Guest guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 You're normal . As normal as celiacs get. My kids are both gluten intolerant, diagnosed very young. I'm headed out the door but will tell our story when I get back. Lynn Hello Wise Ones, We are all familiar with dairy and soy protein intolerances, but I'm wondering if any of you have ever worked with a mom/s and baby duo that have dealt with gluten intolerance? I am asking for personal and professional reasons. I have had 2 boys that were extremely slow gainers inspite of adequate or more than adequate milk intake. If I wasn't an LC and had the ability to monitor intake I would have pediatricians freaking out. Anyway, long story short, my 7 year old (thanks to me and a lot of research--oops that's another soap box) has finally been tested for gluten intolerance and sure enough he's positive. When my baby (now 10 months old) started showing more and more signs that my older child did I started to wonder if he too could be gluten intolerant. We are already dairy and soy free, so that has been ruled out. Still slow gain and delayed motor skills and reflux weird, weird poop, and...the list goes on (all being gluten symptoms). From about 4 or 5 months on his weight gain dropped to like 1 or 2 ounces a week. However, after 3 weeks of gluten free weight gain jumped to an average of 5 or 6 ounces a week (at 10 months old). I think he's playing catch up. So anyway, it is looking like now that his gut has/is healed/ing, he is absorbing nutrients sooo much better. So, I guess the point of this e-mail is: Have any of you ever seen this before or are we possible flukes? Is there any research out there on this that I am just not finding? And I thought it might be good information if you have or ever do have a client who's baby just won't gain wieght inspite of all breastfeeding signs being good. I know it is only anecdotal, but anecdotes have helped me with ideas immensely over the years. Deirdre Cannon, IBCLC, RLC For Babies' Sake Fort Worth/Dallas, TX www.forbabiessake.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hello Deidre, I have a daughter diagnosed with Celiac Disease when she was nearly 4 years old. She was always thin and complained about bellyaches, but either than those she grew very normally. Oh! Moreover, she nursed even that *grand age* like a very young baby (6-8 times a day.) The only reason we ever found out that she was ill, because she was away from me for about 48 hours (no breastmilk) and when she came back home she bled rectally for nearly 2 weeks. As you guess after many tests etc, they finally checked her for Celiac and it was positive. When I questioned why she didn't show any developmental delays like a *normal* celiac baby would, both the Professor Fasano at UM Medical School and the dietician at the Ped GI clinic told me that it was because she was still nursing. Nursing was giving her enough to keep her going. She was digesting enough to grow as well as Bmlk was healing her inflamed bowels while the gluten shredding to bits. Therefore, I would personally challenge those twits in the UK (being British, I am giving my self to make this judgement) saying that nursing exclusively for 6 months increases the incidence of celiac. (The article in the BMJ) All said and done, where so many things could go wrong I still feel we got away with it easily as all we had to do adjust our diet and took out the gluten. My youngest showing the similar growth rate (very thin and tall, diarrhoea if he eats more than a slice of bread, etc) at home we all are GF. Anyway, the second thing I wanted to mention is Celiac positive mothers are more or less always overproducers. (Sometimes it is very hard to keep their baby from drowning.) In addition, a common mistake for many people Celiac disease is not an allergy it is an autoimmune disease meaning unless allergy (which can go away one day as it started) autoimmune disease is here to stay with you until the end of your days. Kindly, Ann F. Ann Faust, IBCLC, BA (Hons), RLC, LLLL, DA BABY AND ME LACTATION SERVICES LLC Pregnancy to Weaning All About Breastfeeding www.BabyAndMeLC.com annfaust@... Facebook: Baby And Me Lactation Services phone: Advisory Notice: Email is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, Title 18, Sections 2510-2521 of the United States Code and is legally privileged. Internet email is inherently insecure. Message content may be subject to alteration, and email addresses may incorrectly identify the sender. If you wish to confirm the content of this message and/or the identity of the sender, please call me. This email transmission, and any documents, files, or previous email messages attached to it may be privileged and confidential, and are intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named in the address field. The information contained in this electronic message is information protected by health provider-client and or the health provider/work product privilege. It is intended only for the use of the individual named above and the privileges are not waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please call me or return email and delete it and any attachments from your computer. This email does not create a health provider-client relationship. