Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 The problem with 'bucky' flavor in goat milk products is because the milk has been handled roughly and/or it's too old. Capriolic acid is a by product of the milk's aging process. NOTE- there is also the rare individual doe (Toggenburgs are the most common, but any breed can be affected) that has genetic factor that causes them to produce lots of free capriolic acid in their milk. In late fall and early winter, after I have bred the does and before they are dried up I often have five or more bucks running with my does. No goat bucky off flavors in the milk. We have used Myrenburg Ultrapastuerized Goat milk over the years when circumstances were that we didn't have any does in milk and had run out of frozen milk. Literally about half the time we found it to be as good tasting as anything we had ever drank and the other time it was so awfully bucky smelling/tasting we could not drink it. It is so common that I take a cooler with ice in it and if I have to buy it, I open it when I get to the car and sample, then take back what fails the taste test. Repeated phone calls and letters of complaint yeilded nothing by vague excuses on Myrenburgs part- ie 'stage of lactation', 'time of year', etc... And, I plainly told them that I MILK goats myself and wasn't buying those excuses for a moment. IMVHO Myrenburg milk has caused a lot of people to think poorly of goat milk and never try it again. Nearly all the goat butter I have ever purchased has had a goaty, bucky off flavor. I think this is due to a combination of two things- churning beats up the cream and often butter has been held for a long, long time in storage before it gets to market. All the sweet, good tasting goat butter I have had was VERY fresh, less than a week old. I have also eaten some goat yogurt sold in health food stores locally (Knoxville) and all of it also had that bucky taste. Again, I think it's a by product of rough handling and too long a time in storage. None of my homemade yogurt has ever had that kind of problem! But, I go through a half gallon or more a day, so it never gets a chance to become old LOL. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge, TN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 IMHO you are absolutely right. I tried some goat cheese at the Farmers Market, produced right here in Arkansas by a grade A goat dairy. I had refused at first to try it but he kept at me to taste. UGH, I informed him that I could put my cheese next to his and 99% of his customers tasting would take my cheese over his. LOL Ann StagnerTornado Alley Nubians & Boersville, AR STOP NAIS NOW http://NoNAIS.org Arkansas_Against_NAIS Should I Write My Congressman?Each Congressman has 2 ends, a thinking end and a sitting end. Since his Whole Success depends on his Seat, WHY BOTHER. (Chad Trio Early 70s) Re: cow vs. goat The problem with 'bucky' flavor in goat milk products is because the milk has been handled roughly and/or it's too old. Capriolic acid is a by product of the milk's aging process. NOTE- there is also the rare individual doe (Toggenburgs are the most common, but any breed can be affected) that has genetic factor that causes them to produce lots of free capriolic acid in their milk. In late fall and early winter, after I have bred the does and before they are dried up I often have five or more bucks running with my does. No goat bucky off flavors in the milk. We have used Myrenburg Ultrapastuerized Goat milk over the years when circumstances were that we didn't have any does in milk and had run out of frozen milk. Literally about half the time we found it to be as good tasting as anything we had ever drank and the other time it was so awfully bucky smelling/tasting we could not drink it. It is so common that I take a cooler with ice in it and if I have to buy it, I open it when I get to the car and sample, then take back what fails the taste test. Repeated phone calls and letters of complaint yeilded nothing by vague excuses on Myrenburgs part- ie 'stage of lactation', 'time of year', etc... And, I plainly told them that I MILK goats myself and wasn't buying those excuses for a moment. IMVHO Myrenburg milk has caused a lot of people to think poorly of goat milk and never try it again. Nearly all the goat butter I have ever purchased has had a goaty, bucky off flavor. I think this is due to a combination of two things-churning beats up the cream and often butter has been held for a long, long time in storage before it gets to market. All the sweet, good tasting goat butter I have had was VERY fresh, less than a week old. I have also eaten some goat yogurt sold in health food stores locally (Knoxville) and all of it also had that bucky taste. Again, I think it's a by product of rough handling and too long a time in storage. None of my homemade yogurt has ever had that kind of problem! But, I go through a half gallon or more a day, so it never gets a chance to become old LOL. DonnaSafehaven NubiansDandridge, TN No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.0/420 - Release Date: 8/16/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Ann, What kind of cheese was it that you were trying at the Farmers Market? Do you hand milk (I do) or machine milk? I would like to compare to someone who machine milks to see if that's a deciding factor in how their cheese ages? I am munching on some chevre right now, that I made every bit of a month ago (it's the Sesame Seed recipe in Toth's book, Goats Produce, Too!) and while getting on in age for a 'fresh' chevre, it still is NOT the least bit bucky tasting! In fact, it's got an almost cheeder cheese like taste to it. I am wondering how that would do to use that recipe as a cheese ball and coat in almonds for the holiday season?? And, every once in a while I'll end up with some yogurt that's two or three weeks old (only if it gets pushed to the back of the refrigerator and overlooked, though!) And, while it may be pretty sour and whey seperated, etc... like any yogurt does when it's old, it