RE: Re: Tips post-frenotomy - CST

[Guest guest]

Hi, Jaye.

I will attempt to answer some of your questions, based on where I live.

There are plenty of chiros here who *say* they "work on babies", but can't accomplish a darn thing for sucking problems. I have had mothers who didn't want to travel to the very few CST practitioners on my "approved" (my own approval!) list, who went to local (to the mother) chiros for 6 visits, even 10 visits, and not one darn thing was accomplished. When I finally convinced them to stop wasting their time and money and go to someone I recommend, they saw significant change in the very first visit. But I only have two chiros on my list and they both know CST and I won't refer to other chiros because they just don't know what they are doing (here where I live). They can often help a squirmy baby get comfortable in his own skin so he can lie still and sleep better, and they can sometimes help with reflux, but they just don't accomplish a thing for suck, which is of course, my biggest concern!

Yes, I have heard of other modalities. Bowen Technique is mentioned frequently on this list, but when I researched it here, there is only one person in the St Louis area who does it (at least as listed on their website's Find a Practitioner section) and I talked with that person and she doesn't work on babies.

I (and the mothers I work with) are fortunate to have four CST providers who know their stuff, here where I live, and they are nicely geographically spread throughout the metropolitan region so most mothers don't have to travel more than about a half-hour to get to one of them. (Some of the mothers in the rural east parts here do have to travel about an hour to get to one of them.)

Dee KassingIn my areas we have a few CST practitioners – I must say I have not been at all impressed with them in the least except one. That one is a Pediatrician who did a home visit for one of my clients – we actually ended up doing a joint consult with that one and it was fabulous! Baby had minor tightness – and Doc CST skills took care of it very nicely.

However, when it comes to the babies I typically see, CST (done by those here in my area) doesn’t touch the problem at all. The practitioners charge a LOT of money for very little results – declare the baby done with treatment and the kid still can’t breastfeed properly if at all. For those babies who have serious muscle tightness I’d like to know why people seem to ONLY refer to CST. Why are you not seeking out other modalities? Have you just not heard of anything other than CST – or are there just no other practitioners in your area? What about Chiro?

Here in Sacramento I send my babies to Judy Terwilliger, RN, CMT. She is a Ped. RN who keeps up her PED RN licensing and practices the Bowen Method. She has taken traditional Bowen and given it her own twist – calling it Medically integrated Bowen Therapy. Not only does she use traditional Bowen, but she also pulls from other modalities she has studied (Ortho Bionomy, sports medicine, etc…she has studied SO many different things I don’t if she can remember them all!). She is currently the most profound practitioner I have EVER seen – not only for my structural issues but especially for the babies. She also works concurrently with several local pediatric Chiros… Quite frankly, we need Judy to clone herself and her skills and start teaching all over the damn country…

Here in Sacramento, Judy and I have been trying to stress the importance to our LC, pediatric nurse/Dr community of simply recognizing structural dysfunction (of any kind) and getting baby into treatment (with someone!) asap. It is coming along very slowly. Meanwhile babies come to me or to Judy weeks and weeks into LC care and are so compromised that they take far longer to treat than they would have had they been sent in immediately. It is my hope that someday ALL LC’s will be able to competently recognize that dysfunction at the FIRST visit and get baby sent out for treatment immediately. It is also my hope that someday we will have more than just CST as a known modality to refer out to.

Anyway, those are my musings this morning after a night of watching Judy release a 12 day old so successfully that mom felt him actually Suck for the first time on the breast. Prior he was nursing – but not well, weak suck, weak tongue – extremely tight baby. And then there was the 3 wks old full term baby who was born with NEC on board…she was so tight her ears were touching her shoulders and she also was struggling to nurse and was very squirmy (trying to get comfortable) all the time. This little one never stopped moving – even while sleeping. She slept on Judy’s table and didn’t move at all…body in nice straight alignment for the first time and she had a neck…in other words her ears were no longer on her shoulders. I will be keeping a close eye on these two (as I do all my babies)…They will

need continuing treatment but since we got to them before they were several weeks (or even a couple months!) old, I expect full recovery in a very short time period.

Warmly,Jaye

[Guest guest]

