Re: Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideas

[Guest guest]

Good for you for sticking to your guns. I am appalled at how people/organizations want to take advantage of us and back-stabbing abounds. I feel like I have to constantly be on my toes. And all I ever wanted to do is simply help moms and babies breastfeed! Sigh... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook:

www.facebook.com/thesecond9months--- Subject: Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideasTo: Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2011, 7:30 PM

Hey Everyone, I had to share:I got a phone call this evening from a woman who wanted me to teach her in 3 hours how to be a lactation consultant. She is a baby nurse and since she trained in 3 days to be a baby nurse and she helps the moms with breastfeeding she saw that I teach classes. When I told her it takes years to become an IBCLC she was shocked! I asked if she belonged to NYLCA our local ILCA affiliate she said "no." It was pretty comical - she kept asking about a short course. I said she could go to Massachusetts and take a one week course to be a counselor but that she would not be a LACTATION CONSULTANT she was pretty upset.On another note, I have been teaching at one location here in Manhattan and as they are growing and have new management they wanted all of their teachers to sign a contract which states that any private clients that come out of the classes I teach would have to be

filtered through them so that they could mark it up and bill them and pay me my fee. When I told them that that was not acceptable as the parents need to be able to contact me if they are in need of my services and that the receptionists cannot triage new moms and that I give them a Superbill as a health care professional they said it was a deal breaker. It turns out that in the state of New York Fee Splitting is illegal.leighanne625@...www.leighanneoconnor.com

[Guest guest]

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Leigh Anne wrote>I got a phone call this evening from a woman who wanted me to teach her in 3 hours how to be a lactation consultant. 

She

is a baby nurse and since she trained in 3 days to be a baby nurse and she helps the moms with breastfeeding she saw that I teach classes. When

I told her it takes years to become an IBCLC she was shocked! I asked if she belonged to NYLCA our local ILCA affiliate she said " no. " It was pretty comical - she kept asking about a short course. I said she could go to Massachusetts and take a one week course to be a counselor but that she would not be a LACTATION CONSULTANT she was pretty upset.>Well good for you!Becoming an IBCLC is not for wimps :)On a related note, you may remember me sharing the letter I formulated to send to ladies who wanted to pick my brains so that they could set up shop next door to me. Well I received one reply straight away - she said she had already talked to another local IBCLC and had all her questions answered. There has been no reply at all from the other people who had contacted me. I guess the idea of spending money to pay for my time scared them off.

warmly, normaNorma Ritter, IBCLC, RLCBreastfeeding Matters in the Capital Regionwww.NormaRitter.comJoin us on Facebook for the latest birthing and breastfeeding news and views:

http://tinyurl.com/BMCRonFB

[Guest guest]

You have to have hours, supervised. But that means only that she had some sort of a job or volunteer position that gave her access to breastfeeding moms and babies. She does not have to be supervised by an IBCLC. For example, I work with a pediatric group. If I had to document my hours for the exam, I would say that my supervisor was the head pediatrician. There is no other IBCLC on staff.

Jan

Dear ladies:I have a question for you. I know of someone who is sitting for the exams this summer. She never attends any of the NYLCA meetings and I know of NO lactation consultant who has been her mentor. We are all trying to figure out how she is getting her training. Don't you have to have some supervised hours? by someone sometime?Best regards, E. Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

[Guest guest]

Could she be a LLL Leader? That's where my 2000 hours came from (500 per year as a Leader). , IBCLC, LLLL, DONA-Trained DoulaMother Nature Birth & Lactationhttp://www.mothernaturelactation.comStatesville, NC

You have to have hours, supervised. But that means only that she had some sort of a job or volunteer position that gave her access to breastfeeding moms and babies. She does not have to be supervised by an IBCLC. For example, I work with a pediatric group. If I had to document my hours for the exam, I would say that my supervisor was the head pediatrician. There is no other IBCLC on staff.

