RE: Cross Post - low milk supply - need herbal info

[Guest guest]

Could this be a case of theca lutein cyst? The high testosterone levels can prevent milk supply from increasing nicely for several weeks postpartum. Mother would need to have testosterone level checked to know for sure. But if doc won't do it, continuing to pump can preserve the prolactin receptors and permit milk to be made more easily when the testosterone levels drop far enough.

Dee Kassing

Hi All,

I have a mom 38 yrs old, (permission to post) 12 days pp after planned c-section due to moms hip dysplasia. 1st baby. C-section went well – no issues, no heavy bleeding, and recovery is steady and good. Baby (39wks) has structural issues and t-t (t-t clipped and body-work under way) and was not BF well at all 1st couple days and chewed up mom’s nipples pretty badly. Mom started actively pumping on day 2 with Swing pump and got hosp. grade from me on day 5.

Mom is producing all of 30 mls total each pumping – pumping 10 times per 24 hours (with no more than 3 hours between any pumpings). Flanges fit well and pumping technique is good. Mom had a bout of thrush that was quickly resolved with miconozole. She never experienced and engorgement or that overly full sensation – breasts got fuller and warmer – but she should have milk coming out her proverbial ears right now and does not.

Here is the problem: Where is her milk? We are looking to rule out retained placenta and had blood work done 2 days ago. Sadly the person talking to mom on the phone refused to give her any serious details just telling mom the levels were ‘normal’. Mom managed to get her prolactin levels (totally fine), and Thyroid (1.76 in range of 0.3 – 3.0) and was told Iron was ‘normal’. Mom will be getting a copy of the lab results for me in the next couple days – whereupon I may have more questions for you. J

So – prolactin totally fine, and breasts totally fine (NO signs at all of hypoplasia), had breast changes during pregnancy and after…just minimal milk. Thyroid however seems to be on the low side of normal which may be fine for some but not for others. Mom is interested in knowing what herbs she can safely take while BF to help the Thyroid. She will be starting iron supplement (Hemaplex) today and probably changing out her pre-natal vitamins for a better quality brand as well. She is starting More Milk Special Blend today also. She will consider domperidone as a last resort.

Thoughts? This one is weird…she is not on any meds that would cause a problem, I will be interested in seeing what the blood work actually says and to 100% rule out retained placenta. Mom has NO history of any hormonal issues at all. I hope there is something in the blood work that will explain the problem – but if not…what is the problem?

Thank you in advance.

Warmly,

Jaye

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Is she drinking 10-12 glasses of fluid a day? Is she sleeping enough and eating fully balanced meals? Is she having proper pain relief?Having had 4 c/sections myself, I can state that exhaustion, pain after surgery and even a 5% dehydration definitely can affect milk supply. Pumping 10 times a day is probably tiring her out. Have her pump every 3-3 1/2 hours to get a restful nap in between. She'll get more out each time. Personally I would tell her to stop pumping and put the baby right to the breast. If her nipples still hurt, she can use a nipple shield for a few days. That skin to skin usually does wonders to get the milk flowing.

Gail Neuman RNC BSN CPHW, Notary Public

certified in high risk OB

childbirth/lactation educator & student nurse practitioner

NRP, AHA BLS for Healthcare & Heartsaver Family/Friends instructor

Perinatal Nurse Associates

Baby Your Way Midwifery Associates

801 N. Tustin Ave., Suite 305

Santa Ana, CA 92705

[Guest guest]

I'll be interested to see what you discover, Jaye. This sounds almost exactly like my dd, though she was only 30, not 38, and she could only pump 1/4 ounce total from both sides w/ a classic pumping 8 to 10 x per day.

Jan

Hi All,

I have a mom 38 yrs old, (permission to post) 12 days pp after planned c-section due to moms hip dysplasia. 1st baby. C-section went well – no issues, no heavy bleeding, and recovery is steady and good. Baby (39wks) has structural issues and t-t (t-t clipped and body-work under way) and was not BF well at all 1st couple days and chewed up mom’s nipples pretty badly. Mom started actively pumping on day 2 with Swing pump and got hosp. grade from me on day 5.

