Re:

[Guest guest]

I was just talking about Old Francis Pottenger's cats yesterday. Anyway,there is a web site called Price-Pottenger Nutritioun Foundation. I am not a member but you can read a few articles on there web site. http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/articles_list.htm This one talks about the cats http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/PottsCats.html And this one talks about the heat liable point of cooked foods http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/HeatLabile.htm Welcome Carolyn to the fastest growing group on the internet. Costanzacarolyn hunter

wrote: well guys...i guess it's time to intro ourselves a littleallen is 73 and i'm 66.Francis Pottinger's SCIENTIFIC experiments with several generations ofcats, was the one who clued me in to the REAL differences betweenpasteurized /homogenized milk ....and the raw stuff .....straight from theruminent.not get sick.Carolyn HunterOroville, CA.hunter10039@...

Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Carolyn

I tremendously enjoyed your intro! Welcome! I'm rushing out the door but wanted to post some geophagy information that I thought you might enjoy. It doesn't include goats or chickens, but does cover a number of birds including geese, giving a great overview into their digestive tracts. As I watched my daughter take horse-riding lessons the other day, the chickens were clucking around my feet, digging up bits of dirt. I had to wonder if they weren't after the same thing as other birds - salt in the earth? It was long speculated that parrots in South America ate clay in an attempt to eat minerals. Since then, it has been discovered that certain elephants make an annual treck into salt caves in order to eat the dirt which is rich in salt - since that discovery, it is now speculated animals of a wide variety of species eat dirt for the same purpose. I've not dug into it too deeply for animals other than parrots, but I do find it to be an intriguing concept. I wonder if there are salt " requirements " for goats, cows, chickens, etc.? Anyway....hope you enjoy....here's a link to my family blog where I have a couple of good links to resources....

http://www.ericsons.net/188/avian-geophagy

Sharon, NH

as to milk for chickens, we sometimes give it to the chickens, chicks,cats, dogs, etc. depending on if we have a surplus. I consider chickens

and turkeys, as ground-based vultures. seemingly they can eat almostANYTHING and not get sick.I've observed them eating various mud and dirt, and hypothisize it must bethe microscopic microbes, moulds, worm or other insect eggs, etc they're

after?I have also observed my goats (only in the spring-type weather) after rain....to eat..... not only the grass, but the roots and dirt that cling toit, as it is easily pulled up from the earth after the winter rains, and

the oncoming spring flush of growth is current.the dirt has many types of what i think are related to the probiotics wepurchase and take as pills such as acidophilus.

[Guest guest]

Ina,Did either of you grow up on a farm/ranch? If so, do you remember any relatives " pickling " their veggies (sauerkraut, beets, etc.) the old-fashioned way without vinegar? I love following the Nourishing Traditions way of eating, but I think the fermented veggies are my favorite. And when you buy NT, be sure to look up Sally's advice about corn. It has to be soaked in a pickling lime mixture before you eat it. It sounds like you and your husband are life-long learners, which I greatly admire. I always wished my folks had been that way, but they're sticking with their traditional processed and canned foods, even though both are battling cancer. While you're waiting for NT to arrive, check out the Weston A. Price website. Sally is president of WAP and has a lot of helpful articles on their website: http://www.westonaprice.org/index.html Best to you both!Sharon, NH On 3/4/06, ggilks <

ggilks@...> wrote:

Sharon, thanks you for the in depth soaking of flour/grains. I will do as you suggest and buy Sally Fallons book. I am sure there are a lot of healthy recipes I am in need of. I have a grinder for my own wheat and a stone grinder for my corn. We are very new to this life style at 77 and 67 and we are learning healthy eating everyday. Raw Milk and butter is our favorite. Thanks again Ina in Texas

[Guest guest]

Sharon I am listed in WAP Raw milk list for Texas...I make kraut and have all of my life. I can and freeze. Make jelly. I was raised in the country and in my heart never left...My parents taught me well.....Ina in Texas

Re:

Ina,Did either of you grow up on a farm/ranch? If so, do you remember any relatives "pickling" their veggies (sauerkraut, beets, etc.) the old-fashioned way without vinegar? I love following the Nourishing Traditions way of eating, but I think the fermented veggies are my favorite. And when you buy NT, be sure to look up Sally's advice about corn. It has to be soaked in a pickling lime mixture before you eat it. It sounds like you and your husband are life-long learners, which I greatly admire. I always wished my folks had been that way, but they're sticking with their traditional processed and canned foods, even though both are battling cancer. While you're waiting for NT to arrive, check out the Weston A. Price website. Sally is president of WAP and has a lot of helpful articles on their website: http://www.westonaprice.org/index.html Best to you both!Sharon, NH