Jan

Dear ladies:I have a question for you. I know of someone who is sitting for the exams this summer. She never attends any of the NYLCA meetings and I know of NO lactation consultant who has been her mentor. We are all trying to figure out how she is getting her training. Don't you have to have some supervised hours? by someone sometime?Best regards, E. Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

[Guest guest]

I got my hours from being a LLL Leader, too. Perhaps my local colleagues were in the same boat as you... I kept getting phone calls asking me "How on earth are you qualified to sit for the exam"? Definitely more tactful to ask here!I assured them that IBCLE would not have approved of my application had I not been qualified... I didn't really feel like explaining after being questioned like that.Maybe she is waiting for right mentor... I am lucky enough to have all of you!! Laurean, IBCLCEl Centro, CA

I have a question for you. I know of someone who is sitting for the exams this summer. She never attends any of the NYLCA meetings and I know of NO lactation consultant who has been her mentor. We are all trying to figure out how she is getting her training. Don't you have to have some supervised hours? by someone sometime?

Best regards,

E. Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

[Guest guest]

People actually phoned you and asked you??Wow.Lynn in MO

 

I got my hours from being a LLL Leader, too.  Perhaps my local colleagues were in the same boat as you... I kept getting phone calls asking me " How on earth are you qualified to sit for the exam " ?  Definitely more tactful to ask here!

I assured them that IBCLE would not have approved of my application had I not been qualified... I didn't really feel like explaining after being questioned like that.Maybe she is waiting for right mentor... I am lucky enough to have all of you!!

Laurean, IBCLCEl Centro, CA

I have a question for you. I know of someone who is sitting for the exams this summer. She never attends any of the NYLCA meetings and I know of NO lactation consultant who has been her mentor. We are all trying to figure out how she is getting her training. Don't you have to have some supervised hours? by someone sometime?

Best regards,

E. Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

[Guest guest]

,The person in question is not an LLL Leader.Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 20:21:50 -0400To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideas Let me make it clear that I consider La Leche League to be rather good training for many aspects of being an IBCLC. I would not worry about someone coming into the profession via La Leche League. My fear is that the sign off person may be the same pediatrician who is on the train your 8 week old to sleep 12 hours kick. Anyway, my approach has been to invite this person into the fold via the events that NYLCA sponsors. sburgernutr@...

[Guest guest]

the hours have to be supervised if it's pathway 3. Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months--- From: popikins

Subject: Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideasTo: Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 7:52 PM

Sincere question. I don't think your hours need to be 'supervised' meaning the candidate is under observation (unless they fall under the preceptor pathway). What I do think it means is that there needs to be someone who can 'attest' to the candidates earning of clinical hours, doesn't necessarily mean they have been 'followed'. Is that right?

This is a huge problem it really is. I think every candidate should need to demonstrate earning the hours. I know there are people in my area who have 'embelished' their clinical hours and it annoys me like I imagine it annoys many of you!

>

> Dear ladies:

>

> I have a question for you. I know of someone who is sitting for the exams this summer. She never attends any of the NYLCA meetings and I know of NO lactation consultant who has been her mentor. We are all trying to figure out how she is getting her training. Don't you have to have some supervised hours? by someone sometime?

>

> Best regards,

> E. Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know.  The thing is when one does student hours with no supervision how does one learn??I use to work in a hospital.  When I had students whether nursing students or LC students, I spent lots of time teaching and explaining why we did what we did with a particular mombaby.  It always made for a long day.  Also you don't see as many mombabies because of all the teaching slowing you down.

The mom's who have been helped by this student call her a Lactation Consultant.  This is not rightShari

 

can these people be reported to iblce? Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC

Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines:  http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook:  www.facebook.com/thesecond9months

From: popikins

Subject: Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideasTo:

Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 7:52 PM

 

Sincere question. I don't think your hours need to be 'supervised' meaning the candidate is under observation (unless they fall under the preceptor pathway). What I do think it means is that there needs to be someone who can 'attest' to the candidates earning of clinical hours, doesn't necessarily mean they have been 'followed'. Is that right?

This is a huge problem it really is. I think every candidate should need to demonstrate earning the hours. I know there are people in my area who have 'embelished' their clinical hours and it annoys me like I imagine it annoys many of you!

