Re: Re: antiACLU as well as antiNAIS

January 23, 2006

>> Before you entangle yourselves with the ACLU, take a good

>>look at its pedigree and the causes it has, and continues to,

>>promote : Jesus said " by their fruits ye shall know them. "

Right Gordon, like when the ACLU joined with Conservatives to stop

national ID cards. And to stop airlines from datamining airline

passengers info (CAPPS II). Or joined with conservatives to fight the

Patriot Act. And the FCC push for radio monopolies. And innumerable

times when Conservatives have ranted and railed like banshees against

the ACLU but were the first in line to ask for its help when they found

themselves getting the short end of the stick...and got help...

Because there are many of us here, Gordon, who put up with all your

ranting and raving and total BS and are still here holding our noses and

still trying our best to work with you for the common good. So stop

bitching and start helping.

And writes:

>It was only recently that I learned how the public schools

>are being used as a vehicle to usher in the new world order.

Uh, , hate to break this to you, but the phrase " New World Order "

is one of the main ideas of both Presidents Bushes, both good

Republicans that I am guessing you voted for. If you don't love the New

World Order, then why did you vote it into the Presidency, the Senate,

and Congress, and now (indirectly) the Supreme Court?

Stop complaining about what you helped do to us. When you find yourself

in a hole, then stop digging. And if you don't like the New World

Order, then stop voting it into office.

Tom

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north342.html

In 1990, conservatives were more likely to recognize this vision of

world transformation as being at odds with the American Constitutional

tradition of limited government. Conservatives today apparently no

longer have qualms about a President who commits the nation's resources

to the creation of a new world order.

January 23, 2006

Great points, Tom!

Those of you who like to read will want get Wendell Berry's newest book,

" The Way of Ignorance " . (He's not for it, just observing it.)

It shows in detail how the New World Order has been visited upon us by

both Republicans and Democrats and the ways it has devastated farm life.

He also has some great solutions that are predicated on our work at

local levels. Every good rebellion begins this way!

Tom Chapin wrote:

> >> Before you entangle yourselves with the ACLU, take a good

> >>look at its pedigree and the causes it has, and continues to,

> >>promote : Jesus said " by their fruits ye shall know them. "

>

> Right Gordon, like when the ACLU joined with Conservatives to stop

> national ID cards. And to stop airlines from datamining airline

> passengers info (CAPPS II). Or joined with conservatives to fight the

> Patriot Act. And the FCC push for radio monopolies. And innumerable

> times when Conservatives have ranted and railed like banshees against

> the ACLU but were the first in line to ask for its help when they found

> themselves getting the short end of the stick...and got help...

>

> Because there are many of us here, Gordon, who put up with all your

> ranting and raving and total BS and are still here holding our noses and

> still trying our best to work with you for the common good. So stop

> bitching and start helping.

>

> And writes:

> >It was only recently that I learned how the public schools

> >are being used as a vehicle to usher in the new world order.

>

> Uh, , hate to break this to you, but the phrase " New World Order "

> is one of the main ideas of both Presidents Bushes, both good

> Republicans that I am guessing you voted for. If you don't love the New

> World Order, then why did you vote it into the Presidency, the Senate,

> and Congress, and now (indirectly) the Supreme Court?

>

> Stop complaining about what you helped do to us. When you find yourself

> in a hole, then stop digging. And if you don't like the New World

> Order, then stop voting it into office.

>

> Tom

>

> http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north342.html

> In 1990, conservatives were more likely to recognize this vision of

> world transformation as being at odds with the American Constitutional

> tradition of limited government. Conservatives today apparently no

> longer have qualms about a President who commits the nation's resources

> to the creation of a new world order.

January 23, 2006

Gordon expostulates:

>Pay attention to the posts, Mr. Chapin, and you'll have to admit that

>the majority of members of this forum are Christians who want to ...

.... to force their religion down the throats of others and show their own attitude of moral superiority? Eh, Gordon?