Sharon, thanks you for the in depth soaking of flour/grains. I will do as you suggest and buy Sally Fallons book. I am sure there are a lot of healthy recipes I am in need of. I have a grinder for my own wheat and a stone grinder for my corn. We are very new to this life style at 77 and 67 and we are learning healthy eating everyday. Raw Milk and butter is our favorite. Thanks again Ina in Texas

[Guest guest]

Hmmmpfffff. I'd say pasteurization is the culprit. Sharon, NHOn 6/3/06, kathryn russell <lotzakdz@...

> wrote:

Beam said elevated bacterial counts in samples from the recalled batch probably

were caused after production, maybe during packaging.

" We've yet to identify any one aspect that is the culprit, " Beam

said. He said the outbreak does not suggest there is any ongoing concern with

milk production or pasteurization at the prison.

[Guest guest]

This should be contrasted to the study done in prison inmates years ago. The inmates were drinking milk from the prison dairy. And the study showed that none of the prisoners showed any evidence of disease. Even though the dairy, and the milk were visibly contaminated from very bad milking processes. The difference, that milk was not pasteurized nor homogenized and I am willing to bet that those cows were in pasture on green grass.

Ted

Bacteria Blamed for Sickening Inmates

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the laugh of the day. If they had only left the milk raw...it would have killed the nasty bugs added later and none would be the wiser! LOL I think justice is good. Prison run dairy for the prisoners to all get sick huh? LOL

[Guest guest]

do you have a link for this study?

Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canadagdchik@...http://www.winnipegbeach.com/chikouskyfarms/

Re:

This should be contrasted to the study done in prison inmates years ago. The inmates were drinking milk from the prison dairy. And the study showed that none of the prisoners showed any evidence of disease. Even though the dairy, and the milk were visibly contaminated from very bad milking processes. The difference, that milk was not pasteurized nor homogenized and I am willing to bet that those cows were in pasture on green grass.

Ted

[Guest guest]

I can only speak for goat milk, most thaw in cold water. I have heard of adding 1 tsp of baking soda to milk but I am not sure if that has anything to do with the cream.

Nina Shady 80 AcresMoran, Texas ADGA Purebred Nubians

[Guest guest]

I have heard of adding soda also. I think I will experiment with a small amount and see if this works, Worth a try...Thanks Ina

Re:

I can only speak for goat milk, most thaw in cold water. I have heard of adding 1 tsp of baking soda to milk but I am not sure if that has anything to do with the cream.

Nina Shady 80 AcresMoran, Texas ADGA Purebred Nubians

[Guest guest]

You don't need to add anything, you need to look at how you are

harvesting and freezing. Milk separates because you have given

lactic acid producing bacteria an opportunity to GROW! That makes

milk curdle, basic cheesemaking 101. Adding the baking soda 'works'

because it neutralizes the lactic acid that bacteria have made.

Better than doctoring your milk is to solve the problem causeing it

to curdle!

When you milk, you need to get that milk at 103*F down to just

above freezing ASAP. That doesn't mean finishing chores and then

setting a gallon in the refrigerator or freezer. If you want milk

that will consistantly freeze and thaw without curdling then milk,

strain into a half gallon (or smaller container, for years we used 2

liter pop bottles) and drop into an ICE WATER BATH (I use a clean

five gallon bucket and it's filled about half and half with ice and

water. It's right there at goat side.) Gallon jugs will not work as

you can't get milk cold enough, fast enough all the way through.

Now, go milk another goat and when done with that one (about five

minutes later) repeat straining, bottleing, and take the previous

bottle out and GENTLY shake it (I just rock it end to end a couple of

times) to mix now cold outer layer of milk with still warm inner

layer of milk.

You'll need a lot more ice than you think to keep ice water bath

full of ice. I like using the Glad lidded containers to freeze water

in as they are convienent size, the lids keep me from splattering

water as I walk to freezer, and they dump out easy. I like the ones

that are about the size of a small loaf of bread.

When you are done with chores, take now very chilled milk and

drop it into a DEEP freeze. You can't freeze milk in a refrigerator

freezer for more than a few days due to the freeze/thaw cycle they

have to remain frost free.

