Re: Re: jersey eating less

[Guest guest]

> Have you noticed any change in milk or swollen quarters? Has her

> manure changed? What is the hay like?

No change in quality of milk, but quantity has dropped in 1/2. No udder

changes. Haven't seen her poop. No sign of diarrhea. The hay is a grass

mix.. some clover. We tried giving her some of the square bales that

are from a different source. Not at all moldy. No difference. She just

keeps nosing through it and then looking over at the house like, " come

on, guys, feed me something. " She gobbles up all her extras that we

regularly give her.. beets, rice bran, kelp, EM's, molasses, azomite,

bokashi. She looks healthy and alert, pee is normal. We've had her for

2-1/2 years and she's never done this before. Other cow and calf are

fine and eating the hay like normal.

[Guest guest]

Are you unable to get alfalfa in your area? I think she would do a little

better if you can get it.

K.C.

Re: Re: jersey eating less

>> Have you noticed any change in milk or swollen quarters? Has her

>> manure changed? What is the hay like?

>

> No change in quality of milk, but quantity has dropped in 1/2. No udder

> changes. Haven't seen her poop. No sign of diarrhea. The hay is a grass

> mix.. some clover. We tried giving her some of the square bales that

> are from a different source. Not at all moldy. No difference. She just

> keeps nosing through it and then looking over at the house like, " come

> on, guys, feed me something. " She gobbles up all her extras that we

> regularly give her.. beets, rice bran, kelp, EM's, molasses, azomite,

> bokashi. She looks healthy and alert, pee is normal. We've had her for

> 2-1/2 years and she's never done this before. Other cow and calf are

> fine and eating the hay like normal.

>

>

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What is bokashi?

K.C.

Re: jersey eating less

>

>>

>> Are you unable to get alfalfa in your area? I think she would do a

>> little

>> better if you can get it.

>>

>> K.C.

>

> No, no one grows alfalfa up here. BTW, her poop is normal. She continues

> to eat bokashi,

> beets, EM's... but still no hay... uggh.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know where you got that information about alfalfa. That's all cows

are fed here and in many other states. We get the highest possible protein

hay, i.e. " Dairy Quality " . It wouldn't be called that if it wasn't good for

them. Over time people would report the problems you claim and stop feeding

it. I know several people that have fed this to their dairy cows and they

have all lived extremely long lives with no problems at all. Alfalfa does

not cause mastitis or any of the other problems you bring up. That's just

flat not true. I think you have gotten some bad advice.

K.C.

Re: jersey eating less

>

> It sounds a bit like hardware. Any chance there could be any bits

> of wire in the hay or metal in the feed? It is odd she would keep

> eating everything else, but milk drops rapidly when this happens. If

> it is, you will see almost no manure as she is eating so little and it

> will be very hard and dry. If you suspect it give her a magnet. It

> won't hurt and usually clears up quickly if it is hardware. The metal

> actually pokes through the stomach.

>

> How long is she fresh? Ketosis really sets them off, but I've only

> had one case and it was so many years ago I can't remember how it came

> about. I know it tends to set in about a month after freshening. It

> is an energy imbalance/ shortage. There are strips you test the

> urine with to know for sure.

>

>

> The hay sounds fine. Cows prefer a nice mix and it is far less

> potent. A little alfalfa is fine, but it has far too much soluble

> protein which floods the blood stream with urea nitrogen. It then

> takes energy to excrete the excess. The excess protein can cause

> mastitis and breeding problems as it passes through the milk and

> reproductive tract ( called milk urea nitrogen and blood urea

> nitrogen). I realize some only feed alfalfa, but don't feel bad if you

> can't get any. My cows like your type of hay much better.

>

> Cheyenne

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>> > Have you noticed any change in milk or swollen quarters? Has her

>> > manure changed? What is the hay like?

>>

>> No change in quality of milk, but quantity has dropped in 1/2. No udder

>> changes. Haven't seen her poop. No sign of diarrhea. The hay is a grass

>> mix.. some clover. We tried giving her some of the square bales that

>> are from a different source. Not at all moldy. No difference. She just

>> keeps nosing through it and then looking over at the house like, " come

>> on, guys, feed me something. " She gobbles up all her extras that we

>> regularly give her.. beets, rice bran, kelp, EM's, molasses, azomite,

>> bokashi. She looks healthy and alert, pee is normal. We've had her for

>> 2-1/2 years and she's never done this before. Other cow and calf are

>> fine and eating the hay like normal.