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 My son was diagnosed with gluten intolerance at the age of 2.5 years. He nursed at least every two hours (more like hourly) around the clock until he was past 3yo, and continued until 6.5yo. Grew like gangbusters and didn't have solids at all until ten months, nothing more than a bite until 18mo. I have read, though I cannot give a citation, that breastmilk stimulates the growth of villi in babies, and the act of nursing makes it happen in moms too. Perhaps this is part of the reason moms get more efficient about calorie use and can make milk without eating more? His " catch-up " after diagnosis had more to do with language, fine motor skills, and temperament. He finally didn't feel bad all the time and his brain could get busy with other things. It was quite dramatic. At this point, we are able to eat out at restaurants and generally not worry about cross-contamination or even tiny amounts of wheat, like what can be in soy sauce. I think he just has so many villi that he can handle losing a few here and there, and then he heals just fine. He had a massive exposure a few weeks ago when I wasn't there and someone who should have known better told him some lo mein noodles were gf. He got a bellyache but has bounced right back. My daughter has the genetic predisposition for celiac, so we have never purposely exposed her. She did however have a substantial exposure to spelt at preschool, three days a week for a month, before the mistake was discovered, and she most certainly had bowel and mood changes. I am glad she was still nursing, because I figure it helped her heal. I have no idea how early introduction of gluten could be a good thing, and I would never let one of my babies be a guinea pig for something that could potential be so terrible. Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I have personal experience with this with my children, and because of that have talked to many other moms over the last ten years. I would be happy to talk more if you want to email me. Celiac is much more common than is diagnosed in this country. Sonya To: Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 12:57:35 AMSubject: the breastfed baby and gluten intolerance Hello Wise Ones, We are all familiar with dairy and soy protein intolerances, but I'm wondering if any of you have ever worked with a mom/s and baby duo that have dealt with gluten intolerance? I am asking for personal and professional reasons. I have had 2 boys that were extremely slow gainers inspite of adequate or more than adequate milk intake. If I wasn't an LC and had the ability to monitor intake I would have pediatricians freaking out. Anyway, long story short, my 7 year old (thanks to me and a lot of research--oops that's another soap box) has finally been tested for gluten intolerance and sure enough he's positive. When my baby (now 10 months old) started showing more and more signs that my older child did I started to wonder if he too could be gluten intolerant. We are already dairy and soy free, so that has been ruled out. Still slow gain and delayed motor skills and reflux weird, weird poop, and...the list goes on (all being gluten symptoms). From about 4 or 5 months on his weight gain dropped to like 1 or 2 ounces a week. However, after 3 weeks of gluten free weight gain jumped to an average of 5 or 6 ounces a week (at 10 months old). I think he's playing catch up. So anyway, it is looking like now that his gut has/is healed/ing, he is absorbing nutrients sooo much better. So, I guess the point of this e-mail is: Have any of you ever seen this before or are we possible flukes? Is there any research out there on this that I am just not finding? And I thought it might be good information if you have or ever do have a client who's baby just won't gain wieght inspite of all breastfeeding signs being good. I know it is only anecdotal, but anecdotes have helped me with ideas immensely over the years. Deirdre Cannon, IBCLC, RLC For Babies' Sake Fort Worth/Dallas, TX www.forbabiessake.