Re: question about ridge in middle of palate

[Guest guest]

Lyla, I've seen this before and I actually talked to Robin Glass about it. We weren't looking at a baby at the time though--I was just trying to dx this thing to her. She insisted it isn't a ridge and I kept saying it felt and looked like a ridge. So...I am still mystified. I hope I can see another baby like that soon and I'll take a picture! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months--- Subject: question about ridge in middle of palateTo: Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 7:18 PM

I don’t have my books handy, and I am wondering if anyone has input on a palate I saw (casually, not a client) on a 5 month old baby. this baby had a frenotomy a month or more ago (lingual) and is nursing fine, gaining fine, (though refusing one breast, the lower producing side.) from what I saw the latch is a bit shallow and mom reported babe has been chomping/biting (with teething pain, she thinks) recently. but no nipple damage or pain other than if she misses the sign of an impending clamp. but my question is about the palate. I noticed a distinctive line running down the middle of the palate (anterior to posterior) - a palpable ridge, not just a 2 dimensional line. any thoughts on this? is this a midline defect/a near miss on a cleft palate, maybe, but nothing to worry about since it’s closed? what do submucousal clefts look like on the outside? if baby is gaining fine, is there anything to pursue? thanks for any insight! again – not a client, just an acquaintance/baby I took care of as a birthday gift to mama, so no intake or oral/digital assessment, etc.

lyla

[Guest guest]

wow renee, glad to hear I am not the only one! what did robin think you were describing, just a line?

From: Beebe

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 9:30 PM

To:

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palate

Lyla, I've seen this before and I actually talked to Robin Glass about it. We weren't looking at a baby at the time though--I was just trying to dx this thing to her. She insisted it isn't a ridge and I kept saying it felt and looked like a ridge. So...I am still mystified. I hope I can see another baby like that soon and I'll take a picture!

[Guest guest]

Yes, she said I was seeing where the palate came together. I kept saying over and over it was a ridge and she just kept shaking her head. kind of comical, actually! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months--- Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palateTo: Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 9:34 PM

wow renee, glad to hear I am not the only one! what did robin think you were describing, just a line?

From: Beebe

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 9:30 PM

To:

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palate

Lyla, I've seen this before and I actually talked to Robin Glass about it. We weren't looking at a baby at the time though--I was just trying to dx this thing to her. She insisted it isn't a ridge and I kept saying it felt and looked like a ridge. So...I am still mystified. I hope I can see another baby like that soon and I'll take a picture!

[Guest guest]

that’s annoying yes I do believe it was WHERE the palate came together, but it was ALSO a ridge - I should write cathy genna to see what she has to say...

lyla

Yes, she said I was seeing where the palate came together. I kept saying over and over it was a ridge and she just kept shaking her head. kind of comical, actually!

Lyla, I've seen this before and I actually talked to Robin Glass about it. We weren't looking at a baby at the time though--I was just trying to dx this thing to her. She insisted it isn't a ridge and I kept saying it

[Guest guest]

was it thin? almost sharp? like a thick thread glued to the palate? Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months--- From: lylaw

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palateTo: Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 10:06 PM

that’s annoying yes I do believe it was WHERE the palate came together, but it was ALSO a ridge - I should write cathy genna to see what she has to say...

lyla

Yes, she said I was seeing where the palate came together. I kept saying over and over it was a ridge and she just kept shaking her head. kind of comical, actually!

Lyla, I've seen this before and I actually talked to Robin Glass about it. We weren't looking at a baby at the time though--I was just trying to dx this thing to her. She insisted it isn't a ridge and I kept saying it

[Guest guest]

I am wondering if the two sides of the palate perhaps overlapped instead of just coming up to each other. It would be interesting to have an experience craniosacral therapist give her opinion of the structure.

Dee Kassing

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palateTo: Date: Monday, May 16, 2011, 12:06 AM

that’s annoying yes I do believe it was WHERE the palate came together, but it was ALSO a ridge - I should write cathy genna to see what she has to say...

lyla

Yes, she said I was seeing where the palate came together. I kept saying over and over it was a ridge and she just kept shaking her head. kind of comical, actually!

