Re: Sleep Lady?

[Guest guest]

First time I have heard of her.  Sleeping through the night since 2 weeks of age???? With no crying???Sounds odd to me.  Has anyone had experience with this lady?I have not.  Looks like big business,  Did you see how much she charges???? wow

I am in the wrong fieldShari Silady

 

Anyone know anything about this??

 

http://www.sleeplady.com/

 

Thoughts and comments?

 

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~ Shari Silady ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Mothers have as powerful an influence over the welfare of future generations as all other earthly causes combined. "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

pp doulas like her up here in seattle. I don't know her and don't encourage this type of business... sooo.... that's all I'm gonna say! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- From:

Shari Silady Subject: Re: Sleep Lady?To: Date: Friday, August 19, 2011, 4:11 PM

First time I have heard of her. Sleeping through the night since 2 weeks of age???? With no crying???Sounds odd to me. Has anyone had experience with this lady?I have not. Looks like big business, Did you see how much she charges???? wow

I am in the wrong fieldShari Silady

Anyone know anything about this??

http://www.sleeplady.com/

Thoughts and comments?

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

-- ~~~~~~~~~~ Shari Silady ~~~~~~~~~~~~~"Mothers have as powerful an influence over the welfare of future generations as all other earthly causes combined."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

Notice in her little video that she says the baby doesn't cry it out alone. I wonder if her method is like that used by the Nanny on TV - she teaches parents to sit quietly, in the child's room, not responding, while the child cries. I don't know. Just suspicious of anything that manipulates babies. We have a few ladies in the Atlanta area who teach parents to get their babies to sleep. One thing they do is stuff, even nursing babies, with formula before bed.

Anne Grider

Sleep Lady?

Anyone know anything about this??

http://www.sleeplady.com/

Thoughts and comments?

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

What psychological damage must be done to those little babies, knowing that their parent is sitting there in the room staring at them yet won't help them in their distress! The baby never knows if he will get help or not when he cries, because the parent only answers on the parent's time frame, which of course means nothing to the baby. You want to read a scary book about how damaging these actions can be, read "Ghosts From the Nursery" by Robin Karr-Morse and Meredith S. Wiley. It is an extremely well-referenced book.

I tell parents that I think when we give babies the idea that their requests for help don't count for anything (no one answers their cries), we are setting them up to be prime targets for child molesters, because the children won't report the "bad touch" since they have been quite well taught that their needs are not important and are only answered when it is convenient for the parent.

Dee Kassing

(about Sleep Lady)Notice in her little video that she says the baby doesn't cry it out alone. I wonder if her method is like that used by the Nanny on TV - she teaches parents to sit quietly, in the child's room, not responding, while the child cries. I don't know. Just suspicious of anything that manipulates babies. We have a few ladies in the Atlanta area who teach parents to get their babies to sleep. One thing they do is stuff, even nursing babies, with formula before bed.

Anne Grider

[Guest guest]

Dee I totally agree.  I have read the book " Ghosts from the Nursery " .  Everyone should read that book that is in this business or any business caring for babies.  I saw the movie The Help today.. laughed and cried.  So sad so many children who are ignored.  I was one of them. 

I say the same thing you do to mom's who talk about doing ezzo or ferber.  Breaks my heart.I sometimes wonder why people have children.  I guess because it looks good in our society.  So sad.It breaks my heart when I am working in the hospital telling a mom about skin to skin.  And she replies how long do I have to do it.

Shari

 

What psychological damage must be done to those little babies, knowing that their parent is sitting there in the room staring at them yet won't help them in their distress!  The baby never knows if he will get help or not when he cries, because the parent only answers on the parent's time frame, which of course means nothing to the baby.  You want to read a scary book about how damaging these actions can be, read " Ghosts From the Nursery " by Robin Karr-Morse and Meredith S. Wiley.  It is an extremely well-referenced book.

 

I tell parents that I think when we give babies the idea that their requests for help don't count for anything (no one answers their cries), we are setting them up to be prime targets for child molesters, because the children won't report the " bad touch " since they have been quite well taught that their needs are not important and are only answered when it is convenient for the parent.

    Dee Kassing

   (about Sleep Lady)Notice in her little video that she says the baby doesn't cry it out alone. I wonder if her method is like that used by the Nanny on TV - she teaches parents to sit quietly, in the child's room, not responding, while the child cries. I don't know. Just suspicious of anything that manipulates babies. We have a few ladies in the Atlanta area who teach parents to get their babies to sleep. One thing they do is stuff, even nursing babies, with formula before bed.

Anne Grider

 

 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~ Shari Silady ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Mothers have as powerful an influence over the welfare of future generations as all other earthly causes combined. "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

Excellent, Dee!!!

Jan www.grammiesawards.blogspot.com

I tell parents that I think when we give babies the idea that their requests for help don't count for anything (no one answers their cries), we are setting them up to be prime targets for child molesters, because the children won't report the "bad touch" since they have been quite well taught that their needs are not important and are only answered when it is convenient for the parent.

[Guest guest]

I agree about Ghosts from the Nursery!!

I used to teach a class called prenatal parenting and that book was a required

reading for us, it was so eye opening to the long term consequences of

psychological and physical abuse.

