Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Jody, What does this even mean? I am trying to compute. D. > > RAW > > > > WAR > > > > > RAW > > > > WAR > > > > > RAW > > > > WAR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 > > Jody, > What does this even mean? I am trying to compute. > D. > Hopefully synapses are firing! It just seems that our " war footing " runs broad and deep, and stretches all the way to raw milk and healthy eggs from happy chickens. When things like pastured chickens (NAIS) and raw milk sales fall under the purview of Homeland Security, the War on Terror seems to have gone a bit too far. Where is the hue and cry from defenders of freedom like Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh? Perhaps these are the folks to whom raw milk supportors should be expounding their case. Leaders listen to " public opinion. " Why not go to the folks whove made their careers " shaping " public opinion? I know this may be a verboten political post, but isn't the political arena where most problems begin? Jody Osmund Cedar Valley Sustainable Farm CSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 > It just seems that our " war footing " runs broad and deep, and > stretches all the way to raw milk and healthy eggs from happy chickens. > > When things like pastured chickens (NAIS) and raw milk sales fall > under the purview of Homeland Security, the War on Terror seems to > have gone a bit too far. Where is the hue and cry from defenders of > freedom like Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh? I joined yesterday, and I thought that while politics that are DIRECTLY raw dairy related are permitted, otherwise we are to keep politics off the board. I fail to see how references to Homeland Security, a " war footing " , O'Reilley, and Limbaugh are DIRECTLY related to raw dairy. Less than 12 hours as a group member and already I see bashing, without facts, run amok. Oh well...perhaps there is good information here as well. Bob Hayles Thornberry Village Homestead (goat dairy) Jasper, GA Thornberry Village Homestead...owned by God, managed by Bob and Helen Don't tell God how big the storm is. Tell the storm how big your God is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Hi Bob, I really DO try to keep the political posturings off the list, as the moderator. There are just some that slip through the cracks. Sorry if you were offended. Just know there is a LOT of good info on here as well. ;-) D. moderator > > > > It just seems that our " war footing " runs broad and deep, and > > stretches all the way to raw milk and healthy eggs from happy chickens. > > > > When things like pastured chickens (NAIS) and raw milk sales fall > > under the purview of Homeland Security, the War on Terror seems to > > have gone a bit too far. Where is the hue and cry from defenders of > > freedom like Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh? > > I joined yesterday, and I thought that while politics that are > DIRECTLY raw dairy related are permitted, otherwise we are to keep > politics off the board. > > I fail to see how references to Homeland Security, a " war footing " , > O'Reilley, and Limbaugh are DIRECTLY related to raw dairy. > > Less than 12 hours as a group member and already I see bashing, > without facts, run amok. Oh well...perhaps there is good information > here as well. > > Bob Hayles > Thornberry Village Homestead > (goat dairy) > Jasper, GA > > Thornberry Village Homestead...owned by God, managed by Bob and Helen > > Don't tell God how big the storm is. > Tell the storm how big your God is. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Also Bob, Would you as well, mind sending a self-intro to the whole group? It is a requirement that cannot be bypassed. Thanks, D. moderator > > > > > > > It just seems that our " war footing " runs broad and deep, and > > > stretches all the way to raw milk and healthy eggs from happy chickens. > > > > > > When things like pastured chickens (NAIS) and raw milk sales fall > > > under the purview of Homeland Security, the War on Terror seems to > > > have gone a bit too far. Where is the hue and cry from defenders of > > > freedom like Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh? > > > > I joined yesterday, and I thought that while politics that are > > DIRECTLY raw dairy related are permitted, otherwise we are to keep > > politics off the board. > > > > I fail to see how references to Homeland Security, a " war footing " , > > O'Reilley, and Limbaugh are DIRECTLY related to raw dairy. > > > > Less than 12 hours as a group member and already I see bashing, > > without facts, run amok. Oh well...perhaps there is good information > > here as well. > > > > Bob Hayles > > Thornberry Village Homestead > > (goat dairy) > > Jasper, GA > > > > Thornberry Village Homestead...owned by God, managed by Bob and Helen > > > > Don't tell God how big the storm is. > > Tell the storm how big your God is. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Bob, And therein lies the debate. While one member may see a direct connection with NAIS and the War on Terror (as I do), you may not. I don't see any 'bashing' in the post to which you refer, only name references, and I love Bill O'Reilly and Rush! Give your membership some time, you might be pleasantly surprised by what you see, political or otherwise. Opinions are rarely constrained by facts, LOL. Robin (aka the Garden Goddess) " Though sages may pour out their wisdom's treasure, there is no sterner moralist than pleasure. " Lord Byron -- In RawDairy , " Bob Hayles " wrote: > I joined yesterday, and I thought that while politics that are > DIRECTLY raw dairy related are permitted, otherwise we are to keep > politics off the board. > > I fail to see how references to Homeland Security, a " war footing " , > O'Reilley, and Limbaugh are DIRECTLY related to raw dairy. > > Less than 12 hours as a group member and already I see bashing, > without facts, run amok. Oh well...perhaps there is good information > here as well. > > Bob Hayles > Thornberry Village Homestead > (goat dairy) > Jasper, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Annie, I agree with you to a point, but... 1. I doubt if Limbaugh or O'Reilly have ever said anything about the NAIS. I seriously doubt if they even know that the NAIS program exists. 2. Trying to connect the NAIS to the war on terror is allowing bureaocrats at the USDA to distract you with a red herring of their making. What I mean by this is that politicians, republican and democrat alike, voted for the war on terror in a very general way. They left it to unelected, unaccountable, government-jobs-for-life bureauocrats to come up with the rules, NAIS included. It has very little to do with politics, food safety, or freedoms. It has far more to do with some government worker somewhere whose job it is to make us " safer " and who knows that if he doesn't come up with some rules it will be obvious that he isn't needed in his position as a rule maker. No new rules made, no need for the rule maker...so he makes some rules to justify his continued employment. 3. Most rules not made to justify the rule-makers job (see #2 above) are made in response to " the squeaky wheel gets the grease " axiom. When the USDA, the FDA, or any other rule making agency hears daily from folks like drug companies, dairy associations, meat packers groups, etc., and rarely hear from small producers or average citizens because we are too busy seeing who made it through to the next round of " American Idol " it is not surprising who they listen and respond to. As for, " You need to do some research, maybe on some other sites about NAIS and what has created it and what it will mean to those of us, like myself, who raise Dairy Goats and produce raw milk for consumption. " , you might read my intro letter. I AM one of the " us " you talk about. I have a small Nubian herd and provide raw milk, along with some of the best Feta you have ever tasted, to a very happy customer group. I agree with you in your opposition to NAIS, along with other anti-sustainable agriculture rules...I simply disagree with the direction the original post took in assigning blame. Bob Hayles Thornberry Village Homestead Jasper, GA Thornberry Village Homestead...owned by God, managed by Bob and Helen. Don't tell God how big the storm is. Tell the storm how big your God is. > > Bob, if I were just coming into the group I might agree with you, but, NAIS is of great concern to all of us who are interested in RAW MILK. You need to do some research, maybe on some other sites about NAIS and what has created it and what it will mean to those of us, like myself, who raise Dairy Goats and produce raw milk for consumption. Then maybe you would better understand the post. Welcome to the group. Stay around awhile. > > Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 > > > > It just seems that our " war footing " runs broad and deep, and > > stretches all the way to raw milk and healthy eggs from happy chickens. > > > > When things like pastured chickens (NAIS) and raw milk sales fall > > under the purview of Homeland Security, the War on Terror seems to > > have gone a bit too far. Where is the hue and cry from defenders of > > freedom like Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh? Whether folks like it or not, having the freedom to raise or purchase food that is grown/processed -- or not processed -- in accordance with one's health, philosophical, spiritual, and/or environmental beliefs, is a political issue! In your reply you truncate the next lines where I suggest that catching the ear of political mouth pieces such as Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly (you could include Al en as well) can be a way to shape public opinion in favor of " Real Milk. " Monsanto(makers of rBGH & bioengineered crops) pays millions to DC lobbyists to shape policies in their favor. Producers/consumers who reject commoditized, industrialized, and engineered foods need someone speaking for them. Unfortunately, WAPF doesn't have pockets as deep as Monsanto's (or Dow Agrisciences, or Dupont or Cargill or Archer s Midland or the American Farm Bureau for that matter). In my state (IL), it is legal for a Grade A dairy to sell raw milk directly to consumers as long as their customers come to the farm and bring their own containers. However, it is ILLEGAL to advertise that such milk is available. Also, there is a strong bias by health official AGAINST any sale of raw milk. This seems like a clear infringement on the rights of free enterprise. Enactment/enforcement of NAIS will make it very difficult for people to raise animals for their own use