Lyla, I've seen this before and I actually talked to Robin Glass about it. We weren't looking at a baby at the time though--I was just trying to dx this thing to her. She insisted it isn't a ridge and I kept saying it

[Guest guest]

yes! that would be a good description!

From: Beebe

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 10:06 PM

To:

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palate

was it thin? almost sharp? like a thick thread glued to the palate?

Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/

Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months---

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palateTo: Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 10:06 PM

that’s annoying yes I do believe it was WHERE the palate came together, but it was ALSO a ridge - I should write cathy genna to see what she has to say...

lyla

Yes, she said I was seeing where the palate came together. I kept saying over and over it was a ridge and she just kept shaking her head. kind of comical, actually!

Lyla, I've seen this before and I actually talked to Robin Glass about it. We weren't looking at a baby at the time though--I was just trying to dx this thing to her. She insisted it isn't a ridge and I kept saying it

[Guest guest]

I know she did have some cst done – I should ask her if anything was said...

From: Dee Kassing

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 10:07 PM

To:

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palate

I am wondering if the two sides of the palate perhaps overlapped instead of just coming up to each other. It would be interesting to have an experience craniosacral therapist give her opinion of the structure.

Dee Kassing

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palateTo: Date: Monday, May 16, 2011, 12:06 AM

that’s annoying yes I do believe it was WHERE the palate came together, but it was ALSO a ridge - I should write cathy genna to see what she has to say...

lyla

Yes, she said I was seeing where the palate came together. I kept saying over and over it was a ridge and she just kept shaking her head. kind of comical, actually!

Lyla, I've seen this before and I actually talked to Robin Glass about it. We weren't looking at a baby at the time though--I was just trying to dx this thing to her. She insisted it isn't a ridge and I kept saying it

[Guest guest]

Thank you! so happy to know I am not crazy. I was beginning to doubt myself after my conversation with Robin... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months--- Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palateTo: Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 10:17 PM

yes! that would be a good description!

From: Beebe

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 10:06 PM

To:

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palate

was it thin? almost sharp? like a thick thread glued to the palate?

Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/

Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months---

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palateTo: Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 10:06 PM

that’s annoying yes I do believe it was WHERE the palate came together, but it was ALSO a ridge - I should write cathy genna to see what she has to say...

lyla

Yes, she said I was seeing where the palate came together. I kept saying over and over it was a ridge and she just kept shaking her head. kind of comical, actually!

Lyla, I've seen this before and I actually talked to Robin Glass about it. We weren't looking at a baby at the time though--I was just trying to dx this thing to her. She insisted it isn't a ridge and I kept saying it

[Guest guest]

, you are not crazy and Dee is right on.  It happens when the two sides of the maxilla get jammed together.  One is usually lower than the other.  If you slide your finger back and forth, you can tell which side is lower.  I definitely see this with tongue-tied babies, the palate is often high and jammed together.

CST or osteopathic treatment is a good idea.  Most of these babies really like to suck on a finger to help move it too, mom can put her finger on the ridge and gently direct energy on the lower side - on the ridge, like you are 'pushing' it back to the side- not sure if I am describing this adequately via email... Treating the whole baby with CST is preferable, since restrictions in other areas can contribute as well.  

HealySeattle, WA 

[Guest guest]

A submucousal cleft is of often associated with a bifid uvula, that's one of the

first indicators of its existence. They can be difficult to visualize because

they are so far back, in order to see it you have to use a tongue depressor and

you're guaranteed to initiate the gag reflex. Baby's will understandably be

orally defensive so it often takes 2 people to perform the exam. If you use a

pen light you can sometimes see the thin membrane layer covering the cleft of

the soft palate, or sometimes it can be palpated. It often depends on the size,

a larger cleft being easier to visualize, smaller more difficult. Sometimes they

use nasopharyngoscopy to view it by inserting a small tube into the nose.

I've seen half a dozen or so, half of which went initially undiagnosed at the

immediate newborn exam because this type of observation is not a component of a

typical newborn exam. These baby's usually end up with an evaluation because

they are regurgitating milk out their nose. Sometimes it gets overlooked because

that regurgitation is inconsistent so nobody bothers to really check into it but

if it persists this should be ruled out.