>

> Dee I totally agree. I have read the book " Ghosts from the Nursery " .

> Everyone should read that book that is in this business or any business

> caring for babies.

> I saw the movie The Help today.. laughed and cried. So sad so many children

> who are ignored. I was one of them.

> I say the same thing you do to mom's who talk about doing ezzo or ferber.

> Breaks my heart.

> I sometimes wonder why people have children. I guess because it looks good

> in our society. So sad.

> It breaks my heart when I am working in the hospital telling a mom about

> skin to skin. And she replies how long do I have to do it.

> Shari

>

[Guest guest]

I came across a website of an IBCLC who also says whe teaches babies to sleep.

Honestly. Babies do not need to learn developmentally normal behaviors if all is

well. If it is not sleep training is hardly the issue. If parents only want to

work 9 to 5 I suggest they get a different job. Babies are a 24/7 full time

career! I get so frustrated when I get these calls from women who are gone 10

hrs a day and then want the baby to sleep 12 hrs at night. I ask them very calmy

and seriously. With only 2 waking hours with your baby how exactly will you form

a relationship?

Thanks Dee. I am adding the book to my wish list. Maybe I am scarred because my

mother never ever ever cared for us at night. We were put to crib with a teddy

bear and a bottle and she came back in the morning. Sometimes even spanking

first because she said a baby sleeps hard and deep after a good cry. I can't

stomach being told it is good to let a baby cry it out.

Pam MazzellaDiBosco. IBCLC

[Guest guest]

Pam and everybody,While I in no way advocate letting a child scream to sleep, I am much more understanding of people needing help getting their children to sleep. I have counseled numerous parents on the importance of sleep being a learned behavior, similar to the lines of “The No Cry Sleep Solution”. I am of course a long time IBCLC but also a mother to 8 children, the oldest 17 and the youngest 8 months. I also have a busy private practice, and my family depends on me for the sole income. NONE of my children sleep. It must be in the genes. That is how I am really sure no one switched them at the hospital J My oldest began to sleep through the night at about 5 years. My current baby, although the story is just a repeat of every child, at 8 months is a mess. He takes about 45 minutes to fall asleep- only to stay sleeping for about 45 minutes and then wake up crying. I never have a stretch at night longer than one hour and spend a lot of time getting him back to sleep. We do cosleep- as did almost all of my children, and they continue to wake about 8-10 times a night. I have to wake up and go to work in the morning, and have lots of patience to deal with these new moms. I have to come home in the afternoons and do homework with the other children, laundry, cook, clean, and be a mommy to 3 teenagers, as well as a wife to my husband. I can deal with a little lack of sleep. When it becomes no straight sleep for months on end, I become crazed. My cognitive abilities are impaired. I am short tempered, and cannot function in my other rolls. I begin to resent my baby, etc etc I dream of running away to a room and sleeping uninterrupted for 12 hours a night for a week straight.I believe in attachment parenting, co sleeping, etc. But to tell a mother this will pass and your baby needs you may be a truth, but not helping the NOW situation that the whole family becomes at risk with a mother who cannot function. To tell someone who works to nap during the day is impossible, I cannot walk out on other kids during homework, supper time. My husband does tons, but nights are not his thing. So therefore, my point is to show that not all parents who are desperately seeking a sleep solution are bad or uncaring, nor are all people looking to offer help. We can give info about what the norms are, and sometimes that is enough. A mother of one newborn will be able to sleep at other times, usually. We need to navigate between realizing that some of our clients need a SOLUTION now- and offering helpful information on what will be detrimental while still looking for some way that things can immediately improve. I still will never forget my colleagues/friends IBCLC’s who are grandmother age, laughing and telling me how my lack of sleep would pass. That is like snickering at someone with severe mental illness and trivializing the situation they are in. We need to REALLY HEAR our clients- if they say pain or help we cannot offer boxed solutions or a party line. Because the ultimate goal is attachment parenting, long term BF with happy parents who can function in their rolls with a smile.Thanks for hearing my rant, but it touched a nerve!!! Billowitz, IBCLCIsrael From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Pam MazzellaDiBoscoSent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:23 PMTo: Subject: Re: Sleep Lady? I came across a website of an IBCLC who also says whe teaches babies to sleep. Honestly. Babies do not need to learn developmentally normal behaviors if all is well. If it is not sleep training is hardly the issue. If parents only want to work 9 to 5 I suggest they get a different job. Babies are a 24/7 full time career! I get so frustrated when I get these calls from women who are gone 10 hrs a day and then want the baby to sleep 12 hrs at night. I ask them very calmy and seriously. With only 2 waking hours with your baby how exactly will you form a relationship? Thanks Dee. I am adding the book to my wish list. Maybe I am scarred because my mother never ever ever cared for us at night. We were put to crib with a teddy bear and a bottle and she came back in the morning. Sometimes even spanking first because she said a baby sleeps hard and deep after a good cry. I can't stomach being told it is good to let a baby cry it out. Pam MazzellaDiBosco. IBCLC__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6398 (20110821) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

, what are you doing to cope? And do any of the suggestions given in any of the books help you at all? I can't imagine being able to deal with all you are having to do on such little sleep.

