RE: Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

[Guest guest]

,

If I were to buy a home and I found it was

sealed I would not buy it. Sealing does not tell me it was completed correctly.

Furthermore, no one can tell me when the sealant will breakdown. Who owns the problem

at that point? Will the sealants become an issue due to chemicals in the near

future? Restoring the area to pre-loss condition is no coating when started, no

coating when completed.

I see most coatings are to cover up what hasn’t

been cleaned correctly. And who will know after its been coated? The contractor

made good quick money only to become the clients problems later in time (or the

new owner’s).

I do not allow coating on my projects

besides the area is required to be cleaned prior to coating so why coat? Why

add another chemical when not necessary? If it’s a moisture problem, doesn’t

the S520 and every other document say mitigate the moisture problem? So if the

moisture problems is resolved, why coat?

Bob/Ma

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of gary rosen

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006

3:49 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Coatings

and remediator instruction at IICRC?

I took the AMRT (IICRC) training from Restcon. They did not teach

coating.

In our experience there are several reasons to coat although we have

never used the Anabec product. Wee have used encapsulants from and

Design Polymerics.

1.) We do not think this is a valid reason but many people coat

because they can charge by the square foot and this is how the can make a good

profit margin.

2.) When you encapsulate you know that mold will not grow on that

surface even if it gets a little wet. In an attic there is almost always

some moisture from sweating AC ducts or whatever. So encapsulation gives you

added protection.

3.) When you encapsulate it is easy to provide clearance.

If everything is white ... you take a picture and you are clear. (We

also require pictures of wood structural members before encapsulation.)

Rosen

Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

Group:

I'm

currently working on a project that involved a fairly modest water loss in the

attic of a single family residence. The source was a kinked condensate

line from the forced-air A/C unit located in the attic (space heat is via a

combination of radiant floor and hot water fin-tube convectors).

A

limited area of the blown-in cellulose insulation and adjoining framing was

wet; fungal growth was visible on the trusses. The amount of water released

was not enough to flow through the poly vapor retarder and did not

significantly damage the underlying gyp-board ceiling.

The

remediation contractor removed all of the insulation from the entire ~1200 sq

ft attic, used ice blasting to remove fungal materials from the affected

framing elements, then initially

used Anabec cleaning, disinfecting and protective products. To shorten a

longer story, he subsequently

returned to the home, used a Zinsser disinfectant and then sprayed clear

PermaGuard on every square inch of the framing, poly vapor retarder, and OSB

roof decking (plus the DWV piping, fireplace flue, etc.). BTW,

PermaGuard contains small quantities of chlorothalonil (an EPA-registered

pesticide), but the coating itself is not EPA registered.

When

I asked why he coated every square inch of every surface in the attic (even

those that had not been water damaged) the remediator responded that he was

instructed to do so during training at the IICRC. He named the specific

instructors, and they are familiar persons within the IICRC. Their names

are not of critical importance in this inquiry.

Here

are my questions -- I'd appreciate your feedback.

1.

Has anyone else been instructed to use a coating in this way by the IICRC or by

others? If so, what thought process was used or justification

provided?

2.

Does anyone have any experience in using this coating over the Anabec

" Anashield " ? Could there be a chemical compatibility

concern? Could the " organosilane " (Anashield) inhibit or slow

curing of the PermaGuard (a " latex acrylic resin interior

sealer " )?

Replies

either on this list or privately (wab -at- michaelsengineering .com) are

welcome.

TIA.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane

A. Baker, P.E., CIH

Division

Manager, Indoor Air Quality

MICHAELS

ENGINEERING

" Real Professionals. Real Solutions. "

811 Monitor Street, Suite

100

PO Box

2377

La Crosse,

Wisconsin 54602

Phone

, ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wab@michaels

engineering. com

On the

web at: http://www.michaels engineering. com

" To

love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more

fun? "

-

Graham

NOTICE:

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information. Use and

further disclosure of the information by the recipient must be consistent with

applicable laws, regulations and agreements. If you received this e-mail in

error, please notify the sender; delete the e-mail; and do not use, disclose or

store the information it contains.

Everyone is raving about the

all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

[Guest guest]

The first edition of the IICRC's S520 prescribed prison, caning and other

acts of retribution for using encapsulants (sealing and coating) on a

remediation project.

