Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Geyer wrote: > Have you tried placing you books in your oven at 200F and left them there for several hours/overnight. I spoke with a " moldie " years ago who tried this with some mold contaminated books, and was forced completely out of his house for two days. Might want to try it with someone elses oven (who isn't mold sensitive) - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 No, I haven't tried this either. The books are typically soft-covered computer books, with black and white illustrations, mostly. They were never wet, theyhad just been stored in bookshelves (now gone) from my old apartment. They have been cleaned aggressively several times.. the bookshelves were thrown away.. but the books still make me sick if I handle them. Stored in boxes (or on shelves) its less of an issue.. if they are not 'stirred up' but I would still like to get rid of the remaining reactivity. Quack: Have you tried placing you books in your oven at 200F and left them there for several hours/overnight. After heating them thoroughly, HEPA vacuum and/or fan them out doors in a still breeze while standing up-wind. Don't do this to books that have heat-sensitive color emulsions (plates). Try this and tell me the results. I have heated a significant number of books and paper records from water-damaged storage vaults with pretty good success. People using the heat-treated books/records afterwards have not reported significant symptoms; unlike the books and texts we solely dried using desiccants, dehumidification, or freezing methods. -- Geyer, PE, CIH, CSP President KERNTEC Industries, Inc. Bakersfield, California www.kerntecindustries.com On 12/14/06 12:30 PM, " LiveSimply " <quackadilliangmail> wrote: The biggest and most frustrating cleaning problem for me has been books. I have a lot of expensive computer books I can't just part with but those books still make me sick.. despite being HEPA vacumned and then wiped down with rags wetted in 50% household ammonia and water.. not each page, of course, just the covers and the edges of the books..(and wiped hard.) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 : Wouldn't 200 deg for an extended period 'brown' the paper? Or is this still not hot enough to do that? Cassidy Kuchenbecker > > > Have you tried placing you books in your oven at 200F and left them > there for several hours/overnight. > > > I spoke with a " moldie " years ago who tried this with some mold > contaminated books, and was forced completely out of his house for two > days. > Might want to try it with someone elses oven (who isn't mold sensitive) > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 200 degrees isn't even hot enough to boil water, so no, I don't think it would brown paper. But I don't think that it would necessarily inactivate mycotoxins either, as I've heard that at least trichothecenes are stable to much higher than that. Some mycotoxins might vaporize at high temps, although 200 degrees might not be high enough..(and then probably re-condense on the next cold object they encountered.. like water does?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Cassidy: Simple sugars will brown (caramelize) at 185 to 187F. Cellulose is a polysaccharide and will take a higher temp prior to browning; and the number escapes me at the moment but I believe it is above 245F. This said, I imagine that there are some papers (e.g., rice) that may brown nearer to 200F, but I am not sure. Most paper is a low-grade cellulose fiber, and often that fiber is from tree pulp (e.g., pine). Though different papers from different parts of the world use different pulp products. I shoot for 200F when I am drying and preserving books from a water-loss event, and it seems to work real well most of the time. The bigger issue is how wet and for how long. Some paper materials, depending upon the binders and additives (e.g., clay) will cause pages to stick together. After drying these texts, they are somewhat like paper bricks with cleavage-planes, and then they become a loss. For what it is worth..... -- Geyer, PE, CIH, CSP President KERNTEC Industries, Inc. Bakersfield, California www.kerntecindustries.com : Wouldn't 200 deg for an extended period 'brown' the paper? Or is this still not hot enough to do that? Cassidy Kuchenbecker > > > Have you tried placing you books in your oven at 200F and left them > there for several hours/overnight. > > > I spoke with a " moldie " years ago who tried this with some mold > contaminated books, and was forced completely out of his house for two > days. > Might want to try it with someone elses oven (who isn't mold sensitive) > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 bbw wrote: > > I've heard that wrapping them in brown paper or > put in box with paper bags and odor may be > absorbed. I wonder if toxins have an attraction > to some materials more than others and might move > from one material to a more desireable one and > that is the cause of the odor reduction. Of > course the paper just may simply absorb the odor > and have no affect on toxins what so ever. > have you experimented with anything like this? > I hit the point where another moment of trying to deal with my stuff was impossible. I couldn't touch any of it and left it to others to finish packing up my stuff. Books, magazines, records and all suchlike were loosely tossed in boxes and stacked, or rather tossed into storage. I think that the carelessness with which they were packed was fortuitous in allowing good air circulation, and after five years those things which had been carelessly strewn had little effect on me. Stuff that had been tightly sealed still retained potential nastiness. When I carried a friend out of a place in 2000, she reached the same point and couldn't finish packing, and would literally turn colors and hit the floor. Some of it that she had started was tightly wrapped, but I finished with loose packing, partly from the notion this might be good, but mostly from haste. She told me in 2005 that the stuff I had packed had become tolerable, but that the tightly and carefully sealed possessions unleashed a torrent of badness when opened. Rather than spend a great deal of time, effort, and much unhappiness on remediation, my philosophy would be to put things in dry storage with good air circulation, and if there was anything I really needed to get to - use appropriate personal protective gear while temporarily using/handling the material, and then get it back into benign custody until it denatures naturally or you finally give up on it altogether. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Thursday, December 21, 2006 Hello Ed! I did not know that you are 'lurking' on the IEQuality List... *LOL* http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/iequality/ I am not sure if I told you before but we collected a number of information resources on book restoration and conservation on the Flood Relief Aid List. Ms Sweeney from the University of Manitoba was instrumental in pulling together a videoconference on flood (water) damaged book restoration back in October 2003. For the archived 'video stream' please visit http://video.indiana.edu:8080/ramgen/vic/czech_flooding_20031016.rm (using Real Player). Best holiday wishes, Cutz _________________________________________________ Cutz, CIH Moderator, Flood Relief Aid List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flood_relief_aid_2002/ Search the Files and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2006 Report Share Posted December 23, 2006 Re: brown paper wrap absorbing VOCs ...which is different than decontamination but since it is the odor that many are mentioning thought I would add that books do not need to be wrapped tightly in brown paper but put in with crumpled brown paper to absorb odor. I read it in a conservation paper to stuff brown paper into musty drawers and get rid of the musty odor. I think usually that actually getting rid of odor, rather than mask it must be getting rid of what causing it so absorbing myco or endo toxins could be occuring, or perhaps just odor left behind after microbes are already gone. However I thought I would put this out there. Anyway, I have seen shredded brown paper used as packing material which would allow alot of air circulation around material and also allow the absorbent nature of brown paper to act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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