Re: Sneaky Posterior Tongue-Tie in my 8 year old

[Guest guest]

great story!but I have a question. What is allergic stand up hair? I ask b/c my one of my kids had hair that stuck out all over and she has lots of allergies (environmental, not food) Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/From: nadjaschlabitz To: Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 6:20 PMSubject: Sneaky Posterior Tongue-Tie in my 8 year old

Hello all,

On Monday, I took my 8 year old son, Rolando in for a lingual frenotomy/frenectomy. (I am told that the insurance companies refer to it as the latter; I had known the former term).

As a baby, Rolando, my 6th child, had an anterior TT clipped at age 4-1/2 mos. It took me that long, because as a mother of 5 previously breastfed children, and as an LLLL for 10 years at that time, I thought I "should" know what the problem was. I had seen his TT, but he had a weak suck, and caused me no pain. In retrospect, I see the brick dust urine and the solid stools at a week (right color; wrong consistency) were cause for concern.

I dealt with allergies--he had classic allergic "stand-up" hair from birth-- and torticollis, with a lot of colicky crying for the first 3 mos before finding out about a local chiropractor who worked on babies. It was he who noticed Rolando's unusual palate. At that point I saw Chele Marmet at the Lactation Institute.

Chele said Rolando had a "keyhole" palate, and Pierre Robin Sequence (not Syndrome), which gives him a receding chin. She had me check him out with a breastfeeding friendly ped to rule out neurological issues, as he was hypotonic and drooled a lot. She also recommended clipping the TT, which I had Dr. Marmet do as soon as possible.

Rolando seemed to gain better and relax visibly after the frenotomy. Chele said he would have been failure to thrive had I not been tandem nursing 2 year old Diego, who nursed, as many 2 year olds do after the birth of a new baby, like a newborn.

Thanks to this experience, i pursued certification as an IBCLC and sat for the exam in 2005, recertifying by exam in 2010. I attended every session offered at our Area LLL Conferences on TT. When I started seeing clients in my very small and sporadic private practice in 2010, I pestered and picked Ann 's and Shari Silady's (on this list; thank you, ladies!!) brains on the topic, as well as reading all I saw on this list, and every book and article I could get my hands on.

In 2009 I took Rolando to a speech therapist for evaluation, as his speech seemed more unintelligible than it might have been, which surprised me, as he had had the frenotomy done. His assessment came out with some minor problem areas, which might have resolved themselves in time, but in actuality did not. He also continued drooling a lot.

Fast forward to 2010 and Isabella Knox's article, and I saw in print that an anterior TT could conceal a sneaky posterior TT. I checked Rolando's palate, and sure enough, he still had the keyhole shape; his tongue had not formed his palate at all! By this time I was able to speak to Leigh Anne on this list (thank you also!) re: her daughter's frenotomy procedure at around age 7-8. I also saw a blog re: an older child's experience.

I discussed it with my husband, and explained my concerns to Rolando. Several months later, he suddenly told me, "I want my (pointed to his tongue) clipped." I was floored! Chele Marmet had introduced me to an orofacial myologist at our last LLL Conference, and I had spoken to her over the phone this past summer. He again asked me when would we do this procedure, so I took Rolando in for an evaluation, and she confirmed my concerns.

So on Monday, after taking him in for a CST session, I drove him an hour away to see Dr. , a dentist who uses laser and topical anesthesia to perform frenectomies. I had shown Rolando the book online by Dr. Larry Kotlow, so he would know what to expect; and Dr. , explained what he was doing every step of the way.

He had his assistant take a before picture, and checked the frenulum for elasticity. He then applied some anesthetic using a long Q-Tip to numb the area, then used a short, very thin needle to inject the anesthesia into the frenulum. This was the only part Rolando felt. Dr. then used long-handled tweezers to gently test whether Rolando felt anything, asking him whether he did.

Dr. explained that he had been using laser technology for the past 30 years, and had been speaking about it to classes the world over. He told me there is no bleeding, and pain is significantly reduced. He held Rolando's tongue tip with a 2X2 piece of gauze, as he lasered the frenulum, being careful to thoroughly release as much as possible. His assurance was that he would continue to repeat the procedure, should the need arise, at no extra cost to us.

At the end of the procedure, an after photo was taken, and Rolando was given a cold popsicle to suck, and was invited to choose a trinket from the treasure chest. Dr. e even extended me a professional discount, which was very much appreciated by this mother of 8!! Rolando was pleased with his experience; on the ride home, he went over the procedure with me, telling me step-by-step how it happened.