As an "oldster" I don't sleep nearly as well now as I did even when my babies were little, and it has nothing to do with interruptions...just my own hormones (or lack of them, I guess).

So how are you doing it all?

Jan Barger, RN, MA, IBCLC, FILCA

Pam and everybody,

While I in no way advocate letting a child scream to sleep, I am much more understanding of people needing help getting their children to sleep. I have counseled numerous parents on the importance of sleep being a learned behavior, similar to the lines of “The No Cry Sleep Solutionâ€. I am of course a long time IBCLC but also a mother to 8 children, the oldest 17 and the youngest 8 months. I also have a busy private practice, and my family depends on me for the sole income. NONE of my children sleep. It must be in the genes. That is how I am really sure no one switched them at the hospital J My oldest began to sleep through the night at about 5 years. My current baby, although the story is just a repeat of every child, at 8 months is a mess. He takes about 45 minutes to fall asleep- only to stay sleeping for about 45 minutes and then wake up crying. I never have a stretch at night longer than one hour and spend a lot of time getting him back to sleep. We do cosleep- as did almost all of my children, and they continue to wake about 8-10 times a night. I have to wake up and go to work in the morning, and have lots of patience to deal with these new moms. I have to come home in the afternoons and do homework with the other children, laundry, cook, clean, and be a mommy to 3 teenagers, as well as a wife to my husband. I can deal with a little lack of sleep. When it becomes no straight sleep for months on end, I become crazed. My cognitive abilities are impaired. I am short tempered, and cannot function in my other rolls. I begin to resent my baby, etc etc

I dream of running away to a room and sleeping uninterrupted for 12 hours a night for a week straight.

I believe in attachment parenting, co sleeping, etc. But to tell a mother this will pass and your baby needs you may be a truth, but not helping the NOW situation that the whole family becomes at risk with a mother who cannot function. To tell someone who works to nap during the day is impossible, I cannot walk out on other kids during homework, supper time. My husband does tons, but nights are not his thing. So therefore, my point is to show that not all parents who are desperately seeking a sleep solution are bad or uncaring, nor are all people looking to offer help. We can give info about what the norms are, and sometim es that is enough. A mother of one newborn will be able to sleep at other times, usually.

We need to navigate between realizing that some of our clients need a SOLUTION now- and offering helpful information on what will be detrimental while still looking for some way that things can immediately improve.

I still will never forget my colleagues/friends IBCLC’s who are grandmother age, laughing and telling me how my lack of sleep would pass. That is like snickering at someone with severe mental illness and trivializing the situation they are in.

We need to REALLY HEAR our clients- if they say pain or help we cannot offer boxed solutions or a party line. Because the ultimate goal is attachment parenting, long term BF with happy parents who can function in their rolls with a smile.

Thanks for hearing my rant, but it touched a nerve!!!

Billowitz, IBCLC

Israel

[Guest guest]

I don't consider the ability to sleep to be a learned behavior. Having something

that interferes with the normal behavior of sleep is not the same thing as

needing to learn how to do it. It makes sense that when there is something

interfering/disrupting or whatever with the normal ability to sleep the

necessity to help a child learn to compensate or alter their behavior may be

helpful. I would still suggest there is a reason for it rather we ever know why

or understand it. That said wanting more than 45 min of sleep is normal. Not at

all what I am talking about. The Twelve Hours by Twelve Weeks mentality is not

good for babies or a breastfeeding mommas milk supply. I agree we need to

listen and I am sure we all do. And I am pretty sure no one is talking about

those babies that fall outside the curve for sleep. So please know for sure that

I know even the most loving wonderful women must sleep !! Haha. I have seven

kids and I do get that 45 minutes is not even a full sleep cycle!! Haha. It

doesn't change that I do not think babies need sleep training as a population.

Like all things human there are those who have issues outside a range of

biologically expected ranges and like all other issues they may need something

different to compensate. I still do not believe it is ok to treat all babies as

though they need training. And on no occasion do I think it is ok to leave a

child to cry alone no matter what the reason.

I think it is impossible to even get a grasp on normal because sadly so few

babies ever experience what their mammal biology might expect. From drugs in

birth to formula for food we alter our babies. And then experts research their

behaviors without even understanding the implications of how we already changed

their brains.

I cannot imagine what I would have done without getting at least two hours of

rest at a time! Makes me think of that book about sleep written especially for

adults. I would so be saying it if I only got 45 minutes!

Maybe your sleepless babes will grow up to be excellent night shift doctors and

nurses! You must be exhausted!!!