The recently peer reviewed copy of the S520 listed encapsulant

usage as a " post-remediation consideration " .

An IICRC instructor who teaches sealing? Obviously someone was asleep during

class (either the student or the instructor).

RR

_____

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf

Of Bob

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:38 PM

To: iequality

Subject: RE: Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

,

If I were to buy a home and I found it was sealed I would not buy it.

Sealing does not tell me it was completed correctly. Furthermore, no one can

tell me when the sealant will breakdown. Who owns the problem at that point?

Will the sealants become an issue due to chemicals in the near future?

Restoring the area to pre-loss condition is no coating when started, no

coating when completed.

I see most coatings are to cover up what hasn't been cleaned correctly. And

who will know after its been coated? The contractor made good quick money

only to become the clients problems later in time (or the new owner's).

I do not allow coating on my projects besides the area is required to be

cleaned prior to coating so why coat? Why add another chemical when not

necessary? If it's a moisture problem, doesn't the S520 and every other

document say mitigate the moisture problem? So if the moisture problems is

resolved, why coat?

Bob/Ma

_____

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf

Of gary rosen

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

I took the AMRT (IICRC) training from Restcon. They did not teach coating.

In our experience there are several reasons to coat although we have never

used the Anabec product. Wee have used encapsulants from and Design

Polymerics.

1.) We do not think this is a valid reason but many people coat because

they can charge by the square foot and this is how the can make a good

profit margin.

2.) When you encapsulate you know that mold will not grow on that surface

even if it gets a little wet. In an attic there is almost always some

moisture from sweating AC ducts or whatever. So encapsulation gives you

added protection.

3.) When you encapsulate it is easy to provide clearance. If everything is

white ... you take a picture and you are clear. (We also require pictures

of wood structural members before encapsulation.)

Rosen

Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

Group:

I'm currently working on a project that involved a fairly modest water loss

in the attic of a single family residence. The source was a kinked

condensate line from the forced-air A/C unit located in the attic (space

heat is via a combination of radiant floor and hot water fin-tube

convectors).

A limited area of the blown-in cellulose insulation and adjoining framing

was wet; fungal growth was visible on the trusses. The amount of water

released was not enough to flow through the poly vapor retarder and did not

significantly damage the underlying gyp-board ceiling.

The remediation contractor removed all of the insulation from the entire

~1200 sq ft attic, used ice blasting to remove fungal materials from the

affected framing elements, then initially used Anabec cleaning, disinfecting

and protective products. To shorten a longer story, he subsequently

returned to the home, used a Zinsser disinfectant and then sprayed clear

PermaGuard on every square inch of the framing, poly vapor retarder, and OSB

roof decking (plus the DWV piping, fireplace flue, etc.). BTW, PermaGuard

contains small quantities of chlorothalonil (an EPA-registered pesticide),

but the coating itself is not EPA registered.

When I asked why he coated every square inch of every surface in the attic

(even those that had not been water damaged) the remediator responded that

he was instructed to do so during training at the IICRC. He named the

specific instructors, and they are familiar persons within the IICRC. Their

names are not of critical importance in this inquiry.

Here are my questions -- I'd appreciate your feedback.

1. Has anyone else been instructed to use a coating in this way by the

IICRC or by others? If so, what thought process was used or justification

provided?

2. Does anyone have any experience in using this coating over the Anabec

" Anashield " ? Could there be a chemical compatibility concern? Could the

" organosilane " (Anashield) inhibit or slow curing of the PermaGuard (a

" latex acrylic resin interior sealer " )?

Replies either on this list or privately (wab -at- michaelsengineering .com)

are welcome.

TIA.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH

Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality

MICHAELS ENGINEERING

" Real Professionals. Real Solutions. "

811 Monitor Street, Suite 100

PO Box 2377

La Crosse, Wisconsin 54602

Phone , ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wab@michaels engineering. com

On the web at: <http://www.michaelsengineering.com/> http://www.michaels

engineering. com

" To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more

fun? "

- Graham

NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential

information. Use and further disclosure of the information by the recipient

must be consistent with applicable laws, regulations and agreements. If you

received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; delete the e-mail;

and do not use, disclose or store the information it contains.