>

> Dear ladies:

>

> I have a question for you. I know of someone who is sitting for the exams this summer. She never attends any of the NYLCA meetings and I know of NO lactation consultant who has been her mentor. We are all trying to figure out how she is getting her training. Don't you have to have some supervised hours? by someone sometime?

>

> Best regards,

> E. Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

>

-- ~~~~~~~~~~ Shari Silady ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Mothers have as powerful an influence over the welfare of future generations as all other earthly causes combined. "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- ~~~~~~~~~~ Shari Silady ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Mothers have as powerful an influence over the welfare of future generations as all other earthly causes combined. "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

For what it is worth, we in LEC have talked to IBLCE until we are blue in the face about this very issue -- expressed perfectly the way has written it here. And we have gotten no place. Just as IBLCE doesn't require people to get their lactation education before they get their clinical experience, they don't require even a week long comprehensive lactation course. A person can get their hours doing conferences and the occasional home study here and there. It will be harder now, getting 90 hours without doing at least a 45 hour week long program, but certainly not impossible.

Jan

Here's a HUGE problem as I see it. The IBLCE does not require the didactic education 'prior' to earning clinical hours. So feasible you could be let's say, a postpartum nurse for 10 years. And one day you decide that you want to be an IBCLC. So, 3 weeks before you are scheduled to sit the exam, you go take a class on lactation. And you sit an exam, and use the previous 3 years of your employment work as your clinical hours. All the while the candidate may have been mismanaging breastfeeding simply because they could use their clinical hours prior to didactic.What other profession permits this? Say I want to be a hairdresser (this requires a license in my state). Do you think it would qualify for me to count the previous 3 years I spent cutting my neighbors hair as my practicum 'before' I take any coursework? Of course not, that's silly (and wreckless). Now you have to have all of the requirements completed before you can even submit to sit the exam, but still, it's really backwards to allow candidates to earn hours 'previous' to any education! (They used to allow candidates to apply for exam without having met all of the criteria as long as it would be met by exam date). I firmly believe that moms and babies deserve support from people who set the intention to provide them with qualified support, and get their education, and then earn their hours under supervision.>> Had to jump in with my 2 cents. Some LLLL's learn on the job and go on to successfully become IBCLC's. Unless you are qualifying under Pathway 3 as someone mentioned before, you do not need to be mentored and can learn as you go to take the exam when you're comfortable and have enough hours "working" with moms and babes. This does not mean that you are highly qualified with the highest level of expertise, but that you know when to call it a day and refer to someone who knows more than you do. We learn by doing and calling on others to answer our questions when needed. Maybe you're not talking about LLLL's but this is how many qualify to take the IBLCE and most do it quite well. You better have your ducks in a row, however, if you are audited and they find out you don't, then you're up the creek as they say!!> > Lastly, it is my understanding that the IBLCE is an entry level exam and not the "Ph.D" for IBCLC's.> > Beals (who does not condone handing out incorrect advise to nursing moms...Have a conscience and know your STUFF!!)>

[Guest guest]

Had to jump in with my 2 cents. Some LLLL's learn on the job and go on to successfully become IBCLC's. Unless you are qualifying under Pathway 3 as someone mentioned before, you do not need to be mentored and can learn as you go to take the exam when you're comfortable and have enough hours "working" with moms and babes. This does not mean that you are highly qualified with the highest level of expertise, but that you know when to call it a day and refer to someone who knows more than you do. We learn by doing and calling on others to answer our questions when needed. Maybe you're not talking about LLLL's but this is how many qualify to take the IBLCE and most do it quite well. You better have your ducks in a row, however, if you are audited and they find out you don't, then you're up the creek as they say!!

Lastly, it is my understanding that the IBLCE is an entry level exam and not the "Ph.D" for IBCLC's.

Beals (who does not condone handing out incorrect advise to nursing moms...Have a conscience and know your STUFF!!)

