Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 , Check the archives for ocean salt postings - there were extensive conversations on this subject earlier this year. Amy Siedlecki salty air and drywall Has anybody ever heard of salt-laden air penetrating and depositing salt into drywall, raising the electrical conductivity of drywall without actually raising the moisture level of the drywall? I often use a Tramex non-penetrating moisture meter where this type of reaction (if possible) would render the meter non-effective in some situations such as an ocean-front house.An IH recently claimed this was possible. Does anybody have any insight into this?Thanks in advance for any information. Sherry, CMCSouthern Sciences, Inc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 If I remember correctly, the non-penetrating moisture meter use radio wave and the penetrating moisture meter use electrical conductivity, which should be more sensitive to salt content in the material. Wei Tang QLabryan sherry wrote: Has anybody ever heard of salt-laden air penetrating and depositing salt into drywall, raising the electrical conductivity of drywall without actually raising the moisture level of the drywall? I often use a Tramex non-penetrating moisture meter where this type of reaction (if possible) would render the meter non-effective in some situations such as an ocean-front house.An IH recently claimed this was possible. Does anybody have any insight into this?Thanks in advance for any information. Sherry, CMCSouthern Sciences, Inc. Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Not into but onto, A salt patina can act as a sorbant to drywall to collect and add moisture to the drywall. If the relative humidity is 75% or above at the surface where the salt is deposited, then salt will act like a desiccant and absorb moisture and transfer it to the surface of the drywall. Basically if there is salt, there's a potential problem. Another way to think of this, Do you remember your mom putting rice in the salt shaker to keep the salt from clumping? In ocean front homes we see fiberglass insulation in vented attics that is moist on the back due to the salt deposit. It can affect a meter reading. Also conduct your own experiment, get some sea salt mix it with water and spray it onto the surface of the drywall then dry the sample. Measure it as you have been and see if the salt patina on the drywall causes a change in your meter reading. Can you go back and get a sample of the drywall and send it to a lab for an actual moisture weight? If there is salt laden air penetration there is also moisture. One comes with the other, how does the IH think it gets transported and airborne?If salt is on the surface inside the wall then there is a chance for high humidity to get there also. Just my too sense! BTW- Tramex or one of the other meters gives a procedure to test to see if there is residual salt on the surface. I'll try to look it up tomorrow. Ron B. , PE Engineering Corporation 880 Jupiter Park Drive, Suite 5 Jupiter, Florida 33458 Work- Fax- Cell From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of ryan sherrySent: Monday, December 18, 2006 7:22 PMTo: iequality Subject: salty air and drywall Has anybody ever heard of salt-laden air penetrating and depositing salt into drywall, raising the electrical conductivity of drywall without actually raising the moisture level of the drywall? I often use a Tramex non-penetrating moisture meter where this type of reaction (if possible) would render the meter non-effective in some situations such as an ocean-front house.An IH recently claimed this was possible. Does anybody have any insight into this?Thanks in advance for any information. Sherry, CMCSouthern Sciences, Inc. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Yes. I have seen this in Florida along the coast. The Protimeter I have (I also have a Tramex) discusses a modification to check for saltation issues in the manual (yes I read the manuals). I usually allow this to adjust moisture levels post-remediation for contractors if this is used. One will also see treated wood salts raise MC readings in wood by 1-3% usually. I have a paper on this. The ASTM method on moisture reading with a Tramex style discusses the limitations but offers no solutions. Only true test is to do cut and weigh. Although certain radiofrequency meters may look at ranges where this is not affected. Perhaps someone else will speak up. Tony ....................................................................... " Tony " Havics, CHMM, CIH, PE pH2, LLC PO Box 34140 Indianapolis, IN 46234 off fax cell 90% of Risk Management is knowing where to place the decimal point...any consultant can give you the other 10%(SM) This message is from pH2. This message and any attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information, and are intended only for the individual or entity identified above as the addressee. If you are not the addressee, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, you are not authorized to read, copy, or distribute this message and any attachments, and we ask that you please delete this message and attachments (including all copies) and notify the sender by return e-mail or by phone at . Delivery of this message and any attachments to any person other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive confidentiality or a privilege. All personal messages express views only of the sender, which are not to be attributed to pH2 and may not be copied or distributed without this statement. From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of ryan sherry Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 7:22 PM To: iequality Subject: salty