_____

Everyone is raving about the

<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=45083/*http:/advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbe

ta> all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

[Guest guest]

,

How does one separate the " seeing is believing " from the " seeing is

deceiving? "

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

>

> Bob,

>

> If the client does not like the protocol then they won't hire that

> person ... unless of course the cost is much less. Then they probably

> will hire them anyway.

>

> When remediating a large attic space for example ... bleach followed

> by encapsulation can reduce the cost of remediation by a huge amount.

> Strong bleach removes mold. It does not just kill it like Microban,

> MDF-500 etc.

>

> When remediating a real estate transaction, a picture of the

> remediated wall with all the studs completely white because they are

> covered with white encapsulant has always resulted in a happy buyer

> (in my experience.) Buyers will never understand or trust lab tests

> but seeing is believing.

>

> Rosen

>

> Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

> Group: I'm currently working on a project that involved a fairly

> modest water loss in the attic of a single family residence. The

> source was a kinked condensate line from the forced-air A/C unit

> located in the attic (space heat is via a combination of radiant floor

> and hot water fin-tube convectors). A limited area of the blown-in

> cellulose insulation and adjoining framing was wet; fungal growth was

> visible on the trusses. The amount of water released was not enough to

> flow through the poly vapor retarder and did not significantly damage

> the underlying gyp- board ceiling. The remediation contractor removed

> all of the insulation from the entire ~1200 sq ft attic, used ice

> blasting to remove fungal materials from the affected framing

> elements, then initially used Anabec cleaning, disinfecting and

> protective products. To shorten a longer story, he subsequently

> returned to the home, used a Zinsser disinfectant and then sprayed

> clear PermaGuard on every square inch of the framing, poly vapor

> retarder, and OSB roof decking (plus the DWV piping, fireplace flue,

> etc.). BTW, PermaGuard contains small quantities of chlorothalonil (an

> EPA-registered pesticide), but the coating itself is not EPA

> registered. When I asked why he coated every square inch of every

> surface in the attic (even those that had not been water damaged) the

> remediator responded that he was instructed to do so during training

> at the IICRC. He named the specific instructors, and they are familiar

> persons within the IICRC. Their names are not of critical importance

> in this inquiry. Here are my questions -- I'd appreciate your

> feedback. 1. Has anyone else been instructed to use a coating in this

> way by the IICRC or by others? If so, what thought process was used or

> justification provided? 2. Does anyone have any experience in using

> this coating over the Anabec " Anashield " ? Could there be a chemical

> compatibility concern? Could the " organosilane " (Anashield) inhibit or

> slow curing of the PermaGuard (a " latex acrylic resin interior

> sealer " )? Replies either on this list or privately (wab -at-

> michaelsengineering .com) are welcome. TIA. Wane

> <><><><><><><><><><><> Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH Division Manager,

> Indoor Air Quality MICHAELS ENGINEERING " Real Professionals. Real

> Solutions. " 811 Monitor Street, Suite 100 PO Box 2377 La Crosse,

> Wisconsin 54602 Phone , ext. 484 Cell Fax

> mailto:wab@michaels engineering. com On the web at:

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

>

>

[Guest guest]

All,

To my knowledge, the EPA has no longer approved

nor promoted bleach for use on organic building materials. I understand the use

of bleach was only tested and approved for use on stainless steel tables.

As for the VOC’s, we don’t know

what the VOC will be due to various building materials and their matrix. If I

remember correctly, a Canadian study was done a year or two ago (by now) and the

study found that the VOC’s that were produced were linked to a

carcinogen. The carcinogen was linked to breast cancer in woman.

If I also remember correctly, prior to the

Canadian study, the EPA use to recommend a 10% bleach solution for mold

clean-up. Shortly thereafter most all sites removed the bleach recommendation

for clean-up associated with porous materials.

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Larkin

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006

8:08 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Coatings

and remediator instruction at IICRC?

WOW, ! When

did bleach get an EPA registration for use during mold

remediation? What does the manufacturer recommend as a mixing factor

for use during a mold project? Or better yet, what is on the product

labeling?

And strong

bleach, what about the new VOC's you are introducing?

Larkin, CRMI, WRT

ERS Services

elires

I

find that it is not the circumstances in which we are placed, but the spirit in

which we face them, that constitutes our comfort.