Pam

Pam MazzellaDiBosco. IBCLC

[Guest guest]

I feel your pain! really! I do help parents with sleep issues as part of my business and usually, I help most with parents' expectations, but sometimes babies need help with routine, etc. or just a simple change is needed. I don't advocate anything harsh or ignoring baby--ever! but I work with moms with very difficult sleepers and I know how hard it can be. (also, I had a kid who didn't sleep, too... so I get it!)Bless you and I hope you get more sleep soon. I'd go absolutely crazy in your situation! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: RE: Sleep Lady?To: Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 11:14 PM

Pam and everybody,While I in no way advocate letting a child scream to sleep, I am much more understanding of people needing help getting their children to sleep. I have counseled numerous parents on the importance of sleep being a learned behavior, similar to the lines of “The No Cry Sleep Solutionâ€. I am of course a long time IBCLC but also a mother to 8 children, the oldest 17 and the youngest 8 months. I also have a busy private practice, and my family depends on me for the sole income. NONE of my children sleep. It must be in the genes. That is how I am really sure no one switched them at the hospital J My oldest began to sleep through the night at about 5 years. My current baby, although the story is just a repeat of every child, at 8 months is a mess. He takes about 45 minutes to fall asleep- only to stay sleeping for about 45 minutes and then wake up crying. I never have a stretch at night longer than one hour and spend a lot of time getting him back to sleep. We do cosleep- as did almost all of my children, and they continue to wake about 8-10 times a night. I have to wake up and go to work in the morning, and have lots of patience to deal with these new moms. I have to come home in the afternoons and do homework with the other children, laundry, cook, clean, and be a mommy to 3 teenagers, as well as a wife to my husband. I can deal with a little lack of sleep. When it becomes no

straight sleep for months on end, I become crazed. My cognitive abilities are impaired. I am short tempered, and cannot function in my other rolls. I begin to resent my baby, etc etc I dream of running away to a room and sleeping uninterrupted for 12 hours a night for a week straight.I believe in attachment parenting, co sleeping, etc. But to tell a mother this will pass and your baby needs you may be a truth, but not helping the NOW situation that the whole family becomes at risk with a mother who cannot function. To tell someone who works to nap during the day is impossible, I cannot walk out on other kids during homework, supper time. My husband does tons, but nights are not his thing. So therefore, my point is to show that not

all parents who are desperately seeking a sleep solution are bad or uncaring, nor are all people looking to offer help. We can give info about what the norms are, and sometimes that is enough. A mother of one newborn will be able to sleep at other times, usually. We need to navigate between realizing that some of our clients need a SOLUTION now- and offering helpful information on what will be detrimental while still looking for some way that things can immediately improve. I still will never forget my colleagues/friends IBCLC’s who are grandmother age, laughing and telling me how my lack of sleep would pass. That is like snickering at someone with severe mental illness and trivializing the situation they are in. We need to REALLY HEAR our clients- if they say pain or help we cannot offer boxed solutions or a party line. Because the ultimate goal is attachment parenting, long term BF with happy parents who can function in their rolls with a smile.Thanks for hearing my rant, but it touched a nerve!!! Billowitz, IBCLCIsrael From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Pam MazzellaDiBoscoSent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:23 PMTo: Subject: Re: Sleep Lady? I came across a website of an IBCLC who also says whe teaches babies to sleep. Honestly. Babies do not need to learn developmentally normal behaviors if all is well. If it is not sleep training is hardly the issue. If parents only want to work 9 to 5 I suggest they get a different job. Babies are a 24/7 full time career! I get so frustrated when I get these calls from women who are gone 10 hrs a day and then want the baby to sleep 12 hrs at night. I ask them very calmy and seriously. With only 2 waking hours with

your baby how exactly will you form a relationship? Thanks Dee. I am adding the book to my wish list. Maybe I am scarred because my mother never ever ever cared for us at night. We were put to crib with a teddy bear and a bottle and she came back in the morning. Sometimes even spanking first because she said a baby sleeps hard and deep after a good cry. I can't stomach being told it is good to let a baby cry it out. Pam MazzellaDiBosco. IBCLC__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6398 (20110821) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

I'm sure, , as a professional and a mom of many, you've already tried all possible solutions, so please don't think I'm speaking to you, except to send my sympathy!  For the moms I work with, though, if they do dairy elimination for a colicky baby, it is almost always the case that they mention not only a drastic reduction in fussiness, but that the baby is finally actually sleeping a decent stretch. I am pretty convinced (although has me thinking twice!) that pathological levels of poor sleep really are tied to some pathology somewhere else.  In any case, the solution certainly isn't to cry it out!  I never enjoy crying myself to sleep, and in case of illness or stress-based sleeplessness, a good cuddle can fix much!  I wish we as a people were as respectful of little people as we are of professional colleagues.  It would go a long way.  I also wish we were as respectful of mothers, and reliably provided the support they need.

Slightly OT and definitely religious (you've been warned!): It was a wonderful thing for me to realize, during my formation as a Secular Franciscan sister, that my children are not only entrusted to me as a steward, but they are my brother and sister in Christ, as much as or more than any other member of the human family.  I imagine there are parallels in many other faith and non-faith traditions.  Reframing how children are viewed is one of my personal little missions, mostly because the nurses at my local hospital have a tendency to call babies " stubborn " and " lazy " and the moms parrot it back to me as a reason that their babies do not nurse well.  It's always nice when I can point out that it is nobody's " fault, " just a set of problems to be solved in collaboration with the baby.