My experience here in Ottawa has been that although I present chiro as an option, many parents are unwilling to even consider it, despite me explaining that it is not the type of “crack your neck” chiro that they are likely familiar with. Most parents are far more comfortable with the idea of CST because it is so gentle. We are lucky to have several very good practitioners here, and I have seen amazing results with CST for babies with suck issues/muscle tightness (especially after birth injury). Depending on the severity of the problem, it usually takes 1-4 treatments, and I know that I can trust the practitioners not to keep parents coming back “just because”. We do have Bowen practitioners here, but I’m not familiar with any who practice on babies. I am certainly open to anything providing they are practitioners that I am familiar with, and I know and trust their work. Warmly,Fleur (who had the fascinating experience this week of watching her 8 year old son relive his birth during his first CST session. We are working on issues now that his tongue tie has been released). From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Jaye Simpson, IBCLCSent: July-23-11 10:44 AMTo: Subject: Re: Tips post-frenotomy - CST In my areas we have a few CST practitioners – I must say I have not been at all impressed with them in the least except one. That one is a Pediatrician who did a home visit for one of my clients – we actually ended up doing a joint consult with that one and it was fabulous! Baby had minor tightness – and Doc CST skills took care of it very nicely. However, when it comes to the babies I typically see, CST (done by those here in my area) doesn’t touch the problem at all. The practitioners charge a LOT of money for very little results – declare the baby done with treatment and the kid still can’t breastfeed properly if at all. For those babies who have serious muscle tightness I’d like to know why people seem to ONLY refer to CST. Why are you not seeking out other modalities? Have you just not heard of anything other than CST – or are there just no other practitioners in your area? What about Chiro? Here in Sacramento I send my babies to Judy Terwilliger, RN, CMT. She is a Ped. RN who keeps up her PED RN licensing and practices the Bowen Method. She has taken traditional Bowen and given it her own twist – calling it Medically integrated Bowen Therapy. Not only does she use traditional Bowen, but she also pulls from other modalities she has studied (Ortho Bionomy, sports medicine, etc…she has studied SO many different things I don’t if she can remember them all!). She is currently the most profound practitioner I have EVER seen – not only for my structural issues but especially for the babies. She also works concurrently with several local pediatric Chiros… Quite frankly, we need Judy to clone herself and her skills and start teaching all over the damn country… Here in Sacramento, Judy and I have been trying to stress the importance to our LC, pediatric nurse/Dr community of simply recognizing structural dysfunction (of any kind) and getting baby into treatment (with someone!) asap. It is coming along very slowly. Meanwhile babies come to me or to Judy weeks and weeks into LC care and are so compromised that they take far longer to treat than they would have had they been sent in immediately. It is my hope that someday ALL LC’s will be able to competently recognize that dysfunction at the FIRST visit and get baby sent out for treatment immediately. It is also my hope that someday we will have more than just CST as a known modality to refer out to. Anyway, those are my musings this morning after a night of watching Judy release a 12 day old so successfully that mom felt him actually Suck for the first time on the breast. Prior he was nursing – but not well, weak suck, weak tongue – extremely tight baby. And then there was the 3 wks old full term baby who was born with NEC on board…she was so tight her ears were touching her shoulders and she also was struggling to nurse and was very squirmy (trying to get comfortable) all the time. This little one never stopped moving – even while sleeping. She slept on Judy’s table and didn’t move at all…body in nice straight alignment for the first time and she had a neck…in other words her ears were no longer on her shoulders. I will be keeping a close eye on these two (as I do all my babies)…They will need continuing treatment but since we got to them before they were several weeks (or even a couple months!) old, I expect full recovery in a very short time period. Warmly,Jaye Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIMBreastfeeding NetworkSacramento, CAwww.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

Hi Fay,I’m happy to share. My son is 8, and he had his tongue tie released about a month ago. You can read about it & see pictures here: http://blog.nurturedchild.ca/index.php/2011/05/19/my-8-year-olds-tongue-tie/ There were immediate improvements in tongue mobility, but obviously, with him being 8, he has a lot of adaptations to overcome. My husband is not at all comfortable with chiro, so we are doing CST. He had his first session a few days ago, and at the same time my daughter had her second session. (she is going due to some issues with fluid in her ears). During both sessions with my daughter (who is 6), it was interesting to watch, and to hear from the practitioner what she was feeling, but there was nothing dramatic about it (mind you my daughter has trouble staying still!). With my son however, it fascinating to see where his body was taking her. It was easy to see that she was following his body, and his head and neck were turning into some very unnatural positions. He was finding it uncomfortable at times as his muscles stretched, but never enough that he needed her stop. As I watched, I realized that I was seeing the movements of a baby coming through the birth canal (I’m an obstetrical RN and used to work L & D in a small hospital so I‘ve delivered a few babies when the doctor didn’t make it in time). During many of the movements, you could see the tension in him, he would say it was uncomfortable and then you could see the change as the tension released and he would move into the next position. Towards the end, his position was exactly that of a posterior baby (which he was) being born, and then the practitioner followed him as he sat up on the table. She said that if two sets of hands had been on him he likely would have been off the table. She was telling me that with babies, she can usually tell what position they were born in from the positions they assume on the table.It was so fascinating to watch, and my son really enjoyed the experience. He said it was awesome. My daughter needs maybe one more session, but not surprisingly, my son will need a number of sessions to work through his issues. Warmly,Fleur From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of FaySent: July-24-11 10:03 AMTo: Subject: Re: Tips post-frenotomy - CST Fleur, I'd love to hear more about your son's experience - do share.Fay Bosman, IBCLC> > Fleur (who had the fascinating experience this week of watching her 8 year> old son relive his birth during his first CST session. We are working on> issues now that his tongue tie has been released).