- T. King

That's what learning is, after all; not whether we lose the game, but

how we lose and how we've changed because of it and what we take away from it

that we never had before, to apply to other games. Losing, in a curious way, is

winning.- Bach from " The Bridge Across Forever "

Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

Group:

I'm

currently working on a project that involved a fairly modest water loss in the

attic of a single family residence. The source was a kinked condensate

line from the forced-air A/C unit located in the attic (space heat is via a

combination of radiant floor and hot water fin-tube convectors).

A

limited area of the blown-in cellulose insulation and adjoining framing was

wet; fungal growth was visible on the trusses. The amount of water

released was not enough to flow through the poly vapor retarder and did not

significantly damage the underlying gyp-board ceiling.

The

remediation contractor removed all of the insulation from the entire ~1200 sq

ft attic, used ice blasting to remove fungal materials from the affected

framing elements, then initially

used Anabec cleaning, disinfecting and protective products. To shorten a

longer story, he subsequently

returned to the home, used a Zinsser disinfectant and then sprayed clear

PermaGuard on every square inch of the framing, poly vapor retarder, and OSB

roof decking (plus the DWV piping, fireplace flue, etc.). BTW,

PermaGuard contains small quantities of chlorothalonil (an EPA-registered

pesticide), but the coating itself is not EPA registered.

When

I asked why he coated every square inch of every surface in the attic (even

those that had not been water damaged) the remediator responded that he was

instructed to do so during training at the IICRC. He named the specific

instructors, and they are familiar persons within the IICRC. Their names

are not of critical importance in this inquiry.

Here

are my questions -- I'd appreciate your feedback.

1.

Has anyone else been instructed to use a coating in this way by the IICRC or by

others? If so, what thought process was used or justification

provided?

2.

Does anyone have any experience in using this coating over the Anabec

" Anashield " ? Could there be a chemical compatibility

concern? Could the " organosilane " (Anashield) inhibit or slow

curing of the PermaGuard (a " latex acrylic resin interior

sealer " )?

Replies

either on this list or privately (wab -at- michaelsengineering .com) are

welcome.

TIA.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane

A. Baker, P.E., CIH

Division

Manager, Indoor Air Quality

MICHAELS

ENGINEERING

" Real Professionals. Real Solutions. "

811 Monitor Street, Suite

100

PO Box

2377

La Crosse,

Wisconsin 54602

Phone

, ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wab@michaels

engineering. com

On the

web at: http://www.michaels engineering. com

" To

love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more

fun? "

-

Graham

NOTICE:

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information. Use and

further disclosure of the information by the recipient must be consistent with

applicable laws, regulations and agreements. If you received this e-mail in

error, please notify the sender; delete the e-mail; and do not use, disclose or

store the information it contains.

Everyone is raving

about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

Everyone is raving about the

all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

[Guest guest]

1.

Has anyone else been instructed to use a coating in this way by the IICRC or by

others? If so, what thought process was used or justification

provided?

Never

had IICRC instruction

2.

Does anyone have any experience in using this coating over the Anabec

" Anashield " ? Could there be a chemical compatibility

concern? Could the " organosilane " (Anashield) inhibit or slow

curing of the PermaGuard (a " latex acrylic resin interior

sealer " )?

a) No.

Possibly.

I would

worry about a change in vapor perm of the coated areas.

I would

worry about a fire rating change in any materials covered, especially wiring.

I would

worry about pealing given the temperature extremes.

.......................................................................

" Tony " Havics,

CHMM, CIH, PE

pH2, LLC

PO Box 34140

Indianapolis, IN 46234

off

fax

cell

90% of Risk Management is knowing where to

place the decimal point...any consultant can give you the other 10%(SM)

This message is from pH2. This message and

any attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information, and

are intended only for the individual or entity identified above as the

addressee. If you are not the addressee, or if this message has been addressed

to you in error, you are not authorized to read, copy, or distribute this

message and any attachments, and we ask that you please delete this message and

attachments (including all copies) and notify the sender by return e-mail or by

phone at . Delivery of this message and any attachments to any

person other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive

confidentiality or a privilege. All personal messages express views only of the

sender, which are not to be attributed to pH2 and may not be copied or

distributed without this statement.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Wane A. Baker

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006

2:41 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Coatings and

remediator instruction at IICRC?

