Re: transitions, fixations and anger

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dorelle, I do think saying " no " in the car has been where

the worse hitting has occurred. I better adjust the behavior

plan as you mentioned, we are asking too much. I have not tried

abilify but it was suggested by the psychiatrist.

thank you for sharing with me, it really helps.

Pam

>

> Hi Pam,

>

> Yes, we've been there too. I know how I questioned my parenting and

couldn't understand how my dd couldn't handle simple transitions but seemed fine

for other people. It's been a long journey but 95% improved. It took both

medication and a very gentle and specific behavior plan. I also had to let go

of the idea that typical parenting with natural consequences would work. My

first question to you would be to consider the antipsychotics for emotional

dysregulation. My DD is diagnosed (not sure if this is true) with bipolar and

in addition to zoloft is on trileptol and abilify. They have side effects

(weight gain) and are expensive but I don't think she could function without

them. Whenever we've tried reducing them we have increased aggression. It is

well documented that if a child has bipolar then using an antidepressant can

increase the aggression. Also, although she has the rigidity of thought, I need

to be " flexible " on my expectations. The word " no " is a trigger and if she's in

a transition, that is not the time to use the word. Some type of " negotiation "

works for us. It's not ideal and perhaps being firmer would have sped up this

process but I know that when she feels the panic of loosing control (and if can

happen so fast over what seems to be such a small thing) she is not capable of

stopping herself from spiraling downhill. Instead of helping, that is when (in

the past) it has escalated to calling the police or hospitalization. Just the

fear that she is slipping back to those days will cause her to spiral out of

control. After she has calmed, she will follow the rules, accept the

consequences etc. So, I usually get what I want just not in my time. At her

worse we had multiple hospitalizations and numerous police interventions. I

honestly don't think the professionals knew how to handle her. The meltdowns,

at their worse, were dozens of times/day for hours. Now, a meltdown (without

aggression but rudeness and anger) might occur daily for 5 minutes at

transitions or doing math homework. It has taken almost 3 years. My dd is now

14 y.o. We didn't recognize the anxiety or OCD until 6th grade. We did see

attachment issues, controlling behavior since age 3.

>

> Dorelle

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam,

Yes, we've been there too. I know how I questioned my parenting and

couldn't understand how my dd couldn't handle simple transitions but seemed fine

for other people. It's been a long journey but 95% improved. It took both

medication and a very gentle and specific behavior plan. I also had to let go

of the idea that typical parenting with natural consequences would work. My

first question to you would be to consider the antipsychotics for emotional

dysregulation. My DD is diagnosed (not sure if this is true) with bipolar and

in addition to zoloft is on trileptol and abilify. They have side effects

(weight gain) and are expensive but I don't think she could function without

them. Whenever we've tried reducing them we have increased aggression. It is

well documented that if a child has bipolar then using an antidepressant can

increase the aggression. Also, although she has the rigidity of thought, I need

to be " flexible " on my expectations. The word " no " is a trigger and if she's in

a transition, that is not the time to use the word. Some type of " negotiation "

works for us. It's not ideal and perhaps being firmer would have sped up this

process but I know that when she feels the panic of loosing control (and if can

happen so fast over what seems to be such a small thing) she is not capable of

stopping herself from spiraling downhill. Instead of helping, that is when (in

the past) it has escalated to calling the police or hospitalization. Just the

fear that she is slipping back to those days will cause her to spiral out of

control. After she has calmed, she will follow the rules, accept the

consequences etc. So, I usually get what I want just not in my time. At her

worse we had multiple hospitalizations and numerous police interventions. I

honestly don't think the professionals knew how to handle her. The meltdowns,

at their worse, were dozens of times/day for hours. Now, a meltdown (without

aggression but rudeness and anger) might occur daily for 5 minutes at

transitions or doing math homework. It has taken almost 3 years. My dd is now

14 y.o. We didn't recognize the anxiety or OCD until 6th grade. We did see

attachment issues, controlling behavior since age 3.

Dorelle

[Guest guest]

Biofeedback would be good for her. I also have a 13yr old daughter with

Asperger's and anger issues. She does not hit me, but she sure has a mouth on

her. She does hurt her siblings daily. Anyway, all three of my girls have

Asperger's and they did both neurofeedback and biofeedback with good results.

They all also improved dramatically on the GFCF diet.

Misty

________________________________

To:

Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 11:31:11 AM

Subject: transitions, fixations and anger

I am hoping someone has an idea. I feel hopeless. My 13 year old Asperger

daughter also has a diagnosis of anxiety. Since toddlerhood

she has had outbursts on transitioning. At age 7 the

nuerologist called it OCD. Then it was DX as AS with anxiety.