No, Gordon, I simply note that the non-Christians (and the real Christians here as opposed to the self-publicizing ones) do not feel the need to constantly parade their religion in front of everyone else.

Because the non-Christians (and the real Christians) have both read the Bible instead of simply trying to thump people over the head with it, and they can read and understand the Parable of the Pharisee and the Publican, and realize that the depth of one's religion is in inverse relationship to one's tendency to shout it at others:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2018:11-14; & version=9;

>the ACLU started out and still is a communist front.

Total BS. We on the Left got rid of all our Communists decades ago. We gave them to you, and you accepted Communism in the form of the Neo-Cons right into your hearts and legislatures.

The few real, genuine Conservatives remaining know all too well the sordid story of how the Trotskyist Communists became disenchanted with the Left and first tried to become "Scoop" Democrats, and when they didn't get anywhere, they joined the Reagan Administration as Neo-Conservatives. All you have to do is ask one of the few actual unbought Conservatives left in the House, Texas Congressman Ron :

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/neo-conned.htm

"... the modern-day neocons have come from the far left, a group historically identified as former Trotskyists. "

>One of the main tenets of communism is the elimination of

>private property.

Which is why the Neo-Con Bush Administration, elected by Conservative dupes is doing everything it can to eliminate private property (by pushing NAIS, NAFTA, CAFTA, SHAFTA)...where all property will be owned by corporations and merely rented to us. And what is not real property will be converted to "intellectual property" in the form of patents and copyrights.

You haven't a clue who is supporting liberty and who has conned (neo-conned) you into supporting your own slavery. Which is why raw milk is in trouble. You can't have freedom when you insist on voting in the very people who are taking away your freedom just because they call themselves Republicans or Conservatives. If you can't do the research to see them for who they are, then you deserve the slavery you are voting for.

Tom

January 23, 2006

Thank you for this post Tom.

Regardless of what a person's beliefs are with regard to religion and abortion rights, the ACLU is there to defend the rights of the American People......period.

The NAIS violates the rights of the American people and if the ACLU receives enough letters, they will help.

That is the only reason I have posted the info about them. This group is not interested in anything but maintaining our farms and providing and consuming raw dairy which will become impossible if the government is allowed to tell us what to do with our land and animals.

K.C.

Re: Re: antiACLU as well as antiNAIS

Gordon expostulates:

>Pay attention to the posts, Mr. Chapin, and you'll have to admit that

>the majority of members of this forum are Christians who want to ...

.... to force their religion down the throats of others and show their own attitude of moral superiority? Eh, Gordon?

No, Gordon, I simply note that the non-Christians (and the real Christians here as opposed to the self-publicizing ones) do not feel the need to constantly parade their religion in front of everyone else.

Because the non-Christians (and the real Christians) have both read the Bible instead of simply trying to thump people over the head with it, and they can read and understand the Parable of the Pharisee and the Publican, and realize that the depth of one's religion is in inverse relationship to one's tendency to shout it at others:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2018:11-14; & version=9;

>the ACLU started out and still is a communist front.

Total BS. We on the Left got rid of all our Communists decades ago. We gave them to you, and you accepted Communism in the form of the Neo-Cons right into your hearts and legislatures.

The few real, genuine Conservatives remaining know all too well the sordid story of how the Trotskyist Communists became disenchanted with the Left and first tried to become "Scoop" Democrats, and when they didn't get anywhere, they joined the Reagan Administration as Neo-Conservatives. All you have to do is ask one of the few actual unbought Conservatives left in the House, Texas Congressman Ron :

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/neo-conned.htm

"... the modern-day neocons have come from the far left, a group historically identified as former Trotskyists. "

>One of the main tenets of communism is the elimination of

>private property.

Which is why the Neo-Con Bush Administration, elected by Conservative dupes is doing everything it can to eliminate private property (by pushing NAIS, NAFTA, CAFTA, SHAFTA)...where all property will be owned by corporations and merely rented to us. And what is not real property will be converted to "intellectual property" in the form of patents and copyrights.