Group:

I'm

currently working on a project that involved a fairly modest water loss in the

attic of a single family residence. The source was a kinked condensate

line from the forced-air A/C unit located in the attic (space heat is via a

combination of radiant floor and hot water fin-tube convectors).

A

limited area of the blown-in cellulose insulation and adjoining framing was wet;

fungal growth was visible on the trusses. The amount of water released

was not enough to flow through the poly vapor retarder and did not

significantly damage the underlying gyp-board ceiling.

The

remediation contractor removed all of the insulation from the entire ~1200 sq

ft attic, used ice blasting to remove fungal materials from the affected

framing elements, then initially

used Anabec cleaning, disinfecting and protective products. To shorten a

longer story, he subsequently

returned to the home, used a Zinsser disinfectant and then sprayed clear

PermaGuard on every square inch of the framing, poly vapor retarder, and OSB

roof decking (plus the DWV piping, fireplace flue, etc.). BTW,

PermaGuard contains small quantities of chlorothalonil (an EPA-registered

pesticide), but the coating itself is not EPA registered.

When

I asked why he coated every square inch of every surface in the attic (even

those that had not been water damaged) the remediator responded that he was

instructed to do so during training at the IICRC. He named the specific

instructors, and they are familiar persons within the IICRC. Their names

are not of critical importance in this inquiry.

Here

are my questions -- I'd appreciate your feedback.

1.

Has anyone else been instructed to use a coating in this way by the IICRC or by

others? If so, what thought process was used or justification

provided?

2.

Does anyone have any experience in using this coating over the Anabec

" Anashield " ? Could there be a chemical compatibility

concern? Could the " organosilane " (Anashield) inhibit or slow

curing of the PermaGuard (a " latex acrylic resin interior

sealer " )?

Replies

either on this list or privately (wab -at- michaelsengineering.com) are

welcome.

TIA.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane

A. Baker, P.E., CIH

Division

Manager, Indoor Air Quality

MICHAELS

ENGINEERING

" Real Professionals. Real Solutions. "

811 Monitor Street, Suite

100

PO Box

2377

La Crosse,

Wisconsin 54602

Phone

, ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wab@...

On the

web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com

" To

love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more

fun? "

-

Graham

NOTICE:

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information. Use and

further disclosure of the information by the recipient must be consistent with

applicable laws, regulations and agreements. If you received this e-mail in

error, please notify the sender; delete the e-mail; and do not use, disclose or

store the information it contains.

[Guest guest]

:

You stated:  “Strong

bleach removes mold. It does not just kill it like Microban, MDF-500 etc.”

1.         No . 

Mechanical forces (solid, liquid, etc.) remove mold.  Everything else just

changes the structure.  And if it has penetrated wood or porous material even

that may not be the case.  Try some bleach on wood that has basidio or

ascomycete hyphae penetrating through cell walls (fibers, ray cells, whatever) –

then take a few photomicrgraphs.

2.         Many anti-microbials do not “kill”, they just

inhibit growth. 

3.         No agent that I know of is 100% effective [perhaps we could

tax the poor organisms].  ,

I thought the IICRC 500 or 520 define some of the terms (disinfection, sterilization). 

Perhaps you should review those as well.

Tony

.......................................................................

" Tony " Havics,

CHMM, CIH, PE

pH2, LLC

PO Box 34140

Indianapolis, IN 46234

off

fax

cell

90% of Risk Management is knowing where to

place the decimal point...any consultant can give you the other 10%(SM)

This message is from pH2. This message and

any attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information, and

are intended only for the individual or entity identified above as the

addressee. If you are not the addressee, or if this message has been addressed

to you in error, you are not authorized to read, copy, or distribute this

message and any attachments, and we ask that you please delete this message and

attachments (including all copies) and notify the sender by return e-mail or by

phone at . Delivery of this message and any attachments to any

person other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive

confidentiality or a privilege. All personal messages express views only of the

sender, which are not to be attributed to pH2 and may not be copied or

distributed without this statement.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of gary rosen

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006

6:35 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Coatings

and remediator instruction at IICRC?

