Re: Re: Cow sharing as a sham

December 31, 2005

Who carries the insurance for that?

Actually... not too many people do........ Insurance policies have this real small print that gives insurance companies an out unless you buy a specific natural disaster insurance rider, you aren't covered. So many of our fellow farmers in the Gulf Region have found that out after Katrina and Rita.

le

January 1, 2006

Unfortunately, livestock insurance is not readily available at a reasonable

cost,, and there are so many outs that getting a payout is not reality. You

can purchase lightening insurance, and it is not bad on administrative, but

you would have to loose about 5% per year of your herd for it to make sense,

from what I have seen. I lost a weaned calf this year to lightening, but I

have not found it a common enough problem in my area to make it worthwhile.

Real estate if different. Mortgages REQUIRE insurance coverage. However,

many homes/time shares/condos are NOT insured against " acts of God " and

especially flood insurance. A couple of years ago just north of me Madison

Co. experienced a 500 year flood...and about no one had flood insurance, so

were not covered. Pretty bummer for those folks who still had to pay their

mortgages after their homes were ruined.

kathryn russell

www.MajestyFarm.com

" The one the tyrants fear is the man who

knows his rights and is prepared to stand up for them. "

andr Solzhenitsyn

Re: Cow sharing as a sham

Well, hmmm....do people ever buy insurance for their time shares in condos?

I mean what

if the condo burns down or gets blown away in a hurricane? Who carries the

insurance for

that?

D.

>

> You make some good points. For example, I have been asked " what happens if

> the cow dies? "

>

> Well, I say, we bury her..

>

> I was asked that by a state official also and she kind of blubbered:-) But

> that is an issue of ownership. If shareowners wish to purchase insurance,

> they are welcome to try, but I am not interested in dealing w/ that issue.

>

> A share owner can, at any time, sell their share. It is not, however, a

> responsibility of the operator to arrange such.

>

> Since cows are a depreciating commodity, the share values are also

> depreciating in my contract.

>

> Things to think about..

>

> kathryn russell

>

> www.MajestyFarm.com <http://www.majestyfarm.com/>

>

> " The one the tyrants fear is the man who

>

> knows his rights and is prepared to stand up for them. "

>

> andr

> <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & q=andr+Solzhenitsyn+ & spell=1>

> Solzhenitsyn

>

> _____

>

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

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January 1, 2006

If my cow were to die (God Forbid), and I got a new cow, the shareholders would have to buy a share of the new cow as my certificate says that the share they have puchased is for the "Milking Life of the Cow." I also have a very inexpensive insurance policy that covers just about everything except natural causes, including loading and unloading, being shot, hit by lightening, tornados, accidential poisoning, etc., etc. It's attached to my car insurance rather than my homeowners, so people can check into something like that. I think it's only about $25 a year and covers 5 cows on the property.

K.C.

RE: Re: Cow sharing as a sham

You make some good points. For example, I have been asked “what happens if the cow dies?”

Well, I say, we bury her….

I was asked that by a state official also and she kind of blubberedJ But that is an issue of ownership. If shareowners wish to purchase insurance, they are welcome to try, but I am not interested in dealing w/ that issue.

A share owner can, at any time, sell their share. It is not, however, a responsibility of the operator to arrange such.

Since cows are a depreciating commodity, the share values are also depreciating in my contract.

Things to think about….

kathryn russell

www.MajestyFarm.com

"The one the tyrants fear is the man who

knows his rights and is prepared to stand up for them."

andr Solzhenitsyn

From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of Gordon S. Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 6:28 PMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: Cow sharing as a sham

Excellent points.

One more crucial test : what kind of an exit strategem is there for a partner and/or the farmer to disengage in cases when one wants out, or the Manager wants to get an awkward shareholder off his back ?

UN learned as I am in law, I believe that the clincher is whether the partners participate in both risk and reward.

That's the test used in the [ iniquitous ] federal Income Tax Act up here. The Supreme Court of Canada just came down lately with a landmark case pronouncing that the onus is on Canada Revenue Agency to prove that any given transaction is a "sham". Whereas up to now, a poor suffering taxserf had to justify hisself, whenever the racketeers raised an eyebrow.

NOT that we want to get anywhere near the slough of despond which the income tax racket is!