I gave him children's Ibuprofen and also homeopathic remedies recommended by Ann . He did not care much for the Ibuprofen after the following day. Pushing the tongue up and back was challenging and slippery when I attempted doing it; after speaking with Ann, I followed her suggestion and asked Rolando to stretch his own tongue to the roof of his mouth while opening very wide. He does better with this after some remedies, as his tongue still feels tender.

True to Dr. 's prediction, though, Rolando was hopping around like a cricket the very next day. We have an appointment with the orofacial myologist on Friday; I hope it goes well! Thank you, ladies, for all the information and encouragement you share!!

Sincerely,

Nadja Catano

[Guest guest]

What a great story, Nadja! By the way, what is an orofacial myologist?

De Kassing

[Guest guest]

Chele Marmet said many years ago that babies who have hair that stands straight up naturally (not combed that way by their mothers) have allergies. It is a sign that baby is allergic to something, even if no one knows it yet.

Dee Kassinggreat story!

but I have a question. What is allergic stand up hair? I ask b/c my one of my kids had hair that stuck out all over and she has lots of allergies (environmental, not food)

Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/

[Guest guest]

huh. ok... and that's based on... just wondering... anybody know? Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/From: Dee Kassing To: Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 9:37 PMSubject: Re: Sneaky Posterior Tongue-Tie in my 8 year old

Chele Marmet said many years ago that babies who have hair that stands straight up naturally (not combed that way by their mothers) have allergies. It is a sign that baby is allergic to something, even if no one knows it yet.

Dee Kassinggreat story!

but I have a question. What is allergic stand up hair? I ask b/c my one of my kids had hair that stuck out all over and she has lots of allergies (environmental, not food)

Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Dee!

Rolando's oral anatomy has developed into his having a tongue-thrust in

attempting to swallow with his TT.

From the International Association of Orofacial Myology website:

The prefix " myo " means muscle. Orofacial myofunctional disorders involve a

variety of postural and functional disorders including sucking habits and

inappropriate oral postures or functions of the muscles of the tongue, lips,

jaw, and face. A common disorder familiar to the public is " tongue thrust " ,

where the tongue rests against or between the front or side teeth during

swallowing rather than lifting up into the palate (roof of the mouth). Tongue

thrusting frequently occurs with a low, forward resting posture of the tongue,

with a lips apart posture. Just as the controlled continuous forces of

orthodontic appliances (braces) can move teeth, abnormal postures and functions

in the oral cavity can contribute to the development of dental malocclusions

such as incorrectly positioned teeth, an improper bite relationship or other

problems related to oral or facial muscle dysfunction or a malformation of the

bones of the dental arches.

http://www.iaom.com/content/parents-page

~Nadja Catano

>

> What a great story, Nadja!  By the way, what is an orofacial myologist?

>     De Kassing

>

[Guest guest]

I had an allergist tell me that very tightly curled eyelashes is a sign of allergies.To: From: second9months@...Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 21:46:13 -0700Subject: Re: Sneaky Posterior Tongue-Tie in my 8 year old

huh. ok... and that's based on... just wondering... anybody know? Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/From: Dee Kassing To: Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 9:37 PMSubject: Re: Sneaky Posterior Tongue-Tie in my 8 year old

Chele Marmet said many years ago that babies who have hair that stands straight up naturally (not combed that way by their mothers) have allergies. It is a sign that baby is allergic to something, even if no one knows it yet.

Dee Kassinggreat story!

but I have a question. What is allergic stand up hair? I ask b/c my one of my kids had hair that stuck out all over and she has lots of allergies (environmental, not food)

Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/

[Guest guest]

Great story, and I too am interested in this " hair " issue, I have a client with

a set of fraternal twins, and one has MAJOR stand up hair even at 1 year of age,

(they are still being breastfed).