Bob,

If the client does not like the protocol then they won't hire that

person ... unless of course the cost is much less. Then they probably

will hire them anyway.

When remediating a large attic space for example ... bleach followed by

encapsulation can reduce the cost of remediation by a huge amount. Strong

bleach removes mold. It does not just kill it like Microban, MDF-500 etc.

When remediating a real estate transaction, a picture of the remediated

wall with all the studs completely white because they are covered with white

encapsulant has always resulted in a happy buyer (in my experience.)

Buyers will never understand or trust lab tests but seeing is believing.

Rosen

Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

Group:

I'm

currently working on a project that involved a fairly modest water loss in the

attic of a single family residence. The source was a kinked condensate

line from the forced-air A/C unit located in the attic (space heat is via a

combination of radiant floor and hot water fin-tube convectors).

A

limited area of the blown-in cellulose insulation and adjoining framing was

wet; fungal growth was visible on the trusses. The amount of water

released was not enough to flow through the poly vapor retarder and did not

significantly damage the underlying gyp-board ceiling.

The

remediation contractor removed all of the insulation from the entire ~1200 sq

ft attic, used ice blasting to remove fungal materials from the affected

framing elements, then initially

used Anabec cleaning, disinfecting and protective products. To shorten a

longer story, he subsequently

returned to the home, used a Zinsser disinfectant and then sprayed clear

PermaGuard on every square inch of the framing, poly vapor retarder, and OSB

roof decking (plus the DWV piping, fireplace flue, etc.). BTW,

PermaGuard contains small quantities of chlorothalonil (an EPA-registered

pesticide), but the coating itself is not EPA registered.

When

I asked why he coated every square inch of every surface in the attic (even

those that had not been water damaged) the remediator responded that he was

instructed to do so during training at the IICRC. He named the specific

instructors, and they are familiar persons within the IICRC. Their names

are not of critical importance in this inquiry.

Here

are my questions -- I'd appreciate your feedback.

1.

Has anyone else been instructed to use a coating in this way by the IICRC or by

others? If so, what thought process was used or justification

provided?

2.

Does anyone have any experience in using this coating over the Anabec

" Anashield " ? Could there be a chemical compatibility

concern? Could the " organosilane " (Anashield) inhibit or slow

curing of the PermaGuard (a " latex acrylic resin interior

sealer " )?

Replies

either on this list or privately (wab -at- michaelsengineering .com) are

welcome.

TIA.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane

A. Baker, P.E., CIH

Division

Manager, Indoor Air Quality

MICHAELS

ENGINEERING

" Real Professionals. Real Solutions. "

811 Monitor Street, Suite

100

PO Box

2377

La Crosse,

Wisconsin 54602

Phone

, ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wab@michaels

engineering. com

On the

web at: http://www.michaels engineering. com

" To

love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more

fun? "

-

Graham

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[Guest guest]

1. Has anyone else been instructed to use a coating in this way by the IICRC or by others? If so, what thought process was used or justification provided? [] $$$$$$$$$$$$ more square feet the more he could justify to charge????? What other reason could there be?

2. Does anyone have any experience in using this coating over the Anabec "Anashield"? Wane, one question to ask is why would you put a product over the antimicrobial, that would isolate the Antimicrobial rendering it ineffective, or it least it seems that way to me.. Another question I would ask, is the coating a vapor barrier, I'd be more worried about stopping summer driven moisture through the roof membrane and affecting the roofing and deck. <but up there in the frozen tundra where you live Wane, that might not be a problem> Could there be a chemical compatibility concern? Could the "organosilane" (Anashield) inhibit or slow curing of the PermaGuard (a "latex acrylic resin interior sealer")?

This might be a good question to send to the IICRC and see if this is their (tongue in cheek) latest protocol coming out is S520. Actually that's very unfair of me, as most of the people I know that affiliate with the IICRC would not use this practice. Maybe the IICRC needs to find out which of their approved instructors is the dealer for those products to identify where they got their training!

Our experience is that remediators spraying coatings is a their way to say "I can't I can't clean it good enough to pass clearance so I'll lock it down". There is a time and a place for coatings but not one over another, over another.... and certainly not wholesale use in today's chemically sensitive world. Wane ask them if they enjoyed doing their first Job!

