Re: Bioaerosols Assessment & Controls vs. Bioaerosols Handbook

[Guest guest]

Group,

I posted a link for clarification

purposes. Can anyone comment on the two different Bioaerosols.

Bioaerosols Handbook: http://amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-7572725-4761754?url=search-alias%3Daps & field-keywords=bioaerosols+Handbook

Bioaerosols Assessment & Controls: http://www.amazon.com/Bioaerosols-Assessment-Control-Janet-Macher/dp/1882417291/sr=8-1/qid=1164674025/ref=sr_1_1/102-7572725-4761754?ie=UTF8 & s=books

2 Different books

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Mark Doughty

Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006

1:15 PM

To: iequality

Subject: RE: Re:

Clearance testing & ... The Rosen Express

Anyone read the Bioaerosoal handbook?

Cover to cover more than once. I have

also used it in litigation to debunk my opponent’s sampling methodology.

Mark Doughty

[Guest guest]

Wayne,

Why do you reply with what appears to be arrogance? What I notice is when someone can’t establish their position; they begin to discredit their opponent much like you attempted to do with my spelling.

Dude,

How could you have been lurking all this time and NOT know that it's Wane, just Wane? You aren't entitled to an opinion about the correct way to spell his name. I think his point was that you aren't paying attention to some of the details in the posts and still couldn't take the not-so-subtle hint that there isn't a "y" in his name.

Steve

[Guest guest]

Wayne,

Why do you reply with what appears to be arrogance?

What I notice is when someone can’t establish their position; they begin

to discredit their opponent much like you attempted to do with my spelling. You

likewise misspelled in your reply. I do not feel one’s spelling

discredits their understanding of the vocations they practice. Consider this, Bill

Gates made a lot of money selling professionals Microsoft Word because of its

ability to correct spelling errors; even the general public has benefited from

it.

Slamming is not healthy in the overall process.

Everyone here knows you have an understanding of your vocation and I admire you

for that. I have watched your input over the years and agree with most of what

you offer. What I admire more is one who can teach without demeaning another while

doing so. I hope this is not a pattern of preferred method used in the home to

educate your wife and/or children.

Now I asked a reasonable question between

the two documents. To answer your question: I have clearly read and reread the

Bioaerosols Assessments & Controls as well many other documents without

going into detail. I have used them to discredit my client’s opponents in

large monetary cases.

I was not aware (and I have the guts to

admit) of the “Bioaerosols Handbook” as a separate document. I

thought it was no more than a condensed version of the Bioaerosols Assessment

& Controls.” Now if you would like to slam me for that go ahead

if it makes you feel larger than life.

Though I have not worked with you thus

far, and neither you with me, I will still offer you respect. My only concern

here is the slamming one on another. If someone is misinformed or giving

misinformation can we, rather than slamming them, just asked them to provide

supportive documentation and/or explain more clearly their belief? With all of

the talent here I do not feel any misinformation will get buy everyone without

getting addressed by someone. This has proven out throughout time on this list.

I also see some have strong emotional

affections towards what they believe and they may even be right (they may not).

Even if they are not right I feel it still does not give one the right to

degrade another. Lets just help them understand what is clearly accurate and if

they choose to not accept the information that is their problem.

Wayne, I do recognize you have a lot to offer

and thank you in advance for your time experience and knowledge.

I ask this question; has anyone read “Fierce

Conversations?” I highly recommend it.

Peace,

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Wane A. Baker

Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006

12:19 AM

To: iequality

Subject: Re:

Bioaerosols Assessement & Controls vs Bioaerosols Handbook

Mr.

Hawley, aka, Bob/Ma:

(why do

you have two names on this group?)

your true

colors are shining through, not only in your lack of familiarity with the 1999

ACGIH Bioaerosols " handbook " , but in your spelling, too. have

you been in this business long enough to havec a working familiarity with the

ACGIH 1989

" handbook " ? (I suspect not.)

I have

long owned and studied all three. start with the ACGIH 1999

publication. hold off on the " Bioaerosol Handbook " ( &

Wathes, [Eds], CRC Press, 1995) until you've read, re-read and understood the

ACGIH manual.

until

such time as you're fully versed on both (or at least the first), please stop

pontificating on this listserv.

good

luck, and happy reading!

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH

Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality

MICHAELS ENGINEERING

" Real Professionals. Real Solutions. "

Phone , ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wabmichaelsengineering

On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com

" To

love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more

fun? "

- Graham

> >

> > Anyone read the Bioaerosoal handbook?

> > Cover to cover more than once. I have also used it in litigation to

> > debunk my opponent's sampling methodology.