Mom is producing all of 30 mls total each pumping – pumping 10 times per 24 hours (with no more than 3 hours between any pumpings). Flanges fit well and pumping technique is good. Mom had a bout of thrush that was quickly resolved with miconozole. She never experienced and engorgement or that overly full sensation – breasts got fuller and warmer – but she should have milk coming out her proverbial ears right now and does not.

Here is the problem: Where is her milk? We are looking to rule out retained placenta and had blood work done 2 days ago. Sadly the person talking to mom on the phone refused to give her any serious details just telling mom the levels were ‘normal’. Mom managed to get her prolactin levels (totally fine), and Thyroid (1.76 in range of 0.3 – 3.0) and was told Iron was ‘normal’. Mom will be getting a copy of the lab results for me in the next couple days – whereupon I may have more questions for you. J

So – prolactin totally fine, and breasts totally fine (NO signs at all of hypoplasia), had breast changes during pregnancy and after…just minimal milk. Thyroid however seems to be on the low side of normal which may be fine for some but not for others. Mom is interested in knowing what herbs she can safely take while BF to help the Thyroid. She will be starting iron supplement (Hemaplex) today and probably changing out her pre-natal vitamins for a better quality brand as well. She is starting More Milk Special Blend today also. She will consider domperidone as a last resort.

Thoughts? This one is weird…she is not on any meds that would cause a problem, I will be interested in seeing what the blood work actually says and to 100% rule out retained placenta. Mom has NO history of any hormonal issues at all. I hope there is something in the blood work that will explain the problem – but if not…what is the problem?

Thank you in advance.

Warmly,

Jaye

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

0.0.01.14979783

[Guest guest]

Oh, and with Jill, the 1/4 ounce went all the way to 1/2 ounce w/ herbs, Reglan and Domperidone.

Jan

Hi All,

I have a mom 38 yrs old, (permission to post) 12 days pp after planned c-section due to moms hip dysplasia. 1st baby. C-section went well – no issues, no heavy bleeding, and recovery is steady and good. Baby (39wks) has structural issues and t-t (t-t clipped and body-work under way) and was not BF well at all 1st couple days and chewed up mom’s nipples pretty badly. Mom started actively pumping on day 2 with Swing pump and got hosp. grade from me on day 5.

Mom is producing all of 30 mls total each pumping – pumping 10 times per 24 hours (with no more than 3 hours between any pumpings). Flanges fit well and pumping technique is good. Mom had a bout of thrush that was quickly resolved with miconozole. She never experienced and engorgement or that overly full sensation – breasts got fuller and warmer – but she should have milk coming out her proverbial ears right now and does not.

Here is the problem: Where is her milk? We are looking to rule out retained placenta and had blood work done 2 days ago. Sadly the person talking to mom on the phone refused to give her any serious details just telling mom the levels were ‘normal’. Mom managed to get her prolactin levels (totally fine), and Thyroid (1.76 in range of 0.3 – 3.0) and was told Iron was ‘normal’. Mom will be getting a copy of the lab results for me in the next couple days – whereupon I may have more questions for you. J

So – prolactin totally fine, and breasts totally fine (NO signs at all of hypoplasia), had breast changes during pregnancy and after…just minimal milk. Thyroid however seems to be on the low side of normal which may be fine for some but not for others. Mom is interested in knowing what herbs she can safely take while BF to help the Thyroid. She will be starting iron supplement (Hemaplex) today and probably changing out her pre-natal vitamins for a better quality brand as well. She is starting More Milk Special Blend today also. She will consider domperidone as a last resort.

Thoughts? This one is weird…she is not on any meds that would cause a problem, I will be interested in seeing what the blood work actually says and to 100% rule out retained placenta. Mom has NO history of any hormonal issues at all. I hope there is something in the blood work that will explain the problem – but if not…what is the problem?

Thank you in advance.

Warmly,

Jaye

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

0.0.01.14979783

[Guest guest]

Could this be a case of theca lutein cyst? The high

testosterone levels can prevent milk supply from increasing nicely for several

weeks postpartum. Mother would need to have testosterone level checked to know

for sure. But if doc won't do it, continuing to pump can preserve the

prolactin receptors and permit milk to be made more easily when the

testosterone levels drop far enough.