>

> I don’t have my books handy, and I am wondering if anyone has input on a

palate I saw (casually, not a client) on a 5 month old baby. this baby had a

frenotomy a month or more ago (lingual) and is nursing fine, gaining fine,

(though refusing one breast, the lower producing side.) from what I saw the

latch is a bit shallow and mom reported babe has been chomping/biting (with

teething pain, she thinks) recently. but no nipple damage or pain other than if

she misses the sign of an impending clamp. but my question is about the

palate. I noticed a distinctive line running down the middle of the palate

(anterior to posterior) - a palpable ridge, not just a 2 dimensional line. any

thoughts on this? is this a midline defect/a near miss on a cleft palate,

maybe, but nothing to worry about since it’s closed? what do submucousal

clefts look like on the outside? if baby is gaining fine, is there anything to

pursue? thanks for any insight! again †" not a client, just an

acquaintance/baby I took care of as a birthday gift to mama, so no intake or

oral/digital assessment, etc.

>

> lyla

>

[Guest guest]

I have had 2 babies with ridges right down the center of the

palate – they were siblings – both tongue tied. Here is the weird

thing: Lyla and – the ridges you saw – did they protrude

down into the oral cavity? These two kidlets did. One had a very sharp edge

and not as much. Looked like a small mountain range upside down. I have

pictures… J

I was told they were a torus – but when I did my

research on Torus’ they looked nothing like the ridges I saw. Nothing.

Lastly – when you tell someone there is a ridge and

they tell you (sight unseen) that no there isn’t – then they are

not listening. And that causes me to lose some respect. Why couldn’t

she simply say: Get me some pictures because I am having a hard time

visualizing what you are describing. Why blow you off? That irks me…

Warmly,

Jaye

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

I have only experienced a ridge like you describe once.  CST fixed it.  The ridge rubbed on mom's nipple causing pain.If I were my CST person she would be able to explain what this is.. From what I remember her saying it is an overlapping of plates that needs body work.  Of course she was so much more detailed. 

shari silady ibclc

 

Lyla, I've seen this before and I actually talked to Robin Glass about it.  We weren't looking at a baby at the time though--I was just trying to dx this thing to her.  She insisted it isn't a ridge and I kept saying it felt and looked like a ridge.    So...I am still mystified.  I hope I can see another baby like that soon and I'll take a picture!

Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines:  http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook:  www.facebook.com/thesecond9months

Subject: question about ridge in middle of palateTo: Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 7:18 PM

 

I don’t have my books handy, and I am wondering if anyone has input on a palate I saw (casually, not a client) on a 5 month old baby.  this baby had a frenotomy  a month or more ago (lingual) and is nursing fine, gaining fine, (though refusing one breast, the lower producing side.)  from what I saw the latch is a bit shallow and mom reported babe has been chomping/biting (with teething pain, she thinks) recently.  but no nipple damage or pain other than if she misses the sign  of an impending clamp.  but my question is about the palate.  I noticed a distinctive line running down the middle of the palate (anterior to posterior)  - a palpable ridge, not just a 2 dimensional line. any thoughts on this?  is this a midline defect/a near miss on a cleft palate, maybe, but nothing to worry about since it’s closed?  what do submucousal clefts look like on the outside?  if baby is gaining fine, is there anything to pursue?  thanks for any insight!  again – not a client, just an acquaintance/baby I took care of as a birthday gift to mama, so no intake or oral/digital assessment, etc. 

 

lyla

-- ~~~~~~~~~~ Shari Silady ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ " Mothers have as powerful an influence over the welfare of future generations as all other earthly causes combined. "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

Could be a torus. Perhaps what you are describing is a spindle tori having a ridge located at midline. It says that tori show up later but I seem to always remember a bump in my mouth that I thought was normal. I also have the mandibular tori behind my bottom teeth. The first link is interesting I had never known a few of the things explained therein. Such as, "Tori / buccal exostoses may be the outcome of mild,

chronic peri-osteal ischæmia secondary to mild nasal septum pressures (palatal torus) or the torquing action of the arch of the mandible (mandibular torus) or lateral pressures from the roots of the underlying teeth (buccal exostosis) but this is largely speculation." I believe this to possibly be true, I have a deviated septum and lots of trouble with apnea and snoring (finally going to see an ENT because now my smell and taste have changed) And my bottom teeth are very crowded and crooked which could have caused the lower problem.

