Guest guest Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 When we put our little cow-op together here our farmer-ette was the ideal candidate ; smart, full of energy and totally into the RawDairy thing. She was employed at a local commercial dairy, as a milker. Having a cow on her own place was a joy for her. She is such a great gal that I could tell she'd be TOO generous. I warned her to run the thing to suit herself, not the demanding cranky "health-food fanatics" (prime for-instance, moi) who'd invariably come along. And if anyone started getting awkward, to dis-engage politely. Which she has since done. There's such a waiting list that she can afford to be arbitrary about who gets some of the only legitimate supply of REAL MILK in British Columbia.What makes cow-sharing work is the common law principle that what one person may do legally, a syndicate of individuals may do. If it's lawful to drink milk from a cow you own, then, by extension, it's lawful to use and enjoy the dividends ( the milk and other products) from a jointly-held assett. The way to withstand the govt's burdensome demands is to operate outside the world of commerce. That means = in a partnership with private property. Here in B. C., the Ministries of Agriculture and Health have told me that they won't prosecute us for "selling / distributing milk" as long as they don't get any complaints. If and when that happens, the tests will be that those consuming the raw milk are fully-informed as to the risks they let themselve in for, and that the partners have direct "care and control" of the cow(s). The first one is easy. Defining the second will be an interesting excercise. Point being ; , I sympathize with the farmer when it comes to how to contract. They're entitled to do things as they see fit for protecting themselves, and their partners. My advice = get your own cows. Sooner or later you will anyway!_______________>> Hi All,> I've been enjoying reading my daily digests. I am learning alot. > Since I introduced myself a little while ago I met two nice ladies, > one even lives near me. > > I am having trouble finding a cow share. The local one I contacted > doesn't seem to want to work with me because I asked for some changes > in the contract. I felt these changes were necessary to protect our > family from a possible large vet bill liability. The way the > contract was written it looked like we were the sole "owners" of 4 > cows and ALL there attendent costs, not limited to the individual > share(s) owned.> > Did I ask for the impossible? Is that the only way a cow share can > be worded in VA? I am serious in my search for quality and I do want > milk. I think this place had a great operation, everything one would > look for. I feel like perhaps they thought I was out to cause > trouble which is the NOT the case at all; but the contact person > keeps telling me she's working on it but never calls or emails. I > don't want to keep bugging as I feel like I'm getting a very > subtle 'blow off'.> > I am now considering driving to PA to purchase milk. lin County > seems to be the closest, with Waynesboro being about 1.5 hours away. > Is anyone on the list a permit holding producer close to that > location? Is there a closer source? I am not very familiar with PA > as I live near Front Royal, VA.> > Thanks in advance. I'm eagar to keep going in changing our health > and I think this is another huge step in the right direction .> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 This is freaking brilliant Gordon. I think this is absolutely the point. I also like your post down there about Limited Partnerships. Everyone getting raw milk from farmers should think about and look into this. I know I am going to. :-) .... What makes cow-sharing work is the common law principle that what one person may do legally, a syndicate of individuals may do. If it's lawful to drink milk from a cow you own, then, by extension, it's lawful to use and enjoy the dividends ( the milk and other products) from a jointly-held assett. The way to withstand the govt's burdensome demands is to operate outside the world of commerce. That means = in a partnership with private property. .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Gordon, I agree, the farmer must protect herself, but so must I. As the contract is written it states that I own all 4 cows, that I am responsible for $700 + board for each cow every month and that I am responsible for ALL vet bills. As you said, I should get my own cow; perhaps I can get 4 for free since the contract states that I own them. What is to stop me from pulling a trailer up to her farm and loading them up? (As KC pointed out earlier) I am not adverse to signing a release or acknowledgement of the 'inherent dangers' of consuming raw milk. I am however adverse to paying all her expenses if the other, unknown # of shareholders bail out and I've signed this crazy contract. P.S. I'll have to keep the cows in the kitchen as we only have one acre and restrictions against livestock. > > > > > I am having trouble finding a cow share. The local one I contacted > > doesn't seem to want to work with me because I asked for some changes > > in the contract. I felt these changes were necessary to protect our > > family from a possible large vet bill liability. The way the > > contract was written it looked like we were the sole " owners " of 4 > > cows and ALL there attendent costs, not limited to the individual > > share(s) owned. > > > > Did I ask for the impossible? Is that the only way a cow share can > > be worded in VA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 This may be a simple solution: own shares of a cow (or herd) and pay the farmer a "room and board" fee on a per gallon basis. (Price an even per gallon fee fairly to account for peak milk and the dry period.) Commercial dairymen live on per gallon sales, not an even monthly check. Wouldn't you want to own a share of the herd because as I menetioned previously someone could say in worst case scenerio that milk that made them sick may not have been from their cow? ----- Original Message ----- From: kathryn russell I am constantly trying to encourage folks to start a cow share program. 10people could go together, buy a cow, and the 11th person, the farmer, canprovide his equity (for 4 shares) through his infrastructure commitment.Then the maintenance is determined, and divided 10 ways, with the farmerpaying his maintenance in labor. I can guarantee you that there will belabor costs over and above his time for maintenance, and the fee for thecare and work will help to compensate him. www.MajestyFarm.