Re: Mold growth on Fiberglass Insulation

[Guest guest]

But mold does grow quite well on particulate that becomes trapped between/on the

fiberglass fibers. Removal of moldy fiberglass insulation (which is porous) is

the typical recommended method of remediation.

Curtis Redington, RS

Environmental Quality Specialist

City of Wichita Dept. of Environmental Health

Wichita, KS

Re: Mold growth on Fiberglass Insulation

I'll defer to the technical members of the list, but my understanding is

that mold cannot grow on fiberglass. However, paper backing, fillers

containing cellulose, etc. and you can have a mold problem. You haven't told

us enough about the material you are concerned with.

Shell J. Bleiweiss

Environmental and OSHA Law

Chicago and Barrington Illinois Offices

www.shell-bleiweiss.com

Mold growth on Fiberglass Insulation

> I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and

> requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing

> on/inside insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has

> acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client

> would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so,

> what should be done for remediation.

>

> Darren

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always

been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice

issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such

copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law.

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is

distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in

receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.

If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your

own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright

owner.

>

[Guest guest]

Darren,

Mold cannot subsist on the minerals (glass fibers) in fiberglass insulation,

though some people feel that microbial growth can ooccur on the UFFI glue

used to bond the fibers.

But the bigger issue is nutrient dust. There is virtually nothing

manufactured and put into a building that is without biodegradable dust, so

wet insulation inevitably gets moldy. If water entered the wrap, it could

easily lead to mold growth and the wrap may have to be removed. I often find

Cladosporium growing on the outside of the vinyl wrap, presumably using the

8-carbon alcohol in the plasticizer as the nutrient. This could probably

also occur at the inside but I have never looked.

The same is true for moldy synthetic carpeting. The plastic fibers are

virtually non-biodegradable but mold readily grows in the trapped dust when

the relative humdiity is high enough. (I have scanning electron micrographs

of mold growing on new carpet fibers at:

<http://www.mayindoorair.com/photo.htm>

C. May

May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

1522 Cambridge Street

Cambridge, MA 02139

www.mayindoorair.com

www.myhouseiskillingme.com

conestogarovers writes:

> I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and

> requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing

> on/inside insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has

> acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client

> would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so,

> what should be done for remediation.

>

> Darren

[Guest guest]

Ditto what said.

N. Walsh

Louisiana State University

Health & Safety Officer

twalsh@...

LSU Home

Re: Mold growth on Fiberglass Insulation

Darren:

Bottom line to your answer... " Should the client be concerned? " ....Hell YES!

(I apologize for my emphasis.) However, I have a few questions. If they

had a flood, and it affected insulation in the duct work, it was either:

VERY high floodwaters - since most ductwork is located in the ceiling or

plenum, or the duct work is under-slab or basement. Which was it?

Moreover, you mention " ... the ductwork which has acoustic and thermal type

insulation wrapped around it. " You need to qualify if the insulation is

outside the ductwork or inside the ductwork. Thermal insulation can be

either, but acoustical is (more often than not) inside the duct work.

Let's assume that the insulation is inside the ductwork and it got wet

(moist or soaked doesn't really matter). Fungi will not grow and amplify on

fiberglass insulation alone. That said, fiberglass acoustical insulation

inside duct work is always (unless fresh from the factory) loaded with

particulates from the air, e.g., spores, dust, plant hairs, epiphelial (sp)

cells, etc., etc. These particulates offer both inoculums (spores) and food

for the biologicals to grow (both fungi and bacteria). The fiberglass

insulation only offers a media to grow on; and a good media at that. When

ductwork insulation gets wet, it becomes really nasty (a technical term!)

and it can cause a significant and substantial IAQ problem (an

understatement). Moreover, I have seen some pathetic attempts to clean

ductwork insulation that has become a growth medium; cleaning is often

ineffective, and the duct and insulation must be replaced.

If it were my client, and they had acoustical insulation inside duct work

that got wet and became a growth medium, and the biologicals amplified, I

would recommend total replacement. If the insulation was outside the sheet

metal duct, I would recommend a good cleaning of the ductwork. The status

of the insulation (outside the ductwork) may or may not warrant replacing.

Then again, specific site circumstances may dictate otherwise.

For what it is worth...

--

Geyer, PE, CIH, CSP

President

KENTEC Industries, Inc.