When she fixates on something if I stop her she hits me. The worst

is that she is obessed with going to the store to buy things, yet

when she gets there she can't decide and it takes hours.

If I say " no " to shopping, she really punches me until she

wears herself out or she pulls on my purse and tries to

get me back in the store.

This happens in the summer too, if we go to the zoo or

a musuem she is much more interested in looking at

things in the store. I better not take her to the

zoo if I do not intend to buy her something there

is a scene even if we agree ahead of time not to get something.

She is too impulsive once we get there.

She is on 75mg of zoloft. We have a behaviorist yet

nothing has improved in this area in the last year.

At the psychiatrist office she denies she hits me in

shame, but hits me for saying she hits. It makes

no sense. She has no self awareness when it comes

to family members.

What can help improve emotional regulation? What else

can reduce anger? I am sure this is biological since

as a baby if you took her out of a swing she would

have a major meltdown, it has never gotten better.

It just changed to buying things to cope with leaving

places. In spite of consistency she continues to outburst

and hit. She can control herself in school. She had to

be placed in a special needs school though because

she was way too stressed in public school and refused

to go.

I appreciate any ideas.

Pam

[Guest guest]

Pam, just want to say I have no helpful ideas but will be interested to hear if

you find something that works or improves it.

used to hit, throw things. Real impulsive. Mostly it was he hit.

I never broke him of that, he was just so fast and impulsive, couldn't stop it

before it happened, punishment didn't seem to help. I know at times he felt I

didn't like him (probably because I was on 's " side " when getting on

about hitting him), he couldn't seem to see the difference of " I'm upset

with you because of your behavior " being separate from still loving him because

he's my son. Once when his older brother hit him (not in face) after he had

been getting , I didn't punish older son, told it was because of

*why* older son did it to him, but also I felt it was about time he knew how it

felt to be on receiving end!

When he finally broke his knuckle in early high school (somewhere around that

age) when he hit , he quit after that. I don't know if that alone, or

maturity too, helped; maybe embarassment at me telling the emer room doc how he

broke it! Oh he was hitting/throwing things less often by that time, but still

happened. Throwing things might be like he'd be mad about something with the

TV (wanting to watch something else than ) and throw the remote, or throw

it AT someone. He used to be mad, walk by the silverware drawer and mess up the

silverware (where it was sorted), things like that, when he was upset. And no,

no way could I *make* him put it back right.

Today, at 21, you couldn't imagine he ever acted like that, so much difference!

So some (((hugs))) for you but no parenting answers from me! You seem to have

been doing everything right, unless you repeat it every 5 minutes when you're

out with her as reminders!

>

> I am hoping someone has an idea. I feel hopeless. My 13 year old Asperger

daughter also has a diagnosis of anxiety. Since toddlerhood

> she has had outbursts on transitioning. At age 7 the

> nuerologist called it OCD. Then it was DX as AS with anxiety.

>

> When she fixates on something if I stop her she hits me. The worst

> is that she is obessed with going to the store to buy things, yet

> when she gets there she can't decide and it takes hours.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for taking the time to respond. It really helps

to hear others stories. I do hope she will

outgrow this. Since the issues don't occur at school

I am hopeful that she will. She is just too stressed socially

and academically even in a special needs school. If Bonnie

has good luck with Dr. Hollander I may take my daughter

also to see him. I just hate to start experimenting with

medications beyond SSRI's. Our therapist had suggested

we look into DNA drug sensitivity testing to see if she would do better on a

medication like lexapro. I am all for that.

My daughter's psychiatrist never suggested we try another

SSRI to see if it helps reduce the outburts. Zoloft was

working fine on anxiety and did not make the outburts worse.

It is so helpful to have this group. I don't stay stuck for long with all the

input and I do feel much more hopeful than I did just a day ago.

Thanks again.

Pam

> >

> > I am hoping someone has an idea. I feel hopeless. My 13 year old Asperger

daughter also has a diagnosis of anxiety. Since toddlerhood

> > she has had outbursts on transitioning. At age 7 the

> > nuerologist called it OCD. Then it was DX as AS with anxiety.

> >

> > When she fixates on something if I stop her she hits me. The worst

> > is that she is obessed with going to the store to buy things, yet

> > when she gets there she can't decide and it takes hours.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You're welcome Pam, wish I had a solution. I feel for other parents going

through same/similar as I know we parents TRY and sometimes others feel we

parents should be able to stop some behaviors (their kids don't do that, if they

did then they'd be able to stop their child, etc.), and I don't mean OCD

behaviors; but that just isn't the reality in some particular kids.

I've read about the testing for which meds will/won't work, do let us know how

that turns out, hope you can get that done soon.