Off my soapbox for the day :)Lynn SFO LLLL IBCLCMissouri, USA

[Guest guest]

Pam and all, I did not mean for my rant to evoke sympathy- which I was not looking for, and also not to accuse you of being unsympathetic or helpful. I find the whole topic of infant sleep interesting.What I feel, and please jump in if anyone feels differently- if that anthropologically we were not meant to sleep through the night. So, A- nighttime waking is normal. B- some babies will naturally be very good sleepers, and that is fine. C- those that are terrible sleepers can be helped. I do not think my kids are the only crazy ones, I think there may be more out there- and maybe a lot of those moms are seeking help? I first work on nap times during the day with the mom- and practically that is probably better done not in a co sleeping environment just for practicality-in case she has any real world things to do like laundry and cooking or work J. But I do think mothers need guidance, and if not from a pro bonding IBCLC then from who? I think this falls very much in our scope, and has anyone else seen a very strong correlation between poor sleeping/ poor eating/ miserable baby? They are very tied together in my opinion.No, all babies do not need training, as some sleep beautifully. But I think a lot of parents may need guidance to help their babies sleep. One of the main reasons I liked the No Cry Sleep Solution is that she works on the premise that even co sleepers should sleep, and for years, I felt punished because I “chose” to co sleep. Not even one other of my friends has major sleep issues, and I am the only one who co-sleeps. And these are not moms who are letting their babies cry for hours. But nevertheless, I like the idea that a baby can learn to sleep wherever, and I do believe we can condition him poorly by always offering a warm and yummy breast. Of course they wake up all the time for that!!!I always cope by saying my kids are much too smart to be bothered with any sleep…JBut I would be happy with any suggestions of how to break a viscous no sleep cycle, because I always say sleep breeds more sleep…Tired in Israel, but basically agreeing with Pam… From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Pam MazzellaDiBoscoSent: Monday, August 22, 2011 4:10 PMTo: Subject: Re: Sleep Lady? I don't consider the ability to sleep to be a learned behavior. Having something that interferes with the normal behavior of sleep is not the same thing as needing to learn how to do it. It makes sense that when there is something interfering/disrupting or whatever with the normal ability to sleep the necessity to help a child learn to compensate or alter their behavior may be helpful. I would still suggest there is a reason for it rather we ever know why or understand it. That said wanting more than 45 min of sleep is normal. Not at all what I am talking about. The Twelve Hours by Twelve Weeks mentality is not good for babies or a breastfeeding mommas milk supply. I agree we need to listen and I am sure we all do. And I am pretty sure no one is talking about those babies that fall outside the curve for sleep. So please know for sure that I know even the most loving wonderful women must sleep !! Haha. I have seven kids and I do get that 45 minutes is not even a full sleep cycle!! Haha. It doesn't change that I do not think babies need sleep training as a population. Like all things human there are those who have issues outside a range of biologically expected ranges and like all other issues they may need something different to compensate. I still do not believe it is ok to treat all babies as though they need training. And on no occasion do I think it is ok to leave a child to cry alone no matter what the reason. I think it is impossible to even get a grasp on normal because sadly so few babies ever experience what their mammal biology might expect. From drugs in birth to formula for food we alter our babies. And then experts research their behaviors without even understanding the implications of how we already changed their brains. I cannot imagine what I would have done without getting at least two hours of rest at a time! Makes me think of that book about sleep written especially for adults. I would so be saying it if I only got 45 minutes!Maybe your sleepless babes will grow up to be excellent night shift doctors and nurses! You must be exhausted!!!Pam Pam MazzellaDiBosco. IBCLC__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6399 (20110822) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

I should probably clarify that when I use the pronoun " we " about respecting little people and moms, I'm talking about westernized culture in general, not we LCs, because we certainly do already or we wouldn't be in the business!

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Well, I always try to get dad involved in the the night time stuff... even if it's not his thing. You need some help at night. and sometimes babies sleep better with dad than with mom. my experience bears that out over and over again. At the very least, you'd get a little more rest! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- On Mon,

8/22/11, Shaya & Billowitz wrote:Subject: RE: Sleep Lady?To: Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 9:04 AM

Pam and all, I did not mean for my rant to evoke sympathy- which I was not looking for, and also not to accuse you of being unsympathetic or helpful. I find the whole topic of infant sleep interesting.What I feel, and please jump in if anyone feels differently- if that anthropologically we were not meant to sleep through the night. So, A- nighttime waking is normal. B- some babies will naturally be very good sleepers, and that is fine. C- those that are terrible sleepers can be helped. I do not think my kids are the only crazy ones, I think there may be more out there- and maybe a lot of those moms

are seeking help? I first work on nap times during the day with the mom- and practically that is probably better done not in a co sleeping environment just for practicality-in case she has any real world things to do like laundry and cooking or work J. But I do think mothers need guidance, and if not from a pro bonding IBCLC then from who? I think this falls very much in our scope, and has anyone else seen a very strong correlation between poor sleeping/ poor eating/ miserable baby? They are very tied together in my opinion.No, all babies do not need training, as some sleep beautifully. But I think a lot of parents may need guidance to help their babies sleep. One of the main reasons I liked the No Cry

Sleep Solution is that she works on the premise that even co sleepers should sleep, and for years, I felt punished because I “chose†to co sleep. Not even one other of my friends has major sleep issues, and I am the only one who co-sleeps. And these are not moms who are letting their babies cry for hours. But nevertheless, I like the idea that a baby can learn to sleep wherever, and I do believe we can condition him poorly by always offering a warm and yummy breast. Of course they wake up all the time for that!!!I always cope by saying my kids are much too smart to be bothered with any sleep…JBut I would be happy

with any suggestions of how to break a viscous no sleep cycle, because I always say sleep breeds more sleep…Tired in Israel, but basically agreeing with Pam… From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Pam MazzellaDiBoscoSent: Monday, August 22, 2011 4:10 PMTo: Subject: Re: Sleep Lady?