I fill a chest type deep freeze to sell milk during our dry time

in November, December, and January. Always thaw in the

refrigerator.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

>

> I have heard of adding soda also. I think I will experiment with a

small amount and see if this works, Worth a try...Thanks Ina

>

>

>

> Re:

>

>

> I can only speak for goat milk, most thaw in cold water. I have

heard of adding 1 tsp of baking soda to milk but I am not sure if

that has anything to do with the cream.

>

>

>

> Nina

> Shady 80 Acres

> Moran, Texas

> ADGA Purebred Nubians

>

[Guest guest]

Donna, We milk 6 cows and have around 20 gallons of milk each morning. Some don't have a problem getting the cream back into the milk some do. Some say it's like little crystals of butter and they can never incorporate it completely. I know two people that does theirs the way you said only on a larger scale and they still have problems also....Will keep trying....Ina

Re: > > > I can only speak for goat milk, most thaw in cold water. I have heard of adding 1 tsp of baking soda to milk but I am not sure if that has anything to do with the cream. > > > > Nina > Shady 80 Acres> Moran, Texas > ADGA Purebred Nubians>

[Guest guest]

We are offering a special fee for website development to WAPF members.

Please contact me at .

Langlois

john.langlois@...

www.foggybottomwebdesign.com

www.foggybottomfarms.com

ggilks wrote:

I am looking for the gentleman who

sometime ago posted he would do a website at discount for members of

WAPF at a discount. Well, I have lost that information. Please contact

me if you know who he is, Sorry, about posting this. Thanks Ina

[Guest guest]

I just use the zip lock or glad plastic. You can also find cheap plastic at your local dollar stores

Ann StagnerTornado Alley Nubians & Boersville, AR

STOP NAIS NOW http://NoNAIS.org Arkansas_Against_NAIS

Should I Write My Congressman?Each Congressman has 2 ends, a thinking end and a sitting end. Since his Whole Success depends on his Seat, WHY BOTHER. (Chad Trio Early 70s)

Does anyone know where I might be able to purchase plastic containers to put cottage cheese and yogurt in. I have looked and can't find. Thanks Ina

[Guest guest]

I'm no Michigander (although much of my family lives there), but

isn't it the Mackinac bridge? I think I remember going there as a kid.

>

> we are going to mackinaw for the 50th aniversary celebration of the

> opening

> of the mackinaw bridge. its gonna be great!

>

> eric abbys dad

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yup, it's Mackinac, but pronounced Mackinaw.

Have fun their , I haven't been to that bridge since I was a kid, and I

don't think I could ever drive a car over it myself!

cathylynn2 wrote:

I'm no Michigander (although much of my family lives there), but

isn't it the Mackinac bridge? I think I remember going there as a kid.

>

> we are going to mackinaw for the 50th aniversary celebration of the

> opening

> of the mackinaw bridge. its gonna be great!

>

> eric abbys dad

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's too funny, my cousin in SC just told me she's gonna be there,

too. It's a small world!

Debi

> >

> > we are going to mackinaw for the 50th aniversary celebration of the

> > opening

> > of the mackinaw bridge. its gonna be great!

> >

> > eric abbys dad

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone! I am the mother of twin boys that I adopted from Korea when they

were 8 months old. Now the boys are 13. I have always (am still am) very proud

of them. They ae 4.0 students, very musically inclined, and long distance

runners. However; a few years ago, during cold and flu season, I noticed they

were very concerned about hand washing excessively. The teachers had been

sending bottles of hand sanitizer, and the problems just seemed to escalate from

there! We have gone from that to now using an 8 ounce bottle of hand soap daily,

fear of touching door knobs, EXCESSIVE laundry in the clothes hamper, etc. etc.

etc. I could go on forever, but you probably get the jist. We started with our

school guidance counselor last spring. The first thing he said was he was

confused why I had made an appt. to see him, with the boys being such good

students and no behavioral issues. However, that morning he had walked into the

bathroom when one of the boys was washing his hands. He immediately recognized

OCD. He said he looked like a surgeon preparing for surgery: ten minute scrub

all the way up to the elbows! Their hands are raw, chapped, cut, and bleed as

you can imaginge.  After much searching, we found a psychologist who felt she

could help us. So far, the cognitive behavioral therapy has helped one of the

twins manage his symptoms; the other however; not such an easy task. Medication

is in order for him. After two long months of waiting to get into the

psychiatrist (since the psychologist can't prescribe meds), my son told the

psychiatrist that he will not take any medication. He " doesn't want to become

dependent on it. " He went on to elaborate that no of us knows precisely what is

in the medication either. It could be something harmful. The psychiatrist of

course wrote out the prescription for zoloft, handed it to me, threw up his

hands, and said " Good luck. " The dr. assured my son that zoloft is approved by

the FDA and would not be harmful to him, still he refuses. He also told him it

may take up to two months before he noticed any improvement. So, do I pin down

my 13 year old daily and force the medication down his throat? No, I know that

is ridiculous! He is very strong, probably stronger than me, but I can't go on

like this. Daily crying, arguments, and my marriage is suffering as well. Please

help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Hi , welcome! A lot of parents here have dealt with germ, contamination

