Re: ThermaPure‚s marketing efforts (Validated by: Geyer)

[Guest guest]

Bob/Ma:

I sense a bit of sarcasm in your post, and comments based on speculation not experience. For your edification I will respond to your questions, but first.... I apologize for those that are on this IEQuality that have to hear this again, for Bob’s sake. He must not be reading earlier posts here, where I was asked similar questions re ThermaPure. For those that read my earlier responses, you may want to ignore this post as I provide Bob some background, AGAIN, regarding my relationship with ThermaPUre and why I promote heat as a method to treat buildings of moisture, biologicals, and VOCs; I do not promote ThermaPure!

Bob....Do you drink raw milk or pasteurized milk? If you do not drink raw milk...why? Do you understand the concept, theory, and practice of pasteurization?, because this is similar to what ThermaPure has perfected.

In my days of construction, I heated and dried-out a lot of buildings that got wet; hundreds of buildings. I have been building since the mid-1970s and have worked on thousands of structures. Bob....Have you ever built built a home, residential building, or other structure? Are you a builder? Have you ever use kiln-dried lumber? I have my successes and failures heating buildings, and a lot of it came during a time when most of my work involved the R & R of rotten bathroom floors in off-campus student housing. I saw A LOT of mold and rot and bugs, and the best and quickest way to dry it out, make it safe, and kill the biologicals was to heat it and bake the crap out of the affected area. Bob...Have you ever, YOURSELF, demolished wet and slimy building materials? It is much easier to handle the material when it is dry, isn’t it?!?

Bob...I do not promote TheraPure. I do promote heating structures to mitigate moisture, biologicals, and VOCs/odors. I do this because IT WORKS! Does it work in all instances...No! I never said it did. Moreover, I find that almost all folks that criticize heat treatment are those that speculate, cite AIHA and EPA references written by scientists who have little to no practical building experience, and, more often than not, have no practical building experience themselves. Bob...Can you cite me a construction reference that states that heat treatment is not effective? When you says things like...”I am not convinced that ThermaPure is a good selection for remediation/decontamination due to its limits and I have not received any data that supports its claims.”...It tells me that you are speculating, that you have no practical experience to back-up your speculation (other than what you read as published by the AIHA) and that you expect someone to hand you on a silver-platter a bunch of compelling data. Sorry, my data from my work is mine, I paid for it; not you. The data collected from project-work for my clients was paid for by my clients, it is theirs not yours; and I am not going to give it to you. If you desire data on heat treatment, I imagine that ThermaPUre has some...ask them. Pat Moffet recently stated on IEQuality that he “wrote the book on heating buildings”, ask Pat for a copy of his book; I imagine he will sell you a copy. I take exception to some of the things that Pat’s states, Pat is not a builder he is a biologist, but he too recognizes the benefits of heat treating building materials. Also, there are others sources with data that support the benefits of heating buildings and building materials, and these sources are surely not the AIHA, AIAQA, EPA or other “environmental” organizations; they are more aligned with the building industry. Imagine that, the BUILDING INDUSTRY! The AIHA, AIAQA, EPA and others are not based on building science and in my opinion, are sorely lacking in practical building science experience as they dive, head first without head protection, into an industry with a lot of talent, and they are failing to use and/or recognize the talent. You Bob seem to be similarly diving.

Bob...I am not the only one writing about the benefits of heat treatment for buildings and building materials. There are others. ThermaPure asked me for permission to re-print the ICS article. I don’t get paid a dime for it. I write about heat treatment because IT WORKS. I suggest you get some practical experience heat treating; either on your own projects or visit a project where someone else is doing it. There are quite a few ongoing projects to rid a wooden structure of termites, and I believe heat treatment will put fumigators out of business – just contrast and compare the two methods and you too will see the benefits of heat. Bob...Gather your observations, get some experience, them come back and we can pontificate the attributes of heat treatment. Until that time, you are purely speculating and I have not the time nor the inclination to discuss the merits/limits of heat treatment with someone who speaks from a position of inexperience. It is an unpaid teaching effort for the ignorant. And I being a consultant, much like an attorney, solder-of-fortune and prostitute, appreciate getting paid for my time. Pony-up my hourly rate and I will sit with you anytime, your place or mine.