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

For real information on urea nitrogen, go to this link:

http://cahpwww.vet.upenn.edu/mun/mun_info.html

It totally disproves what you say and in fact the urea, blood and protein is

absolutely necessary to break down ammonia so the system does not become

toxic and urea is present naturally in milk. Blood urea levels vary

depending on diet, but it is certainly not a bad thing and does not cause

problems....in fact, quite the opposite.

K.C.

Re: jersey eating less

>

> It sounds a bit like hardware. Any chance there could be any bits

> of wire in the hay or metal in the feed? It is odd she would keep

> eating everything else, but milk drops rapidly when this happens. If

> it is, you will see almost no manure as she is eating so little and it

> will be very hard and dry. If you suspect it give her a magnet. It

> won't hurt and usually clears up quickly if it is hardware. The metal

> actually pokes through the stomach.

>

> How long is she fresh? Ketosis really sets them off, but I've only

> had one case and it was so many years ago I can't remember how it came

> about. I know it tends to set in about a month after freshening. It

> is an energy imbalance/ shortage. There are strips you test the

> urine with to know for sure.

>

>

> The hay sounds fine. Cows prefer a nice mix and it is far less

> potent. A little alfalfa is fine, but it has far too much soluble

> protein which floods the blood stream with urea nitrogen. It then

> takes energy to excrete the excess. The excess protein can cause

> mastitis and breeding problems as it passes through the milk and

> reproductive tract ( called milk urea nitrogen and blood urea

> nitrogen). I realize some only feed alfalfa, but don't feel bad if you

> can't get any. My cows like your type of hay much better.

>

> Cheyenne

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>> > Have you noticed any change in milk or swollen quarters? Has her

>> > manure changed? What is the hay like?

>>

>> No change in quality of milk, but quantity has dropped in 1/2. No udder

>> changes. Haven't seen her poop. No sign of diarrhea. The hay is a grass

>> mix.. some clover. We tried giving her some of the square bales that

>> are from a different source. Not at all moldy. No difference. She just

>> keeps nosing through it and then looking over at the house like, " come

>> on, guys, feed me something. " She gobbles up all her extras that we

>> regularly give her.. beets, rice bran, kelp, EM's, molasses, azomite,

>> bokashi. She looks healthy and alert, pee is normal. We've had her for

>> 2-1/2 years and she's never done this before. Other cow and calf are

>> fine and eating the hay like normal.

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

> Archive search: http://onibasu.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

xxx comment within

Re: Re: jersey eating less

Margie is producing 2.5 gallons per milking and I'm only milking once a day now, so that's pretty good. She naturally went from 3 gallons twice a day to 2.5 once a day. Cows will adjust their production for what is being taken. She hasn't lost production at all since I went to once a day. I do expect her to slow down a little because that's natural, the longer into lactation she goes.

xxxxxxx I've seen cows drop quickly once they get pregnant, I've seen cows drop off in milk at tail end abruptly. Get her pregnant before she's dried off.

I've never heard of overfeeding alfalfa to the point of having a problem. What I have noticed is that cows pretty much eat what they need and will come back to it later if they get hungry. I try not to feed so much that they have bunches left over.

xxxxxx You have to take this with caution: a cow that goes hungry a little (1 hour/day) will eat more than a cow that has feed in front of her 24/7. A tight rope to walk, but on commercial dairies can be done to increase DMI.

Something other people do in the winter is feed some oat hay or wheat straw to build up heat. I know if I throw some straw into the mix, say for bedding, they will eat some of it, but get tired of it real fast and want their alfalfa.

xxxxxx I've heard of this before, but the caloric intake will be suppressed and may cause weight loss and the subsequent stress could compromise the immune system.

As a side note: I just hope all you folks appreciate your farmers, if you are buying milk from people who hand milk in the winter. I have to tell you that milking in 7-10 deg. isn't easy. I've had to wear a silk glove on my right hand and got a $1 pair of gloves that I cut the thumb, forefinger and middle fingers out of so I can milk and not freeze the other two fingers. It's just really bad in the mornings now.

xxxxxx You may want to try nitrile milking gloves. They are like a surgical glove that is not latex. Many commercial dairies use them because they do not transfer bacteria from cow to cow like bare hands can transfer and transmit.

