Re: kefir questions

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

First of all, it is a little weird that you got one big grain. But I guess it

is possible.

You just need to understand that this grain should produce lots of tiny babies,

then they

will produce babies etc. Normal kefir grains are not 1/4 inch in diameter and

huge like

that, but there is a cluster of them. I started with a cluster of small grains,

about 2

tablespoons. Now I have about 2 cups of them--and this after giving away many

" 2

tablespoon " sized gifts to people. I would've really had more.

Now as to your process. Yes, I think you were right to let it keep going. But

I would not

keep shaking it every day. It does not need that. This might've been why it

was difficult

for you to see when it separated into curds and whey. Just leave it alone and

look for the

separation through the glass jar you are fermenting in. The fact that it took a

long time to

separate also was probably due to the fact that you had only one grain in a lot

of milk.

This is so bizarre to me. One grain. Usually it is 2 tablespoons grains to 2

cups of milk

for a 24 hour ferment. Temperature also affects the fermentation process. If

it's not

warm enough it will take longer.

Putting the finished kefir in the fridge is no big deal. It just slows down the

process. Do

not EVER rinse the grains. This is risky business and totally and completely

unnecessary. I

hear of people doing this and I cannot for the life of me, figure it out. The

grains do not

need to be cleaned off, they do not need a bath. Any leftover kefir clinging to

them will

just serve to better innoculate the next batch of milk, make things work better.

And if you

rinse with chlorinated tap water, you will kill the kefir grains. Chlorine is

anti-bacterial

and kefir grains are just that, bacteria in clusters.

The kefir you made sounds like it is not harmful. Don't be afraid of your

food! It just

sounds to me like (and I have years of experience with kefir so you can trust

me) just a

really long ferment, that has turned really sour with tons of good, lactic acid.

This is what

makes it sour, the lactic acid and it is nothing to be afraid of. It is a

beneficial thing for

your body.

Real milk can never putrefy and not sour. THere is good bacteria that will take

over the

souring processin real milk and clabber it into curds and whey. Sour milk

tastes slightly

sour and tart. Putrefied pasteurized milk tastes disgusting and OBVIOUSLY bad

for you. It

also has an unbelievably bad small. Your senses will know. Sour raw milk is a

wonderful

preservative. It was the ORIGINAL preservative, before the invention of

refrigerators,

canning or other preservative processes. Pioneer woemn used to use sour milk to

transport raw meat across the prarie as a preservative. One doctor did an

experiment with

real milk and kept a raw steak in it for 13 years. Yes, that's right, 13 years.

He claims the

steak came out great, fresh as the day it was put in, and he ate it. If you are

going to do

real milk, you cannot be afraid of it. The Japanese laugh at us stupid

Americans, at how

afraid we are of our FOOD. There are so many scare tactics out there about

bacteria that I

can really get on a soap box sometimes. Go to www.rawmilk.org and read up on

bacteria.

You need to understand the bacterial world so it will not be such an ominous

thing for

you.

Fizzy is good with kefir. It means there was a really good ferment and the top

was on, not

allowing the gasses to excape. Some like theirs fizzy and some do not. It's

just a matter

of leaving the top on it during the ferment.

Try again, and strain out your grain and it's babies that have likely formed,

and enjoy your

healthy kefir.

>

> Hi,

> I got a hold of one kefir grain last month, about 1/4 inch in

> diameter. I put it in about 8 ounces of " real " milk, put a loose

> fitting lid on it and stuck it in the cupboard. I gave it a shake

> several times per day. After one day, it still seemed too thin. I

> figured it was because there was only one grain and I probably used

> too much milk. So I left it for another day, but still didn't look any

> different. I ended up leaving it in the cupboard for 5 days until it

> separated into curds & whey. Then I stuck it in the fridge. Since this

> was my first time trying to make kefir and since it took 5 days, I

> didn't know if it was safe to use. I didn't want to throw it away, so

> I just left it in the fridge and forgot about it. That was over one

> month ago. I took it out tonight and strained it to get the kefir

> grain out. I rinsed the grain and put it into one ounce of fresh milk

> and put it back in the cupboard. I'm going to try giving it fresh milk

> every day for several days to see if it is still viable.