For what it is worth...

--

Geyer, PE, CIH, CSP

President

KERNTEC Industries, Inc.

Bakersfield, California

www.kerntecindustries.com

All,

Has anyone else still getting these emails? Geyer is making

it on the spotlight with ThermaPure. Is this a marriage made in

heaven?

>This year ICS Cleaning Specialist featured ThermaPureHeat® as an

>innovative technology in the marketplace. The process has gained

>renown in the restoration and mold remediation industries as a

>powerful tool to accompany traditional biological remediation

>methods.

> Geyer, PE, CIH wrote an article (ICS Cleaning Specialist,

>November 2006) on how this technology, when used in conjunction

>with traditional remediation, may be the best available control

>technology for biological remediation. This article may be found

>in our library at www.thermapure.com.

>To become a ThermaPure® licensee please visit our website at

>www.thermapure.com or call us at .

>Sincerely,

> Medina

It appears to me that ThermaPure's greatest asset is our own

Geyer and the article he has written. I would like to see data that

has gone through peer review and not just an article written and

signed.

I offer according to the " Bioaerosols Assessment & Control " it is

stated under 16.1.1 Biocides..... Physical disinfection mechanisms

such as ionizing or thermal radiation are impractical for treating

biological contamination in building environments and therefore are

not discussed.

Now one may argue that advances has moved forward after print i.e.

techniques, containment, etc.. but if we look further at under

16.2.5 sub title " Gas-Phase/Vapor-Phase Biocides " it reads ...

However several gas-phase biocides work well to decontaminate small

confined areas.

Therefore based on the 16.2.5 it appears that the heat treatment was

not ignored, but to be inadequate for decontaminating the

dwelling/building due to the gas-phase biocides were tested in

smaller areas along with other biocides. I am adding above to the

many other comments that have been offered on this listserv

surrounding ThermaPure's new licensing opportunities and statements

which appears to be supported my Geyer.

, to your defense, I am not saying it couldn't be

successfully used to quickly for drying out buildings to prevent or

minimized microbial growth, although that is not what is being

promoted in the email flyer I received. The email flyer reads as

follows:

>Technology in Cleaning and Restoration

>Professional cleaning and restoration technicians are always

>searching for equipment and technology to help them do their jobs

>better and more efficiently. For the fourth consecutive year, ICS

>Cleaning Specialist looks at some of the innovative equipment and

>technologies making their way into the industry.

>Now keep in mind, this is not a " Best of the Best " list; it is a

>chance to see and read about some of the equipment making its way

>to the marketplace.

>Principles and long-accepted methodologies need not be shattered in

>order for something to be innovative. Some may have already seen

>some of this technology at various trade shows and exhibitions,

>while others are getting their first look at what the cleaning and

>restoration industries have to say about some of the latest

>developments as we head into 2007.

>Mold Remediation

>Thermapure, also known as structural pasteurization, is a process

>that essentially pasteurizes a building, or a portion of a

>building. This is a chemical-free process and is much more complex

>than simply applying heat to a structure or an architectural

>element. In general, the process heats a structure directly, via

>propane-fired heaters, or indirectly via boilers outside the

>structure.

>In addition to heating, the process involves a large number of fans

>and ducting to evenly distribute heated air within the building

>and/or treatment area, and heat-tolerant fan units equipped with

>HEPA filters to scrub the air clean and physically remove biomass

>and aerosols.

.... I am not convinced that ThermaPure is a good selection for

remediation/decontamination due to its limits and I have not

received any data that supports its claims.

, could you please present to this list all your data which

supports your position and purpose for promoting the ThermaPure

techniques as written and outlined in your article and this flyer. I

wouldn't normally request this information after we have discussed

this prior except you appear to be their best foundation for which

they base its effectiveness.

Bob/Ma.