Another item of interest, "The patient should be evaluated for Gardner syndrome should there be multiple bony growths or lesions not in the classic torus or buccal exostosis locations.

Intestinal polyposis and cutaneous cysts or fibromas are other common features of this autosomal dominant syndrome. (Intestinal polyps run in my family and

now I'm thinking my tori could be something that makes me go and get that colonoscopy that I have been putting off for 4 years now.)

So as this baby is evaluated perhaps you are catching something that an ENT might take a look at and could be used to look for other sympoms of midline defects.

http://exodontia.info/Exostoses-Osteomata.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torus_palatinus

Cheryl n, IBCLC

Alliance, Ohio

To: Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 12:03 PMSubject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palate

I have only experienced a ridge like you describe once. CST fixed it. The ridge rubbed on mom's nipple causing pain.If I were my CST person she would be able to explain what this is.. From what I remember her saying it is an overlapping of plates that needs body work. Of course she was so much more detailed. shari silady ibclc

Lyla, I've seen this before and I actually talked to Robin Glass about it. We weren't looking at a baby at the time though--I was just trying to dx this thing to her. She insisted it isn't a ridge and I kept saying it felt and looked like a ridge. So...I am still mystified. I hope I can see another baby like that soon and I'll take a picture!

Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com

Breastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/

Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months---

Subject: question about ridge in middle of palateTo: Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 7:18 PM

I don’t have my books handy, and I am wondering if anyone has input on a palate I saw (casually, not a client) on a 5 month old baby. this baby had a frenotomy a month or more ago (lingual) and is nursing fine, gaining fine, (though refusing one breast, the lower producing side.) from what I saw the latch is a bit shallow and mom reported babe has been chomping/biting (with teething pain, she thinks) recently. but no nipple damage or pain other than if she misses the sign of an impending clamp. but my question is about the palate. I noticed a distinctive line running down the middle of the palate (anterior to posterior) - a palpable ridge, not just a 2 dimensional line. any thoughts on this? is this a midline defect/a near miss on a cleft palate, maybe, but nothing to worry about since it’s closed? what do submucousal clefts look like on the outside? if baby is gaining fine, is

there anything to pursue? thanks for any insight! again – not a client, just an acquaintance/baby I took care of as a birthday gift to mama, so no intake or oral/digital assessment, etc.

lyla

-- ~~~~~~~~~~ Shari Silady ~~~~~~~~~~~~~"Mothers have as powerful an influence over the welfare of future generations as all other earthly causes combined."~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

interesting, but I wonder if we are talking about something different? this really did not look like a bony “protuberance†or misalignment. as renee discribed, it was as if a string had been glued to the roof of the mouth. if I had to guess at the tissue, it was more like scar tissue / fused/thickened epithelial cells...?

From: Healy, IBCLC

Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 10:58 PM

To:

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palate

, you are not crazy and Dee is right on. It happens when the two sides of the maxilla get jammed together. One is usually lower than the other. If you slide your finger back and forth, you can tell which side is lower. I definitely see this with tongue-tied babies, the palate is often high and jammed together.

CST or osteopathic treatment is a good idea. Most of these babies really like to suck on a finger to help move it too, mom can put her finger on the ridge and gently direct energy on the lower side - on the ridge, like you are 'pushing' it back to the side- not sure if I am describing this adequately via email... Treating the whole baby with CST is preferable, since restrictions in other areas can contribute as well.

Healy

Seattle, WA

[Guest guest]

Just like the other cranial bones can override, so can the maxilla and premaxilla (maxillary suture override). and Dee summed it up beautifully and CST would definitely help but the provider needs to be good at inner oral work. Lyla, you said the wt gain was good but chomping was still occurring. I’d be curious to see if the frenulum had been adequately released and if the baby received adequate post frenotomy support. The baby still seems to be making some compensatory movements and perhaps can’t elevate the tongue to the palate to help spread the override naturally yet. You asked what submucosal clefts look like…they usually appear like faint white line or don’t have a visual appearance at all at times. Often a bifid uvula is present. Sometimes shining a pen light on the palate will reveal a submucosal cleft, etc. Cole

[Guest guest]

thank you everyone for all the great info. cathy genna wrote this:

â€That certainly could be a sign of a sub mucosal cleft, but it could also just be slightly delayed closure. Are the baby's eyes far apart? That increases the risk...â€

can you feel a submucosal cleft (is it softer in the middle?)

also – if baby gains well and does fine, can submucosal clefts still cause problems later? as in, do they need to be repaired or are they usually left alone?

