RE: NORMI Becomes the Fastest Growing Organization wi thin Mold and Remediation Ind.

[Guest guest]

Actually "copyright" is probably a more appropriate term than "trademark", but that doesn't answer your question. The simple answer is, if the S520 was mandated by law, it would be available publicly. But it isn't.

Many private organizations issue non-mandatory "standards". If they are lucky the industry will pay for and use their copyrighted standards. ACGIH Threshold Limit Values are a good example, we buy a copy of them every year, and often quote them in our worker exposure reports.

Saying you "can't get a copy" is false, you just are not willing to pay for it. I'm afraid free enterprise is alive and well in this country.

Steve Carlson, CIAQC, CMRS

Liesch Associates, Inc.

-----Original Message-----From: LiveSimply Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 2:20 PMTo: iequality ; jkg4902@...; grimes@...; SNK1955@...Subject: Re: NORMI Becomes the Fastest Growing Organization within Mold and Remediation Ind.

Trademark?Is that the proper designation to be using for something that effects public health like this?It doesn't seem appropriate. And the standards really should be PUBLIC documents, otherwise, HOW CAN PEOPLE FOLLOW THEM? The whole picture doesn't make any sense.I was told for a long time that 'S520' was the best standard for mold remediation, but I haven't been able to get a copy.The reason I want it is to be able to show some public health officials of one of the most progressive cities in the US how mold remediation *should* be done. However, I can't get a copy of this supposedly important spec. They can't get a copy.. (and their budgets are tight - they should not have to pay!)These specs should be downloadable on the web.There is something wrong with this picture! Standsrds should be open to be seen by the public, otherwise, how can they use them? Quote them.This is important!Now wonder there are so many different 'certification organizations' - If one organization isn't willing to take a LEADERSHIP role and publish these standards for open viewing and use and debate.. (and THAT would totally legitimate THEIR certifications) then there is a power vaccumn that these fly-by-night organizations sense and they are moving in to EXPLOIT it. Can't you see the connection?Thank you for publishing this...

On 12/8/06, kengib . < jkg4902hotmail> wrote:

One of the probable reasons there are so many designations other than PE which is designated by state law is the others are the trade marked property of the certifying body that awards the designation.

When one body has a popular designation they ain't allowin nobody to share the stage.

Re: NORMI Becomes the Fastest Growing Organization within Mold and Remediation Ind.

I'm wondering if any of you would like to take a stab at explaining what these zillions of various organizations and certifications do or mean. Are there any definitive lists?What do people have to do to become mold remediators? Is there a degree involved, or an organizational certification program, state exam??? How much time is involved? Is there anything like an apprenticeship for those without mycology (???) degrees? What are the respected certifications and which ones are basically bad jokes on the clients?In case you want to know why, its because it is something I've been looking for and haven't been able to find for a long time. (This list of remediator/IAQ consultant acronyms)

[Guest guest]

The California building codes ARE available on a website that publishes them for the state and individual municipalities.You only have to pay if you want the bound, printed copy.. (which is HUGE, and should cost big bucks for that reason)

OTOH, a set of standards that is maintained as a hierarchy of linked documents can be easily maintained via a workflow process (where a set of people can approve changes via some pre-decided process)Then, whenever a new revision is available, someone can run a Python, PERL, etc, script that builds a linked set of HTML documents that captures a snapshot of the document and then burns that 'weblet' to a CDROM master ISO image file, and that ISO image can be burned to as many CDROMS as you want for about 50 cents a copy by a mass CDROM duplicator..

Before I got sick this (building content management systems) is exactly the kind of work that I did.. On 12/8/06, Carlson <

steve.carlson@...> wrote:

Actually " copyright " is probably a more appropriate term than " trademark " , but that doesn't answer your question. The simple answer is, if the S520 was mandated by law, it would be available publicly. But it isn't.

Many private organizations issue non-mandatory " standards " . If they are lucky the industry will pay for and use their copyrighted standards. ACGIH Threshold Limit Values are a good example, we buy a copy of them every year, and often quote them in our worker exposure reports.