Ron

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Wane A. BakerSent: Monday, December 11, 2006 2:41 PMTo: iequality Subject: Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

Group:

I'm currently working on a project that involved a fairly modest water loss in the attic of a single family residence. The source was a kinked condensate line from the forced-air A/C unit located in the attic (space heat is via a combination of radiant floor and hot water fin-tube convectors).

A limited area of the blown-in cellulose insulation and adjoining framing was wet; fungal growth was visible on the trusses. The amount of water released was not enough to flow through the poly vapor retarder and did not significantly damage the underlying gyp-board ceiling.

The remediation contractor removed all of the insulation from the entire ~1200 sq ft attic, used ice blasting to remove fungal materials from the affected framing elements, then initially used Anabec cleaning, disinfecting and protective products. To shorten a longer story, he subsequently returned to the home, used a Zinsser disinfectant and then sprayed clear PermaGuard on every square inch of the framing, poly vapor retarder, and OSB roof decking (plus the DWV piping, fireplace flue, etc.). BTW, PermaGuard contains small quantities of chlorothalonil (an EPA-registered pesticide), but the coating itself is not EPA registered.

When I asked why he coated every square inch of every surface in the attic (even those that had not been water damaged) the remediator responded that he was instructed to do so during training at the IICRC. He named the specific instructors, and they are familiar persons within the IICRC. Their names are not of critical importance in this inquiry.

Here are my questions -- I'd appreciate your feedback.

1. Has anyone else been instructed to use a coating in this way by the IICRC or by others? If so, what thought process was used or justification provided?

2. Does anyone have any experience in using this coating over the Anabec "Anashield"? Could there be a chemical compatibility concern? Could the "organosilane" (Anashield) inhibit or slow curing of the PermaGuard (a "latex acrylic resin interior sealer")?

Replies either on this list or privately (wab -at- michaelsengineering.com) are welcome.

TIA.

Wane <><><><><><><><><><><>Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIHDivision Manager, Indoor Air QualityMICHAELS ENGINEERING"Real Professionals. Real Solutions."811 Monitor Street, Suite 100PO Box 2377La Crosse, Wisconsin 54602 Phone , ext. 484Cell Fax mailto:wabmichaelsengineeringOn the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com "To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more fun?"- Graham NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information. Use and further disclosure of the information by the recipient must be consistent with applicable laws, regulations and agreements. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; delete the e-mail; and do not use, disclose or store the information it contains.

[Guest guest]

It is to be used on NON-POROUS surfaces. IT is also to be used on

PREVIOUSLY CLEANED NON-POROUS surfaces.

L.

President

Indoor Environmental Management, Inc.

10640 Deme Drive

Suite J

Indianapolis, IN 46236

Fax

Re: Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

Did you ever use Tilex?  50% bleach.  For use on mold. Works great. 

Check the label and MSDS.

http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/products/msds/index.html

 

Rosen

Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

Group:

I'm currently working on a project that involved a fairly modest water

loss in the attic of a single family residence.  The source was a

kinked condensate line from the forced-air A/C unit located in the

attic (space heat is via a combination of radiant floor and hot water

fin-tube convectors). 

A limited area of the blown-in cellulose insulation and adjoining

framing was wet; fungal growth was visible on the trusses.  The amount

of water released was not enough to flow through the poly vapor

retarder and did not significantly damage the underlying gyp-board

ceiling.

The remediation contractor removed all of the insulation from the

entire ~1200 sq ft attic, used ice blasting to remove fungal materials

from the affected framing elements, then initially used Anabec

cleaning, disinfecting and protective products.  To shorten a longer

story, he subsequently returned to the home, used a Zinsser

disinfectant and then sprayed clear PermaGuard on every square inch of

the framing, poly vapor retarder, and OSB roof decking (plus the DWV

piping, fireplace flue, etc.).   BTW, PermaGuard contains small

quantities of chlorothalonil (an EPA-registered pesticide), but the

coating itself is not EPA registered. 

When I asked why he coated every square inch of every surface in the

attic (even those that had not been water damaged) the remediator

responded that he was instructed to do so during training at the

IICRC.  He named the specific instructors, and they are familiar

persons within the IICRC.  Their names are not of critical importance

in this inquiry. 