I don't consider the ability to sleep to be a learned behavior. Having something that interferes with the normal behavior of sleep is not the same thing as needing to learn how to do it. It makes sense that when there is something interfering/disrupting or whatever with the normal ability to sleep the necessity to help a child learn to compensate or alter their behavior may be helpful. I would still suggest there is a reason for it rather we ever know why or understand it. That said wanting more than 45 min of sleep is normal. Not at all what I am talking about. The Twelve Hours by Twelve Weeks mentality is not good for babies or a breastfeeding mommas milk supply. I agree we need to listen and I am sure we all do. And I am pretty sure no one is talking about those babies that fall outside the curve for sleep. So please know for sure that I know

even the most loving wonderful women must sleep !! Haha. I have seven kids and I do get that 45 minutes is not even a full sleep cycle!! Haha. It doesn't change that I do not think babies need sleep training as a population. Like all things human there are those who have issues outside a range of biologically expected ranges and like all other issues they may need something different to compensate. I still do not believe it is ok to treat all babies as though they need training. And on no occasion do I think it is ok to leave a child to cry alone no matter what the reason. I think it is impossible to even get a grasp on normal because sadly so few babies ever experience what their mammal biology might expect. From drugs in birth to formula for food we alter our babies. And then experts research their behaviors without even understanding the implications of how we already changed their brains. I cannot imagine what I would have done

without getting at least two hours of rest at a time! Makes me think of that book about sleep written especially for adults. I would so be saying it if I only got 45 minutes!Maybe your sleepless babes will grow up to be excellent night shift doctors and nurses! You must be exhausted!!!Pam Pam MazzellaDiBosco. IBCLC__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6399 (20110822) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Everyone has got to know their spouses limits!!!!  No sense in two zombies in the morning! From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of BeebeSent: Monday, August 22, 2011 7:19 PMTo: Subject: RE: Sleep Lady? Well, I always try to get dad involved in the the night time stuff... even if it's not his thing. You need some help at night. and sometimes babies sleep better with dad than with mom. my experience bears that out over and over again. At the very least, you'd get a little more rest! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/ --- Subject: RE: Sleep Lady?To: Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 9:04 AM Pam and all, I did not mean for my rant to evoke sympathy- which I was not looking for, and also not to accuse you of being unsympathetic or helpful. I find the whole topic of infant sleep interesting.What I feel, and please jump in if anyone feels differently- if that anthropologically we were not meant to sleep through the night. So, A- nighttime waking is normal. B- some babies will naturally be very good sleepers, and that is fine. C- those that are terrible sleepers can be helped. I do not think my kids are the only crazy ones, I think there may be more out there- and maybe a lot of those moms are seeking help? I first work on nap times during the day with the mom- and practically that is probably better done not in a co sleeping environment just for practicality-in case she has any real world things to do like laundry and cooking or work J. But I do think mothers need guidance, and if not from a pro bonding IBCLC then from who? I think this falls very much in our scope, and has anyone else seen a very strong correlation between poor sleeping/ poor eating/ miserable baby? They are very tied together in my opinion.No, all babies do not need training, as some sleep beautifully. But I think a lot of parents may need guidance to help their babies sleep. One of the main reasons I liked the No Cry Sleep Solution is that she works on the premise that even co sleepers should sleep, and for years, I felt punished because I “chose†to co sleep. Not even one other of my friends has major sleep issues, and I am the only one who co-sleeps. And these are not moms who are letting their babies cry for hours. But nevertheless, I like the idea that a baby can learn to sleep wherever, and I do believe we can condition him poorly by always offering a warm and yummy breast. Of course they wake up all the time for that!!!I always cope by saying my kids are much too smart to be bothered with any sleep…JBut I would be happy with any suggestions of how to break a viscous no sleep cycle, because I always say sleep breeds more sleep…Tired in Israel, but basically agreeing with Pam… From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Pam MazzellaDiBoscoSent: Monday, August 22, 2011 4:10 PMTo: Subject: Re: Sleep Lady? I don't consider the ability to sleep to be a learned behavior. Having something that interferes with the normal behavior of sleep is not the same thing as needing to learn how to do it. It makes sense that when there is something interfering/disrupting or whatever with the normal ability to sleep the necessity to help a child learn to compensate or alter their behavior may be helpful. I would still suggest there is a reason for it rather we ever know why or understand it. That said wanting more than 45 min of sleep is normal. Not at all what I am talking about. The Twelve Hours by Twelve Weeks mentality is not good for babies or a breastfeeding mommas milk supply. I agree we need to listen and I am sure we all do. And I am pretty sure no one is talking about those babies that fall outside the curve for sleep. So please know for sure that I know even the most loving wonderful women must sleep !! Haha. I have seven kids and I do get that 45 minutes is not even a full sleep cycle!! Haha. It doesn't change that I do not think babies need sleep training as a population. Like all things human there are those who have issues outside a range of biologically expected ranges and like all other issues they may need something different to compensate. I still do not believe it is ok to treat all babies as though they need training. And on no occasion do I think it is ok to leave a child to cry alone no matter what the reason. I think it is impossible to even get a grasp on normal because sadly so few babies ever experience what their mammal biology might expect. From drugs in birth to formula for food we alter our babies. And then experts research their behaviors without even understanding the implications of how we already changed their brains. I cannot imagine what I would have done without getting at least two hours of rest at a time! Makes me think of that book about sleep written especially for adults. I would so be saying it if I only got 45 minutes!Maybe your sleepless babes will grow up to be excellent night shift doctors and nurses! You must be exhausted!!!Pam Pam MazzellaDiBosco. IBCLC__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6399 (20110822) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6400 (20110822) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Hey Everyone,