________________>> I am getting pretty annoyed that so many people automatically look as cow> (or goat) shares as a "sham" to avoid having trouble selling milk. Cow and> Goat share operators have their own reasons and business plans, but as a> share operator I believe we shortchange ourselves and create ill attitudes> by saying the old "well of course it is to circumvent raw milk laws" Not> necessarily. There are numerous reasons and benefits to operate a share> program, both for the operator and the share owner.> > By falling for the govt's "sham" theory, people are denying the validity of> basic contract law.> > Are time shares just a "sham" to "pretend" you own a vacation home?> Certainly not! They are legal, contractual ownerships of a certain> percentage (measured in time used) of a home that people neither want to> have complete ownership and responsibility for, nor can afford, both> time-wise and dollar-wise.> > > > For the farmer, operating a share program means:> > > > Less capital investment (the shareowners pay for much of the cow/goat)> > Ability to plan based upon shareowner commitments> > Regular income from maintenance/boarding fees> > Relationship building between the farming culture and non farmers> > The farmer does not have to be concerned about whether or not his market> will fluctuate weekly, daily or monthly. He can plan the inventory for> freshness, and more adequately and efficiently have product delivered.> > > > For the Share owner:> > > > An assurance of regular availability of product, with No worries about none> in the store, or getting almost outdated stock.> > > > A stake in the production methodology of the product produces by his animal.> > > > An opportunity to develop an understanding of the mechanisms of farming> while being a responsible partner.> > Relationship building between the farming culture and non farmers.> > > > All in all, I see a good number of benefits to the share concept. I have 2> families that own a cow all themselves! They are large families, suburban,> like the benefits of raw dairy, love the farm visits, but don't want the> responsibility of a cow of their own! Other share owners simply are in no> position to have an animal, but love the opportunity to have ownership in> part.> > > > I am pleased with how my share operation has allowed me to enjoy my farming,> with a steady income, and the opportunity to educate my shareowners about> raw dairy and farm life. I am totally uninterested in retail sales, this> works much better for me, and my shareowners, for the most part are happy> with it also.> > > > > > Please, guys DO NOT presume that share operations are simply a way to get> by, when in actuality they are a legitimate and beneficial business model.> So say otherwise is to play right into the hands of the nay sayers and do> many share operations a great disservice.> > > > kathryn russell> > www.MajestyFarm.com <http://www.majestyfarm.com/> > > > > "The one the tyrants fear is the man who > > knows his rights and is prepared to stand up for them." > > andr> <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & q=andr+Solzhenitsyn+ & spell=1>> Solzhenitsyn>

January 1, 2006

Not true. Check with Farm Bureau. The policy I have does include natural disasters without the small print. Of course, I'm not in an area that has many, so maybe that's why it's covered. You can always get a rider on the policy to override the small print. All it takes is a little more money (LOL).

K.C.

Re: Re: Cow sharing as a sham

Who carries the insurance for that?

Actually... not too many people do........ Insurance policies have this real small print that gives insurance companies an out unless you buy a specific natural disaster insurance rider, you aren't covered. So many of our fellow farmers in the Gulf Region have found that out after Katrina and Rita.

le

January 1, 2006

, after I lost my first Shorthorn due to a farmer accidently spraying

poison in her face, I went to my insurance company and asked about insurance

for my cow(s). I can't speak to other insurance companies, but Farm Bureau

does have additional coverage for not much at all.

K.C.

Re: Cow sharing as a sham

Well, hmmm....do people ever buy insurance for their time shares in condos?

I mean what

if the condo burns down or gets blown away in a hurricane? Who carries the

insurance for

that?

D.

>

> You make some good points. For example, I have been asked " what happens if

> the cow dies? "

>

> Well, I say, we bury her..

>

> I was asked that by a state official also and she kind of blubbered:-) But

> that is an issue of ownership. If shareowners wish to purchase insurance,

> they are welcome to try, but I am not interested in dealing w/ that issue.

>

> A share owner can, at any time, sell their share. It is not, however, a

> responsibility of the operator to arrange such.

>

> Since cows are a depreciating commodity, the share values are also

> depreciating in my contract.

>

> Things to think about..

>

> kathryn russell

>

> www.MajestyFarm.com <http://www.majestyfarm.com/>

>

> " The one the tyrants fear is the man who

>

> knows his rights and is prepared to stand up for them. "

>

> andr

> <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & q=andr+Solzhenitsyn+ & spell=1>

> Solzhenitsyn

>

> _____

>

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

Archive search: http://onibasu.com

January 1, 2006

Virginia Farm Bureau is actually really sorry for basic " farmer stuff " now.

Us members are pitching fits about it, but are having trouble. The head

honchos decided to court the suburban business, so now more farm bureau

members are non-farmers than farmers, and us farmers are having to push hard

just to keep from being nudged out.

For example, my farm truck got stolen, w/ farm stuff in it, but despite

having a farm owners policy I find that since I had not itemized the t-post

driver, or my record books, or the hand tools they were not covered. My

" personal " stuff was covered, due to the policies being written w/

suburbanites in mind now. Everything " :farm related " is now a total add on.

kathryn russell

www.MajestyFarm.com

" The one the tyrants fear is the man who

knows his rights and is prepared to stand up for them. "

andr Solzhenitsyn

Re: Re: Cow sharing as a sham

, after I lost my first Shorthorn due to a farmer accidently spraying

poison in her face, I went to my insurance company and asked about insurance

for my cow(s). I can't speak to other insurance companies, but Farm Bureau

does have additional coverage for not much at all.

