Re: breastmilk containing alcohol

[Guest guest]

No, that doesn't happen. That ONLY happens with radioactive drugs which dissipate when breastmilk is pumped and stored (and at that it needs to be stored for 10 half-lives, not 5 as when it is in the mother's body). Not with alcohol or any other drugs. If there is alcohol in the breastmilk it will stay in the breastmilk....just like it stays in the bottle of wine....

A lot of people have gotten confused, thinking that drugs/alcohol/herbs will leave the breastmilk if it pumped and stored. But no, it is only radio-active drugs (see Tom Hale and the American College of Radiology).

Jan

Hello to all,While attending a breastfeeding class last night there was a discussion about breastfeeding and drinking alcohol. The instructor stated that expressed breastmilk that contains alcohol does not need to be dumped, that the breastmilk will eliminate the alcohol on its own.For example: mom drinks a glass or two of beer and she is feeling the effects of the alcohol. She could pump, store the milk that would contain alcohol, wait until she is no longer feeling the effect of the alcohol and the pumped milk would no longer have the alcohol in it. Or she could save it for a later date and use it then.Does anyone have research on this? BA, IBCLCLLL LeaderP.P. From Heart 2 TummyLC @ Tulare Region Medical Center (Note that I am not an RN hehehehe)

[Guest guest]

I just attended a session on this subject by this incredible scientist. the bottom line is, mom should have her drink right AFTER feeding the baby. It's probably ok occasionally to bf after a drink, but don't make a habit of it. She didn't say anything about freezing milk. certainly no need to pump and dump.... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- On Wed, 1/19/11, submama4

wrote:Subject: breastmilk containing alcoholTo: Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 2:08 PM

Hello to all,

While attending a breastfeeding class last night there was a discussion about breastfeeding and drinking alcohol. The instructor stated that expressed breastmilk that contains alcohol does not need to be dumped, that the breastmilk will eliminate the alcohol on its own.

For example: mom drinks a glass or two of beer and she is feeling the effects of the alcohol. She could pump, store the milk that would contain alcohol, wait until she is no longer feeling the effect of the alcohol and the pumped milk would no longer have the alcohol in it. Or she could save it for a later date and use it then.

Does anyone have research on this?

BA, IBCLC

LLL Leader

P.P. From Heart 2 Tummy

LC @ Tulare Region Medical Center (Note that I am not an RN hehehehe)

[Guest guest]

I was taught that if a mom breastfeeds, then drinks an alcoholic beverage that

for most moms, in 2-3 hours, when baby is ready to eat again her body will have

metabolized the alcohol. Of course we all metabolize alcohol differently

according to body wt, liver function, etc. So because a mom's milk alcohol

level is the same as her blood alcohol level, she should wait until she is no

longer feeling the affects of the alcohol before breastfeeding.

Lavergne

>

> Hello to all,

>

> While attending a breastfeeding class last night there was a discussion about

breastfeeding and drinking alcohol. The instructor stated that expressed

breastmilk that contains alcohol does not need to be dumped, that the breastmilk

will eliminate the alcohol on its own.

>

> For example: mom drinks a glass or two of beer and she is feeling the effects

of the alcohol. She could pump, store the milk that would contain alcohol,

wait until she is no longer feeling the effect of the alcohol and the pumped

milk would no longer have the alcohol in it. Or she could save it for a later

date and use it then.

>

> Does anyone have research on this?

>

> BA, IBCLC

> LLL Leader

> P.P. From Heart 2 Tummy

> LC @ Tulare Region Medical Center (Note that I am not an RN hehehehe)

