Guest guest Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Don't have time for a long reply, but this could be a type of neuralgia, a pain that lingers after an insult to the tissues and nerves even after everything seems to have healed. It can be seen in any part of the body, or even in parts that no longer exist, such as an amputated arm or leg. If it is not infection, perhaps she needs to see a pain specialist - there are many strategies that can be used to deal with this type of situation. Sharon Knorr So, in the new BAMS, there are some studies about how deep breast pain between feedings in unlikely to be candida as was thought. My client had nipple damage on one side and is (still pumping and supplementing post frenotomy) and is experiencing sharp pains after feeding in the one breast. I'm thinking vasospasm, but mom has no blanching or color change. No shiny or flaky skin. Nipple damage healed, but latch still uncomfortable on that side. Could be bacterial infection, but seems unlikely if nipple is healed (and no sign of infection). Thoughts?-- Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLCLactation ConsultantAtlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLCwww.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com (404)-590-MILK (6455) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Since nursing is still uncomfortable on that side, I'm leaning to the idea that baby is still damaging the nipple, just not to the point of tearing holes in it, and compressing or otherwise damaging the nerve that is then reacting by causing pain. Dee Kassing So, in the new BAMS, there are some studies about how deep breast pain between feedings in unlikely to be candida as was thought. My client had nipple damage on one side and is (still pumping and supplementing post frenotomy) and is experiencing sharp pains after feeding in the one breast. I'm thinking vasospasm, but mom has no blanching or color change. No shiny or flaky skin. Nipple damage healed, but latch still uncomfortable on that side. Could be bacterial infection, but seems unlikely if nipple is healed (and no sign of infection).Thoughts?-- Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLCLactation ConsultantAtlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLCwww.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com(404)-590-MILK (6455) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 At Gold this year, there was a talk about a compression of nerves that mimics vasospasm. I haven't seen any publications yet, but they treated by pectoral exercises. Very interesting! The talk was by Edith Kernerman and was entitled " Mammary Constriction syndrome. I would be glad to send the handout from the talk that I downloaded to anyone, but don't know if that is allowed. I don't feel comfortable posting it here. Thanks! Tricia ELbl IBCLC hopeful! Just 3 weeks left to wait... LLL of Roselle/Schaumburg IL > > > > > > > So, in the new BAMS, there are some studies about how deep breast pain between feedings in unlikely to be candida as was thought. My client had nipple damage on one side and is (still pumping and supplementing post frenotomy) and is experiencing sharp pains after feeding in the one breast. I'm thinking vasospasm, but mom has no blanching or color change. No shiny or flaky skin. Nipple damage healed, but latch still uncomfortable on that side. Could be bacterial infection, but seems unlikely if nipple is healed (and no sign of infection). > > Thoughts? > > -- > Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLC > Lactation Consultant > Atlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLC > www.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com > (404)-590-MILK (6455) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 You can always contact Edith Kernerman in Toronto Canada. She can be contacted through http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content & view=article & id=62 & Itemid=33 Ghislaine Reid, BA (Translation 1981), LLL (1990), IBCLC(2002)Montreal, Quebec, Canada De : [mailto: ] De la part de TriciaEnvoyé : 10 octobre 2011 15:27À : Objet : Re: deep breast pain At Gold this year, there was a talk about a compression of nerves that mimics vasospasm. I haven't seen any publications yet, but they treated by pectoral exercises. Very interesting!The talk was by Edith Kernerman and was entitled " Mammary Constriction syndrome. I would be glad to send the handout from the talk that I downloaded to anyone, but don't know if that is allowed. I don't feel comfortable posting it here.Thanks!Tricia ELblIBCLC hopeful! Just 3 weeks left to wait...LLL of Roselle/Schaumburg IL > > > > > > > So, in the new BAMS, there are some studies about how deep breast pain between feedings in unlikely to be candida as was thought. My client had nipple damage on one side and is (still pumping and supplementing post frenotomy) and is experiencing sharp pains after feeding in the one breast. I'm thinking vasospasm, but mom has no blanching or color change. No shiny or flaky skin. Nipple damage healed, but latch still uncomfortable on that side. Could be bacterial infection, but seems unlikely if nipple is healed (and no sign of infection).