You haven't a clue who is supporting liberty and who has conned (neo-conned) you into supporting your own slavery. Which is why raw milk is in trouble. You can't have freedom when you insist on voting in the very people who are taking away your freedom just because they call themselves Republicans or Conservatives. If you can't do the research to see them for who they are, then you deserve the slavery you are voting for.

Tom

January 23, 2006

Being that this is a grass roots movement, the more entities you involve the

more they notice.

Get letters to the local papers, legislators, activists, etc. If nothing

else, more people will find out about this secret law. The name of the game

is numbers. The more people that know what is going on, the more people you

get angry at what it will do and the better chance a grass roots movement

has of succeeding.

K.C.

Re: Re: antiACLU as well as antiNAIS

>>

>> Gordon expostulates:

>> >Pay attention to the posts, Mr. Chapin, and you'll have to admit that

>> >the majority of members of this forum are Christians who want to ...

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

January 23, 2006

Ugh! As one who is new to this forum, I am annoyed at the "mud-slinging" and argumentative tone this post has taken. I believe one of the "rules" of this list is to refrain from political debates and it seems that is exactly what this has become. I am here to learn what I can about raw dairy...not to listen to people's views on politics...if I wanted to debate (or listen to such debating) about personal feelings on politics, I would have joined one of those groups...

Thank you, Gordon, for having the balls to speak the truth....we need more like you.

"I do not ask that Thou should give me some high or noble task. Give me little hands to fold in mine. Give me little children to point Thy way, over the strange, sweet path that leads to You. Give me little voices to teach to pray. Give me shining eyes Thy face to see. The only crown I ask to wear is this, that I may teach my children. I do not ask that I may stand among the wise, the worthy, or the great; I only ask that softly, hand in hand my children and I may enter at the gate."

-Anonymous

-----Original Message-----From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ]On Behalf Of TinybabeSent: Monday, January 23, 2006 4:44 PMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: Re: antiACLU as well as antiNAIS

Thank you for this post Tom.

Regardless of what a person's beliefs are with regard to religion and abortion rights, the ACLU is there to defend the rights of the American People......period.

The NAIS violates the rights of the American people and if the ACLU receives enough letters, they will help.

That is the only reason I have posted the info about them. This group is not interested in anything but maintaining our farms and providing and consuming raw dairy which will become impossible if the government is allowed to tell us what to do with our land and animals.

K.C.

Re: Re: antiACLU as well as antiNAIS

Gordon expostulates:

>Pay attention to the posts, Mr. Chapin, and you'll have to admit that

>the majority of members of this forum are Christians who want to ...

.... to force their religion down the throats of others and show their own attitude of moral superiority? Eh, Gordon?

No, Gordon, I simply note that the non-Christians (and the real Christians here as opposed to the self-publicizing ones) do not feel the need to constantly parade their religion in front of everyone else.

Because the non-Christians (and the real Christians) have both read the Bible instead of simply trying to thump people over the head with it, and they can read and understand the Parable of the Pharisee and the Publican, and realize that the depth of one's religion is in inverse relationship to one's tendency to shout it at others:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2018:11-14; & version=9;

>the ACLU started out and still is a communist front.

Total BS. We on the Left got rid of all our Communists decades ago. We gave them to you, and you accepted Communism in the form of the Neo-Cons right into your hearts and legislatures.

The few real, genuine Conservatives remaining know all too well the sordid story of how the Trotskyist Communists became disenchanted with the Left and first tried to become "Scoop" Democrats, and when they didn't get anywhere, they joined the Reagan Administration as Neo-Conservatives. All you have to do is ask one of the few actual unbought Conservatives left in the House, Texas Congressman Ron :

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/neo-conned.htm

"... the modern-day neocons have come from the far left, a group historically identified as former Trotskyists. "

>One of the main tenets of communism is the elimination of

>private property.