Dee Kassing

Thank you Dee – I was

wondering about that too and talked to mom about it. (high testosterone) The

Doc ran a bunch of blood work but we are not sure if she ran testosterone

levels – she balked at running prolactin but finally did. Hopefully she

did run all the hormone levels…I should find out tomorrow.

Mom took baby to see my Bowen Practitioner (Judy) last night

– baby had an unbelievably tight floor of mouth that needed release. Judy

has been working on baby – seen her 3 times now) and is having excellent

results. Judy let me know that she evaluated mom as well and mom had super

tight pectoralis muscles, so she released those and we are hoping to see some

improvement with the supply from that. We have had that happen before –

breasts were actually congested due to overly tight pectoralis muscles…release

the muscles and the milk starts flowing.

Honestly, I just have a feeling there is a zebra in this mix…I

pray I am wrong…

Thank you!

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Is she drinking 10-12 glasses of fluid a day? Is she

sleeping enough and eating fully balanced meals? Is she having proper pain relief?Having

had 4 c/sections myself, I can state that exhaustion, pain after surgery and

even a 5% dehydration definitely can affect milk supply. Pumping 10 times a day

is probably tiring her out. Have her pump every 3-3 1/2 hours to get a restful

nap in between. She'll get more out each time. Personally I would tell her to

stop pumping and put the baby right to the breast. If her nipples still hurt,

she can use a nipple shield for a few days. That skin to skin usually does

wonders to get the milk flowing.

Jaye here:

Today mom is 13 days pp. She is drinking plenty,

eating healthy and well, and she is sleeping well too. She has a nice

pumping schedule worked out to where she gets plenty of rest and sleep –

she has an amazing partner who takes very good care of her. She is only

taking ibuprofen now because her pain is nearly non-existent.

Respectfully – under no circumstances would I tell

mom in this case to stop pumping and put baby to breast. Baby has a

seriously compromised suck and is not able to get anything close to a decent

milk transfer. If mom only nursed, the skin to skin would not help to

protect what little supply mom already has. Her supply would absolutely

drop like a rock. We even used an SNS at breast – baby is unable to

form a decent seal and create enough suction to get milk from the SNS…even

with being given boluses. Baby is finally able to nurse without causing

mom discomfort – it took a frenotomy and body work to get her there, but

her tongue is still restricted by floor of the mouth muscles. Using

a nipple shield in this case would not be appropriate in my opinion because

baby can and will latch. She doesn’t need it. But she is

currently unable to nurse well enough to protect moms supply.

I performed a suck evaluation and she has a way to go

before her suck is at 100%. As it is at our first visit baby was unable

to transfer any milk at all, and presented with a t-t and extremely tight

muscles – tongue function was very, very poor. Now, she is at least

50% improved but tongue function is still not good enough but she is getting

there and making progress. I hope with her visit last night to her Bowen

Practitioner that will be improved more today. J

In this case – I am really looking for information

on herbs for thyroid support that are safe/compatible with breastfeeding.

Mom does have some other symptoms of low thyroid and she is interested in

seeing if the herbal support would be of help to her.

Thank you for the input!

Warmly,

Jaye

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

These cysts are discussed in Marasco and West book... " Making More Milk " .  These cysts are just as much of a problem as PCOS.Shari Silady

 

Could this be a case of theca lutein cyst?  The high testosterone levels can prevent milk supply from increasing nicely for several weeks postpartum. Mother would need to have testosterone level checked to know for sure.  But if doc won't do it, continuing to pump can preserve the prolactin receptors and permit milk to be made more easily when the testosterone levels drop far enough.

    Dee Kassing 

Hi All,

 

I have a mom 38 yrs old, (permission to post) 12 days pp after planned c-section due to moms hip dysplasia.  1st baby.  C-section went well – no issues, no heavy bleeding, and recovery is steady and good.  Baby (39wks) has structural issues and t-t (t-t clipped and body-work under way) and was not BF well at all 1st couple days and chewed up mom’s nipples pretty badly.  Mom started actively pumping on day 2 with Swing pump and got hosp. grade from me on day 5.