> > Mark Doughty

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob from Massachusetts, While I haven't read the book I do keep the two cassette audio book in the car and enjoy the listen when I travel. There's a bit to learn from that book so I enjoy it on long trips. Much was said about belligerent conversation and the point was made about how honey attracts more than vinegar. While Wane may not be the sweetest guy in the world he has on occasion been able to set the facts straight. Maybe Wane can be induced to buy the audio book for his next trip or maybe I'll send him my copy for Christmas. I enjoy your comments Bob.... Thanks... Ken Gibala ==================== RE: Re: Bioaerosols Assessment & Controls vs. Bioaerosols HandbookWayne,Why do you reply with what appears to be arrogance? What I notice is when someone can't establish their position; they begin to discredit their opponent much like you attempted to do with my spelling. You likewise misspelled in your reply. I do not feel one's spelling discredits their understanding of the vocations they practice. Consider this, Bill Gates made a lot of money selling professionals Microsoft Word because of its ability to correct spelling errors; even the general public has benefited from it.Slamming is not healthy in the overall process. Everyone here knows you have an understanding of your vocation and I admire you for that. I have watched your input over the years and agree with most of what you offer. What I admire more is one who can teach without demeaning another while doing so. I hope this is not a pattern of preferred method used in the home to educate your wife and/or children. Now I asked a reasonable question between the two documents. To answer your question: I have clearly read and reread the Bioaerosols Assessments & Controls as well many other documents without going into detail. I have used them to discredit my client's opponents in large monetary cases. I was not aware (and I have the guts to admit) of the "Bioaerosols Handbook" as a separate document. I thought it was no more than a condensed version of the Bioaerosols Assessment & Controls." Now if you would like to slam me for that go ahead if it makes you feel larger than life.Though I have not worked with you thus far, and neither you with me, I will still offer you respect. My only concern here is the slamming one on another. If someone is misinformed or giving misinformation can we, rather than slamming them, just asked them to provide supportive documentation and/or explain more clearly their belief? With all of the talent here I do not feel any misinformation will get buy everyone without getting addressed by someone. This has proven out throughout time on this list. I also see some have strong emotional affections towards what they believe and they may even be right (they may not). Even if they are not right I feel it still does not give one the right to degrade another. Lets just help them understand what is clearly accurate and if they choose to not accept the information that is their problem. Wayne, I do recognize you have a lot to offer and thank you in advance for your time experience and knowledge.I ask this question; has anyone read "Fierce Conversations?" I highly recommend it. Peace,Bob/Ma.From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Wane A BakerSent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:19 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Bioaerosols Assessement & Controls vs Bioaerosols HandbookMr. Hawley, aka, Bob/Ma:(why do you have two names on this group?) your true colors are shining through, not only in your lack of familiarity with the 1999 ACGIH Bioaerosols "handbook", but in your spelling, too. have you been in this business long enough to havec a working familiarity with the ACGIH 1989 "handbook"? (I suspect not.)I have long owned and studied all three. start with the ACGIH 1999 publication. hold off on the "Bioaerosol Handbook" ( & Wathes, [Eds], CRC Press, 1995) until you've read, re-read and understood the ACGIH manual. until such time as you're fully versed on both (or at least the first), please stop pontificating on this listserv good luck, and happy reading!Wane<><><><><><><><><><><> Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality MICHAELS ENGINEERING"Real Professionals. Real Solutions." Phone , ext. 484 Cell Fax mailto:wabmichaelsengineering On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com "To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more fun?" - Graham > >> > Anyone read the Bioaerosoal handbook? > > Cover to cover more than once. I have also used it in litigation to> > debunk my opponent's sampling methodology.> > Mark Doughty> >>

[Guest guest]

Boyb:

thank you for your reasoned and well-stated reply. you're right;

please accept my apologies.

I promise it's not arrogance, it's frustration with the seemingly

endless misinformation posted on this list by others.

if indeed you're familiar with the ACGIH 1999 document, it is my

humble opinion that you'll find little of additional benefit in

the " Bioaerosols Handbook " . although I do have copies of both, I

generally reach for, and reference, only the ACGIH text.

thanks again.

respectfully,

Wane

> > >

> > > Anyone read the Bioaerosoal handbook?

> > > Cover to cover more than once. I have also used it in

litigation to

> > > debunk my opponent's sampling methodology.

> > > Mark Doughty

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wayne,

Accepted! You already had my respect; you have

gained even more. You have a lot to offer this listserv and I look forward to

your future input. I agree I have watched the misinformation as well and

believe that it may come with a known or unknown bias. When I meet with various

experts I will state “let us agree; you and I are both bias. Our biases

are based on what we know, what we don’t know, what we have experienced and

what we have not yet experienced. Can we agree?” I leave out “and which

side is paying the bill(s) can create an unknown bias as well.” After

all, we are dealing with humans under pressure (bills due). To not add this information

into the equation is folly and we may miss our own biases.

It confuses me how the misinformation

still exists after all this time. It may not always be based on a beneficial nature.

I have learned its ok to disagree; offer advice and if its not received I go

on. If they accept my opinion or not it really has no reflection on who I am

(only they disagree with me). It tells me they didn’t accept my advice

(maybe I was wrong maybe they lack additional information). As you now, we can’t

possibly teach them all we have learned over the years in a short period of

time (and neither have they paid for it).