Bakersfield, California

www.kerntecindustries.com

> I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and

> requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing

> on/inside insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has

> acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client

> would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so,

> what should be done for remediation.

>

> Darren

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always

been

> specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material

> available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

political,

> human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues,

etc.

> We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material

as

> provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with

Title

> 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without

profit

> to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included

> information for research and educational purposes. For more information go

to:

> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use

copyrighted

> material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair

use',

> you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Tom,

In looking at fiber analysis for some time,

I don’t believe I’ve ever seen Nylon carpet fibers or fiberglass

insulation mold growth “actually in” the fiber’s matrix. In

my tests, synthetic fibers do not appear to support mold growth except for the

fiber becoming a host for dust and dirt to cling; and from that, mold growth

occurs.

How to separate the growth from fiberglass

is generally not cost effective and I do not know a cleaning (debriding) process

that actually works. It is for this

reason we dispose of insulation because of the bioburden that has accumulated.

Moffett

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of M. Dydek

Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006

12:48 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Mold

growth on Fiberglass Insulation

Dear list,

While it is true

that mold cannot grow on pure fiberglass, my understanding is that if there are

organic materials on the surface of the fiberglass, molds can use these

materials as substrates and grow there. If there is sufficient dust, pet

or human dander, or other organic detritus on the fiberglass, molds can grow on

or in it.

Dydek

Dr. M. Dydek, Ph.D., D.A.B.T., P.E.Chemical Toxicologist and EngineerDydek Toxicology Consulting6013 Cervinus RunAustin, Texas 78735 Web Site: www.tox-expert.comOffice Phone: Office FAX: Mobile Phone: Now Celebrating More Than 10 Years in Business

conestogarovers wrote:

I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing on/inside insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so, what should be done for remediation. Darren

[Guest guest]

Shell,

The flood water typical carries in sufficient organic matter to support

both mold and bacterial growth. the FG insulation is just matrix upon

which these are deposited.

Bob

[Guest guest]

First if it was flood water, or a

classified Black or gray water, it needs to be replaced, however if it was

water from a clean water source, consider the following:

Though mold may not grow on the fiberglass,

any organics that are moved into the insulation with the water along with the

oils on the sheet metal and the accumulated dust from the original construction

before the duct was wrapped; you have a sufficient food source for bacteria and

mold to grow. Additionally if it is internal, insulation there is a dust load

from the normal operation of the equipment, and sometimes-organic glue under

the insulation to act as an additional food source. In the case of externally

wrapped sheet metal, It may have been able to be cut on the bottom to allow the

sides to drain and dried with air and dehumidification then re-taped, however

if it sat for any length of time, it should be replaced. If it is internal

lining, the Air Handling unit blower could have been operated with dehumidified

heated air, and if it was dried in 3 days you may be OK, if not it should be

replaced.

Ron

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of M. Dydek

Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006

3:48 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Mold

growth on Fiberglass Insulation

Dear list,

While it is true

that mold cannot grow on pure fiberglass, my understanding is that if there are

organic materials on the surface of the fiberglass, molds can use these

materials as substrates and grow there. If there is sufficient dust, pet

or human dander, or other organic detritus on the fiberglass, molds can grow on

or in it.

Dydek

Dr. M. Dydek, Ph.D., D.A.B.T., P.E.Chemical Toxicologist and EngineerDydek Toxicology Consulting6013 Cervinus RunAustin, Texas 78735 Web Site: www.tox-expert.comOffice Phone: Office FAX: Mobile Phone: Now Celebrating More Than 10 Years in Business

conestogarovers wrote:

I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing on/inside insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so, what should be done for remediation. Darren

[Guest guest]

When inoculum (of mold spores) is added, mold DOES grow on the binder of NEW uninstalled fiberglass . The extend of mold growth observed is very minimal (only microscopic) either the nutrient in binder is low or the binder's (also fiberglass') ability to adhere water is low (comparing to other organic materials). Mold needs food AND water (temperature and air are usually not limiting). The major contribution of food source for mold growth in installed fiberglass should be external, e.g. trapped particles, flooded-in organic matter. Many have expressed this already. How much nutrient can the binder contribute to mold growth after those trapped organic matter brings water to it? I don't know. Wei Tang QLAB Jeff May wrote: Darren, Mold cannot subsist on the minerals (glass fibers) in fiberglass insulation, though some people feel that microbial growth can ooccur on the UFFI glue used to bond the fibers. But the bigger issue is nutrient dust. There is virtually nothing manufactured and put into a building that is without biodegradable dust, so wet insulation inevitably gets moldy. If water entered the wrap, it could easily lead to mold growth and the wrap may have to be removed. I often find Cladosporium growing on the outside of the vinyl wrap, presumably using the 8-carbon alcohol in the plasticizer as the nutrient. This could probably also occur at the inside but I have never looked. The same is true for moldy synthetic carpeting. The plastic fibers are virtually non-biodegradable but mold readily grows in the trapped dust when

