

> > Jenn

> >

>

October 3, 2006

Anything more than a quart will not cool fast enough in the fridge.

Also remember that the bottom of the fridge is colder than the top.

Immersed in ice water is best although not always practical.

In glass jars (as appossed to stainless steel) sun & flourescent lights

will change the flavor. Short periods of time would not make much of a

difference. I'm talking about several minutes. The basement seems fine

but, I still wouldn't use the flourescent lights. That freezer would

come in handy for keeping you stocked with ice for ice-water cooling

though!

Grade A is able to do this without exposure to any light because

everything goes straight from the teat, through pipes, to the milk tank

which has a built in cooler. That makes it easier. It's a little harder

for us!

>

> " never expose your milk to sunlight or