Sometimes I have felt like replying to

information passed on this list as factual although I have had to retrain

myself to hold back. Now I just observe and wait to see if the hidden bias will

rise to the occasion (and it does if its there). My wife is a therapist and is

helping me see what most people do not see (free in house therapy).

Thank you for affirming my suspicions

concerning the Bioaerosols Handbook. Wayne,

for the reason you gave is why I never purchased the document. I did not want

to take up additional room (documents, documents, and more documents stored) and

the little time I have to review it if it was a repeat for the most part. I too

rely on the Bioaerosols although some areas I find to be questionable, others

evolving, and others seem conflicting with present truths. For the most part I

enjoy it as a reference. I still believe “Old truth is still present

truth until new truth comes along.” Have you ever heard the one eye giant

is king until a two eyed giant comes along?

When I seen it (the Bioaerosols Handbook) come

across this listserv again I began to think “is there something I am

missing that I should know that this document may offer?” I figured I

could ask and get a reliable answer and thank you again for saving me time and money.

Bob/Ma

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Wane A. Baker

Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006

11:17 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re:

Bioaerosols Assessment & Controls vs. Bioaerosols Handbook

Boyb:

thank you for your reasoned and well-stated reply. you're right;

please accept my apologies.

I promise it's not arrogance, it's frustration with the seemingly

endless misinformation posted on this list by others.

if indeed you're familiar with the ACGIH 1999 document, it is my

humble opinion that you'll find little of additional benefit in

the " Bioaerosols Handbook " . although I do have copies of both, I

generally reach for, and reference, only the ACGIH text.

thanks again.

respectfully,

Wane

> > >

> > > Anyone read the Bioaerosoal handbook?

> > > Cover to cover more than once. I have also used it in

litigation to

> > > debunk my opponent's sampling methodology.

> > > Mark Doughty

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Steve,

OK, I miss it. Come on Steve, I not

charging anyone here….lol. I am about to get eye surgery soon. Sorry Wane!!

My buddy spelled his name “Wayne.”

I assure you it was not intended for harm. Thanks Steve for your help.

See, misinformation (and spelling) will not get buy this listserv (I can

testify). They’re good and pay attention to detail. OK, who in the cross

hairs next?

Bob/Ma

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of AirwaysEnv@...

Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006

11:29 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Re:

Bioaerosols Assessment & Controls vs. Bioaerosols Handbook

In a message dated 11/28/2006 8:23:45 PM

Eastern Standard Time, BobEnvironmentalAirTechs writes:

Wayne,

Why do you reply with what appears to be arrogance? What I notice is when

someone can’t establish their position; they begin to discredit their

opponent much like you attempted to do with my spelling.

Dude,

How could you have been lurking all this time and NOT know that it's Wane, just

Wane? You aren't entitled to an opinion about the correct way to spell

his name. I think his point was that you aren't paying attention to some

of the details in the posts and still couldn't take the not-so-subtle hint that

there isn't a " y " in his name.

Steve

[Guest guest]

Ken,

Thank you for your kind words. I too have

the audio book (1st version). I put it in my iPod. It’s great

to listen to again, especially when traveling. I feel everyone would greatly benefit

from reading it. The next one I am about to read is “Crucial

Conversations Tools for talking when stakes are high). I do not have that one

in audio (yet – if available).

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of kengib .

Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006

9:50 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Re:

Bioaerosols Assessment & Controls vs. Bioaerosols Handbook

Hi Bob from Massachusetts,

While I haven't read the book I do keep the two cassette audio book in

the car and enjoy the listen when I travel.

There's a bit to learn from that book so I enjoy it on long trips.

Much was said about belligerent conversation and the point was made

about how honey attracts more than vinegar.

While Wane may not be the sweetest guy in the world he has on occasion

been able to set the facts straight.

Maybe Wane can be induced to buy the audio book for his next trip or

maybe I'll send him my copy for Christmas.

I enjoy your comments Bob.... Thanks...

Ken Gibala

====================

Re:

Bioaerosols Assessement & Controls vs Bioaerosols Handbook

Mr.

Hawley, aka, Bob/Ma:

(why do

you have two names on this group?)

your true

colors are shining through, not only in your lack of familiarity with the 1999 ACGIH

Bioaerosols " handbook " , but in your spelling, too. have you

been in this business long enough to havec a working familiarity with the ACGIH

1989

" handbook " ? (I suspect not.)

I have

long owned and studied all three. start with the ACGIH 1999 publication.

hold off on the " Bioaerosol Handbook " ( & Wathes, [Eds], CRC

Press, 1995) until you've read, re-read and understood the ACGIH manual.

until

such time as you're fully versed on both (or at least the first), please stop

pontificating on this listserv

good

luck, and happy reading!

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH

Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality

MICHAELS ENGINEERING

" Real Professionals. Real Solutions. "

Phone , ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wabmichaelsengineering

On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com

" To

love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more

fun? "

- Graham

> >

> > Anyone read the Bioaerosoal handbook?

> > Cover to cover more than once. I have also used it in litigation to

> > debunk my opponent's sampling methodology.

> > Mark Doughty

> >

>