 

Mom is producing all of 30 mls total each pumping – pumping 10 times per 24 hours (with no more than 3 hours between any pumpings).  Flanges fit well and pumping technique is good.  Mom had a bout of thrush that was quickly resolved with miconozole.  She never experienced and engorgement or that overly full sensation – breasts got fuller and warmer – but she should have milk coming out her proverbial ears right now and does not.

 

Here is the problem:  Where is her milk?  We are looking to rule out retained placenta and had blood work done 2 days ago.  Sadly the person talking to mom on the phone refused to give her any serious details just telling mom the levels were ‘normal’.  Mom managed to get her prolactin levels (totally fine), and Thyroid (1.76 in range of 0.3 – 3.0) and was told Iron was ‘normal’.  Mom will be getting a copy of the lab results for me in the next couple days – whereupon I may have more questions for you.  J

 

So – prolactin totally fine, and breasts totally fine (NO signs at all of hypoplasia), had breast changes during pregnancy and after…just minimal milk.  Thyroid however seems to be on the low side of normal which may be fine for some but not for others.  Mom is interested in knowing what herbs she can safely take while BF to help the Thyroid.  She will be starting iron supplement (Hemaplex) today and probably changing out her pre-natal vitamins for a better quality brand as well.  She is starting More Milk Special Blend today also.  She will consider domperidone as a last resort.

 

Thoughts?  This one is weird…she is not on any meds that would cause a problem, I will be interested in seeing what the blood work actually says and to 100% rule out retained placenta.  Mom has NO history of any hormonal issues at all.  I hope there is something in the blood work that will explain the problem – but if not…what is the problem?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Warmly,

Jaye

 

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~ Shari Silady ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Mothers have as powerful an influence over the welfare of future generations as all other earthly causes combined. "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

Oh Jan, that is simply the Child of Lactation Consultant or family of nursing curse.  Nothing medical there…I have had 2 unknown non-breastfeeders- and I think if you would take a poll among grandchildren of LC’s you would find a large % of major problems!  Nothing scientific there! Billowitz, IBCLCIsrael From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of ibclc@...Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 4:43 PMTo: Subject: Re: Cross Post - low milk supply - need herbal info I'll be interested to see what you discover, Jaye. This sounds almost exactly like my dd, though she was only 30, not 38, and she could only pump 1/4 ounce total from both sides w/ a classic pumping 8 to 10 x per day. Jan Hi All,I have a mom 38 yrs old, (permission to post) 12 days pp after planned c-section due to moms hip dysplasia. 1st baby. C-section went well – no issues, no heavy bleeding, and recovery is steady and good. Baby (39wks) has structural issues and t-t (t-t clipped and body-work under way) and was not BF well at all 1st couple days and chewed up mom’s nipples pretty badly. Mom started actively pumping on day 2 with Swing pump and got hosp. grade from me on day 5.Mom is producing all of 30 mls total each pumping – pumping 10 times per 24 hours (with no more than 3 hours between any pumpings). Flanges fit well and pumping technique is good. Mom had a bout of thrush that was quickly resolved with miconozole. She never experienced and engorgement or that overly full sensation – breasts got fuller and warmer – but she should have milk coming out her proverbial ears right now and does not.Here is the problem: Where is her milk? We are looking to rule out retained placenta and had blood work done 2 days ago. Sadly the person talking to mom on the phone refused to give her any serious details just telling mom the levels were ‘normal’. Mom managed to get her prolactin levels (totally fine), and Thyroid (1.76 in range of 0.3 – 3.0) and was told Iron was ‘normal’. Mom will be getting a copy of the lab results for me in the next couple days – whereupon I may have more questions for you. JSo – prolactin totally fine, and breasts totally fine (NO signs at all of hypoplasia), had breast changes during pregnancy and after…just minimal milk. Thyroid however seems to be on the low side of normal which may be fine for some but not for others. Mom is interested in knowing what herbs she can safely take while BF to help the Thyroid. She will be starting iron supplement (Hemaplex) today and probably changing out her pre-natal vitamins for a better quality brand as well. She is starting More Milk Special Blend today also. She will consider domperidone as a last resort.Thoughts? This one is weird…she is not on any meds that would cause a problem, I will be interested in seeing what the blood work actually says and to 100% rule out retained placenta. Mom has NO history of any hormonal issues at all. I hope there is something in the blood work that will explain the problem – but if not…what is the problem?Thank you in advance.Warmly,JayeJaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIMBreastfeeding NetworkSacramento, CAwww.breastfeedingnetwork.net0.0.01.14979783 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6389 (20110818) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