the relative humdiity is high enough. (I have scanning electron micrographs of mold growing on new carpet fibers at: C. MayMay Indoor Air Investigations LLC1522 Cambridge StreetCambridge, MA 02139www.mayindoorair.comwww.myhouseiskillingme.com conestogarovers writes: > I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and > requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing > on/inside insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has > acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client > would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so, > what should be done for remediation. > > DarrenFAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically

authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

[Guest guest]

I probably should have said that the extend of mold growth in uninstalled fiberglass is "very very minimal". You have to look very hard under microscope to find some hyphae. Wei Tang QLABWei Tang wrote: When inoculum (of mold spores) is added, mold DOES grow on the binder of NEW uninstalled fiberglass . The extend of mold growth observed is very minimal (only microscopic) either the nutrient in binder is low or the binder's (also fiberglass') ability to adhere water is low (comparing to other organic materials). Mold needs food AND water (temperature and air are usually not limiting). The major contribution of food source for mold growth in installed fiberglass should

be external, e.g. trapped particles, flooded-in organic matter. Many have expressed this already. How much nutrient can the binder contribute to mold growth after those trapped organic matter brings water to it? I don't know. Wei Tang QLAB Jeff May wrote: Darren, Mold cannot subsist on the minerals (glass fibers) in fiberglass insulation, though some people feel that microbial growth can ooccur on the UFFI glue used to bond the fibers. But the bigger issue is nutrient dust. There is virtually nothing manufactured and put into a building that is without biodegradable dust, so wet insulation inevitably gets moldy. If water entered the wrap, it could easily lead to mold

growth and the wrap may have to be removed. I often find Cladosporium growing on the outside of the vinyl wrap, presumably using the 8-carbon alcohol in the plasticizer as the nutrient. This could probably also occur at the inside but I have never looked. The same is true for moldy synthetic carpeting. The plastic fibers are virtually non-biodegradable but mold readily grows in the trapped dust when the relative humdiity is high enough. (I have scanning electron micrographs of mold growing on new carpet fibers at: C. MayMay Indoor Air Investigations LLC1522 Cambridge StreetCambridge, MA 02139www.mayindoorair.comwww.myhouseiskillingme.com conestogarovers writes: > I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and > requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing > on/inside

insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has > acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client > would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so, > what should be done for remediation. > > DarrenFAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and

educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

[Guest guest]

After doing several " flooding " type jobs, it has been my experience that

mold can and will grow on fiberglass insulation. The method for remediating

the situation = Remove and replace the insulation. Simple.

Nichole

Mold growth on Fiberglass Insulation

>I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and

> requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing

> on/inside insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has

> acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client

> would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so,

> what should be done for remediation.

>

> Darren

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always

> been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

> material available in our efforts to advance understanding of

> environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific,

> and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use'

> of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US

> Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the

> material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have

> expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for

> research and educational purposes. For more information go to:

> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use

> copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go

> beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

>

[Guest guest]

Let me say this - I have seen mold growing on fiberglass insulation, not

that it is necessarily growing on the fiber glass itself, but other

materials within do allow for it (mold) to grow...I have pics of it. And

again, my suggestion is to have the insulation removed.

Just an opinion.

Mold growth on Fiberglass Insulation

>I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and

> requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing

> on/inside insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has

> acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client

> would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so,

> what should be done for remediation.

>

> Darren

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always

> been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

> material available in our efforts to advance understanding of

> environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific,

> and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use'

> of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US

> Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the

> material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have

> expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for

> research and educational purposes. For more information go to:

> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use

> copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go

> beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks , the flood was actually on the third floor of the office

building which in turn dispersed throughout the lower floors using

whatever routes were available. The ductwork was wrapped with the

insulation and not inside the ductwork.