[Guest guest]

i would call iblce if I were you... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months--- Subject: Re:

Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideasTo: Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 11:00 PM

I don't know. The thing is when one does student hours with no supervision how does one learn??I use to work in a hospital. When I had students whether nursing students or LC students, I spent lots of time teaching and explaining why we did what we did with a particular mombaby. It always made for a long day. Also you don't see as many mombabies because of all the teaching slowing you down.

The mom's who have been helped by this student call her a Lactation Consultant. This is not rightShari

can these people be reported to iblce? Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC

Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months

From: popikins

Subject: Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideasTo:

Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 7:52 PM

Sincere question. I don't think your hours need to be 'supervised' meaning the candidate is under observation (unless they fall under the preceptor pathway). What I do think it means is that there needs to be someone who can 'attest' to the candidates earning of clinical hours, doesn't necessarily mean they have been 'followed'. Is that right?

This is a huge problem it really is. I think every candidate should need to demonstrate earning the hours. I know there are people in my area who have 'embelished' their clinical hours and it annoys me like I imagine it annoys many of you!

>

> Dear ladies:

>

> I have a question for you. I know of someone who is sitting for the exams this summer. She never attends any of the NYLCA meetings and I know of NO lactation consultant who has been her mentor. We are all trying to figure out how she is getting her training. Don't you have to have some supervised hours? by someone sometime?

>

> Best regards,

> E. Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

>

-- ~~~~~~~~~~ Shari Silady ~~~~~~~~~~~~~"Mothers have as powerful an influence over the welfare of future generations as all other earthly causes combined."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- ~~~~~~~~~~ Shari Silady ~~~~~~~~~~~~~"Mothers have as powerful an influence over the welfare of future generations as all other earthly causes combined."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

Hello-

Thoughts I'd add a few thoughts from someone taking the exam this summer. Hopefully you all won't flame me:>)

I have my clinical hours through LLL and have over 220 hours in lactation education BTW

..

I feel like I have enough to help with the basics of breastfeeding and common problems- now anything abnormal my confidence starts dwindling. I admit this...but I'm also trying to find experience. I may pass this exam this summer but will I be ready to run with it- not at all. I know "in theory" how abnormal things may appear and how to "in theory" deal with them but real world things don't also equal in theory scenarios and vice versa.

I really realized this on Tuesday when a good friend had asked me to be at her c-section delivery. I had helped her with her birth plan and the importance of skin to skin after delivery and the first breastfeed within the hour which went off without a hitch (she was well-versed). Though after that hour things for mom went bad and I found myself in a position where baby was rooting and mom wanted to nurse but was physically so out of it and asked me to latch baby and help with a breastfeed again. The nurses had a real hands off approach and wanted to give baby a bath while she was exhibiting pre-feeding cues heavily. Now I was at this delivery because we are close friends and mom was adamant to breastfeed. So I was working with a heavily drugged mom and a new baby. I did get them to have another feed where then baby went into a deep sleep for a few hours and then things became normal baby waking,feeding etc..

As I went home I was so tense and questioning if I did all things right or did I miss something.

This isn't something I take lightly. Yes this might have been my friend but I was in this case responsible for thier inital success. I found myself since Tuesday questioning if I know enough and I know that although I might pass this exam I need more experience.

Do I stop and throw in the towel knowing that in my area the hospital-based IBCLCs (their is no PP-IBCLC) pass out breast shields when they can't spend the extra time or if things aren't going right? Do I stop when I hear the night nurse tell my friend that colostrum doesn't fill up a baby and only the bottle feed babies seem to stop acting hungry?

Yes...I need more experience till I feel like I can help every mom. Finding that experience when you're a non-RN is tough...LLL provides the normal scenarios and alot of the later nursing scenarios but not the first few day issues.

I'm eager to learn and can't get enough! I also can admit my shortcomings and in the quest for this certification have found out the individuals in my state that can deal with the more complicated cases so I know where to send these moms instead of leaving them dangling.

I find myself often asking myself if this is dumb...will I ever know enough?

Thanks for the rambling!