K.C.

Re: Cow sharing as a sham

Well, hmmm....do people ever buy insurance for their time shares in condos?

I mean what

if the condo burns down or gets blown away in a hurricane? Who carries the

insurance for

that?

D.

>

> You make some good points. For example, I have been asked " what happens if

> the cow dies? "

>

> Well, I say, we bury her..

>

> I was asked that by a state official also and she kind of blubbered:-) But

> that is an issue of ownership. If shareowners wish to purchase insurance,

> they are welcome to try, but I am not interested in dealing w/ that issue.

>

> A share owner can, at any time, sell their share. It is not, however, a

> responsibility of the operator to arrange such.

>

> Since cows are a depreciating commodity, the share values are also

> depreciating in my contract.

>

> Things to think about..

>

> kathryn russell

>

> www.MajestyFarm.com <http://www.majestyfarm.com/>

>

> " The one the tyrants fear is the man who

>

> knows his rights and is prepared to stand up for them. "

>

> andr

> <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & q=andr+Solzhenitsyn+ & spell=1>

> Solzhenitsyn

>

> _____

>

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

Archive search: http://onibasu.com

January 1, 2006

K.C.

I like the way that your shareholders are buying shares in an actual cow. It makes your contract less assailable by anyone who would claim that the share doesn't represent true ownership.

I apologize if you've told use this before, but do you have a set number of shares per animal? Do you keep for yourself 51% or greater of those shares for yourself? How are vet bills distributed. Do you do a per gallon charge or a monthly charge?

-----Original Message-----From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of TinybabeSent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 10:52 AMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: Re: Cow sharing as a sham

If my cow were to die (God Forbid), and I got a new cow, the shareholders would have to buy a share of the new cow as my certificate says that the share they have puchased is for the "Milking Life of the Cow." I also have a very inexpensive insurance policy that covers just about everything except natural causes, including loading and unloading, being shot, hit by lightening, tornados, accidential poisoning, etc., etc. It's attached to my car insurance rather than my homeowners, so people can check into something like that. I think it's only about $25 a year and covers 5 cows on the property.

K.C.

January 1, 2006

Wow, that's too bad. But, if you go to them and say " Hey, they offer this

policy in ID, why isn't it offered here? " Wouldn't they have to concede

because they HAVE to offer what other Farm Bureaus offer? I don't know how

it works, but I would think that a company that is national, has to offer

what their other offices offer, even if they are catering to the suburban

classes. I have what is known as a Country Squire policy. It's kind of

like a farm type policy, but a little more broad. I think the farmers have

riders and other forms of insurance for their equipment, etc. and of course

crop insurance is separate. You might want to get the other farmers together

and make some noise. My vehicle is separate, but as you know, the more you

insure with them, the bigger the discount.

K.C.

Re: Cow sharing as a sham

Well, hmmm....do people ever buy insurance for their time shares in condos?

I mean what

if the condo burns down or gets blown away in a hurricane? Who carries the

insurance for

that?

D.

>

> You make some good points. For example, I have been asked " what happens if

> the cow dies? "

>

> Well, I say, we bury her..

>

> I was asked that by a state official also and she kind of blubbered:-) But

> that is an issue of ownership. If shareowners wish to purchase insurance,

> they are welcome to try, but I am not interested in dealing w/ that issue.

>

> A share owner can, at any time, sell their share. It is not, however, a

> responsibility of the operator to arrange such.

>

> Since cows are a depreciating commodity, the share values are also

> depreciating in my contract.

>

> Things to think about..

>

> kathryn russell

>

> www.MajestyFarm.com <http://www.majestyfarm.com/>

>

> " The one the tyrants fear is the man who

>

> knows his rights and is prepared to stand up for them. "

>

> andr

> <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & q=andr+Solzhenitsyn+ & spell=1>

> Solzhenitsyn

>

> _____

>

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

Archive search: http://onibasu.com

January 1, 2006

I only have about 10 shareholders. At $25 per share, that's $250 worth of the cow. The Miniature Jersey is worth about $3,000 at 5 years of age and was purchased for $2,000. So, yes, I have more then 51% ownership.

I charge $3/gallon for MY LABOR. I NEVER sell milk. That's the wording that keeps me out of trouble (LOL).

I pay for my vet bills and everything else. Since I haven't paid more then $200 over the 5 years I've had her, I think it's a pretty good deal.

K.C.

RE: Re: Cow sharing as a sham

K.C.

I like the way that your shareholders are buying shares in an actual cow. It makes your contract less assailable by anyone who would claim that the share doesn't represent true ownership.