let alone for resale as a viable, honorable livlihood. What are the options? Pretend that nothing is wrong and continue to allow our basic freedoms to be eroded in the name of National Security? Go " under ground. " During Prohibition there were bootleggers; perhaps in this new century there will be contraband raw milk runners and unprocessed milk speak easys. Maybe 75 years from now there will be a racing circuit that traces its origins to high performance milk trucks. Fight! By every means possible (shaping public opinion being one of the most powerful. Pen/sword and all that). Working together instead of sniping at one another might be a good start. Admitting that having the right to sell/purchase healthy food IS a political issue. " Blue staters " and " red staters " who drink raw milk or would like to drink raw milk can probably agree that access to healthy food is a basic freedom worth protecting (or at least should be). does an outstanding job moderating, but the injunction against political posts seems overly restrictive when they pertain to raw milk. Unfortunately we cannot escape the fact that broader political issues DO affect raw milk (both production and sale) especially when organizations like the USDA, FDA, HHS, NIH and the CDC are moved under the umbrella of Homeland Security. I don't think recognizing these realities is " Political Bashing " . My post may have been provocative (my intention), but I believe it is germaine to the raw milk discussion. Jody Osmund Cedar Valley Sustainable Farm CSA Ottawa, IL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 But the fact of the matter is, Jody, that you know the difference between political campaigning and ranting and bashing versus discussing political things that have directly to do with raw dairy. THAT is the rub. Political posts tend to get very inflammatory very quickly. There are many varied opinions on it and using this forum for political grandstanding is not allowed. It is useless and harmful to the whole raw milk movement ultimately. Yes, we need to understand the politics behind things, but you know, that can be VERY subjective. People think they know and understand the facts behind the workings of the world, when they can actually be very misinformed. This can cause all kinds of problems with arguing which leads to hurt feelings and people leaving the group. I want to avoid that, thusly the stong restrictions on political discussions. There are liberals on here who think their view of the world is right, and there are conservatives on here who think they are totally right as well. This is not the place to argue it. Blech! Use your head Jody, and hopefully YOUR synapses will fire. You will ultimately be responsible for guaging if your political post has to do directly with raw dairy. And you had better be careful, too, because yes, I the moderator, have been given the authority on this list to decide what is allowed and what is not. I am the benchmark and I am the touchstone. If I feel that it is out of line I will say so, and ask you to cease and desist. I don't toot that horn very often but that is what it boils down to--me. Remember it. D. moderator > Whether folks like it or not, having the freedom to raise or purchase > food that is grown/processed -- or not processed -- in accordance with > one's health, philosophical, spiritual, and/or environmental beliefs, > is a political issue! > ... > > does an outstanding job moderating, but the injunction against > political posts seems overly restrictive when they pertain to raw > milk. Unfortunately we cannot escape the fact that broader political > issues DO affect raw milk (both production and sale) especially when > organizations like the USDA, FDA, HHS, NIH and the CDC are moved under > the umbrella of Homeland Security. > > I don't think recognizing these realities is " Political Bashing " . > > My post may have been provocative (my intention), but I believe it is > germaine to the raw milk discussion. > > Jody Osmund > Cedar Valley Sustainable Farm CSA > Ottawa, IL > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Jody, And when you wanna hack up the forbidden hairball of political speech, then come to the RUMINATIONS group!!! Now it's back to milk, and only milk (we'll see how long THAT lasts, LOL), or ELSE. By the way, Jody, kudos on such a well written, concise, and reasoned post. Robin > > > Whether folks like it or not, having the freedom to raise or purchase food that is grown/processed -- or not processed -- in accordance with one's health, philosophical, spiritual, and/or environmental beliefs, is a political issue! .... does an outstanding job moderating, but the injunction against political posts seems overly restrictive when they pertain to raw milk. Unfortunately we cannot escape the fact that broader political issues DO affect raw milk (both production and sale) especially when organizations like the USDA, FDA, HHS, NIH and the CDC are moved under the umbrella of Homeland Security. I don't think recognizing these realities is " Political Bashing " . My post may have been provocative (my intention), but I believe it is germaine to the raw milk discussion. > > > > Jody Osmund > > Cedar Valley Sustainable Farm CSA > > Ottawa, IL > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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