Loos

P.S. Mom was all alone first night as hubby is in Mexico she used no pacifiers, no bottles and baby has surpassed the wet diapers (though I know mother had high fluids so alot of excess fluids from IV was shed)/and passed 3 mec as of 30 hours.

Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideas

Here's a HUGE problem as I see it. The IBLCE does not require the didactic education 'prior' to earning clinical hours. So feasible you could be let's say, a postpartum nurse for 10 years. And one day you decide that you want to be an IBCLC. So, 3 weeks before you are scheduled to sit the exam, you go take a class on lactation. And you sit an exam, and use the previous 3 years of your employment work as your clinical hours. All the while the candidate may have been mismanaging breastfeeding simply because they could use their clinical hours prior to didactic.What other profession permits this? Say I want to be a hairdresser (this requires a license in my state). Do you think it would qualify for me to count the previous 3 years I spent cutting my neighbors hair as my practicum 'before' I take any coursework? Of course not, that's silly (and wreckless). Now you have to have all of the requirements completed before you can even submit to sit the exam, but still, it's really backwards to allow candidates to earn hours 'previous' to any education! (They used to allow candidates to apply for exam without having met all of the criteria as long as it would be met by exam date). I firmly believe that moms and babies deserve support from people who set the intention to provide them with qualified support, and get their education, and then earn their hours under supervision.>> Had to jump in with my 2 cents. Some LLLL's learn on the job and go on to successfully become IBCLC's. Unless you are qualifying under Pathway 3 as someone mentioned before, you do not need to be mentored and can learn as you go to take the exam when you're comfortable and have enough hours "working" with moms and babes. This does not mean that you are highly qualified with the highest level of expertise, but that you know when to call it a day and refer to someone who knows more than you do. We learn by doing and calling on others to answer our questions when needed. Maybe you're not talking about LLLL's but this is how many qualify to take the IBLCE and most do it quite well. You better have your ducks in a row, however, if you are audited and they find out you don't, then you're up the creek as they say!!> > Lastly, it is my understanding that the IBLCE is an entry level exam and not the "Ph.D" for IBCLC's.> > Beals (who does not condone handing out incorrect advise to nursing moms...Have a conscience and know your STUFF!!)>

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to add that I was only there as support...this hospital didn't have any LCs there until baby was over 12 hours old. Friend's mother is also a CLC so she had 2 support people there!

Really an eye opener for me...yikes!

Loos

Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideas

Here's a HUGE problem as I see it. The IBLCE does not require the didactic education 'prior' to earning clinical hours. So feasible you could be let's say, a postpartum nurse for 10 years. And one day you decide that you want to be an IBCLC. So, 3 weeks before you are scheduled to sit the exam, you go take a class on lactation. And you sit an exam, and use the previous 3 years of your employment work as your clinical hours. All the while the candidate may have been mismanaging breastfeeding simply because they could use their clinical hours prior to didactic.What other profession permits this? Say I want to be a hairdresser (this requires a license in my state). Do you think it would qualify for me to count the previous 3 years I spent cutting my neighbors hair as my practicum 'before' I take any coursework? Of course not, that's silly (and wreckless). Now you have to have all of the requirements completed before you can even submit to sit the exam, but still, it's really backwards to allow candidates to earn hours 'previous' to any education! (They used to allow candidates to apply for exam without having met all of the criteria as long as it would be met by exam date). I firmly believe that moms and babies deserve support from people who set the intention to provide them with qualified support, and get their education, and then earn their hours under supervision.>> Had to jump in with my 2 cents. Some LLLL's learn on the job and go on to successfully become IBCLC's. Unless you are qualifying under Pathway 3 as someone mentioned before, you do not need to be mentored and can learn as you go to take the exam when you're comfortable and have enough hours "working" with moms and babes. This does not mean that you are highly qualified with the highest level of expertise, but that you know when to call it a day and refer to someone who knows more than you do. We learn by doing and calling on others to answer our questions when needed. Maybe you're not talking about LLLL's but this is how many qualify to take the IBLCE and most do it quite well. You better have your ducks in a row, however, if you are audited and they find out you don't, then you're up the creek as they say!!> > Lastly, it is my understanding that the IBLCE is an entry level exam and not the "Ph.D" for IBCLC's.> > Beals (who does not condone handing out incorrect advise to nursing moms...Have a conscience and know your STUFF!!)>