Dalton

> great story!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> but I have a question.  What is allergic stand up hair?  I ask b/c my one of

my kids had hair that stuck out all over and she has lots of allergies

(environmental, not food)

>  

> Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC

> Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula

>

> www.second9months.com

> Breastfeeding Between the Lines:  http://second9months.wordpress.com/

>

[Guest guest]

I heard of/read about the hair thing too tho can't for the life of me remember where.......It stands out for me because I when I heard about it I was involved with LLL and had my first baby (12yrs ago now) who had a head full of wild stand up hair and he did have allergies - dairy, egg and peanut and he had, by age 5 or 6, outgrown - tho he does still occasionally get 'mystery hives' and does have seasonal allergies the severity of which depends on the year. I tend to make a mental note of this when I see babies tho am sure I don't always mention it to moms or at least I am selective about with whom to share the idea. I always look for babies with that downy chick, sticky up hair. It has borne out as true a few times but I don't always get to follow up long enough to know for sure with most of them.

Just another 2 cents worth

beth

BA, IBCLC, LLLC leader Ottawa, Canada

Re: Sneaky Posterior Tongue-Tie in my 8 year old

Great story, and I too am interested in this "hair" issue, I have a client with a set of fraternal twins, and one has MAJOR stand up hair even at 1 year of age, (they are still being breastfed). Dalton> great story!> > > > > > > > > but I have a question. What is allergic stand up hair? I ask b/c my one of my kids had hair that stuck out all over and she has lots of allergies (environmental, not food)> > Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC > Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula > > www.second9months.com> Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/>

[Guest guest]

I have heard of this too. Never really believed it – my 2 kids with the worst allergies had hair like the others, laid flat (except for Joe – bad allergies and almost bald until 2). I have a few cousins who had that stand-up hair, but don’t know if they had allergies or not. It may be one of those things you see more often in kids with allergies. Who knows – but it does make interesting baby pictures!!

Felicia Henry, BCCE, IBCLC

Oxnard, CA

From: Beth McMillan

Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 8:12 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Sneaky Posterior Tongue-Tie in my 8 year old

I heard of/read about the hair thing too tho can't for the life of me remember where.......It stands out for me because I when I heard about it I was involved with LLL and had my first baby (12yrs ago now) who had a head full of wild stand up hair and he did have allergies - dairy, egg and peanut and he had, by age 5 or 6, outgrown - tho he does still occasionally get 'mystery hives' and does have seasonal allergies the severity of which depends on the year. I tend to make a mental note of this when I see babies tho am sure I don't always mention it to moms or at least I am selective about with whom to share the idea. I always look for babies with that downy chick, sticky up hair. It has borne out as true a few times but I don't always get to follow up long enough to know for sure with most of them.

Just another 2 cents worth

beth

BA, IBCLC, LLLC leader Ottawa, Canada

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6523 (20111006) __________The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info, Nadja. I went to their website and I was able to find several people listed in the St. Louis area. I'll have to contact one or two of them and see what they tell me about working with babies. I had never heard of this specialty before.

Dee

Subject: Re: Sneaky Posterior Tongue-Tie in my 8 year oldTo: Date: Thursday, October 6, 2011, 2:39 AM

Thank you, Dee! Rolando's oral anatomy has developed into his having a tongue-thrust in attempting to swallow with his TT.From the International Association of Orofacial Myology website:The prefix "myo" means muscle. Orofacial myofunctional disorders involve a variety of postural and functional disorders including sucking habits and inappropriate oral postures or functions of the muscles of the tongue, lips, jaw, and face. A common disorder familiar to the public is "tongue thrust", where the tongue rests against or between the front or side teeth during swallowing rather than lifting up into the palate (roof of the mouth). Tongue thrusting frequently occurs with a low, forward resting posture of the tongue, with a lips apart posture. Just as the controlled continuous forces of orthodontic appliances (braces) can move teeth, abnormal postures and functions in the oral cavity can contribute to the development of dental

malocclusions such as incorrectly positioned teeth, an improper bite relationship or other problems related to oral or facial muscle dysfunction or a malformation of the bones of the dental arches.http://www.iaom.com/content/parents-page~Nadja Catano>> What a great story, Nadja! By the way, what is an orofacial myologist?> De Kassing>

[Guest guest]

It is well-known to be part of the tuberculinum homeopathic miasm and does

indeed tend to correspond to a higher likelihood of food allergies. In

homeopathy, each miasm, which has a genetic component, has certain physiologic

weaknesses and indications of such. As I teach in my workshops, the internal

terrain is reflected in the external terrain.

Tow, IBCLC, France

> great story!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> but I have a question. What is allergic stand up hair? I ask b/c my one of

my kids had hair that stuck out all over and she has lots of allergies

(environmental, not food)

>

> Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC

> Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula

>

> www.second9months.com

> Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/

>