Saying you " can't get a copy " is false, you just are not willing to pay for it. I'm afraid free enterprise is alive and well in this country.

Steve Carlson, CIAQC, CMRS

Liesch Associates, Inc.

-----Original Message-----From: LiveSimply Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 2:20 PMTo: iequality ; jkg4902@...; grimes@...; SNK1955@...Subject: Re: NORMI Becomes the Fastest Growing Organization within Mold and Remediation Ind.

Trademark?Is that the proper designation to be using for something that effects public health like this?It doesn't seem appropriate. And the standards really should be PUBLIC documents, otherwise, HOW CAN PEOPLE FOLLOW THEM? The whole picture doesn't make any sense.I was told for a long time that 'S520' was the best standard for mold remediation, but I haven't been able to get a copy.The reason I want it is to be able to show some public health officials of one of the most progressive cities in the US how mold remediation *should* be done. However, I can't get a copy of this supposedly important spec. They can't get a copy.. (and their budgets are tight - they should not have to pay!)These specs should be downloadable on the web.There is something wrong with this picture! Standsrds should be open to be seen by the public, otherwise, how can they use them? Quote them.This is important!Now wonder there are so many different 'certification organizations' - If one organization isn't willing to take a LEADERSHIP role and publish these standards for open viewing and use and debate.. (and THAT would totally legitimate THEIR certifications) then there is a power vaccumn that these fly-by-night organizations sense and they are moving in to EXPLOIT it. Can't you see the connection?Thank you for publishing this...

One of the probable reasons there are so many designations other than PE which is designated by state law is the others are the trade marked property of the certifying body that awards the designation.

When one body has a popular designation they ain't allowin nobody to share the stage.

Re: NORMI Becomes the Fastest Growing Organization within Mold and Remediation Ind.

I'm wondering if any of you would like to take a stab at explaining what these zillions of various organizations and certifications do or mean. Are there any definitive lists?What do people have to do to become mold remediators? Is there a degree involved, or an organizational certification program, state exam??? How much time is involved? Is there anything like an apprenticeship for those without mycology (???) degrees? What are the respected certifications and which ones are basically bad jokes on the clients?In case you want to know why, its because it is something I've been looking for and haven't been able to find for a long time. (This list of remediator/IAQ consultant acronyms)

[Guest guest]

I also hold a General Builders License and

I have to buy a copy each time a revision comes out and its law in Massachusetts. As a

matter of fact if you don’t have a up date copy on the job, you can lose

your license (yet it’s mandatory and I have to buy it). I understand it

takes a lot to get it to print and the cost to print is another cost factor.

Now lets look at it this way, people seem

to find enough money to buy cigarettes or booze (or whatever) yet when it comes

to their health they don’t want to buy what can help them the most.

Huummmmm! I guess it’s a matter of priorities.

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of LiveSimply

Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006

5:20 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: NORMI

Becomes the Fastest Growing Organization wi thin Mold and Remediation Ind.

The California

building codes ARE available on a website that publishes them for the state and

individual municipalities.

You only have to pay if you want the bound, printed copy.. (which is HUGE, and

should cost big bucks for that reason)

OTOH, a set of standards that is maintained as a hierarchy of linked documents

can be easily maintained via a workflow process (where a set of people can

approve changes via some pre-decided process)

Then, whenever a new revision is available, someone can run a Python, PERL,

etc, script that builds a linked set of HTML documents that captures a snapshot

of the document and then burns that 'weblet' to a CDROM master ISO image file,

and that ISO image can be burned to as many CDROMS as you want for about 50

cents a copy by a mass CDROM duplicator..

Before I got sick this (building content management systems) is exactly the

kind of work that I did..

On 12/8/06,

Carlson < steve.carlsonliesch>

wrote:

Actually

" copyright " is probably a more appropriate term than

" trademark " , but that doesn't answer your question. The simple answer

is, if the S520 was mandated by law, it would

be available publicly. But it isn't.