[Guest guest]

Margie is pregnant....due in Aug.

I feed them 3 times a day. That way they eat their hay and normally don't leave much. I feel it also gives them time to ruminate properly and digest. It's just always worked for me.

Since I'm only milking one cow at this time, I usually use the regular latex gloves that I get in packs of 10, but I will look into the ones you suggest. I knew there was something out there because my friend Lorie uses gloves like you are talking about. Thanks for the tip.

K.C.

Re: Re: jersey eating less

Margie is producing 2.5 gallons per milking and I'm only milking once a day now, so that's pretty good. She naturally went from 3 gallons twice a day to 2.5 once a day. Cows will adjust their production for what is being taken. She hasn't lost production at all since I went to once a day. I do expect her to slow down a little because that's natural, the longer into lactation she goes.

xxxxxxx I've seen cows drop quickly once they get pregnant, I've seen cows drop off in milk at tail end abruptly. Get her pregnant before she's dried off.

I've never heard of overfeeding alfalfa to the point of having a problem. What I have noticed is that cows pretty much eat what they need and will come back to it later if they get hungry. I try not to feed so much that they have bunches left over.

xxxxxx You have to take this with caution: a cow that goes hungry a little (1 hour/day) will eat more than a cow that has feed in front of her 24/7. A tight rope to walk, but on commercial dairies can be done to increase DMI.

Something other people do in the winter is feed some oat hay or wheat straw to build up heat. I know if I throw some straw into the mix, say for bedding, they will eat some of it, but get tired of it real fast and want their alfalfa.

xxxxxx I've heard of this before, but the caloric intake will be suppressed and may cause weight loss and the subsequent stress could compromise the immune system.

As a side note: I just hope all you folks appreciate your farmers, if you are buying milk from people who hand milk in the winter. I have to tell you that milking in 7-10 deg. isn't easy. I've had to wear a silk glove on my right hand and got a $1 pair of gloves that I cut the thumb, forefinger and middle fingers out of so I can milk and not freeze the other two fingers. It's just really bad in the mornings now.

xxxxxx You may want to try nitrile milking gloves. They are like a surgical glove that is not latex. Many commercial dairies use them because they do not transfer bacteria from cow to cow like bare hands can transfer and transmit.

[Guest guest]

....except in those places that can't grow alfalfa, eat alfalfa year round in addition to pasture and do not have any problems with it. Moreover, when they cut alfalfa, they don't just bale it up. It is cured first. It has to be. You can not feed green, fresh growing or just cut alfalfa to cattle because that will kill them.

xxxx It can be done with success. As part of a managed pasture system grazing alfalfa can be done provided the cows don't move into lush alfalfa on an empty stomach (bloating prob) and they are supplemented properly.

Even when the farmers sell "green cut" to the dairies, it is cured first. The only difference is it is delivered un-baled. The only time you can turn cattle out onto an alfalfa field is once it's thoroughly frozen. That removes the toxins.

xxxxxxx Toxins???

I know the farmers around here turn their cattle out onto their fields once there has been a hard freeze here.Naturally, if talking about mega dairies where they feed a lot of crap mixed in with the good alfalfa, I can see where problems may occur.K.C.

[Guest guest]

There are multiple reasons certainly, but in the grazing circlesfarmers are figuring out the reality. Cows and grass go together asthey have for centuries. If they have no choice they will eat it, andI'm not saying they won't otherwise, but it won't kill them if theyeat it fresh. Unless you're talking about the potential of bloat. Mostgraziers start out with a fair bit of alfalfa in their pasture as theygrew it when conventional. It dies out quickly and grass fills in. Nowthe profit is in the farmers pocket. Keep access to straw as at least your cow can get some fiber to soakup the protein. A lot of big dairies are feeding straw in their TMR tooffset the potent protein problems they're running into. Even a pileof corn silage isn't enough. Cheyenne

xxxxxxxxxxx Do you have any clover or alfalfa in your pastures?

What is your take on corn silage in the low input paradigm you mention as alfalfa being an expensive crop?