I'll be interested to see what you discover, Jaye. This

sounds almost

exactly like my dd, though she was only 30, not 38, and she could only pump

1/4 ounce total from both sides w/ a classic pumping 8 to 10 x per day.

Jan

Got some very interesting news from my client with the low

supply and no obvious reasons.

Wed. evening she took baby to her Bowen appt and my Bowen Practioner

released moms pectoralis muscles as they were extremely tight. Mom had also

started taking More Milk Special Blend. Over night moms supply nearly doubled.

She was only getting 25-35 cc now getting 50 – 70.

I figure we have a couple possibilities: The pectoralis

release helped, the herbs helped, moms is one of those whose supplies piddle in

over a two wk time period after a c-section…or maybe all of the above. I

have had moms have complete resolution of plugs and an increase in supply with

pectoralis release so I know that can definitely help. And I have seen the

herbs work in 24 hrs or less too…She isn’t at 100% full ebm

feedings yet – but this is a nice turnaround and we are very hopeful!

Thanks everyone!

Warmly,

Jaye

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

I hear such interesting things about what your Bowen practitioners can do. Unfortunately, I looked on their website and there is only one practitioner listed for the St. Louis area. I contacted her and she does not work on babies.

Dee KassingCould this be a case of theca lutein cyst? The high testosterone levels can prevent milk supply from increasing nicely for several weeks postpartum. Mother would need to have testosterone level checked to know for sure. But if doc won't do it, continuing to pump can preserve the prolactin receptors and permit milk to be made more easily when the testosterone levels drop far enough.Dee Kassing

Thank you Dee – I was wondering about that too and talked to mom about it. (high testosterone) The Doc ran a bunch of blood work but we are not sure if she ran testosterone levels – she balked at running prolactin but finally did. Hopefully she did run all the hormone levels…I should find out tomorrow.

Mom took baby to see my Bowen Practitioner (Judy) last night – baby had an unbelievably tight floor of mouth that needed release. Judy has been working on baby – seen her 3 times now) and is having excellent results. Judy let me know that she evaluated mom as well and mom had super tight pectoralis muscles, so she released those and we are hoping to see some improvement with the supply from that. We have had that happen before – breasts were actually congested due to overly tight pectoralis muscles…release the muscles and the milk starts flowing.

Honestly, I just have a feeling there is a zebra in this mix…I pray I am wrong…

Thank you!

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

I see the same thing. I haven't any grandchildren of my own yet, but many of my friends do, and I am amazed at how many grandbabies of IBCLCs and LLLLs can't breastfeed well, or their mamas don't make enough milk. And of course, it is heartbreaking for the grandma who dreamed of watching her grandchildren breastfeed.

Dee KassingOh Jan, that is simply the Child of Lactation Consultant or family of nursing curse. Nothing medical there…I have had 2 unknown non-breastfeeders- and I think if you would take a poll among grandchildren of LC’s you would find a large % of major problems! Nothing scientific there!

Billowitz, IBCLC

Israel

On Behalf Of ibclc@...

I'll be interested to see what you discover, Jaye. This sounds almost exactly like my dd, though she was only 30, not 38, and she could only pump 1/4 ounce total from both sides w/ a classic pumping 8 to 10 x per day.

Jan

Hi All,

I have a mom 38 yrs old, (permission to post) 12 days pp after planned c-section due to moms hip dysplasia. 1st baby. C-section went well – no issues, no heavy bleeding, and recovery is steady and good. Baby (39wks) has structural issues and t-t (t-t clipped and body-work under way) and was not BF well at all 1st couple days and chewed up mom’s nipples pretty badly. Mom started actively pumping on day 2 with Swing pump and got hosp. grade from me on day 5.