[Guest guest]

IMO LLL is great prep for IBCLC! and it sounds like you were an amazing helper to that mom. After 20 years exp and 14 years in private practice, I still feel a few butterflies every time I knock on a mom's door. If I thought I had all the answers, I'd be worried. the LC's who think they know everything are often the ones who aren't very effective.... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months--- Subject: Re: Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideasTo: Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 8:35 AM

Hello-

Thoughts I'd add a few thoughts from someone taking the exam this summer. Hopefully you all won't flame me:>)

I have my clinical hours through LLL and have over 220 hours in lactation education BTW

..

I feel like I have enough to help with the basics of breastfeeding and common problems- now anything abnormal my confidence starts dwindling. I admit this...but I'm also trying to find experience. I may pass this exam this summer but will I be ready to run with it- not at all. I know "in theory" how abnormal things may appear and how to "in theory" deal with them but real world things don't also equal in theory scenarios and vice versa.

I really realized this on Tuesday when a good friend had asked me to be at her c-section delivery. I had helped her with her birth plan and the importance of skin to skin after delivery and the first breastfeed within the hour which went off without a hitch (she was well-versed). Though after that hour things for mom went bad and I found myself in a position where baby was rooting and mom wanted to nurse but was physically so out of it and asked me to latch baby and help with a breastfeed again. The nurses had a real hands off approach and wanted to give baby a bath while she was exhibiting pre-feeding cues heavily. Now I was at this delivery because we are close friends and mom was adamant to breastfeed. So I was working with a heavily drugged mom and a new baby. I did get them to have another feed where then baby went into a deep sleep for a few hours and then things became normal baby waking,feeding etc..

As I went home I was so tense and questioning if I did all things right or did I miss something.

This isn't something I take lightly. Yes this might have been my friend but I was in this case responsible for thier inital success. I found myself since Tuesday questioning if I know enough and I know that although I might pass this exam I need more experience.

Do I stop and throw in the towel knowing that in my area the hospital-based IBCLCs (their is no PP-IBCLC) pass out breast shields when they can't spend the extra time or if things aren't going right? Do I stop when I hear the night nurse tell my friend that colostrum doesn't fill up a baby and only the bottle feed babies seem to stop acting hungry?

Yes...I need more experience till I feel like I can help every mom. Finding that experience when you're a non-RN is tough...LLL provides the normal scenarios and alot of the later nursing scenarios but not the first few day issues.

I'm eager to learn and can't get enough! I also can admit my shortcomings and in the quest for this certification have found out the individuals in my state that can deal with the more complicated cases so I know where to send these moms instead of leaving them dangling.

I find myself often asking myself if this is dumb...will I ever know enough?

Thanks for the rambling!

Loos

P.S. Mom was all alone first night as hubby is in Mexico she used no pacifiers, no bottles and baby has surpassed the wet diapers (though I know mother had high fluids so alot of excess fluids from IV was shed)/and passed 3 mec as of 30 hours.

Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideas

Here's a HUGE problem as I see it. The IBLCE does not require the didactic education 'prior' to earning clinical hours. So feasible you could be let's say, a postpartum nurse for 10 years. And one day you decide that you want to be an IBCLC. So, 3 weeks before you are scheduled to sit the exam, you go take a class on lactation. And you sit an exam, and use the previous 3 years of your employment work as your clinical hours. All the while the candidate may have been mismanaging breastfeeding simply because they could use their clinical hours prior to didactic.What other profession permits this? Say I want to be a hairdresser (this requires a license in my state). Do you think it would qualify for me to count the previous 3 years I spent cutting my neighbors hair as my practicum 'before' I take any coursework? Of course not, that's silly (and wreckless). Now you have to have all of the requirements completed before you can even submit to sit the exam, but still, it's really backwards to allow candidates to earn hours 'previous' to any education! (They used to allow candidates to apply for exam without having met all of the criteria as long as it would be met by exam date). I firmly believe that moms and babies deserve support from people who set the intention to provide them with qualified support, and get their education, and then earn their hours under supervision.>> Had to jump in with my 2 cents. Some LLLL's learn on the job and go on to successfully become IBCLC's. Unless you are qualifying under Pathway 3 as someone mentioned before, you do not need to be mentored and can learn as you go to take the exam when you're comfortable and have enough hours "working" with moms and babes. This does not mean that you are highly qualified with the highest level of expertise, but that you know when to call it a day and refer to someone who knows more than you do. We learn by doing and calling on others to answer our questions when needed. Maybe you're not talking about LLLL's but this is how many qualify to take the IBLCE and most do it quite well. You better have your ducks in a row, however, if you are audited and they find out you don't, then you're up the creek as they say!!> > Lastly, it is my understanding that the IBLCE is an entry level exam and not the "Ph.D" for IBCLC's.> > Beals (who does not condone handing out incorrect advise to nursing moms...Have a conscience and know your STUFF!!)>

[Guest guest]

Back in the day, haha, I got my hours as an LLL Leader and through WIC.  My supervisor from WIC was not an IBCLC.  I was very lucky to have two excellent mentors Lynn Swoope and Edelson who talked me through, walked me through, and held my hand as I learned.  let me work in her office and observe, and then do.  That was before you 'earned' hours for such things and we did not document the hours.  It was more about making sure I would be qualified and have the skills to help mommas and babies. 

What I remind myself is IBCLC is 'entry level' and so truly bare basic lactation knowledge is needed to pass the exam.  What I do wish they had is a 'master  IBCLC' or something that recognized the skills that come with practicing for 15 or 25 years instead of retaking the same basic entry level exam.  Oh well.  On the other hand, this field is as much art as it is science and experience varies so much and dyads vary so much, I guess that is not a realistic option.

 

-- Pam MazzellaDiBosco, IBCLC, RLCBirthing & Beyond, Inc.Labor Support and Lactation Consultant Services

[Guest guest]

When I talk to college kids or med students or doctors, it can be so hard to know how to properly present the credential, without disrespecting anybody, but still making it clear that just having letters doesn't make any particular individual an expert.  The last group I talked to was residents, and somebody made the connection for me, that if you're stuck looking at names, and have no personal contacts, it's a safe bet to go with LLLL IBCLC, because you know there's some formal training and you know the woman has breastfed her own kid(s).

I also talk about shopping around like one would with any hcp.Lynn SFO LLLL IBCLCMissouri USA

[Guest guest]

I have the opportunity to present a session on this very topic to our local birth network- mainly doulas, but also midwives, CLEs and CLCs, chiropractors, and CBEs.  My main concern is how to address each level/certification with out sounding condescending or offending any of them.  Only a few are holding themselves out as LCs but several market post-partum BF support for pay (and they are likely to attend).  I'm seeing it as an opportunity to market my fledgling private practice but also prevent moms giving up for lack of sufficient skilled support- I will be sure to provide the contact info of other other IBCLCs in town as well.  I was thinking of asking anyone there who provides BF support to introduce themselves- but only AFTER I explain the different types of support and what the credentialing process is.  's PP book has good info on this that I'm working from.

 

I don't think you need to hold back at all. I used to struggle with this in the past, now I have confidence that I can diplomatically describe these various professions and illuminate the differences in expertise, without being disparaging.

I don't think I ever had a problem distinguishing, I was more concerned about 'offending' other professionals.

As I grew in experience, it came clear to me it is really a disservice for professionals to 'hang on' to serving clients outside their scope. The moms and babies suffer. So they key is, know your role, and know your scope, and refer!