Here are my questions -- I'd appreciate your feedback. 

1.  Has anyone else been instructed to use a coating in this way by the

IICRC or by others?  If so, what thought process was used or

justification provided? 

2.  Does anyone have any experience in using this coating over the

Anabec " Anashield " ?   Could there be a chemical compatibility concern? 

Could the " organosilane " (Anashield) inhibit or slow curing of the

PermaGuard (a " latex acrylic resin interior sealer " )? 

Replies either on this list or privately (wab -at- michaelsengineering

..com) are welcome. 

TIA.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH

Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality

MICHAELS ENGINEERING

" Real Professionals. Real Solutions. "

811 Monitor Street, Suite 100

PO Box 2377

La Crosse, Wisconsin 54602

Phone , ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wab@michaels engineering. com

On the web at: http://www.michaels engineering. com

" To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be

more fun? "

- Graham

NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential

information. Use and further disclosure of the information by the

recipient must be consistent with applicable laws, regulations and

agreements. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the

sender; delete the e-mail; and do not use, disclose or store the

information it contains.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Carl,

That’s a good one

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Carl E. Grimes

Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006

8:37 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Coatings

and remediator instruction at IICRC?

,

How does one separate the " seeing is believing " from the " seeing

is

deceiving? "

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

>

> Bob,

>

> If the client does not like the protocol then they won't hire that

> person ... unless of course the cost is much less. Then they probably

> will hire them anyway.

>

> When remediating a large attic space for example ... bleach followed

> by encapsulation can reduce the cost of remediation by a huge amount.

> Strong bleach removes mold. It does not just kill it like Microban,

> MDF-500 etc.

>

> When remediating a real estate transaction, a picture of the

> remediated wall with all the studs completely white because they are

> covered with white encapsulant has always resulted in a happy buyer

> (in my experience.) Buyers will never understand or trust lab tests

> but seeing is believing.

>

> Rosen

>

> Coatings and remediator instruction at IICRC?

> Group: I'm currently working on a project that involved a fairly

> modest water loss in the attic of a single family residence. The

> source was a kinked condensate line from the forced-air A/C unit

> located in the attic (space heat is via a combination of radiant floor

> and hot water fin-tube convectors). A limited area of the blown-in

> cellulose insulation and adjoining framing was wet; fungal growth was

> visible on the trusses. The amount of water released was not enough to

> flow through the poly vapor retarder and did not significantly damage

> the underlying gyp- board ceiling. The remediation contractor removed

> all of the insulation from the entire ~1200 sq ft attic, used ice

> blasting to remove fungal materials from the affected framing

> elements, then initially used Anabec cleaning, disinfecting and

> protective products. To shorten a longer story, he subsequently

> returned to the home, used a Zinsser disinfectant and then sprayed

> clear PermaGuard on every square inch of the framing, poly vapor

> retarder, and OSB roof decking (plus the DWV piping, fireplace flue,

> etc.). BTW, PermaGuard contains small quantities of chlorothalonil (an

> EPA-registered pesticide), but the coating itself is not EPA

> registered. When I asked why he coated every square inch of every

> surface in the attic (even those that had not been water damaged) the

> remediator responded that he was instructed to do so during training

> at the IICRC. He named the specific instructors, and they are familiar

> persons within the IICRC. Their names are not of critical importance

> in this inquiry. Here are my questions -- I'd appreciate your

> feedback. 1. Has anyone else been instructed to use a coating in this

> way by the IICRC or by others? If so, what thought process was used or

> justification provided? 2. Does anyone have any experience in using

> this coating over the Anabec " Anashield " ? Could there be a

chemical

> compatibility concern? Could the " organosilane " (Anashield)

inhibit or

> slow curing of the PermaGuard (a " latex acrylic resin interior

> sealer " )? Replies either on this list or privately (wab -at-

> michaelsengineering .com) are welcome. TIA. Wane

> <><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH Division Manager,

> Indoor Air Quality MICHAELS ENGINEERING " Real Professionals. Real

> Solutions. " 811 Monitor

Street, Suite 100 PO Box 2377 La Crosse,

> Wisconsin

54602 Phone , ext. 484 Cell Fax

> mailto:wab@michaels engineering. com On the web at:

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

>

>