air and drywall Has anybody ever heard of salt-laden air penetrating and depositing salt into drywall, raising the electrical conductivity of drywall without actually raising the moisture level of the drywall? I often use a Tramex non-penetrating moisture meter where this type of reaction (if possible) would render the meter non-effective in some situations such as an ocean-front house. An IH recently claimed this was possible. Does anybody have any insight into this? Thanks in advance for any information. Sherry, CMC Southern Sciences, Inc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 , Check with the folks at Advanced Energy in North Carolina http://www.advancedenergy.org. They may have some information in this area. Ed Gerhardt Surelock Homes, Inc. Chapel Hill, NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 I just realize that some moisture meters use radio wave to "penetrate" the material, and some other moisture meters use two metal pins to "penetrate" the material and measure electrical conductivity. There might be a difference here in terminology for "non-penetrating moisture meter". Wei Tang QLabWei Tang wrote: If I remember correctly, the non-penetrating moisture meter use radio wave and the penetrating moisture meter use electrical conductivity, which should be more sensitive to salt content in the material. Wei Tang QLabryan sherry wrote: Has anybody ever heard of salt-laden air penetrating and depositing salt into drywall, raising the electrical conductivity of drywall without actually raising the moisture level of the drywall? I often use a Tramex non-penetrating moisture meter where this type of reaction (if possible) would render the meter non-effective in some situations such as an ocean-front house.An IH recently claimed this was possible. Does anybody have any insight into this?Thanks in advance for any information. Sherry, CMCSouthern Sciences, Inc. Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 When I use the term non-penetrating, I am referring to a meter that does not use pins to make holes in the drywall. My meter has two flat pads. I thought that it works by sending out an electrical current from one pad and measuring the returned current on the other pad. Higher moisture content would be more electrically conductive. I will check the manual to make sure it is not using a radio frequency. SherryWei Tang wrote: I just realize that some moisture meters use radio wave to "penetrate" the material, and some other moisture meters use two metal pins to "penetrate" the material and measure electrical conductivity. There might be a difference here in terminology for "non-penetrating moisture meter". Wei Tang QLabWei Tang <wtangqlabusa> wrote: If I remember correctly, the non-penetrating moisture meter use radio wave and the penetrating moisture meter use electrical conductivity, which should be more sensitive to salt content in the material. Wei Tang QLabryan sherry <ryanshrry> wrote: Has anybody ever heard of salt-laden air penetrating and depositing salt into drywall, raising the electrical conductivity of drywall without actually raising the moisture level of the drywall? I often use a Tramex non-penetrating moisture meter where this type of reaction (if possible) would render the meter non-effective in some situations such as an ocean-front house.An IH recently claimed this was possible. Does anybody have any insight into this?Thanks in advance for any information. Sherry, CMCSouthern Sciences, Inc. Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I would like to add my experienc with salt and water. For years, I maintained a dust mite population. I used saturated salt water to maintain 75%RH environment which is ideal for the mites. The salt was added to a cloth covered cup with enough water to maintain wet salt. All went well until there was a temperature varience outside of the sealed container of mites, food, and cup of wet salt. Any time the temperature of the container cooled enough to approach the dew point of the air in the container, moister and salt crystals condensed on the coolest surfaces of the container. The crystals where large and like two pryamids back to back. Mold growth followed if the condition lasted a day or two. After the salt was present outside the cup, the surface salt would be wet if the %RH was +75%. This demonstated that the NaCl is present in the air probably attached to the water molecues. As a side issue, major mold growth would distroy the mite colony. By adding a small vent to the container and maintaining constant air temperature of the container, the salt/moisture condensation was avoided. Season Greetings, Ken > > Not into but onto, A salt patina can act as a sorbant to drywall to > collect and add moisture to the drywall. If the relative humidity is 75% > or above at the surface where the salt is deposited, then salt will act > like a desiccant and absorb moisture and transfer it to the surface of > the drywall. Basically if there is salt, there's a potential problem. > Another way to think of this, Do you remember your mom putting rice in > the salt shaker to keep the salt from clumping? In ocean front homes we > see fiberglass insulation in vented attics that is moist on the back due > to the salt deposit. It can affect a meter reading. > > Also conduct your own experiment, get some sea salt mix it with water > and spray it onto the surface of the drywall then dry the sample. > Measure it as you have been and see if the salt patina on the drywall > causes a change in your meter reading. > > Can you go back and get a sample of the drywall and send it to a lab for > an actual moisture weight? If there is salt laden air penetration there > is also moisture. One