I am chiming in from vacation - I am settling down for a nap!

Regarding sleep - and Tow can definitely expand on this.

I have suffered insomnia my whole life. When I was younger I blamed sweet tea -

I grew up in North Carolina. Then stress, then pregnancy, then back to stress.

In January of this year I experimented with a gluten-free diet as I was having a

few symptoms and everywhere I turned people kept mentioning gluten-free.

The week I went GF I didn't really notice anything so I had a slice of pizza and

a few bites of pasta. I was so sick that night I tossed and turned.

So I went totally GF and guess what? My insomnia went away! There were other

things that got better in my life too. I have just returned from a road trip

with my kids to NC and somewhere my gut is re-damaged - gluten hidden somewhere

or my carelessness in travel.

I am now on a real vacation - Block Island. I haven't slept well in a couple of

days.(Hence, the nap.)

As someone before spoke of the dairy issue and better sleep our diets impact

soooo much - including sleep.

On another note - the first year of my life was spent living with my mom and

brother in my dad's big Irish family's house while my dad was in VietNam. I

believe my sensitivity comes from a year of being loved and held (I was overfed

formula and porridge but that is another story) and to this day my extended

family loves that I was the center of their world that year (1965-66).

Good night,

Leigh Anne O'Connor, LLL, IBCLC

NYC

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

[Guest guest]

I worked with a mom once who had a baby who would only sleep 45 minutes at a time. we tried everything. He was growing, fat and happy and breastfed. Then I noticed that she drank an incredible amount of orange juice every day. Also ate oranges a lot. everything was about oranges every meal and every snack. I guessed she was eating the equivalent of over 20 oranges a day. not normal, right? She cut out oranges, her baby slept! she found she could have 1 glass of orange juice each day and he was fine. Who knows why? but it sure did the trick. Now I always ask if a mom eats a lot of one particular food... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: RE: Sleep Lady?To: Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 11:01 AM

It’s interesting, but besides being sleep deprived, my babies are very happy when held or fully attended to. The minute you leave their vicinity to do any real life tasks- that is when you can’t put them down. It is almost like I have not been fully with them since the second they are born. I am telling you, these past few days I look at this little guy cooing and playing with me and wonder why he is not falling apart!!!What do you base the food connection on? I would not call him at all colicky as long as I am holding or playing with him. My baby sitter said she can get him to play for about 15 minute stretches if she tells him she is there and not going anywhere in a gentle but forceful voice.

If they all did not turn out to be such fantastic straight A students with super personalities who eventually sleep I would be worried…. From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lynn Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 7:02 PMTo: Subject: Re: Sleep Lady? I'm sure, , as a professional and a mom of many, you've already tried all possible solutions, so please don't think I'm speaking to you, except to send my sympathy! For the moms I work with, though, if they do dairy elimination for a colicky baby, it is almost always the case that they mention not only a drastic reduction in fussiness, but that the baby is finally actually sleeping a decent stretch. I am pretty convinced (although has me thinking twice!) that pathological levels of poor sleep really are tied to some pathology somewhere else. In any case, the solution certainly isn't to cry it out! I never enjoy crying myself to sleep, and in case of illness or stress-based sleeplessness, a good cuddle can fix much! I wish

we as a people were as respectful of little people as we are of professional colleagues. It would go a long way. I also wish we were as respectful of mothers, and reliably provided the support they need. Slightly OT and definitely religious (you've been warned!): It was a wonderful thing for me to realize, during my formation as a Secular Franciscan sister, that my children are not only entrusted to me as a steward, but they are my brother and sister in Christ, as much as or more than any other member of the human family. I imagine there are parallels in many other faith and non-faith traditions. Reframing how children are viewed is one of my personal little missions, mostly because the nurses at my local hospital have a tendency to call babies "stubborn" and "lazy" and the moms parrot it back to me as a reason that their

babies do not nurse well. It's always nice when I can point out that it is nobody's "fault," just a set of problems to be solved in collaboration with the baby. Off my soapbox for the day Lynn SFO LLLL IBCLCMissouri, USA__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6400 (20110822) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Oh Leigh Ann this story brings me hope. I have struggled with insomnia since I was a child. tried everything. really. I've been gluten free for 4 weeks. I haven't noticed any changes yet, but I'm so hoping for something that miraculous. Thanks for your story! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- On Mon,

8/22/11, LeighAnne625@... wrote:Subject: Re: Sleep Lady?To: Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 11:19 AM

Hey Everyone,

I am chiming in from vacation - I am settling down for a nap!