Thanks again

Re: Mold growth on Fiberglass Insulation

Darren:

Bottom line to your answer... " Should the client be concerned? " ....Hell

YES!

(I apologize for my emphasis.) However, I have a few questions. If

they had a flood, and it affected insulation in the duct work, it was

either:

VERY high floodwaters - since most ductwork is located in the ceiling or

plenum, or the duct work is under-slab or basement. Which was it?

Moreover, you mention " ... the ductwork which has acoustic and thermal

type insulation wrapped around it. " You need to qualify if the

insulation is outside the ductwork or inside the ductwork. Thermal

insulation can be either, but acoustical is (more often than not) inside

the duct work.

Let's assume that the insulation is inside the ductwork and it got wet

(moist or soaked doesn't really matter). Fungi will not grow and

amplify on fiberglass insulation alone. That said, fiberglass

acoustical insulation inside duct work is always (unless fresh from the

factory) loaded with particulates from the air, e.g., spores, dust,

plant hairs, epiphelial (sp) cells, etc., etc. These particulates offer

both inoculums (spores) and food for the biologicals to grow (both fungi

and bacteria). The fiberglass insulation only offers a media to grow

on; and a good media at that. When ductwork insulation gets wet, it

becomes really nasty (a technical term!) and it can cause a significant

and substantial IAQ problem (an understatement). Moreover, I have seen

some pathetic attempts to clean ductwork insulation that has become a

growth medium; cleaning is often ineffective, and the duct and

insulation must be replaced.

If it were my client, and they had acoustical insulation inside duct

work that got wet and became a growth medium, and the biologicals

amplified, I would recommend total replacement. If the insulation was

outside the sheet metal duct, I would recommend a good cleaning of the

ductwork. The status of the insulation (outside the ductwork) may or

may not warrant replacing.

Then again, specific site circumstances may dictate otherwise.

For what it is worth...

--

Geyer, PE, CIH, CSP

President

KENTEC Industries, Inc.

Bakersfield, California

www.kerntecindustries.com

> I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and

> requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing

> on/inside insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has

> acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client

> would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so,

> what should be done for remediation.

>

> Darren

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

> This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not

always been

> specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such

material

> available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental,

political,

> human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice

issues, etc.

> We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted

material as

> provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance

with Title

> 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed

without profit

> to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included

> information for research and educational purposes. For more

information go to:

> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use

copyrighted

> material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair

use',

> you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

>

[Guest guest]

> Wei Tang wrote:

> When inoculum (of mold spores) is added, mold DOES grow on the

binder of NEW uninstalled fiberglass . The extend of mold growth

observed is very minimal (only microscopic) either the nutrient in

binder is low or the binder's (also fiberglass') ability to adhere

water is low (comparing to other organic materials). Mold needs

food AND water (temperature and air are usually not limiting).

>

> The major contribution of food source for mold growth in

installed fiberglass should be external, e.g. trapped particles,

flooded-in organic matter. Many have expressed this already. How

much nutrient can the binder contribute to mold growth after those

trapped organic matter brings water to it? I don't know.

>

> Wei Tang

> QLAB

Even without a microscope, it appears to my unducated eyes that

mold is fully capable of " bridging " gaps without substrate or water

by simply extending itself along strands of fiberglass and " passing

along " the essentials.

It is spectacularly obvious that mold bridges itself a fair

distance from sources of water. Is there any reason to believe that

it does not also transport nutrients from the closest available

substrate as it does this?

-

[Guest guest]

I am thinking that if the source has been cut off and the areas allowed to dry out then the chances of growth will certainly be minimal at best. Would this be a fair assumption?

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Ron Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:53 PMTo: iequality Subject: RE: Mold growth on Fiberglass Insulation

First if it was flood water, or a classified Black or gray water, it needs to be replaced, however if it was water from a clean water source, consider the following:

Though mold may not grow on the fiberglass, any organics that are moved into the insulation with the water along with the oils on the sheet metal and the accumulated dust from the original construction before the duct was wrapped; you have a sufficient food source for bacteria and mold to grow. Additionally if it is internal, insulation there is a dust load from the normal operation of the equipment, and sometimes-organic glue under the insulation to act as an additional food source. In the case of externally wrapped sheet metal, It may have been able to be cut on the bottom to allow the sides to drain and dried with air and dehumidification then re-taped, however if it sat for any length of time, it should be replaced. If it is internal lining, the Air Handling unit blower could have been operated with dehumidified heated air, and if it was dried in 3 days you may be OK, if not it should be replaced.