>

> Now I have 8 ounces of very thick kefir, but I'm worried that it may

> not be safe to use. I dipped a spoon in it and touched it to my tongue

> and it tastes like battery acid. It smells bad, like spoiled milk with

> a hint of kefir smell. It's also rather fizzy.

>

> Can anyone tell me whether this would be safe to consume? What is the

> worst it could do to me? Could it kill me? Also, how can you

> distinguish between sour milk and putrid milk? Can " real " milk

> ever putrify rather than sour?

>

> Thanks.

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, was that informative? Thanks, for the terrific information. I am new to raw milk and want to start making kefir and yogurt. I am going out of town next week, and when I get back, I will start. I have really enjoyed the raw milk (I've been drinking it for less than a month) and am looking forward to branching out.

Thanks for the info,

Patty:)

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for the reply. I guess my concern is that everyone talks about

how soured raw milk has a pleasantly tart, sour smell. Whereas, the

raw milk that I had that turned, smelled bad. My sense of smell seems

to be telling me, " this will hurt you " , lol.

As for the kefir grain, I was concerned that leaving it in the same

jar of milk for over a month may have harmed it in some way and that

there may be some harmful stuff growing in that batch after such a

long time. I haven't thrown the batch of kefir out, though. I just

have to figure out what I want to do with it. I don't think I could

possibly stand to drink it, but maybe I can find other uses for it.

I didn't find any baby grains when I strained the kefir. Maybe the

slots in my strainer are too big (plastic slotted bowl). Although a

lot of the kurds were big enough that the strainer caught them. They

looked very different from the kefir grain, though, so I don't think

they were baby grains.

I've been drinking raw milk for about a year, but I've only drank it

fresh. Sometimes I'll drink the last glass out of the jar that has

just slighty began to turn, but nothing more sour than that. I have

bought that stuff in the store that's called kefir, but never the real

thing.

Unfortunately, I moved at the first of the year and it is now a bit

too far to drive on a regular basis to pick up my milk, so I didn't

renew my order this last time (it was a quarterly order). I'm going to

miss my daily glass of raw milk. However, to tell the truth, after

drinking it everyday since last june, I can't really tell any

improvement in my health. I don't feel any better than when I started.

-

[Guest guest]

However, to tell the truth, after

> drinking it everyday since last june, I can't really tell any

> improvement in my health. I don't feel any better than when I

started.

>

> -

>

,

YOu might want to try straining the kefir again, this time using a

clean ladies knee-hi pantyhose and see if you don't have some little

grains in that first long-cultured batch. Old kefir is fine to put

on your compost pile, or on the soil around a favorite outdoor

plant. I wouldn't do anything else with it, but I know a friend who

was able to use some grains that had been stored in milk for 8

months. She rinsed the grains with filtered water and put them in

fresh raw milk and they were just fine.

Just adding a glass of raw milk daily might not make a noticeable

difference in your health if your health is pretty good to begin

with. Kefir makes a huge difference in most people's health pretty

soon after they begin. In my case, within 2 days of drinking kefir,

I was incredibly better as it soothed my nerves, gave me energy, and

gave me a sense of well-being that had been gone from my life for

over 8 months. The biggest change from adding raw goat milk -- and

that's another thing to consider, some people won't feel much better

on cow's milk even if raw -- to my diet was increased energy and

brain stamina. I was able to remain level headed and think more

clearly for longer periods of time. For example, I could read

difficult material again and actually remember what I had read.

Raw milk is just one part of the big picture in restoring health, so

don't give up on it,

[Guest guest]

This is a little unclear. How much kefir did you get? How big of a jar did you fill? Did you fill it with milk? How long did you wait to drain it twice and how did the kefir look then? Was the original smell you noticed like yeast?

