Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 How could the folks that know about this let it continue?www.asbestosbeach.com The question is not "How" the question is "Why". Can you say "MONEY"? . Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Dana, I am very familiar with this situation. The reason why is the state would have to pay the clean up costs since they signed an agreement to let W R Grace off the hook years ago. Yet, at the same time IDPH takes the extreme other position and claims that 4 chipped floor tiles in a school requires a response action, with a project design, abatement firm, air testing, and so on. This position is totally unjustified and posses no risk to anyone. Interesting, how who pays for the cost, changes the regulatory enforcement. When it does not make sense, follow the money. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Dana: A very interesting web site regarding contaminated beach sand. Maybe true, maybe not. In two locations, the text of the web site states that beach sand is contaminated with tremolite asbestos. (FYI - Similarly so are many soils in Arizona and California, and my property has a significant outcropping of tremolite - a beautiful olive-green crystalline rock!) However, the center photo clearly shows what I believe to be a fragment of pipe insulation, and to the best of my recollection pipe insulation was manufactured with chrysotille and amosite asbestos; tremolite was, at best, only a trace contaminant in pipe insulation - it was not a principle ingredient. Based on this, I believe there may be some miss-information in the web-site. Moreover, tremolite is a common mineral in many soils in the U.S....so what does this mean?? Is it naturally occurring or is it a manufactured waste. The web-site implies the beach sand is an asbestos waste, but it does not suggest an origin. Do not believe everything you read; especially on the Web. That said, I know a location near San Diego where a lot of TSI was unearthed when a home-owner went to install (excavate for) a swimming pool in their backyard. Based on the bags of TSI and associated wastes, the TSI originated from ships, possibly Navy ships. At the time (and this was several years ago) no one (i.e., the Military, the Feds, or the State) wanted to take responsibility for what evils might lie under the residential community. Albeit, no one was being exposed unless they were digging a hole greater than 6-ft deep. -- Geyer, PE, CIH, CSP President KENTEC Industries, Inc. Bakersfield, California www.kerntecindustries.com > www.asbestosbeach.com This E-mail scanned for spam and viruses by ATG Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 THe WR Grace contribution is a small part of the Ill. Asbestos Beach, the main part came from the JM plant. THe Superfund site there washed out to the lake, and there were tons of wastes dumped into the lake frtom JM and WR Grace. Thank god we are considering giving them liability protection too with the FAIR act. This was another of the so called " Project XL " sites. There are 23 or 29 of those depending on how you count. That's why there is such anomosity from the consultants and contractors nationwide toward the " regulators " who are acting as inexperienced and unlicensed consultants. This was the group I was talking about that needs to be " kicked out " of the associations. These " wiz-kids " get a promotion instead of an gramd jury investigation. I follow the money here, at the Ft. Worth " Wet Method " site, and at the St. Loius Airport site. All are about asbestos and demos. All are cities taking possession of land and not the consequences of ownership. The " money " is in corrupt city governments, greedy developers, and local political hacks. The Developer gets a stack of cash, the politician gets a " project " to tout as an " accomplishment " , and the regulators strut around like they are " working hard " to protect the public! It makes we wanna puke! The taxpayer then gets fleeced for the cleanup. THe " First Wave " may have been from unbridled corperate interests, the " second wave " from servicing " economy " first over peoples safety, the " third wave " was from those who chose not to comply with regulations, the " fourth wave " clearly lies with the cities and the regulated communities ie governments not complying with or enforcing their own laws. I think this is changing. Word is that EPA Region 7 is getting named as a co defendant in the St. Louis Airport debacle. And as you say Bob, the very same regulatory agency goes into a tizzy when a few floor files break while being removed with hand methods while wet!! The economies of scale cry out for a balance. The Ill. EPA, and EPA in that region should have quite a black eye on this one. > > Dana, > > I am very familiar with this situation. The reason why is the state > would have to pay the clean up costs since they signed an agreement to > let W R Grace off the hook years ago. > > Yet, at the same time IDPH takes the extreme other position and claims > that 4 chipped floor tiles in a school requires a response action, with > a project design, abatement firm, air testing, and so on. This > position is totally unjustified and posses no risk to anyone. > > Interesting, how who pays for the cost, changes the regulatory > enforcement. > > When it does not make sense, follow the money. > > Bob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Dana, IDPH commissioned an air test at the park in the middle of winter with the sand frozen. They paid the consultant $250/hr. to do " aggresive " testing on this frozen sand - hence no problem found!! As for where the asb game from. There is a WRG asbestos land fill right off the beach. The runoff from the land fill contains billions of asb fibers. IDPH and EPA gave them the okay to dump the run off into the lake years ago- some times like 6,000,000,000 fiber/ml as a " acceptable " discharge level. Needless to say after 20 years a lot of asb has washed up on the beaches. As for the chuncs of asb. WRG dumped in the lake -with IDPH and EPA approval. They just dumped it about 1 mile out and now it is washing up on shore. The legal suits on this one are interesting. FOI requests unfilled. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 If you read all the letters on the site (I have the time and the interest) the chrysotile that came into the JM plant had a high degree of contamination with tremolite. The JM company did not make pipe insulation (although they did store it and their pipes were insulated with it) they made asbestos cement pipe. This has both Chrysotile and crocidolite in it. The gentleman that produced the reports was a very unwilling participant in the affair. ANd NO I do not believe or even think that there is hype here. Yes it does suggest the " Source " it is from dredging and beach replinishment. The stuff is dredged up south of the beach, hauled north of the beach and " replinished " there from a feeder beach at the Con Ed Power plant. All the way down to waekeagan Harbor. Then just repeat. The dredge material is filled with lots of mashed and crushed transite pipe and TSI. And all the other asbestos waste that was dumped in this area. Transporting and transferring and re- entraining asbestos wastes. THAT is what is so bad. And the fine taxpayers of Illinois and maybe the US of A may just get to pay for it. If there is a problem it is on the City and the regulators side. Bob can fill you in more he is in Chicago. I know all about Tremolite as a " native " soil contaminant. Tremolitic talc is acutally degrading from Tremolite to talc. And YES theere are quite a few concerned citizens in the Eldarado Hills area in Cali too. They shut down a couple of recreation areas there because of the fiber levels. SO no the tremolite that is naturally occuring is not " news " to me. You may want to check out the Asbestos Strategies Report and the Asbestos Project Plan and get up to date on how EPA has shifted their policy on these issues. Polution is pollution. The polluter pays, they are the ones who put it there. It is a center piece of our environmental laws and has been eroded too much already, whether or not it is exposing to anybody is NOT the issue. What is the issue is is a carelessly palced material that has the potential to do bad things. > > > www.asbestosbeach.com > > > > > > > > > This E-mail scanned for spam and viruses by ATG Internet. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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