I am pretty sure she saw hertler, melissa, although I am not positive. I also encouraged her to get CST and I am fairly certain she did that too, though not sure how much. and unfortunately, as I said, I did not get a chance to do an evaluation on the baby and my observation of her nursing was from afar and only for a minute or two. she wasn’t being positioned ideally either, and mom said she gags easily if brought too close in (mom says her nipples protrude a lot) – I am not so sure. I think this is a case of needing to back off and not give help where no help requested. but if I hear her talk about issues, I can explore more later. she is seeing an ibclc, but not you or anyone from bb

I’d love to learn more about sub-m cleft though, as clearly I don’t know much!

lyla

From: Cole

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 10:46 AM

To:

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palate

Just like the other cranial bones can override, so can the maxilla and premaxilla (maxillary suture override). and Dee summed it up beautifully and CST would definitely help but the provider needs to be good at inner oral work. Lyla, you said the wt gain was good but chomping was still occurring. I’d be curious to see if the frenulum had been adequately released and if the baby received adequate post frenotomy support. The baby still seems to be making some compensatory movements and perhaps can’t elevate the tongue to the palate to help spread the override naturally yet. You asked what submucosal clefts look like…they usually appear like faint white line or don’t have a visual appearance at all at times. Often a bifid uvula is present. Sometimes shining a pen light on the palate will reveal a submucosal cleft, etc.

Cole

[Guest guest]

yes, glued on string. that's it! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/Facebook: www.facebook.com/thesecond9months--- Subject: Re: Re:

question about ridge in middle of palateTo: Date: Monday, May 16, 2011, 11:01 AM

thank you everyone for all the great info. cathy genna wrote this:

â€That certainly could be a sign of a sub mucosal cleft, but it could also just be slightly delayed closure. Are the baby's eyes far apart? That increases the risk...â€

can you feel a submucosal cleft (is it softer in the middle?)

also – if baby gains well and does fine, can submucosal clefts still cause problems later? as in, do they need to be repaired or are they usually left alone?

I am pretty sure she saw hertler, melissa, although I am not positive. I also encouraged her to get CST and I am fairly certain she did that too, though not sure how much. and unfortunately, as I said, I did not get a chance to do an evaluation on the baby and my observation of her nursing was from afar and only for a minute or two. she wasn’t being positioned ideally either, and mom said she gags easily if brought too close in (mom says her nipples protrude a lot) – I am not so sure. I think this is a case of needing to back off and not give help where no help requested. but if I hear her talk about issues, I can explore more later. she is seeing an ibclc, but not you or anyone from bb

I’d love to learn more about sub-m cleft though, as clearly I don’t know much!

lyla

From: Cole

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 10:46 AM

To:

Subject: Re: question about ridge in middle of palate

Just like the other cranial bones can override, so can the maxilla and premaxilla (maxillary suture override). and Dee summed it up beautifully and CST would definitely help but the provider needs to be good at inner oral work. Lyla, you said the wt gain was good but chomping was still occurring. I’d be curious to see if the frenulum had been adequately released and if the baby received adequate post frenotomy support. The baby still seems to be making some compensatory movements and perhaps can’t elevate the tongue to the palate to help spread the override naturally yet. You asked what submucosal clefts look like…they usually appear like faint white line or don’t have a visual appearance at all at times. Often a bifid uvula is present. Sometimes shining a pen light on the palate will reveal a submucosal cleft, etc. Cole

[Guest guest]

I'm wondering if your client has a palatal torus. These come in all shapes and

sizes and can crop up at any point in time. Once there, they generally don't go

away. They do tend to run in families in my experience. They can be big

irregular growths, but the most common one I've run across runs right along the

palate midline, and tends to end in a bit of a tear drop. (Picture a 3-D version

of a raindrop with an extra long tail.)