> > Thoughts?> > -- > Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLC> Lactation Consultant> Atlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLC> www.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com> (404)-590-MILK (6455)> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Thank you for the suggestion! I have contacted her, and will let you all know her response! Tricia Elbl LLL Leader IBCLC hopeful > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, in the new BAMS, there are some studies about how deep breast pain > between feedings in unlikely to be candida as was thought. My client had > nipple damage on one side and is (still pumping and supplementing post > frenotomy) and is experiencing sharp pains after feeding in the one breast. > I'm thinking vasospasm, but mom has no blanching or color change. No shiny > or flaky skin. Nipple damage healed, but latch still uncomfortable on that > side. Could be bacterial infection, but seems unlikely if nipple is healed > (and no sign of infection). > > > > Thoughts? > > > > -- > > Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLC > > Lactation Consultant > > Atlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLC > > www.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com > > (404)-590-MILK (6455) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Here is the reply I recieved from Ms. Kennerman. I hope it is helpful! Tricia Elbl LLL Roselle/Schaumburg IBCLC to Be ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 3:50 PM Subject: RE: : GOLD conference handout To: Tricia Elbl , drjacknewman@... Hi Tricia, Thanks for your enquiry. The Gold conference talk is available for download at http://www.health-e-learning.com/courses/experts-in-lactation/224-xl34 . The new Pain Algorithm is now available on our website (www.breastfeedinginc.ca ) It helps with assessment and tx of causes of nipple and breast pain and deals very much with MCS and the PEC muscle massage and stretching treatments. You might be interested in getting hold of the algorithm to help in your assessments. As for a summary, here is what I have been writing to others (please feel free to share): In short, MCS is a still-hypothetical dx for a particular group of symptoms involving breast pain and some nipple pain. The symptoms include deep pain, sharp shooting pains, burning (cold or hot), dull aches, itchiness, pulsating pain, and others. It can involve s/s of vasospasm in the nipple as well. The pain seems to occur mostly after the feedings but can certainly occur during as well. We did a pilot study in our clinic and arrived at over 40 women whose s/s were consistent with the syndrome and who responded to the tx. The theory is that tightening and/or contraction and/or shortening of the pectoralis muscle (and sometimes the anterior serratus) can cause compression on the vessels that go the breast. This causes vasoconstriction and then ischemia and possible hypoxia resulting in pain and symptoms. Lactic acid build up in the pec muscles can contribute to the pain as well, and can result in pain on touch as well as pain that worsens throughout the day. By using pec muscle massage in one of four areas, and doing pec stretches before or after feeding (depending) can interrupt the pain immediately. We are in the mid stages of designing a study using Doppler to compare blood flow in women in whom we have identified MCS compared to women we haven't; and as well looking at the effects of the pec muscle massage on the blood flow. Hope that helps, E Edith Kernerman, IBCLC, NBCI President and Executive Director, International Breastfeeding Centre Clinic Director, Newman Breastfeeding Clinic 1255 Sheppard Avenue East Toronto, ON, Canada, M2K 1E2 , phone , fax www.nbci.ca edith@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, in the new BAMS, there are some studies about how deep breast pain > > between feedings in unlikely to be candida as was thought. My client had > > nipple damage on one side and is (still pumping and supplementing post > > frenotomy) and is experiencing sharp pains after feeding in the one breast. > > I'm thinking vasospasm, but mom has no blanching or color change. No shiny > > or flaky skin. Nipple damage healed, but latch still uncomfortable on that > > side. Could be bacterial infection, but seems unlikely if nipple is healed > > (and no sign of infection). > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > -- > > > Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLC > > > Lactation Consultant > > > Atlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLC > > > www.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com > > > (404)-590-MILK (6455) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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