When you say you put it in with your yogurt - you mean you made a batch of yogurt and dropped your grains into it?

You can email me privately if you like. I've been making kefir for several years.

I got my dried kefir grains the other day, filled up the jar and

drained it twice. Then, the 3rd time I stuck it in with my yogurt at

110 degrees to see if it would go faster. It curdled. Drained that,

then filled it back up again. this time it's not thick like before. It doesn't even really have a smell. Could the heat have killed it? How do I know if the kefir is safe to drink if it doesn't "smell". Or, maybe the other stuff before was soured milk and this one is the

right stuff.

[Guest guest]

For all the kefir info you could ever need try the Kefir-making@... group. Heating is not a normal part of the kefir making process. Also yogurt is a different culture all together. You may want to try to get fresh kefir grains. If you post to the kefir making board, you can often find someone in your area to get grains from.

Blessings,

Trisha

I got my dried kefir grains the other day, filled up the jar anddrained it twice. Then, the 3rd time I stuck it in with my yogurt at110 degrees to see if it would go faster. It curdled. Drained that,then filled it back up again. this time it's not thick like before. It doesn't even really have a smell. Could the heat have killed it? How do I know if the kefir is safe to drink if it doesn't "smell". Or, maybe the other stuff before was soured milk and this one is theright stuff

[Guest guest]

This link will take you directly to the kefir_making group:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/kefir_making/

And this site is a great source of information on kefir.

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

Coombes

Beaverton, OR

-----Original Message-----From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of spottedpony@...Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:27 AMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: kefir questions

For all the kefir info you could ever need try the Kefir-making@... group. Heating is not a normal part of the kefir making process. Also yogurt is a different culture all together. You may want to try to get fresh kefir grains. If you post to the kefir making board, you can often find someone in your area to get grains from.

Blessings,

Trisha

[Guest guest]

sorry, I guess I was totally unclear huh? I bought the kefir kit from

hoeggers. It came with a tiny packet of what looked like dried small

grains. The jar is a pint size jar. I filled it with milk all times.

The kefir grains looked the same but wetter the 3 times I filled it.

The original smell was yeasty. The first thing I thought of was

malted milk smell. I did not put the grains in with yogurt, LOL. I

can see how it sounded like that. I was incubating yogurt in separate

jars in my excalibur. One of the things I read said that higher temps

make kefir culture faster so I stuck it in the excalibur at 110

degrees in a separate jar, the milk and grains. So, the 3rd time and

last nights kefir was started with warm raw milk fresh from the goats,

sat overnight for 12 hours or so. It just isn't as thick and " slimy "

as the first batches. I smell a faint similarity but it's just not

very potent. So, I figured either I killed the grains off or before

was bad and now it's what kefir is supposed to look like. One more

question, how does it get bubbly? someone said it was supposed to be

bubbly. The first few did look like that along with the slime.

>

> This is a little unclear. How much kefir did you get? How big of

a jar did

> you fill? Did you fill it with milk? How long did you wait to

drain it

> twice and how did the kefir look then? Was the original smell you

noticed like

> yeast?

>

> When you say you put it in with your yogurt - you mean you made a

batch of

> yogurt and dropped your grains into it?

>

> You can email me privately if you like. I've been making kefir for

several

> years.

>

>

>

> > I got my dried kefir grains the other day, filled up the jar and

> > drained it twice. Then, the 3rd time I stuck it in with my yogurt at

> > 110 degrees to see if it would go faster. It curdled. Drained that,

> > then filled it back up again. this time it's not thick like before.

> > It doesn't even really have a smell. Could the heat have killed it?

> > How do I know if the kefir is safe to drink if it doesn't " smell " .

> > Or, maybe the other stuff before was soured milk and this one is the

> > right stuff.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> I got my dried kefir grains the other day,

It will take up to three weeks to re-hydrate dried grains. That's 3

weeks of throwing away milk. Much easier to get living grains from

someone for postage and have usable kefir the next day.