Mom is producing all of 30 mls total each pumping – pumping 10 times per 24 hours (with no more than 3 hours between any pumpings). Flanges fit well and pumping technique is good. Mom had a bout of thrush that was quickly resolved with miconozole. She never experienced and engorgement or that overly full sensation – breasts got fuller and warmer – but she should have milk coming out her proverbial ears right now and does not.

Here is the problem: Where is her milk? We are looking to rule out retained placenta and had blood work done 2 days ago. Sadly the person talking to mom on the phone refused to give her any serious details just telling mom the levels were ‘normal’. Mom managed to get her prolactin levels (totally fine), and Thyroid (1.76 in range of 0.3 – 3.0) and was told Iron was ‘normal’. Mom will be getting a copy of the lab results for me in the next couple days – whereupon I may have more questions for you. J

So – prolactin totally fine, and breasts totally fine (NO signs at all of hypoplasia), had breast changes during pregnancy and after…just minimal milk. Thyroid however seems to be on the low side of normal which may be fine for some but not for others. Mom is interested in knowing what herbs she can safely take while BF to help the Thyroid. She will be starting iron supplement (Hemaplex) today and probably changing out her pre-natal vitamins for a better quality brand as well. She is starting More Milk Special Blend today also. She will consider domperidone as a last resort.

Thoughts? This one is weird…she is not on any meds that would cause a problem, I will be interested in seeing what the blood work actually says and to 100% rule out retained placenta. Mom has NO history of any hormonal issues at all. I hope there is something in the blood work that will explain the problem – but if not…what is the problem?

Thank you in advance.

Warmly,

Jaye

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

0.0.01.14979783

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6389 (20110818) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Re: 10-12 glasses of fluid for milk suppy, I always am careful to suggest that

Mom drinks to thirst rather than give an amount of fluid intake. Overhydration

can lead to lowered supply (see references at end of article:

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mom/mom-calories-fluids.html#fluids). On a

personal note, I happen to drink very little compared to most and was able to

make tons of milk.

Ellen

Ellen Rubin, MA, IBCLC, LLLL

>

> Is she drinking 10-12 glasses of fluid a day? Is she sleeping enough and

> eating fully balanced meals? Is she having proper pain relief?Having had 4

> c/sections myself, I can state that exhaustion, pain after surgery and even

> a 5% dehydration definitely can affect milk supply. Pumping 10 times a day

> is probably tiring her out. Have her pump every 3-3 1/2 hours to get a

> restful nap in between. She'll get more out each time. Personally I would

> tell her to stop pumping and put the baby right to the breast. If her

> nipples still hurt, she can use a nipple shield for a few days. That skin to

> skin usually does wonders to get the milk flowing.

>

>

>

> Jaye here:

>

>

>

> Today mom is 13 days pp. She is drinking plenty, eating healthy and well,

> and she is sleeping well too. She has a nice pumping schedule worked out to

> where she gets plenty of rest and sleep - she has an amazing partner who

> takes very good care of her. She is only taking ibuprofen now because her

> pain is nearly non-existent.

>

>

>

> Respectfully - under no circumstances would I tell mom in this case to stop

> pumping and put baby to breast. Baby has a seriously compromised suck and

> is not able to get anything close to a decent milk transfer. If mom only

> nursed, the skin to skin would not help to protect what little supply mom

> already has. Her supply would absolutely drop like a rock. We even used an

> SNS at breast - baby is unable to form a decent seal and create enough

> suction to get milk from the SNS.even with being given boluses. Baby is

> finally able to nurse without causing mom discomfort - it took a frenotomy

> and body work to get her there, but her tongue is still restricted by floor

> of the mouth muscles. Using a nipple shield in this case would not be

> appropriate in my opinion because baby can and will latch. She doesn't need

> it. But she is currently unable to nurse well enough to protect moms

> supply.

>

>

>

> I performed a suck evaluation and she has a way to go before her suck is at

> 100%. As it is at our first visit baby was unable to transfer any milk at

> all, and presented with a t-t and extremely tight muscles - tongue function

> was very, very poor. Now, she is at least 50% improved but tongue function

> is still not good enough but she is getting there and making progress. I

> hope with her visit last night to her Bowen Practitioner that will be

> improved more today. :-)

>

>

>

> In this case - I am really looking for information on herbs for thyroid

> support that are safe/compatible with breastfeeding. Mom does have some

> other symptoms of low thyroid and she is interested in seeing if the herbal

> support would be of help to her.