issues, including the handwashing and laundry.

Glad that therapy has helped one of the twins. Does he ever talk to the other

about it?

I'm a single mom, 3 sons. I have nonidentical twins, one of which has OCD. It

began around age 11.5 and he's 21 now. Haven't had the handwashing/germ issues

with him really. Right now his OCD is more " bad thought " type. He also refuses

medication. So I understand about " what do I do? " And he was on Celexa for 9th

and 10th grades, stopped it when he was doing better and felt he could manage

OCD on his own, OCD returned, etc., and he just wouldn't go back on medication.

He was willing to try some alternative type things though. Do you think your

twin might? With alternative supplements, you just don't know if it will help

or not. Some people benefit, some don't. So it is just a trial to see if it

helps or not.

We had used inositol powder (in the B vitamin family) during middle school years

and it worked well for . For various reasons though (thought maybe it

was pooping out he'd been on it so long, then my $ running short, etc.) we tried

the Celexa in 9th grade. When he refused meds after that, we tried inositol

powder again a couple times but still no help. However, others have found it

helped their children (and some it didn't) so it may be worth a try if your son

is willing. We just mixed it in with a cup of Kool-Aid since inositol is said

to have a sweet taste, but others mix it in with different liquids, juices

(don't use apple though, it fizzed too much for us, LOL). Here's one article on

it:

http://westsuffolkpsych.homestead.com/Inositol_and_OCD.html

Some parents found that a couple Native Remedies products helped. I believe the

ones were Mindsoothe and PureCalm; I know Mindsoothe was one, guessing PureCalm

the other. If you look at ingredients, its herbal type.

http://www.nativeremedies.com/products/mindsoothe-emotional-wellness-infoB.html

Just suggesting above since your son is talking " ingredients " as a reason

against Zoloft.

However, therapy for him should continue, the therapy is the *key* to winning

against OCD, bossing back, learning how to, etc. But, as often happens, many

need a bit of medication to lower anxiety and help OCD some to participate in

the therapy and have more success.

Just some quick thoughts this morning. Hang in there! I know sometimes I

wished had been younger, at the age where he still listened to mom and

did as was told " take your medicine.... "

>

> Hi everyone! I am the mother of twin boys that I adopted from Korea when they

> were 8 months old. Now the boys are 13. I have always (am still am) very proud

> of them. They ae 4.0 students, very musically inclined, and long distance

> runners. However; a few years ago, during cold and flu season, I noticed they

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your suggesions, BJ. I am appreciative of any ideas to try because

nothing much has helped so far. Thank you!

________________________________

To:

Sent: Sun, September 19, 2010 2:09:56 PM

Subject: Re: RE:

 

Welcome to the group, .

Our son's OCD was so bad, he asked for medication. And he's the type that would

read everything about it too, then be against it for the information. I think

the difference is, he was on it when he was young (didn't question it then), and

he saw what a difference it made for him. So when his OCD flared again, and

became the most severe it had ever been, he wanted back on the medication. The

med, coupled with the right therapy (CBT/ERP) helped him to get his life back.

Did your twins become ill at all during that cold and flu season? Was that the

first you noticed them showing any signs of OCD?

They sound like overachievers, which can be a part of OCD perfectionism. Our son

can be that way a bit too. So wondered if that was the only thing that was an

indication before this onset a few years ago.

The reason I ask, is because there is a condition called PANDAS, where exposure

to the strep virus, can bring on a sudden onset of OCD. It is considered to be

much less common than regular OCD, but the treatment, with medication, is

different. If you think that might apply, you can post to the group and ask for

more info.

Here is also some information from a book by Dr. Aureen Wagner, one of the

experts in the field of OCD. . .

http://www.lighthouse-press.com/LHP%20website%20downloads/PANDAS.pdf

Having said that, I can tell you that even with regular OCD, you can have flares

that will appear to be out of the blue. If they are not telling you what is

going on in their heads, you might not realize what they can be dealing with,

but will notice when it gets more severe and harder to hide.