still is never bucky tasting. Nor is my feta cheese bucky either. I make two varieties of feta, one is a plain feta with no added liapase. It is what Americans like and THINK is so strong! And, then another that I add kid liapase and it's like the imported Greek feta I used to get at DeKalb Farmers Market in GA- it makes you realize why 'feta' and 'fetid' have the same Greek word root LOL. I adore it, but all by true diehard fetaphiles think its ghastly. VBG I guess my St. Maure though will be the true test. It takes several weeks to age all the way through and the center get gooey. I have eaten some that was a month old and it was very good. A friend who had family in France (her mother is French) said it tasted as good as anything she had eaten there. That really tickled me! Have your does started cycling yet? I thought mine were, but so far the buck doesn't seem to be that interested. I sure had hoped to get at least half a dozen bred so I'd have milk in January. I really need to start freezing every drop of milk I can to carry me through the end of November, December and the first of January. Sheila Nixon is coming here on Sunday to do our linear appraisal. This will be the first time an several years we have done it. We sure enjoyed doing it in years past and hope to get back into the habit of doing it every year. Donna > > IMHO you are absolutely right. I tried some goat cheese at the Farmers Market, produced right here in Arkansas by a grade A goat dairy. I had refused at first to try it but he kept at me to taste. UGH, I informed him that I could put my cheese next to his and 99% of his customers tasting would take my cheese over his. LOL > > Ann Stagner > Tornado Alley Nubians & Boers > ville, AR > > > STOP NAIS NOW http://NoNAIS.org > Arkansas_Against_NAIS > > Should I Write My Congressman? > Each Congressman has 2 ends, a thinking end and a sitting end. Since his Whole Success depends on his Seat, WHY BOTHER. > (Chad Trio Early 70s) > Re: cow vs. goat > > > The problem with 'bucky' flavor in goat milk products is because > the milk has been handled roughly and/or it's too old. Capriolic > acid is a by product of the milk's aging process. NOTE- there is > also the rare individual doe (Toggenburgs are the most common, but > any breed can be affected) that has genetic factor that causes them > to produce lots of free capriolic acid in their milk. > In late fall and early winter, after I have bred the does and > before they are dried up I often have five or more bucks running with > my does. No goat bucky off flavors in the milk. > We have used Myrenburg Ultrapastuerized Goat milk over the years > when circumstances were that we didn't have any does in milk and had > run out of frozen milk. Literally about half the time we found it to > be as good tasting as anything we had ever drank and the other time > it was so awfully bucky smelling/tasting we could not drink it. > It is so common that I take a cooler with ice in it and if I have > to buy it, I open it when I get to the car and sample, then take back > what fails the taste test. Repeated phone calls and letters of > complaint yeilded nothing by vague excuses on Myrenburgs part- > ie 'stage of lactation', 'time of year', etc... And, I plainly told > them that I MILK goats myself and wasn't buying those excuses for a > moment. IMVHO Myrenburg milk has caused a lot of people to think > poorly of goat milk and never try it again. > Nearly all the goat butter I have ever purchased has had a goaty, > bucky off flavor. I think this is due to a combination of two things- > churning beats up the cream and often butter has been held for a > long, long time in storage before it gets to market. All the sweet, > good tasting goat butter I have had was VERY fresh, less than a week > old. > I have also eaten some goat yogurt sold in health food stores > locally (Knoxville) and all of it also had that bucky taste. Again, > I think it's a by product of rough handling and too long a time in > storage. None of my homemade yogurt has ever had that kind of > problem! But, I go through a half gallon or more a day, so it never > gets a chance to become old LOL. > Donna > Safehaven Nubians > Dandridge, TN > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.0/420 - Release Date: 8/16/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 I am a cow person but have had goats and I have a very good friend that has goats. She is the one that has taught me the most about making cheese. Her cheese fresh or pressed all taste wonderful. There is no goaty or off flavor at all. It has a lot to do with how you milk and how you handle the milk afterwards. You have a lot more leay way with cows milk. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I agree with what you say, Donna, and I do feel that also as part of the " how is the milk handled " issue that the coliform count per ml does impact the flavor, even in fresh milk and certainly in its shelf life. I hand milk and have been able to consistently test at " <1 " (ie, zero) coliform count, but most of the people machine milking are having a learning curve on how to achieve that low rating. Debbie @ Rainhaven http:/www.rainhaven.com/ > > The problem with 'bucky' flavor in goat milk products is because > the milk has been handled roughly and/or it's too old. Capriolic > acid is a by product of the milk's aging process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 I wonder if your friends are using too much 'magic water' and not getting everything dry before attaching inflators? Gravity works to bring water down to lowest point and that means teat ends and into the milk. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge,TN > > > > The problem with 'bucky' flavor in goat milk products is because > > the milk has been handled roughly and/or it's too old. Capriolic > > acid is a by product of the milk's aging process. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Well what I found out by trial and error is First: send in your milk samples in a frozen state, Second: Only use FedEx to ship and NEVER UPS. These two alone made a HUGE difference in coliform count. The next step was to figure out just how much Detergent, Chlorine, and Acid to our extremely hard water! What the labels said was NOT enough due to the water hardness. On teat washing and 'magic water'. Use an Iodine base udder wash. Only wash the teats, not the udder. Also you don't need a sopping wet cloth for this. Wring it out very well first. If you are interested here is a web link that gives the proper steps in washing udders: The 12 Golden Rules: http://www.delaval-us.com/Dairy_Knowledge/12_golden_rules.htm LHR Manufacturing Setting The Standard for Portable Milking Machines http://www.milking-machines.com Re: cow vs. goat I wonder if your friends are using too much 'magic water' and not getting everything dry before attaching inflators? Gravity works to bring water down to lowest point and that means teat ends and into the milk. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge,TN > > > > The problem with 'bucky' flavor in goat milk products is because > > the milk has been handled roughly and/or it's too old. Capriolic > > acid is a by product of the milk's aging process. > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ Archive search: http://onibasu.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 > > Well what I found out by trial and error is First: send in your milk samples > in a frozen state... Well, that depends. If you only want coliform results that might be OK, but if you want a good lab check of your milk, there is more than coliform to check, and freezing makes some tests impossible. SCC (somatic cell count) for example cannot be done on frozen samples. The freezing ruins the sample for SCC test purposes. Since I have several tests done on each sample, freezing is not an option. I do agree with avoiding UPS though. Their service sucks. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Freezing samples will make a difference because it kills bacteria to freeze. We found this out the hard way trying to figure out a mastitis case several years back. You might want to baby some samples on ice, but not frozen, get them to a lab within 24 hours and have that analyzed for a better picture of what's going on. Nolvasan is also a good dip. I use it and no wash water at all on the goats. Just strip, dip, wait about a minute, wipe off with a single use towel, milk, dip and out they go. Some animals can be allergic to iodine. I have had two cows and two goats over the years that were. Our water is extremely hard, too. If you are using a CMT, you want to use distilled water to reconstitute the reagent. It does make a diffence on how well things clean up, that's a fact. I run acid through the dishwasher about once a month. If you don't clean out your hot water heater once a year it will literally fill up with 'white' sand. Wearing gloves helps, too, in lowering bacteria counts. I even wear them when I hand milk. Seems to make it easier as you get a better grip. Everybody remind me in January that I lost my mind this week.... pretty much all seventeen does are bred to kid in about a five day spread. LOL I do plan on selling at least six more does, so that should only leave me about eleven. The doelings won't get bred until November to kid in April for another dozen or so. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge, TN > > > > > > The problem with 'bucky' flavor in goat milk products is > because > > > the milk has been handled roughly and/or it's too old. Capriolic > > > acid is a by product of the milk's aging process. > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 This is for a coliform count. The lab tells us to freeze the samples. Even sending via FedEx the samples arrive when the milk is over 24 hours old. I packed three sample fresh on ice. Sent them in to the lab and they arrived at 60 degrees. That's too warm for a real count. That count was hugely over the limit. To tell you the truth I was kind of p.o.'d they ran it and charged me! They told me when I called the samples need to arrive at or below 40 degrees to be viable. So the next samples I sent to a different lab. LHR Manufacturing Setting The Standard for Portable Milking Machines http://www.milking-machines.com Re: cow vs. goat Freezing samples will make a difference because it kills bacteria to freeze. We found this out the hard way trying to figure out a mastitis case several years back. You might want to baby some samples on ice, but not frozen, get them to a lab within 24 hours and have that analyzed for a better picture of what's going on. Nolvasan is also a good dip. I use it and no wash water at all on the goats. Just strip, dip, wait about a minute, wipe off with a single use towel, milk, dip and out they go. Some animals can be allergic to iodine. I have had two cows and two goats over the years that were. Our water is extremely hard, too. If you are using a CMT, you want to use distilled water to reconstitute the reagent. It does make a diffence on how well things clean up, that's a fact. I run acid through the dishwasher about once a month. If you don't clean out your hot water heater once a year it will literally fill up with 'white' sand. Wearing gloves helps, too, in lowering bacteria counts. I even wear them when I hand milk. Seems to make it easier as you get a better grip. Everybody remind me in January that I lost my mind this week.... pretty much all seventeen does are bred to kid in about a five day spread. LOL I do plan on selling at least six more does, so that should only leave me about eleven. The doelings won't get bred until November to kid in April for another dozen or so. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge, TN > > > > > > The problem with 'bucky' flavor in goat milk products is > because > > > the milk has been handled roughly and/or it's too old. Capriolic > > > acid is a by product of the milk's aging process. > > > > > > > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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