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I think that gluten-intolerance is very prevalent in our population right now and is often confused with colic, GER, slow weight gain....just to name a few. I have both personal and professional experience with this subject. My son, (5yrs), was diagnosed with gluten intolerance almost a year ago. Now looking back at the signs it seems so obvious to me. I was severely gluten-intolerant while pregnant, although once Ben was born I went back to tolerating gluten just fine. Ben's doctor thought he had a milk protein allergy, which never was solved with a dairy elimination diet. He gained weight well, but was constantly uncomfortable with gas and spit up non-stop. As an older infant and toddler he was developmentally delayed in all motor skills and language skills. He was eventually diagnosed with sensory-integration disorder and we have been dealing with this ever since. Once we removed gluten from his diet, he was a new kid! His mood swings subsided, his health improved, yet he still suffers from sensory-integration issues and lack of some motor skills. I feel like if someone had known more about this intolerance 5 years ago, we may not be in this same situation with my son. I realize that everything happens for a reason and now I am better adept at helping my clients who are dealing with gluten intolerance, since I know what to look for. Now when I am seeing signs in a baby that clue me in to gluten intolerance, I pair my client up with a local functional nutritionist who helps them with a gluten elimination diet. I would love to see more research on this topic. It is funny to me that this recent BMJ article talks about an increased risk of gluten-intolerance if you breastfeed for 6 mo, however every holistic, non-western practitioner I saw regarding my son made an immediate connection to my symptoms while I was pregnant with Ben. So, you tell me how breastfeeding predisposed him to gluten-intolernace....I don't think so! Also, my son gained weight very rapidly between 1 mo and 1 year, so that is not always a sign. He DID, however, significantly slow down after 1 year, which was very concerning. This also coincided when he started to feed himself all of those delicious gluten-laden foods....bagels, cheerios, goldfish, etc. So sorry for the long post. I am obviously very passionate about this subject. I would love to hear more. Warmly, Robin Kaplan, M.Ed., IBCLC, RLC San Diego Breastfeeding Center, LLC www.sdbfc.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 The bulk of my work as an LC in recent years has drifted toward working with kids with gut issues. I have worked with many, many kids with blatant gluten intolerance and personally think all humans are likely gluten intolerant to some degree. I have had babies come off feeding tubes, rapidly regain birth weight, overcome FTT and make huge developmental leaps in coming off gluten. I have a yahoogroup for my clients and I would say that a third- half are dealing with gluten intolerance. Personally, I was diagnosed with celiac disease 8 years ago and my 12 year old has been gluten-free for 8 years as well (he tested positive for the antibody--does not have celiac disease) and my other children also have been gluten-free now for about 6 years. I would like to make a personal note--I think that the body has immense capacity for healing and always seeks homeostasis. When we define ourselves by a dis-ease, we limit that capacity. I never use words to describe a person as " celiac " , " diabetic " , etc. How do we ever regain wholeness if we identify ourselves in this way? I do believe one can recover from celiac disease. But, I do not think the human body is meant to digest grains, that they are a starvation food that body does best without. In other words, they might keep us alive in times of famine, but will never allow us to thrive. I work always with mom and baby together--my mantra-- " heal the mother heal the baby " . Gut function in the infant is intrinsically associated with gut function in momma. Tow, IBCLC, Toulouse, FR > > Hello Wise Ones, > > We are all familiar with dairy and soy protein intolerances, but I'm > wondering if any of you have ever worked with a mom/s and baby duo > that have dealt with gluten intolerance? I am asking for personal and > professional reasons. > > I have had 2 boys that were extremely slow gainers inspite of adequate > or more than adequate milk intake. If I wasn't an LC and had the > ability to monitor intake I would have pediatricians freaking out. > Anyway, long story short, my 7 year old (thanks to me and a lot of > research--oops that's another soap box) has finally been tested for > gluten intolerance and sure enough he's positive. When my baby (now 10 > months old) started showing more and more signs that my older child > did I started to wonder if he too could be gluten intolerant. We are > already dairy and soy free, so that has been ruled out. Still slow > gain and delayed motor skills and reflux weird, weird poop, and...the > list goes on (all being gluten symptoms). From about 4 or 5 months on > his weight gain > dropped to like 1 or 2 ounces a week. However, after 3 weeks of gluten > free weight gain jumped to an average of 5 or 6 ounces a week (at 10 > months old). I think he's playing catch up. So anyway, it is looking > like now that his gut has/is healed/ing, he is absorbing nutrients > sooo much better. > > So, I guess the point of this e-mail is: Have any of you ever seen > this before or are we possible flukes? Is there any research out there > on this that I am just not finding? And I thought it might be good > information if you have or ever do have a client who's baby just won't > gain wieght inspite of all breastfeeding signs being good. I know it > is only anecdotal, but anecdotes have helped me with ideas immensely > over the years. > > Deirdre Cannon, IBCLC, RLC > For Babies' Sake > Fort Worth/Dallas, TX > > www.forbabiessake.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I am a newly diagnosed CD (48 years old). After nearly drowning five of my breastfed children, now I may have an explanation. Thank you Ann! Also, one child has another autoimmune disease and one has resolved GERD (FTT - not a happy baby was an understatement). Now in retrospect, you wonder if it is all related. There is an article in Gluten Free for Dummies about babies not being allergic to dairy but allergic to wheat! Very interesting. We may be telling moms to change to wrong allergen.Dana Schmidt, BS, RN, IBCLC, CLECradlehold, DirectorBreastfeeding Education & Supportwww.cradlehold.netwww.facebook.com/cradleholdhttp://twitter.com/cradleholdwww.meetup.com/Wednesday-Afternoon-Weigh-InsProviding the minimum amount of intervention for the minimum amount of time for maximum benefit to mother and babyHidden Booby Trap: Is Your Lactation “Specialist†an Imposter? http://www.bestforbabes.org/2010/03/hidden-booby-trap-is-your-lactation-specialist-an-imposter/--- Subject: Re: the breastfed baby and gluten intoleranceTo: Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 4:38 PM Hello Deidre, I have a daughter diagnosed with Celiac Disease when she was nearly 4 years old. She was always thin and complained about bellyaches, but either than those she grew very normally. Oh! Moreover, she nursed even that *grand age* like a very young baby (6-8 times a day.) The only reason we ever found out that she was ill, because she was away from me for about 48 hours (no breastmilk) and when she came back home she bled rectally for nearly 2 weeks. As you guess after many tests etc, they finally checked her for Celiac and it was positive. When I questioned why she didn't show any developmental delays like a *normal* celiac baby would, both the Professor Fasano at UM Medical School and the dietician at the Ped GI clinic told me that it was because she was still nursing. Nursing was giving her enough to keep her going. She was digesting enough to grow as well as Bmlk was healing her inflamed bowels while the gluten shredding to bits. Therefore, I would personally challenge those twits in the UK (being British, I am giving my self to make this judgement) saying that nursing exclusively for 6 months increases the incidence of celiac. (The article in the BMJ) All said and done, where so many things could go wrong I still feel we got away with it easily as all we had to do adjust our diet and took out the gluten. My youngest showing the similar growth rate (very thin and tall, diarrhoea if he eats more than a slice of bread, etc) at home we all are GF. Anyway, the second thing I wanted to mention is Celiac positive mothers are more or less always overproducers. (Sometimes it is very hard to keep their baby from drowning.) In addition, a common mistake for many people Celiac disease is not an allergy it is an autoimmune disease meaning unless allergy (which can go away one day as it started) autoimmune disease is here to stay with you until the end of your days. Kindly, Ann F. Ann Faust, IBCLC, BA (Hons), RLC, LLLL, DA BABY AND ME LACTATION SERVICES LLC Pregnancy to Weaning All About Breastfeeding www.BabyAndMeLC.com annfaust@... Facebook: Baby And Me Lactation Services phone: Advisory Notice: Email is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, Title 18, Sections 2510-2521 of the United States Code and is legally privileged. Internet email is inherently insecure. Message content may be subject to alteration, and email addresses may incorrectly identify the sender. If you wish to confirm the content of this message and/or the identity of the sender, please call me. This email transmission, and any documents, files, or previous email messages attached to it may be privileged and confidential, and are intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named in the address field. The information contained in this electronic message is information protected by health provider-client and or the health provider/work product privilege. It is intended only for the use of the individual named above and the privileges are not waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please call me or return email and delete it and any attachments from your computer. This email does not create a health provider-client relationship. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I have been saying for 15 years that oversupply and undersupply are two sides to the same coin--inflammation in the body. It's one reason I never rely on block feeding, which just suppresses symptoms and treats nothing. Both need to be treated systemically in the mother. Tow, IBCLc, Toulouse, FR > > > Subject: Re: the breastfed baby and gluten intolerance > To: > Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 4:38 PM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Deidre, > > I have a daughter diagnosed with Celiac > Disease when she was nearly 4 years old. She was always thin and complained > about bellyaches, but either than those she grew very normally. Oh! Moreover, she > nursed even that *grand age* like a very young baby (6-8 times a day.) The only > reason we ever found out that she was ill, because she was away from me for > about 48 hours (no breastmilk) and when she came back home she bled rectally > for nearly 2 weeks. > > Â > > As you guess after many tests etc, they > finally checked her for Celiac and it was positive. When I questioned why she > didn't show any developmental delays like a *normal* celiac baby would, both > the Professor Fasano at UM Medical School and the dietician at the Ped GI > clinic told me that it was because she was still nursing. Nursing was giving > her enough to keep her going. She was digesting enough to grow as well as Bmlk > was healing her inflamed bowels while the gluten shredding to bits. > > Â > > Therefore, I would personally challenge those > twits in the UK > (being British, I am giving my self to make this judgement) saying that nursing > exclusively for 6 months increases the incidence of celiac. (The article in the > BMJ) > > Â > > All said and done, where so many things > could go wrong I still feel we got away with it easily as all we had to do > adjust our diet and took out the gluten. My youngest showing the similar growth > rate (very thin and tall, diarrhoea if he eats more than a slice of bread, etc) > at home we all are GF. > > Â > > Anyway, the second thing I wanted to > mention is Celiac positive mothers are more or less always overproducers. (Sometimes > it is very hard to keep their baby from drowning.) > > Â > > In addition, a common mistake for many > people Celiac disease is not an allergy it is an autoimmune disease meaning > unless allergy (which can go away one day as it started) autoimmune disease is > here to stay with you until the end of your days. > > Â > > Kindly, > > Ann F. > > Ann Faust, IBCLC, BA (Hons), RLC, Â LLLL, DA > > > > BABY AND ME LACTATION SERVICES LLC > > Pregnancy to Weaning All About Breastfeeding > > www.BabyAndMeLC.com > > annfaust@... > > Facebook: Baby And Me Lactation Services > > phone: > > > > > > > > Advisory Notice: Email is > covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, Title 18, Sections > 2510-2521 of the United States Code and is legally privileged. Internet email > is inherently insecure. Message content may be subject to alteration, and email > addresses may incorrectly identify the sender. If you wish to confirm the > content of this message and/or the identity of the sender, please call me. This > email transmission, and any documents, files, or previous email messages > attached to it may be privileged and confidential, and are intended only for > the use of the recipient(s) named in the address field. Â The information > contained in this electronic message is information protected by health > provider-client and or the health provider/work product privilege. Â It is > intended only for the use of the individual named above and the privileges are > not waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail. Â If the > reader of this message is not an intended recipient, or an employee or agent > responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or > its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in > error, please call me or return email and delete it and any attachments from > your computer. This email does not create a health provider-client > relationship. Â Thank you. > > Â > > Â > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Dana,Can you provide the exact location of this article. Regards, Ghislaine Reid, IBCLCConsultante en lactationLactation ConsultantMontreal, Quebec, Canada De : [mailto: ] De la part de Dana SchmidtEnvoyé : 24 janvier 2011 16:20À : Objet : Re: Re: the breastfed baby and gluten intolerance I am a newly diagnosed CD (48 years old). After nearly drowning five of my breastfed children, now I may have an explanation. Thank you Ann! Also, one child has another autoimmune disease and one has resolved GERD (FTT - not a happy baby was an understatement). Now in retrospect, you wonder if it is all related. There is an article in Gluten Free for Dummies about babies not being allergic to dairy but allergic to wheat! Very interesting. We may be telling moms to change to wrong allergen.Dana Schmidt, BS, RN, IBCLC, CLECradlehold, DirectorBreastfeeding Education & Supportwww.cradlehold.netwww.facebook.com/cradleholdhttp://twitter.com/cradleholdwww.meetup.com/Wednesday-Afternoon-Weigh-InsProviding the minimum amount of intervention for the minimum amount of time for maximum benefit to mother and babyHidden Booby Trap: Is Your Lactation “Specialist†an Imposter? http://www.bestforbabes.org/2010/03/hidden-booby-trap-is-your-lactation-specialist-an-imposter/ --- Subject: Re: the breastfed baby and gluten intoleranceTo: Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 4:38 PM Hello Deidre,I have a daughter diagnosed with Celiac Disease when she was nearly 4 years old. She was always thin and complained about bellyaches, but either than those she grew very normally. Oh! Moreover, she nursed even that *grand age* like a very young baby (6-8 times a day.) The only reason we ever found out that she was ill, because she was away from me for about 48 hours (no breastmilk) and when she came back home she bled rectally for nearly 2 weeks. As you guess after many tests etc, they finally checked her for Celiac and it was positive. When I questioned why she didn't show any developmental delays like a *normal* celiac baby would, both the Professor Fasano at UM Medical School and the dietician at the Ped GI clinic told me that it was because she was still nursing. Nursing was giving her enough to keep her going. She was digesting enough to grow as well as Bmlk was healing her inflamed bowels while the gluten shredding to bits. Therefore, I would personally challenge those twits in the UK (being British, I am giving my self to make this judgement) saying that nursing exclusively for 6 months increases the incidence of celiac. (The article in the BMJ) All said and done, where so many things could go wrong I still feel we got away with it easily as all we had to do adjust our diet and took out the gluten. My youngest showing the similar growth rate (very thin and tall, diarrhoea if he eats more than a slice of bread, etc) at home we all are GF. Anyway, the second thing I wanted to mention is Celiac positive mothers are more or less always overproducers. (Sometimes it is very hard to keep their baby from drowning.) In addition, a common mistake for many people Celiac disease is not an allergy it is an autoimmune disease meaning unless allergy (which can go away one day as it started) autoimmune disease is here to stay with you until the end of your days. Kindly,Ann F.Ann Faust, IBCLC, BA (Hons), RLC, LLLL, DABABY AND ME LACTATION SERVICES LLCPregnancy to Weaning All About Breastfeedingwww.BabyAndMeLC.comannfaust@...Facebook: Baby And Me Lactation Servicesphone: Advisory Notice: Email is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, Title 18, Sections 2510-2521 of the United States Code and is legally privileged. Internet email is inherently insecure. Message content may be subject to alteration, and email addresses may incorrectly identify the sender. If you wish to confirm the content of this message and/or the identity of the sender, please call me. This email transmission, and any documents, files, or previous email messages attached to it may be privileged and confidential, and are intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named in the address field. The information contained in this electronic message is information protected by health provider-client and or the health provider/work product privilege. It is intended only for the use of the individual named above and the privileges are not waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please call me or return email and delete it and any attachments from your computer. This email does not create a health provider-client relationship. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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