I apologize if you've told use this before, but do you have a set number of shares per animal? Do you keep for yourself 51% or greater of those shares for yourself? How are vet bills distributed. Do you do a per gallon charge or a monthly charge?

-----Original Message-----From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of TinybabeSent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 10:52 AMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: Re: Cow sharing as a sham

If my cow were to die (God Forbid), and I got a new cow, the shareholders would have to buy a share of the new cow as my certificate says that the share they have puchased is for the "Milking Life of the Cow." I also have a very inexpensive insurance policy that covers just about everything except natural causes, including loading and unloading, being shot, hit by lightening, tornados, accidential poisoning, etc., etc. It's attached to my car insurance rather than my homeowners, so people can check into something like that. I think it's only about $25 a year and covers 5 cows on the property.

K.C.

January 1, 2006

RE that great Joke, Farm Bureau: They have sided with

Monsanto in cases where farmers were accused of

planting " protected, Patented " GMO Seed. Why? Because

Monsanto gives college scholarships to Farm Bureau

members and those seem to go to children of the local

boards of directors with amazing regularity. THose

kids must be soooo smart.

Recently, one of my neighbors had his 4-wheeler

stolen. He uses it to go to the garden, deer hunt and

ride his grand children around the fields in a little

wagon that he pulls. IT was parked under the shed at

the house, beside his lawn mower, which was also

stolen, not under the farm shed. HE was asked if he

ever used it for going to the chicken house or to

check fences etc. " Of course I might, but I usually

take the old pickup, because all the tools etc. are in

it. " But because he " might " take it to the chicken

house, it was considered farm and not covered. The

lawn mower was.

What a joke.

Bill Dunlap

__________________________________________

Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.

Just $16.99/mo. or less.

dsl.yahoo.com

January 1, 2006

I NEVER said I agree with their politics. In fact I hate them for that.

However, when you need insurance and don't want to pay the bigger companies

their BIGGER prices, Farm Bureau is there. Plus, I checked with the other

companies (THEY ARE ALL CROOKS)and Farm Bureau was the only one with the

policy on the cows.

K.C.

RE: Re: Cow sharing as a sham

> RE that great Joke, Farm Bureau: They have sided with

> Monsanto in cases where farmers were accused of

> planting " protected, Patented " GMO Seed. Why? Because

> Monsanto gives college scholarships to Farm Bureau

> members and those seem to go to children of the local

> boards of directors with amazing regularity. THose

> kids must be soooo smart.

> Recently, one of my neighbors had his 4-wheeler

> stolen. He uses it to go to the garden, deer hunt and

> ride his grand children around the fields in a little

> wagon that he pulls. IT was parked under the shed at

> the house, beside his lawn mower, which was also

> stolen, not under the farm shed. HE was asked if he

> ever used it for going to the chicken house or to

> check fences etc. " Of course I might, but I usually

> take the old pickup, because all the tools etc. are in

> it. " But because he " might " take it to the chicken

> house, it was considered farm and not covered. The

> lawn mower was.

> What a joke.

> Bill Dunlap

>

> __________________________________________

> Yahoo! DSL - Something to write home about.

> Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> dsl.yahoo.com

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

January 1, 2006

Not all Farm Bureaus are the same. Each state has its own system.

kathryn russell

www.MajestyFarm.com

" The one the tyrants fear is the man who

knows his rights and is prepared to stand up for them. "

andr Solzhenitsyn

Re: Re: Cow sharing as a sham

I NEVER said I agree with their politics. In fact I hate them for that.

However, when you need insurance and don't want to pay the bigger companies

their BIGGER prices, Farm Bureau is there. Plus, I checked with the other

companies (THEY ARE ALL CROOKS)and Farm Bureau was the only one with the

policy on the cows.

K.C.

RE: Re: Cow sharing as a sham

> RE that great Joke, Farm Bureau: They have sided with

> Monsanto in cases where farmers were accused of

> planting " protected, Patented " GMO Seed. Why? Because

> Monsanto gives college scholarships to Farm Bureau

> members and those seem to go to children of the local

> boards of directors with amazing regularity. THose

> kids must be soooo smart.

> Recently, one of my neighbors had his 4-wheeler

> stolen. He uses it to go to the garden, deer hunt and

> ride his grand children around the fields in a little

> wagon that he pulls. IT was parked under the shed at

> the house, beside his lawn mower, which was also

> stolen, not under the farm shed. HE was asked if he

> ever used it for going to the chicken house or to

> check fences etc. " Of course I might, but I usually

> take the old pickup, because all the tools etc. are in

> it. " But because he " might " take it to the chicken

> house, it was considered farm and not covered. The

> lawn mower was.

> What a joke.

> Bill Dunlap

>

> __________________________________________

> Yahoo! DSL - Something to write home about.

> Just $16.99/mo. or less.

> dsl.yahoo.com

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

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