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds ridiculous to me, how is hte breastmilk going to metabolise the alcohol all on its own. Research I have read states that as the alcohol is metabolised by your body, it will leave the milk in your breast, nothing says it will leave the milk in a bottle at the same rate. So basically if you drink alcohol and your blood alcohol level is .08, then your milk alcohol level will be similar, by the time your blood alcohol level is 0 so will your milk alcohol level be 0, but only for milk in your body at the time. Thus there is no need to pump and dump, unless you are feeling really full and need to express for comfort, while still having high levels of alcohol in your body, that milk will need to be dumped as it will have high levels of alcohol, and will remain that way. So if you have had a couple of drinks and you pump for comfort, then dump that milk, otherwise just wait for your blood alcohol level to drop and then offer the breast to the baby. Also sometimes it is better to give bub breastmilk from the breast with a little alcohol in it than to give formula and of course if you are too drunk to look after your baby you are too drunk to breastfeed. Here is the information I usually use. DonconMarried to Greg, mother to Louise (95), Geoff (98), Suzie (01) and (07, EBM fed for 26 months, read our story here: http://www.lrc.asn.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41257)Joined 1995, Qualified 1998, Cert IV TAA 2006. Cert IV BE 2007, RR Wheatbelt (2006-), Email Counsellor, Course Coordinator Cert IV Hello to all,While attending a breastfeeding class last night there was a discussion about breastfeeding and drinking alcohol. The instructor stated that expressed breastmilk that contains alcohol does not need to be dumped, that the breastmilk will eliminate the alcohol on its own.For example: mom drinks a glass or two of beer and she is feeling the effects of the alcohol. She could pump, store the milk that would contain alcohol, wait until she is no longer feeling the effect of the alcohol and the pumped milk would no longer have the alcohol in it. Or she could save it for a later date and use it then.Does anyone have research on this? BA, IBCLCLLL LeaderP.P. From Heart 2 TummyLC @ Tulare Region Medical Center (Note that I am not an RN hehehehe)------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

 

Hello to all,

While attending a breastfeeding class last night there was a discussion about breastfeeding and drinking alcohol. The instructor stated that expressed breastmilk that contains alcohol does not need to be dumped, that the breastmilk will eliminate the alcohol on its own.

For example: mom drinks a glass or two of beer and she is feeling the effects of the alcohol. She could pump, store the milk that would contain alcohol, wait until she is no longer feeling the effect of the alcohol and the pumped milk would no longer have the alcohol in it. Or she could save it for a later date and use it then.

Does anyone have research on this?This is what Gini Baker teaches in her CLCE and LC classes.  She told us that the " Pump and store " guidelines were for " binge " drinkers who drink a lot in a short amount of time, approximately once a month on weekends.  From my notes, she said that " they can store milk for about 6 months, until baby is older.  Alcohol dissipates over time, but if you do not believe Mom will store the milk, do not give the option. "

She also said that the " social " drinker (less than 1-2 drinks at a time, less than 1-2 times per month or week) does not need to pump and dump the milk. " Baby will go to sleep faster but shorter duration " .

Janet Greenley, CLCECertified Lactation Consultant Educator 

[Guest guest]

Mom can also not dump the milk and if she needs to use it heat it to approximately 172 degrees and the alcohol will evaporate, just as in cooking or when using a tincture and you stir it in some heated water. Some percentage may remain but leaving it open overnight will also cause it to evaporate. Probably cover it with a gauze or something to keep anything from falling into it.

I'm also going to look further for the lengths of time.

Cheryl n

Hello to all,While attending a breastfeeding class last night there was a discussion about breastfeeding and drinking alcohol. The instructor stated that expressed breastmilk that contains alcohol does not need to be dumped, that the breastmilk will eliminate the alcohol on its own.For example: mom drinks a glass or two of beer and she is feeling the effects of the alcohol. She could pump, store the milk that would contain alcohol, wait until she is no longer feeling the effect of the alcohol and the pumped milk would no longer have the alcohol in it. Or she could save it for a later date and use it then.Does anyone have research on this? BA, IBCLCLLL LeaderP.P. From Heart 2 TummyLC @ Tulare Region Medical Center (Note that I am not an RN hehehehe)------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

You will find good information and a very detailed chart on the MotheRisk Website from Toronto’s Sick Children Hospital : http://www.motherisk.org/women/updatesDetail.jsp?content_id=347 The article was written in 2002, but I believe it is still up to date. Ghislaine Reid, IBCLCMontreal, Quebec, Canada De : [mailto: ] De la part de Cheryl nEnvoyé : 19 janvier 2011 21:29À : Objet : Re: breastmilk containing alcohol Mom can also not dump the milk and if she needs to use it heat it to approximately 172 degrees and the alcohol will evaporate, just as in cooking or when using a tincture and you stir it in some heated water. Some percentage may remain but leaving it open overnight will also cause it to evaporate. Probably cover it with a gauze or something to keep anything from falling into it. I'm also going to look further for the lengths of time. Cheryl nHello to all,While attending a breastfeeding class last night there was a discussion about breastfeeding and drinking alcohol. The instructor stated that expressed breastmilk that contains alcohol does not need to be dumped, that the breastmilk will eliminate the alcohol on its own.For example: mom drinks a glass or two of beer and she is feeling the effects of the alcohol. She could pump, store the milk that would contain alcohol, wait until she is no longer feeling the effect of the alcohol and the pumped milk would no longer have the alcohol in it. Or she could save it for a later date and use it then.Does anyone have research on this? BA, IBCLCLLL LeaderP.P. From Heart 2 TummyLC @ Tulare Region Medical Center (Note that I am not an RN hehehehe)------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Not that I have any evidence to back it up, but it seems nonsense to me...