Regarding sleep - and Tow can definitely expand on this.

I have suffered insomnia my whole life. When I was younger I blamed sweet tea - I grew up in North Carolina. Then stress, then pregnancy, then back to stress.

In January of this year I experimented with a gluten-free diet as I was having a few symptoms and everywhere I turned people kept mentioning gluten-free.

The week I went GF I didn't really notice anything so I had a slice of pizza and a few bites of pasta. I was so sick that night I tossed and turned.

So I went totally GF and guess what? My insomnia went away! There were other things that got better in my life too. I have just returned from a road trip with my kids to NC and somewhere my gut is re-damaged - gluten hidden somewhere or my carelessness in travel.

I am now on a real vacation - Block Island. I haven't slept well in a couple of days.(Hence, the nap.)

As someone before spoke of the dairy issue and better sleep our diets impact soooo much - including sleep.

On another note - the first year of my life was spent living with my mom and brother in my dad's big Irish family's house while my dad was in VietNam. I believe my sensitivity comes from a year of being loved and held (I was overfed formula and porridge but that is another story) and to this day my extended family loves that I was the center of their world that year (1965-66).

Good night,

Leigh Anne O'Connor, LLL, IBCLC

NYC

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

[Guest guest]

 

It’s interesting, but besides being sleep deprived, my babies are very happy when held or fully attended to.  The minute you leave their vicinity to do any real life tasks- that is when you can’t put them down. 

That's how my son was.  Going to bed at night meant lying down to read at 7pm and then I would fall asleep at maybe 9pm.  He never unlatched. 

What do you base the food connection on? Just experience and piles of anecdotes.  It was as if my son was constantly uncomfortable/stimulated by something internal, and as long as I was there, he could cope with it.  If I left, forget it.  And it was just a little too much to sleep through without lots and lots of help.  YMMV

Lynn 

[Guest guest]

few things...

everyone I'm sure could benefit from some additional education about sleep

but

The " sleep lady " advocates introducing one bottle a day and getting newborns

used to pacifiers and introducing bottles as soon as possible. Nomatter what

else she says she is NOT breastfeeding friendly and bound to destroy many a

breastfeeding relationships with her advice to new parents, sleep deprived. She

does not encourage co-sleeping with newborns.

that being said. I was sleep deprived severely with my newborn recently, so I

get it about the need for sleep. I had a client who got seizures b/c lack of

sleep, so she HAD to do something for her own safety.life. But most moms could

better benefit from advice about how to co-sleep safely and breastfeed, advice

about how to do both simultaneously more effectively.

bottles & nipple shields for newborns? I wont be sending any new moms to her

site. period.

>

>

> Subject: RE: Sleep Lady?

> To:

> Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 11:01 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> It’s interesting, but besides being sleep deprived, my babies are very

happy when held or fully attended to.  The minute you leave their vicinity to

do any real life tasks- that is when you can’t put them down.  It is almost

like I have not been fully with them since the second they are born.  I am

telling you, these past few days I look at this little guy cooing and playing

with me and wonder why he is not falling apart!!!What do you base the food

connection on?  I would not call him at all colicky as long as I am holding or

playing with him.  My baby sitter said she can get him to play for about 15

minute stretches if she tells him she is there and not going anywhere in a

gentle but forceful voice.  If they all did not turn out to be such fantastic

straight A students with super personalities who eventually sleep I would be

worried….  From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Lynn

> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 7:02 PM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Sleep Lady?    I'm sure, , as a professional

and a mom of many, you've already tried all possible solutions, so please don't

think I'm speaking to you, except to send my sympathy!    For the moms I work

with, though, if they do dairy elimination for a colicky baby, it is almost

always the case that they mention not only a drastic reduction in fussiness, but

that the baby is finally actually sleeping a decent stretch. I am pretty

convinced (although has me thinking twice!) that pathological levels of

poor sleep really are tied to some pathology somewhere else.  In any case, the

solution certainly isn't to cry it out!  I never enjoy crying myself to sleep,

and in case of illness or stress-based sleeplessness, a good cuddle can fix

much!  I wish we as a people were as respectful of little people as we are of

professional colleagues.  It would go a long way.  I also wish we were as

respectful of mothers, and

> reliably provided the support they need.  Slightly OT and definitely

religious (you've been warned!): It was a wonderful thing for me to realize,

during my formation as a Secular Franciscan sister, that my children are not

only entrusted to me as a steward, but they are my brother and sister in Christ,

as much as or more than any other member of the human family.  I imagine there

are parallels in many other faith and non-faith traditions.  Reframing how

children are viewed is one of my personal little missions, mostly because the

nurses at my local hospital have a tendency to call babies " stubborn " and " lazy "

and the moms parrot it back to me as a reason that their babies do not nurse

well.  It's always nice when I can point out that it is nobody's " fault, " just

a set of problems to be solved in collaboration with the baby.  Off my soapbox

for the day  Lynn SFO LLLL IBCLCMissouri, USA

>

> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature

database 6400 (20110822) __________

>

> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>

> http://www.eset.com

>