Which is why the Neo-Con Bush Administration, elected by Conservative dupes is doing everything it can to eliminate private property (by pushing NAIS, NAFTA, CAFTA, SHAFTA)...where all property will be owned by corporations and merely rented to us. And what is not real property will be converted to "intellectual property" in the form of patents and copyrights.

You haven't a clue who is supporting liberty and who has conned (neo-conned) you into supporting your own slavery. Which is why raw milk is in trouble. You can't have freedom when you insist on voting in the very people who are taking away your freedom just because they call themselves Republicans or Conservatives. If you can't do the research to see them for who they are, then you deserve the slavery you are voting for.

Tom

January 23, 2006

Mr. Gorden , just wanted you to know that I am in favor of a woman's right to choose abortion or not. So is my son and daughter as well as my parents and brothers and sisters! Have a nice day."Gordon S. " wrote: Exposure of what the ACLU is, is there for those who care to know. I'll give you one quick for-instance. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is a judge on the Supreme Court of the United States. She got there after being one of the bright lights with the ACLU as it brought in abortion-on-demand. 4000 unborn Americans are liquidated every business in the country's abortion mills - a calculated genocide for which much credit is due the ACLU. I could go on : but

the evidence is there for those who sincerely seek to understand how the American Civil Liberties Union is an "anti-christ" outfit dedicated to destroying America's Christian heritage. Pay attention to the posts, Mr. Chapin, and you'll have to admit that the majority of members of this forum are Christians who want to assert the God-given right to use and enjoy their own private property. Contrast that with the facts that a] - the ACLU started out and still is a communist front. b] - One of the main tenets of communism is the elimination of private property. I doubt if this forum really wants to go 'way off into the issue, but if you persist, I'll provide the details of the anecdote where the Reproductive Rights fund of the ACLU bribed the Privacy Commissioner of British Columbia, namely Flaherty, to make an order preventing

me from accessing the public accounts of the Province. I was just about to prove that the BC abortion mills were grafting tax money back to the governing party. Some may be intrigued with the facts about the wicked heart of the ACLU ... but I get the distinct impression you're not one of them. ___________________________ >> >> Before you entangle yourselves with the ACLU, take a good> >>look at its pedigree and the causes it has, and continues to,> >>promote : Jesus said "by their fruits ye shall know them."> > Right Gordon, like when the ACLU joined with Conservatives to stop> national ID cards. And to stop airlines from datamining airline>

passengers info (CAPPS II). Or joined with conservatives to fight the> Patriot Act. And the FCC push for radio monopolies. And innumerable> times when Conservatives have ranted and railed like banshees against> the ACLU but were the first in line to ask for its help when they found> themselves getting the short end of the stick...and got help...> > Because there are many of us here, Gordon, who put up with all your> ranting and raving and total BS and are still here holding our noses and> still trying our best to work with you for the common good. So stop> bitching and start helping.> > And writes:> >It was only recently that I learned how the public schools> >are being used as a vehicle to usher in the new world order.> > Uh, , hate to break this to you, but the phrase "New World Order"> is one of the main ideas of both Presidents Bushes, both

good> Republicans that I am guessing you voted for. If you don't love the New> World Order, then why did you vote it into the Presidency, the Senate,> and Congress, and now (indirectly) the Supreme Court?> > Stop complaining about what you helped do to us. When you find yourself> in a hole, then stop digging. And if you don't like the New World> Order, then stop voting it into office.> > Tom> > http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north342.html> In 1990, conservatives were more likely to recognize this vision of> world transformation as being at odds with the American Constitutional> tradition of limited government. Conservatives today apparently no> longer have qualms about a President who commits the nation's resources> to the creation of a new world order.> _______________________ Alpenpässe Chèvres SuissesAlpine Pass Swiss Dairy Goats Naftoli, Efraim, & Ilana Pickard 45201 Carmel Valley road Greenfield, CA 93927

Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

January 23, 2006

With regard to both of your posts. Thank you for believing in the right of the people to choose and to believe in the right to freedom of expression.