Many private

organizations issue non-mandatory " standards " . If they are lucky the

industry will pay for and use their copyrighted standards. ACGIH Threshold

Limit Values are a good example, we buy a copy of them every year, and often

quote them in our worker exposure reports.

Saying you

" can't get a copy " is false, you just are not willing to pay for it.

I'm afraid free enterprise is alive and well in this country.

Steve Carlson, CIAQC, CMRS

Liesch Associates, Inc.

-----Original

Message-----

From: LiveSimply

Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006

2:20 PM

To: iequality ; jkg4902hotmail; grimeshabitats; SNK1955aol

Subject: Re: NORMI

Becomes the Fastest Growing Organization within Mold and Remediation Ind.

Trademark?

Is that the proper designation to be using for something that effects public

health like this?

It doesn't seem appropriate.

And the standards really should be PUBLIC documents, otherwise, HOW CAN PEOPLE

FOLLOW THEM?

The whole picture doesn't make any sense.

I was told for a long time that 'S520' was the best standard for mold

remediation, but I haven't been able to get a copy.

The reason I want it is to be able to show some public health officials of one

of the most progressive cities in the US how mold remediation *should* be done.

However, I can't get a copy of this supposedly important spec. They can't get a

copy.. (and their budgets are tight - they should not have to pay!)

These specs should be downloadable on the web.

There is something wrong with this picture!

Standsrds should be open to be seen by the public, otherwise, how can they use

them? Quote them.

This is important!

Now wonder there are so many different 'certification organizations' - If one

organization isn't willing to take a LEADERSHIP role and publish these

standards for open viewing and use and debate.. (and THAT would totally

legitimate THEIR certifications) then there is a power vaccumn that these

fly-by-night organizations sense and they are moving in to EXPLOIT it.

Can't you see the connection?

Thank you for publishing this...

On 12/8/06, kengib . < jkg4902hotmail>

wrote:

One of the probable reasons there are so many

designations other than PE which is designated by state law is the others are

the trade marked property of the certifying body that awards the

designation.

When one body has a popular designation they ain't

allowin nobody to share the stage.

Re:

NORMI Becomes the Fastest Growing Organization within Mold and

Remediation Ind.

I'm wondering if any of

you would like to take a stab at explaining what these zillions of various

organizations and certifications do or mean. Are there any definitive lists?

What do people have to do to become mold remediators? Is there a degree

involved, or an organizational certification program, state exam??? How much

time is involved? Is there anything like an apprenticeship for those without

mycology (???) degrees?

What are the respected certifications and which ones are basically bad jokes on

the clients?

In case you want to know why, its because it is something I've been looking for

and haven't been able to find for a long time. (This list of remediator/IAQ

consultant acronyms)

[Guest guest]

Bob,These are all very valid reasons to withold access to the S520 to nonprofessionals, I agree.Do you have any referrals as to organizations or specs that are available to anyone who NEEDS to have a good guide to this kind of information?

Perhaps one of the other organizations. Excuse me, but from my perspective it almost seems as if there is some kind of conspiracy by the powerful to deny people access to the information that they need to improve this situation. You people may think that this situation revolves around you and your needs.. but its a complex one.MUCH more complex like that. For every person who can afford one of your services, there are hundreds who cant.

They NEED this information. If an organization exists that claims to offer it, but then doesnt in a way they can access.. its almost worse than it not even existing. You should find another way to make your money. People are being hurt by this.

At the very least an organization should realize that specs like this should NOT remain unavailable to the general public if it expects them to be widely accepted. Please consider this seriously.This is a health issue. You can't keep a spec closed in a health situation.

[Guest guest]

Look, I would tell you my own story, but I can't.

But I'm telling you, money is tight right now and landlords can and do

get away with murder, literally. Your spec is some kind of pie in the

sky dream as long as its not available..

I cant afford to buy it and if I could, appearently it would be

ILLEGAL TO SHARE IT, right?

Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. That is true, right?

If I bought a copy, and I needed to use it, say in court, or to share

it with a public official, say, I would have to get permission..

right, because that would be 'making a copy' right?