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 For $700 a month, you could get your own cow, a piece of land and milk her yourself. It doesn't cost that much, even for 4 cows. Sounds to me like you are paying her mortgage as well as all the upkeep for these animals. If others are doing the same thing, this person is making out like a bandit.....literally. The amount of times I've had the vet out for Margie is twice in 5.5 years. If the cows are kept healthy with good food and supplements, that much veterinary just care isn't necessary. I think you can find a much better deal and still get good, clean, healthy raw milk. K.C. Re: Finding Milk > Gordon, > I agree, the farmer must protect herself, but so must I. As the > contract is written it states that I own all 4 cows, that I am > responsible for $700 + board for each cow every month and that I am > responsible for ALL vet bills. As you said, I should get my own cow; > perhaps I can get 4 for free since the contract states that I own > them. What is to stop me from pulling a trailer up to her farm and > loading them up? (As KC pointed out earlier) > > I am not adverse to signing a release or acknowledgement of > the 'inherent dangers' of consuming raw milk. I am however adverse > to paying all her expenses if the other, unknown # of shareholders > bail out and I've signed this crazy contract. > > > P.S. I'll have to keep the cows in the kitchen as we only have one > acre and restrictions against livestock. > > >> > >> > > I am having trouble finding a cow share. The local one I > contacted >> > doesn't seem to want to work with me because I asked for some > changes >> > in the contract. I felt these changes were necessary to protect > our >> > family from a possible large vet bill liability. The way the >> > contract was written it looked like we were the sole " owners " of > 4 >> > cows and ALL there attendent costs, not limited to the individual >> > share(s) owned. >> > >> > Did I ask for the impossible? Is that the only way a cow share > can >> > be worded in VA? > > > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 That's how the contract is written, that's not how the actual deal is supposed work. The deal is supposed to be $60/share, plus $18/month. That's why I asked her to change the contract to show that I was only investing for 1 share of 140 possible shares and and the 1-time $60 plus $18/month; not actually responsible for the whole kit and kaboodle. I hope this makes my dilemna a little more clear, and why I asked for changes. We are a 1 income family with 4 kids, we can't risk such a large financial liablity for milk! > > For $700 a month, you could get your own cow, a piece of land and milk her > yourself. It doesn't cost that much, even for 4 cows. Sounds to me like you > are paying her mortgage as well as all the upkeep for these animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Well, ouch! I don't consider myself to be a troublemaker ! I'm not adverse to my share of the responsibility. Perhaps at this point I should give up on VA ( I seem to be making a reputation for myself, lol) and just drive myself to PA and buy 10 gallons once a month and freeze them. I thought the whole idea was to support local farms/farmers, but I don't believe the farmer should hold all the power in the contract. I have no idea how many other share holders there are; and true to our legal system, the smallest/weakest link would get hit if the farmer were to pursue payment for the bill and the other shareholders bailed or were more financial able to protect themselves in a lawsuit; or don't even exist for all I know. Too many unknowns for me. > > There are various ways of working a cowshare sale out. > > I do not sell shares in my herd, as I have personally owned animals, as well > as co-owned animals. > > There is a great deal of demand for fresh milk, and you could possibly be > right, to change the contract for one " troublesome " person may be more > hassle that necessary. > > As far as the vet bills, they should be commensurate with the percentage > that you own. The maintenance fee covers BASIC care, in my case, preg > checks, routine testing, but any extraordinary expenses are born by the > owners, commensurate with their share, and except in emergency they would be > contacted first. The issue of " large vet bills " and " what if the cow dies " > has come up, and basically the answer comes back to what ownership means. > If it is ownership you have liability clear and simple. Otherwise it is, > as the Commonwealth likes to say, a " sham transaction " . > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Basically, that's how I do it. A fee for the share and a per gallon rate for labor. K.C. RE: Finding Milk This may be a simple solution: own shares of a cow (or herd) and pay the farmer a "room and board" fee on a per gallon basis. (Price an even per gallon fee fairly to account for peak milk and the dry period.) Commercial dairymen live on per gallon sales, not an even monthly check. Wouldn't you want to own a share of the herd because as I menetioned previously someone could say in worst case scenerio that milk that made them sick may not have been from their cow? ----- Original Message ----- From: kathryn russell I am constantly trying to encourage folks to start a cow share program. 10people could go together, buy a cow, and the 11th person, the farmer, canprovide his equity (for 4 shares) through his infrastructure commitment.Then the maintenance is determined, and divided 10 ways, with the farmerpaying his maintenance in labor. I can guarantee you that there will belabor costs over and above his time for maintenance, and the fee for thecare and work will help to compensate him. www.MajestyFarm.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Does she limit the amount of milk you can get for the $18/month? I agree that you need to have this spelled out a little clearer for your own peace of mind. I'm surprised she wasn't willing to do that. The $18 isn't bad if you are not limited to a small amount of milk per month. K.C. Re: Finding Milk That's how the contract is written, that's not how the actual deal is supposed work. The deal is supposed to be $60/share, plus $18/month. That's why I asked her to change the contract to show that I was only investing for 1 share of 140 possible shares and and the 1-time $60 plus $18/month; not actually responsible for the whole kit and kaboodle. I hope this makes my dilemna a little more clear, and why I asked for changes. We are a 1 income family with 4 kids, we can't risk such a large financial liablity for milk! > > For $700 a month, you could get your own cow, a piece of land and milk her > yourself. It doesn't cost that much, even for 4 cows. Sounds to me like you > are paying her mortgage as well as all the upkeep for these animals. PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ Archive search: http://onibasu.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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