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the palatal torus info that was posted, quite interesting to Google more on it. I have seen an felt a mandibular torus (felt like a stray tooth under protruding from the gums almost) on a mother I was working with. She had me feel hers (although she didn’t label it a torus) to compare to what we were feeling in her baby’s mouth (baby had midline issues for sure but no torus that I could tell). Fun stuff, I love interesting anatomy! Cole

[Guest guest]

That extra tooth reference is feasible. My son had a supernumerary in his palate

which they removed when he was @ 4. I suppose this would normally get caught

with a dental x-ray?

>

> Thanks for the palatal torus info that was posted, quite interesting to

> Google more on it. I have seen an felt a mandibular torus (felt like a stray

> tooth under protruding from the gums almost) on a mother I was working with.

> She had me feel hers (although she didn't label it a torus) to compare to

> what we were feeling in her baby's mouth (baby had midline issues for sure

> but no torus that I could tell). Fun stuff, I love interesting anatomy!

>

>

>

> Cole

>

[Guest guest]

Jaye,

I so agree with you about practitioners dismissing one another. I have seen

quite a few babies with these ridges and they all have other issues whether it

be TT or some other structural or neurological issues. I have also seen the

ridge pretty much disappear with bodywork (after clipping the TT).

Tow, IBCLC, France

>

> I have had 2 babies with ridges right down the center of the palate - they

> were siblings - both tongue tied. Here is the weird thing: Lyla and

> - the ridges you saw - did they protrude down into the oral cavity? These

> two kidlets did. One had a very sharp edge and not as much. Looked like a

> small mountain range upside down. I have pictures. :-)

>

>

>

> I was told they were a torus - but when I did my research on Torus' they

> looked nothing like the ridges I saw. Nothing.

>

>

>

> Lastly - when you tell someone there is a ridge and they tell you (sight

> unseen) that no there isn't - then they are not listening. And that causes

> me to lose some respect. Why couldn't she simply say: Get me some pictures

> because I am having a hard time visualizing what you are describing. Why

> blow you off? That irks me.

>

>

>

> Warmly,

>

> Jaye

>

>

>

> Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

>

> Breastfeeding Network

>

> Sacramento, CA

>

> www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

>

[Guest guest]

Even if it is a palatal torus, structural work can improve feeding and

potentially impact its development over time.

Tow, IBCLC, France

> >

> > Thanks for the palatal torus info that was posted, quite interesting to

> > Google more on it. I have seen an felt a mandibular torus (felt like a stray

> > tooth under protruding from the gums almost) on a mother I was working with.

> > She had me feel hers (although she didn't label it a torus) to compare to

> > what we were feeling in her baby's mouth (baby had midline issues for sure

> > but no torus that I could tell). Fun stuff, I love interesting anatomy!

> >

> >

> >

> > Cole

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This is all so fascinating to me.  I have a significant ridge on my palate, but never knew it wasn't normal.  According to all I'm reading, I also have a posterior TT that must have stretched, because I have full mobility of the tongue, AFAIK.  My daughter, who nursed for 6 years, has the same big thick lingual frenulum that I have and see in photos.  One can't sweep under either of our tongues.  I haven't checked my son yet.

I need to get my hands (fingers) on a completely normal tongue and palate so that I'm not using myself as a baseline!!Lynn in MO

[Guest guest]

And to me, i also have a significant ridge on my palate, and also thought that was Normal...... I also have a very narrow palate, but full range of movement in tongue.....and no tongue tie.....have two children who have had tongue ties......

But part of the interest for me is that since I learned more about tongue tie I have questioned my mother as to whether my tongue tie was cut when I was a baby (1957 Ireland, she was the only mother feeding in the whole hospital!!!!, well thats according to her)  She is adamant my tongue was not cut, but with the very narrow palate, and the significant orthodontal work that had to be endured.....I wonder did they do this and not even tell her.  Wouldn't be without precedent in this country!!!  There were far more significant issues not told to mothers in this country.....and remember this was in the era of O'Driscoll and his Management of Labour and God Like Status.....

mmmmGer-- Geraldine Cahill, IBCLC, BAced.Childbirth & Breastfeeding Educator

Lactation Consultant (Private Practice)President, Cuidiúwww.babyontheway.eu

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