I train Lactation Educators and Peer Counselors. I try to really reinforce the value of this role, and how this is a significant contribution, but it is not providing the clinical support that some mothers and babies require. So don't do your clients a disservice and try to support them beyond your scope (then it's about the professional, and what THEY want to be doing), if you genuinely care about serving moms and babies, you will refer them to the most ideal source of support for their case. So talk about the expertise of the IBCLC freely.

>

> When I talk to college kids or med students or doctors, it can be so hard to

> know how to properly present the credential, without disrespecting anybody,

> but still making it clear that just having letters doesn't make any

> particular individual an expert. The last group I talked to was residents,

> and somebody made the connection for me, that if you're stuck looking at

> names, and have no personal contacts, it's a safe bet to go with LLLL IBCLC,

> because you know there's some formal training and you know the woman has

> breastfed her own kid(s).

>

> I also talk about shopping around like one would with any hcp.

>

> Lynn SFO LLLL IBCLC

> Missouri USA

>

[Guest guest]

I feel the same way and I think we got here via a similar path namely, LLL. I felt so robbed when I took the exam at the 10 year mark. It was way too easy. Can we set the passing score at 75 or 80%? Can't we be challenged? Can't it mean something to resit the exam? Why not have a "master LC" exam or something. I'd by extra $$ to have a clinical component or something more rigorous to clearly set me apart.Whew! a little venting felt pretty good! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months--- Subject: Re: a good laugh and some ridiculous business ideasTo: Date: Friday, May 6, 2011, 9:18 AM

"So, 3 weeks before you are scheduled to sit the exam, you go take a class on

lactation. And you sit an exam, and use the previous 3 years of your employment

work as your clinical hours. All the while the candidate may have been

mismanaging breastfeeding simply because they could use their clinical hours

prior to didactic."

And frankly, I think there are many more LCs out there who got there that way than we want to talk about.

OTOH, no one supervised me, bc as an LLLL I quickly learned more than moat of the other Leaders I worked with bc I did so many home visits and they did not. Then I worked in a hospital where I had more skill than anyone else--so I had to spend a lot of time learning form my clinical experience. When I sat the exam, I had twice the required hours, but most of my knowledge was self-acquired. I was lucky, however, to work with a doctor who taught me a lot about the medical issues relating to breastfeeding. That was a wonderful gift for me.

But, just as I would never say to a mother--go find a doctor to ask about xyz, bc I know they are not all the same--I would not tell a mother to "go find an IBCLC" to help you breastfeed, bc we are not all the same. I try to find someone I can give a personal reference for--or at least give some guidelines for choosing someone.

We can talk all we want about the fact that IBCLC is simply a base-line credential, but as we have so many other initials out there claiming to be LCs--or misunderstood to be--we waste time and energy trying to separate ourselves from them, meanwhile we have so much to worry about among our own ranks. Someone said that IBCLC is not the "PhD" of lactation, but the reality is that so long as we have to continue to re-certify to that baseline level, I see no way to ever get beyond it.

Surely, there are many among us personally motivated to seek a very high level of skill and to share with one another. I find that to be what inspires me. It has inspired me to create my own educational materials bc I want that "PhD" to be out there for us. But, I am extremely frustrated by the approved educational process.

Tow, IBCLC, France

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> > Had to jump in with my 2 cents. Some LLLL's learn on the job and go on to successfully become IBCLC's. Unless you are qualifying under Pathway 3 as someone mentioned before, you do not need to be mentored and can learn as you go to take the exam when you're comfortable and have enough hours "working" with moms and babes. This does not mean that you are highly qualified with the highest level of expertise, but that you know when to call it a day and refer to someone who knows more than you do. We learn by doing and calling on others to answer our questions when needed. Maybe you're not talking about LLLL's but this is how many qualify to take the IBLCE and most do it quite well. You better have your ducks in a row, however, if you are audited and they find out you don't, then you're up the creek as they say!!

> >

> > Lastly, it is my understanding that the IBLCE is an entry level exam and not the "Ph.D" for IBCLC's.

> >

> > Beals (who does not condone handing out incorrect advise to nursing moms...Have a conscience and know your STUFF!!)

> >

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