comes with the other, how does the IH think it > gets transported and airborne?If salt is on the surface inside the wall > then there is a chance for high humidity to get there also. Just my too > sense! > > BTW- Tramex or one of the other meters gives a procedure to test to see > if there is residual salt on the surface. I'll try to look it up > tomorrow. > > Ron > B. , PE > Engineering Corporation > 880 Jupiter Park Drive, Suite 5 > Jupiter, Florida 33458 > > Work- > Fax- > Cell > > > > ________________________________ > > From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On > Behalf Of ryan sherry > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 7:22 PM > To: iequality > Subject: salty air and drywall > > > > Has anybody ever heard of salt-laden air penetrating and depositing salt > into drywall, raising the electrical conductivity of drywall without > actually raising the moisture level of the drywall? I often use a > Tramex non-penetrating moisture meter where this type of reaction (if > possible) would render the meter non-effective in some situations such > as an ocean-front house. > > An IH recently claimed this was possible. Does anybody have any insight > into this? > > Thanks in advance for any information. > > Sherry, CMC > Southern Sciences, Inc. > <mailto:iequality-unsubscribe ?subject=> > > . > > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv? s=97359714/grpId=12387475/grpspId=1705061146/ > msgId=9951/stime=1166490080/nc1=3848478/nc2=3848571/nc3=3848644> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Ken, You have an interesting life. I wonder who else is out there that counts cockroach feces? A friend of mine got her PH.D., dissecting the feces of lobster and crawfish in the Canary Islands and measuring its radioactivity. Moffett From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Ken Gehring Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 9:37 AM To: iequality Subject: Re: salty air and drywall I would like to add my experienc with salt and water. For years, I maintained a dust mite population. I used saturated salt water to maintain 75%RH environment which is ideal for the mites. The salt was added to a cloth covered cup with enough water to maintain wet salt. All went well until there was a temperature varience outside of the sealed container of mites, food, and cup of wet salt. Any time the temperature of the container cooled enough to approach the dew point of the air in the container, moister and salt crystals condensed on the coolest surfaces of the container. The crystals where large and like two pryamids back to back. Mold growth followed if the condition lasted a day or two. After the salt was present outside the cup, the surface salt would be wet if the %RH was +75%. This demonstated that the NaCl is present in the air probably attached to the water molecues. As a side issue, major mold growth would distroy the mite colony. By adding a small vent to the container and maintaining constant air temperature of the container, the salt/moisture condensation was avoided. Season Greetings, Ken > > Not into but onto, A salt patina can act as a sorbant to drywall to > collect and add moisture to the drywall. If the relative humidity is 75% > or above at the surface where the salt is deposited, then salt will act > like a desiccant and absorb moisture and transfer it to the surface of > the drywall. Basically if there is salt, there's a potential problem. > Another way to think of this, Do you remember your mom putting rice in > the salt shaker to keep the salt from clumping? In ocean front homes we > see fiberglass insulation in vented attics that is moist on the back due > to the salt deposit. It can affect a meter reading. > > Also conduct your own experiment, get some sea salt mix it with water > and spray it onto the surface of the drywall then dry the sample. > Measure it as you have been and see if the salt patina on the drywall > causes a change in your meter reading. > > Can you go back and get a sample of the drywall and send it to a lab for > an actual moisture weight? If there is salt laden air penetration there > is also moisture. One comes with the other, how does the IH think it > gets transported and airborne?If salt is on the surface inside the wall > then there is a chance for high humidity to get there also. Just my too > sense! > > BTW- Tramex or one of the other meters gives a procedure to test to see > if there is residual salt on the surface. I'll try to look it up > tomorrow. > > Ron > B. , PE > Engineering Corporation > 880 Jupiter Park Drive, Suite 5 > Jupiter, Florida 33458 > > Work- > Fax- > Cell > > > > ________________________________ > > From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On > Behalf Of ryan sherry > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 7:22 PM > To: iequality > Subject: salty air and drywall > > > > Has anybody ever heard of salt-laden air penetrating and depositing salt > into drywall, raising the electrical conductivity of drywall without > actually raising the moisture level of the drywall? I often use a > Tramex non-penetrating moisture meter where this type of reaction (if > possible) would render the meter non-effective in some situations such > as an ocean-front house. > > An IH recently claimed this was possible. Does anybody have any insight > into this? > > Thanks in advance for any information. > > Sherry, CMC > Southern Sciences, Inc. > <mailto:iequality-unsubscribe ?subject=> > > . > > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv? s=97359714/grpId=12387475/grpspId=1705061146/ > msgId=9951/stime=1166490080/nc1=3848478/nc2=3848571/nc3=3848644> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.