We've gone through the handwashing OCs with our son too. At the time we didn't

know about ERP, or even that our son had OCD, so we just tried to deal with it.

We tried to use soap that was less abrasive to his skin, while also encouraging

him to use lotions to try to prevent the cracking. . .Using Neosporin when it

did crack to try to prevent infections. It was awful, so you have my sympathy.

I hope he is willing to try some of the natural things suggested. It helps

for some, and any relief for your family would be great.

The only other thing I can suggest, is if he is resistant to meds and exposure

therapy, you can give him incentives to try, but expect there to be frustration

and upset. But, be careful not to approach it in a " this is punishment for your

behavior " manner, because he is in the grips of OCD and being controlled too,

but rather a " the OCD is creating some issues, so we are going to have to face

them together, as a family, and it will require your help and assistance " . For

instance, if he is creating a lot of laundry, have him help with the excessive

laundry, by doing his own. Or if he is using excessive soap, you could set

limits. . Say, give him a certain amount of soap, obviously more than the usual,

but tell him once it is gone, he will have to pay for extra since it is rather

expensive to have to buy so much soap, . . It might give him the incentive to

try to work on the exposure exercises. It might nudge him into wanting to do

something about it. Just a suggestion.

So sorry there are daily arguments and crying. Our family has been there. It

takes a toll on every member of the family. Bringing a therapist on board, who

REALLY understood OCD helped a lot. He not only taught our son how to do ERP, he

taught us how to help our son, so we started working together as a family

against the OCD, rather than battling each other. OCD is a wretched disorder,

that can bring everyone to their knees.

Glad you found our group, . It's a great place to get suggestions, info,

and support on those days where you just need someplace to vent.

BJ

>

> Hi everyone! I am the mother of twin boys that I adopted from Korea when they

> were 8 months old. Now the boys are 13. I have always (am still am) very proud

> of them. They ae 4.0 students, very musically inclined, and long distance

> runners. However; a few years ago, during cold and flu season, I noticed they

> were very concerned about hand washing excessively. The teachers had been

> sending bottles of hand sanitizer, and the problems just seemed to escalate

>from

>

> there! We have gone from that to now using an 8 ounce bottle of hand soap

>daily,

>

> fear of touching door knobs, EXCESSIVE laundry in the clothes hamper, etc.

etc.

>

> etc. I could go on forever, but you probably get the jist. We started with our

> school guidance counselor last spring. The first thing he said was he was

> confused why I had made an appt. to see him, with the boys being such good

> students and no behavioral issues. However, that morning he had walked into

the

>

> bathroom when one of the boys was washing his hands. He immediately recognized

> OCD. He said he looked like a surgeon preparing for surgery: ten minute scrub

> all the way up to the elbows! Their hands are raw, chapped, cut, and bleed as

> you can imaginge.  After much searching, we found a psychologist who felt

she

> could help us. So far, the cognitive behavioral therapy has helped one of the

> twins manage his symptoms; the other however; not such an easy task.

Medication

>

> is in order for him. After two long months of waiting to get into the

> psychiatrist (since the psychologist can't prescribe meds), my son told the

> psychiatrist that he will not take any medication. He " doesn't want to become

> dependent on it. " He went on to elaborate that no of us knows precisely what

is

>

> in the medication either. It could be something harmful. The psychiatrist of

> course wrote out the prescription for zoloft, handed it to me, threw up his

> hands, and said " Good luck. " The dr. assured my son that zoloft is approved by

> the FDA and would not be harmful to him, still he refuses. He also told him it

> may take up to two months before he noticed any improvement. So, do I pin down

> my 13 year old daily and force the medication down his throat? No, I know that

> is ridiculous! He is very strong, probably stronger than me, but I can't go on

> like this. Daily crying, arguments, and my marriage is suffering as well.

>Please

>

> help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rei ,

I also live in Houston and I'm just now starting to look into PANDAS as well for

my daughter. There is a PANDAS support group meeting on:

Thursday, September 30th 2010 6:00 PM - 7:30 PM

Montgomery County South Regional Library - Children's Room

2101 Lake Robbins Drive

The Woodlands, Texas, 77380

\

Have you gone to the website

http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showforum=17?  This is where I found

the support group for Houston via the user named  " 3BoysMom " .

I hope this helps.

Cassi Graves