>

>

>

> Thank you for the input!

>

> Warmly,

>

> Jaye

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

>

> Breastfeeding Network

>

> Sacramento, CA

>

> www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, whenever a mom tells me that she is drinking alot, I tell her the same think as you, Ellen. This information has been around for a very long time. It seems that telling a mom to drink more has been our doctors and some nurses first suggestion for low milk supply for at least the 18 years that I used them and they still do it. (Although a few ped's have listened to me and stopped telling them that.) Jaye, I found in "Making More Milk", the following; Don't take Fenugreek if you have low thyroid, Red clover blossoms are good for increasing T3 in ewes but no info in humans, but rather than get into too much that is not my field, or putting the things from their book online without permission, perhaps Marasco, West or Tow

will answer to the list or in private (of course, maybe they already have.) Good luck, let us know what happens. To: Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 8:33 AMSubject: Re: Cross Post - low milk supply - need herbal info

Re: 10-12 glasses of fluid for milk suppy, I always am careful to suggest that Mom drinks to thirst rather than give an amount of fluid intake. Overhydration can lead to lowered supply (see references at end of article: http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mom/mom-calories-fluids.html#fluids). On a personal note, I happen to drink very little compared to most and was able to make tons of milk.

Ellen

Ellen Rubin, MA, IBCLC, LLLL

>

> Is she drinking 10-12 glasses of fluid a day? Is she sleeping enough and

> eating fully balanced meals? Is she having proper pain relief?Having had 4

> c/sections myself, I can state that exhaustion, pain after surgery and even

> a 5% dehydration definitely can affect milk supply. Pumping 10 times a day

> is probably tiring her out. Have her pump every 3-3 1/2 hours to get a

> restful nap in between. She'll get more out each time. Personally I would

> tell her to stop pumping and put the baby right to the breast. If her

> nipples still hurt, she can use a nipple shield for a few days. That skin to

> skin usually does wonders to get the milk flowing.

>

>

>

> Jaye here:

>

>

>

> Today mom is 13 days pp. She is drinking plenty, eating healthy and well,

> and she is sleeping well too. She has a nice pumping schedule worked out to

> where she gets plenty of rest and sleep - she has an amazing partner who

> takes very good care of her. She is only taking ibuprofen now because her

> pain is nearly non-existent.

>

>

>

> Respectfully - under no circumstances would I tell mom in this case to stop

> pumping and put baby to breast. Baby has a seriously compromised suck and

> is not able to get anything close to a decent milk transfer. If mom only

> nursed, the skin to skin would not help to protect what little supply mom

> already has. Her supply would absolutely drop like a rock. We even used an

> SNS at breast - baby is unable to form a decent seal and create enough

> suction to get milk from the SNS.even with being given boluses. Baby is

> finally able to nurse without causing mom discomfort - it took a frenotomy

> and body work to get her there, but her tongue is still restricted by floor

> of the mouth muscles. Using a nipple shield in this case would not be

> appropriate in my opinion because baby can and will latch. She doesn't need

> it. But she is currently unable to nurse well enough to protect moms

> supply.

>

>

>

> I performed a suck evaluation and she has a way to go before her suck is at

> 100%. As it is at our first visit baby was unable to transfer any milk at

> all, and presented with a t-t and extremely tight muscles - tongue function

> was very, very poor. Now, she is at least 50% improved but tongue function

> is still not good enough but she is getting there and making progress. I

> hope with her visit last night to her Bowen Practitioner that will be

> improved more today. :-)

>

>

>

> In this case - I am really looking for information on herbs for thyroid

> support that are safe/compatible with breastfeeding. Mom does have some

> other symptoms of low thyroid and she is interested in seeing if the herbal

> support would be of help to her.

>

>

>

> Thank you for the input!

>

> Warmly,

>

> Jaye

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

>

> Breastfeeding Network

>

> Sacramento, CA

>

> www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

>