Ron

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of M. DydekSent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 3:48 PMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Mold growth on Fiberglass Insulation

Dear list,While it is true that mold cannot grow on pure fiberglass, my understanding is that if there are organic materials on the surface of the fiberglass, molds can use these materials as substrates and grow there. If there is sufficient dust, pet or human dander, or other organic detritus on the fiberglass, molds can grow on or in it. Dydek Dr. M. Dydek, Ph.D., D.A.B.T., P.E.Chemical Toxicologist and EngineerDydek Toxicology Consulting6013 Cervinus RunAustin, Texas 78735 Web Site: www.tox-expert.comOffice Phone: Office FAX: Mobile Phone: Now Celebrating More Than 10 Years in Business

conestogarovers wrote:I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing on/inside insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so, what should be done for remediation. Darren

[Guest guest]

Darren,

The answer, “it depends.” Go

through a decision logic approach to problem solving.

1. How long were the materials wet?

2. What is the integrity of the material insulation? Meaning, how old

is it, what condition is it in, has it been affected by water damage

previously?

3. Was the insulation originally installed properly?

4. If the insulation is a loose batt or blown in

insulation, how much loft has it lost? How about the loss of its “R”

factor?

5. Depending how often the outside walls breathe will determine how

much dust has built-up in walls and ceilings.

6. Knowing how dirty and dusty the walls are will help determine how

much organic load will support mold growth.

7. What type of accelerated drying process was used and was it able to

dry wet insulation within the first 24, 48, 72 hours?

8. In the use of science, what does your moisture meters tell you? Were

grab samples collected from affected and non-affected insulation and tested for

total spores and culturability?

9. Are there construction defect conditions that may allow secondary growth

to occur?

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Gardiner, Darren

Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006

9:41 AM

To: iequality

Subject: RE: Mold

growth on Fiberglass Insulation

I am thinking that if the source has been

cut off and the areas allowed to dry out then the chances of growth will

certainly be minimal at best. Would this be a fair assumption?

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Ron

Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006

8:53 PM

To: iequality

Subject: RE: Mold

growth on Fiberglass Insulation

First if it was flood water, or a

classified Black or gray water, it needs to be replaced, however if it was

water from a clean water source, consider the following:

Though mold may not grow on the fiberglass,

any organics that are moved into the insulation with the water along with the

oils on the sheet metal and the accumulated dust from the original construction

before the duct was wrapped; you have a sufficient food source for bacteria and

mold to grow. Additionally if it is internal, insulation there is a dust load

from the normal operation of the equipment, and sometimes-organic glue under

the insulation to act as an additional food source. In the case of externally

wrapped sheet metal, It may have been able to be cut on the bottom to allow the

sides to drain and dried with air and dehumidification then re-taped, however

if it sat for any length of time, it should be replaced. If it is internal

lining, the Air Handling unit blower could have been operated with dehumidified

heated air, and if it was dried in 3 days you may be OK, if not it should be replaced.

Ron

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of M. Dydek

Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006

3:48 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Mold

growth on Fiberglass Insulation

Dear list,

While it is true that mold cannot grow on pure

fiberglass, my understanding is that if there are organic materials on the

surface of the fiberglass, molds can use these materials as substrates and grow

there. If there is sufficient dust, pet or human dander, or other organic

detritus on the fiberglass, molds can grow on or in it.

Dydek

Dr. M. Dydek, Ph.D., D.A.B.T., P.E.Chemical Toxicologist and EngineerDydek Toxicology Consulting6013 Cervinus RunAustin, Texas 78735 Web Site: www.tox-expert.comOffice Phone: Office FAX: Mobile Phone: Now Celebrating More Than 10 Years in Business

conestogarovers wrote:

I have a client who has had a flood inside their office building and requires some guidance on whether or not mold is capable of growing on/inside insulation. The area of concern is the ductwork which has acoustic and thermal type insulation wrapped around it. The client would like to know if it has the potential for mold growth and if so, what should be done for remediation. Darren

[Guest guest]