>

> Thanks for taking the time to respond. It really helps

> to hear others stories. I do hope she will

> outgrow this. Since the issues don't occur at school

> I am hopeful that she will. She is just too stressed socially

> and academically even in a special needs school. If Bonnie

> has good luck with Dr. Hollander I may take my daughter

> also to see him. I just hate to start experimenting with

> medications beyond SSRI's. Our therapist had suggested

> we look into DNA drug sensitivity testing to see if she would do better

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to say my 7 year old son has become this way regarding buying

things and taking hours to decide on something. He can be told right before we

go in that we are only getting so and so and still HAS to have something. This

just started over the last few months. He has made himself sick tantruming to go

to the store because he HAD TO buy something!

Sorry I am not of any help but I sure understand it!

>

> I am hoping someone has an idea. I feel hopeless. My 13 year old Asperger

daughter also has a diagnosis of anxiety. Since toddlerhood

> she has had outbursts on transitioning. At age 7 the

> nuerologist called it OCD. Then it was DX as AS with anxiety.

>

> When she fixates on something if I stop her she hits me. The worst

> is that she is obessed with going to the store to buy things, yet

> when she gets there she can't decide and it takes hours.

>

> If I say " no " to shopping, she really punches me until she

> wears herself out or she pulls on my purse and tries to

> get me back in the store.

>

> This happens in the summer too, if we go to the zoo or

> a musuem she is much more interested in looking at

> things in the store. I better not take her to the

> zoo if I do not intend to buy her something there

> is a scene even if we agree ahead of time not to get something.

> She is too impulsive once we get there.

>

> She is on 75mg of zoloft. We have a behaviorist yet

> nothing has improved in this area in the last year.

> At the psychiatrist office she denies she hits me in

> shame, but hits me for saying she hits. It makes

> no sense. She has no self awareness when it comes

> to family members.

>

> What can help improve emotional regulation? What else

> can reduce anger? I am sure this is biological since

> as a baby if you took her out of a swing she would

> have a major meltdown, it has never gotten better.

> It just changed to buying things to cope with leaving

> places. In spite of consistency she continues to outburst

> and hit. She can control herself in school. She had to

> be placed in a special needs school though because

> she was way too stressed in public school and refused

> to go.

>

> I appreciate any ideas.

>

> Pam

>

[Guest guest]

It does sound like it is anxiety related. Don't know how much this will help a

13 yr old, but many times transitional objects help. Does she use an iPod or

like something that she might usually take in the car or whatever (book,

magazine, ect)? You can put it in your purse unbeknownst to her and give it to

her just prior to the time when she gets stuck. uses his iPod in the

car and during appointments to help him stay relaxed. The object might also be

a stick of gum or lollipop. Sometimes I make lists prior to going into the

store have him help me get only what we need (just what's on the list) and it

keeps him busy and less anxious.

As for the difficulty making decisions (also an anxiety symptom) ...I always

found that limiting choices is best. SOmetimes this means that we go on the

store website to make the choice prior to going into the store. Then his mind

is made up and it's a matter of quickly getting it off the shelf.

A good article on emotional regulation...

http://www.aspfi.org/documents/gellerasq.pdf

http://www.education.com/reference/article/emotion-regulation/#E

All the best to you

Bonnie

> >

> > I am hoping someone has an idea. I feel hopeless. My 13 year old Asperger

daughter also has a diagnosis of anxiety. Since toddlerhood

> > she has had outbursts on transitioning. At age 7 the

> > nuerologist called it OCD. Then it was DX as AS with anxiety.

> >

> > When she fixates on something if I stop her she hits me. The worst

> > is that she is obessed with going to the store to buy things, yet

> > when she gets there she can't decide and it takes hours.

> >

> > If I say " no " to shopping, she really punches me until she

> > wears herself out or she pulls on my purse and tries to

> > get me back in the store.

> >

> > This happens in the summer too, if we go to the zoo or

> > a musuem she is much more interested in looking at

> > things in the store. I better not take her to the

> > zoo if I do not intend to buy her something there

> > is a scene even if we agree ahead of time not to get something.

> > She is too impulsive once we get there.

> >

> > She is on 75mg of zoloft. We have a behaviorist yet

> > nothing has improved in this area in the last year.

> > At the psychiatrist office she denies she hits me in

> > shame, but hits me for saying she hits. It makes

> > no sense. She has no self awareness when it comes

> > to family members.

> >

> > What can help improve emotional regulation? What else

> > can reduce anger? I am sure this is biological since

> > as a baby if you took her out of a swing she would

> > have a major meltdown, it has never gotten better.

> > It just changed to buying things to cope with leaving

> > places. In spite of consistency she continues to outburst

> > and hit. She can control herself in school. She had to

> > be placed in a special needs school though because

> > she was way too stressed in public school and refused

> > to go.

> >

> > I appreciate any ideas.

> >

> > Pam

> >

>