That why we all need to fight the NAIS. These rights will be taken away along with our animals and the right to milk them and consume the wonderful food of life they give.

So, let's forget the nastiness (it's not worth your time and it's not being heard anyway) and use our energy to write those letters to the newspapers and legislators.

K.C.

Re: Re: antiACLU as well as antiNAIS

Mr. Gorden , just wanted you to know that I am in favor of a woman's right to choose abortion or not. So is my son and daughter as well as my parents and brothers and sisters! Have a nice day."Gordon S. " wrote:

Exposure of what the ACLU is, is there for those who care to know. I'll give you one quick for-instance.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg is a judge on the Supreme Court of the United States. She got there after being one of the bright lights with the ACLU as it brought in abortion-on-demand. 4000 unborn Americans are liquidated every business in the country's abortion mills - a calculated genocide for which much credit is due the ACLU.

I could go on : but the evidence is there for those who sincerely seek to understand how the American Civil Liberties Union is an "anti-christ" outfit dedicated to destroying America's Christian heritage.

Pay attention to the posts, Mr. Chapin, and you'll have to admit that the majority of members of this forum are Christians who want to assert the God-given right to use and enjoy their own private property. Contrast that with the facts that a] - the ACLU started out and still is a communist front. b] - One of the main tenets of communism is the elimination of private property.

I doubt if this forum really wants to go 'way off into the issue, but if you persist, I'll provide the details of the anecdote where the Reproductive Rights fund of the ACLU bribed the Privacy Commissioner of British Columbia, namely Flaherty, to make an order preventing me from accessing the public accounts of the Province. I was just about to prove that the BC abortion mills were grafting tax money back to the governing party.

Some may be intrigued with the facts about the wicked heart of the ACLU ... but I get the distinct impression you're not one of them. ___________________________

>> >> Before you entangle yourselves with the ACLU, take a good> >>look at its pedigree and the causes it has, and continues to,> >>promote : Jesus said "by their fruits ye shall know them."> > Right Gordon, like when the ACLU joined with Conservatives to stop> national ID cards. And to stop airlines from datamining airline> passengers info (CAPPS II). Or joined with conservatives to fight the> Patriot Act. And the FCC push for radio monopolies. And innumerable> times when Conservatives have ranted and railed like banshees against> the ACLU but were the first in line to ask for its help when they found> themselves getting the short end of the stick...and got help...> > Because there are many of us here, Gordon, who put up with all your> ranting and raving and total BS and are still here holding our noses and> still trying our best to work with you for the common good. So stop> bitching and start helping.> > And writes:> >It was only recently that I learned how the public schools> >are being used as a vehicle to usher in the new world order.> > Uh, , hate to break this to you, but the phrase "New World Order"> is one of the main ideas of both Presidents Bushes, both good> Republicans that I am guessing you voted for. If you don't love the New> World Order, then why did you vote it into the Presidency, the Senate,> and Congress, and now (indirectly) the Supreme Court?> > Stop complaining about what you helped do to us. When you find yourself> in a hole, then stop digging. And if you don't like the New World> Order, then stop voting it into office.> > Tom> > http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north342.html> In 1990, conservatives were more likely to recognize this vision of> world transformation as being at odds with the American Constitutional> tradition of limited government. Conservatives today apparently no> longer have qualms about a President who commits the nation's resources> to the creation of a new world order.>

_______________________

Alpenpässe Chèvres SuissesAlpine Pass Swiss Dairy Goats

Naftoli, Efraim, & Ilana Pickard

45201 Carmel Valley road

Greenfield, CA 93927

Yahoo! PhotosRing in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

January 23, 2006

Since this is not goat or goat milk related, for those of us who, as Christians, oppose abortion, could we drop this kind of discussion please.

Thanks,

Noah