Extending hyphae to gain access to water and nutrients is certainly what mold does, but not without limits. One mm may seems a very short distance to us, but it would be a very long journey for mold to go. When the mold growth is more established (more biomass), they can go further. When it starts with one spore, it won't germinate and can't go too far without water. This is usually not a problem on other mold growth substrate, e.g. paper on sheet rock, ceiling tile, cellulose insulation, etc., since water can easily travel through them. The nutrients AND/OR water being the limiting factors for limited mold growth observed in new uninstalled fiberglass is only a hypothesis (from me). Study done on new uninstalled fiberglass under laboratory setup is purely experimental. Water can certainly travel much further in old installed fiberglass with trapped particles. Wei Tang QLAB erikmoldwarrior wrote: > Wei Tang wrote:> When inoculum (of mold spores) is added, mold DOES grow on the binder of NEW uninstalled fiberglass . The extend of mold growth observed is very minimal (only microscopic) either the nutrient in binder is low or the binder's (also fiberglass') ability to adhere water is low (comparing to other organic materials). Mold needs food AND water (temperature and air are usually not limiting). > > The major contribution of food source for mold growth in installed fiberglass should be external, e.g. trapped particles, flooded-in organic matter. Many have expressed this already. How much nutrient can the binder contribute to mold growth after those trapped

organic matter brings water to it? I don't know. > > Wei Tang> QLABEven without a microscope, it appears to my unducated eyes that mold is fully capable of "bridging" gaps without substrate or water by simply extending itself along strands of fiberglass and "passing along" the essentials.It is spectacularly obvious that mold bridges itself a fair distance from sources of water. Is there any reason to believe that it does not also transport nutrients from the closest available substrate as it does this?-FAIR USE NOTICE:This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair

use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

[Guest guest]

At 12:40 PM 4/20/2006, you wrote:

I am thinking that if the source has been

cut off and the areas allowed to dry out then the chances of growth will

certainly be minimal at best. Would this be a fair

assumption?

Aha! I was waiting for my in. No, just letting the fiberglass

dry out would not necessarily fix the problem. I had one really

perplexing problem where an attic converted to living space had an

intermittent moldy odor. When the attic was built, previous

insulation in the joists was not removed when the new floor for the

living space was added. At the same time, a new roof was installed

by a rather unscrupulous person (as an example, the guy used carpentry

nails to install the shingles instead of roofing nails.

Flashing? The guy didn't have a clue what that was.)

Well, the roof leaked and saturated some of the old insulation.

Despite the insulation being dried out and damaged plasterboard being

removed, the moldy odor appeared again. However, the odor was

greatest on very humid days. After removal of the insulation, the

problem did not reoccur.

The reason the odors were coming and going, I surmised, was that mold

needs moisture mostly to germinate. After germination, mold can

grow in less moist conditions and even transfer moisture via hyphae from

one point to another. Some molds can grow throughout a wide range

of moisture conditions. In this case, we suspected that Penicillium

was the stinky culprit. Some molds can just go dormant and wait for

the right moisture conditions. In the Ohio Valley, our humid days

provided enough moisture to kick things into gear. I don't think it

takes a lot of mold to create enough stink to both some people. The

mold growth can also be dispersed throughout the insulation in very small

colonies and not located in large recognizable colonies. A whole

lotta little stinkers can create as much smell as one large one.

BTW, the reason I talk about stink is because I have usually found that

the odor is what people complain about. Sampling usually shows very

little useful information.

As for debris, as others have said, even if the insulation arrives

squeaky clean from the factory, which I doubt, after getting drug around

on floors, blown into dust laden joist and wall cavities, etc., the

fiberglass is bound to contain the spores and foods needed for

growth. Furthermore, if the insulation is in even a short amount of

time, air traveling through the fiberglass via leaks in the building are

going to deposit debris. Insulation tends to work like a filter

that way. If you need examples, look at the insulation around

ceiling lights, pipes, ducts, etc. that are air leak sources. One

more thing to remember is that previous mold growth always is a food

source for subsequent mold growth.

BTW, before anyone asks how we knew it was insulation, the answer was

anecdotal. Once the insulation was removed, the problem was

gone. And this case is not the only one where this situation has

occurred and been remedied the same way.

******************************************************

If what is written looks too stupid to be written by me, I disclaim

it. On

the other hand, if it is brilliant, then I have no one to blame but

myself.

Otherwise, whether you choose to accept my opinion is up to you.

******************************************************

K. Klein, PE ME, MBA

Indoor Air Quality Solutions, Inc.

2523 SR 133

Bethel, OH 45106-0007

VOICE:

FAX: (with notice)

E-mail: mkklein68@...

*******************************************************

Wouldn't it be nice if common sense were really common?