A mother’s blood will clear the alcohol and if all the alcohol in her blood is gone, her milk will also be clear.

There is no need to pump, simply the need to wait with breastfeeding!

She’d better pump *before* taking the alcohol, so that she has milk available in case her child needs it.

It’s the physiology of bodily functions, in my understanding, that clears the alcohol from the body fluids, blood as well as milk.

I mean... how can the body clear a fluid that is not in the body...? :-s It really makes no sense to me at all.

There seems to be a common misunderstanding, though, about the so called need to pump after drinking alcohol.

I mean... if a mom pumps and she either dumps or puts the milk in the fridge... the next feeding will still contain milk, if it is given within the few hour’s limit of clearance!

Not feeling effects anymore, does not mean your blood is cleared. After two glasses of an alcohol containing drink (no matter if it is two glasses of wine or two glasses of beer... as long as the drink is served in the appropriate glass, the actual amount of alcohol will be about the same), you should not give milk (to pump or to babe) for about four, five or six hours. Clearance also depends on the weight of the person drinking, so times can vary.

Before those hours have gone by, you will give alcohol containing milk. After those hours have gone by, the milk is clear.

I think moms should know this, so they can plan accordingly if, after all those months of pregnancy, they want to enjoy a glass of wine.

Let’s not make breastfeeding more difficult and off-putting then it already is with the many ridiculous suggestions going around! ;o)

Bye,

nne Vanderveen IBCLC, Netherlands

From: submama4

Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:08 PM

To:

Subject: breastmilk containing alcohol

Hello to all,While attending a breastfeeding class last night there was a discussion about breastfeeding and drinking alcohol. The instructor stated that expressed breastmilk that contains alcohol does not need to be dumped, that the breastmilk will eliminate the alcohol on its own.For example: mom drinks a glass or two of beer and she is feeling the effects of the alcohol. She could pump, store the milk that would contain alcohol, wait until she is no longer feeling the effect of the alcohol and the pumped milk would no longer have the alcohol in it. Or she could save it for a later date and use it then.Does anyone have research on this? BA, IBCLCLLL LeaderP.P. From Heart 2 TummyLC @ Tulare Region Medical Center (Note that I am not an RN hehehehe)

[Guest guest]

Aah, sorry... something funny was going on with my mailboxes.

I didn’t notice that this question had already been answered by several others... ;-)

M.

From: nne Vanderveen-Kolkena

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:36 AM

To:

Subject: Re: breastmilk containing alcohol

Hi ,

Not that I have any evidence to back it up, but it seems nonsense to me...

A mother’s blood will clear the alcohol and if all the alcohol in her blood is gone, her milk will also be clear.

There is no need to pump, simply the need to wait with breastfeeding!

She’d better pump *before* taking the alcohol, so that she has milk available in case her child needs it.

It’s the physiology of bodily functions, in my understanding, that clears the alcohol from the body fluids, blood as well as milk.

I mean... how can the body clear a fluid that is not in the body...? :-s It really makes no sense to me at all.

There seems to be a common misunderstanding, though, about the so called need to pump after drinking alcohol.

I mean... if a mom pumps and she either dumps or puts the milk in the fridge... the next feeding will still contain milk, if it is given within the few hour’s limit of clearance!

Not feeling effects anymore, does not mean your blood is cleared. After two glasses of an alcohol containing drink (no matter if it is two glasses of wine or two glasses of beer... as long as the drink is served in the appropriate glass, the actual amount of alcohol will be about the same), you should not give milk (to pump or to babe) for about four, five or six hours. Clearance also depends on the weight of the person drinking, so times can vary.

Before those hours have gone by, you will give alcohol containing milk. After those hours have gone by, the milk is clear.

I think moms should know this, so they can plan accordingly if, after all those months of pregnancy, they want to enjoy a glass of wine.

Let’s not make breastfeeding more difficult and off-putting then it already is with the many ridiculous suggestions going around! ;o)

Bye,

nne Vanderveen IBCLC, Netherlands

From: submama4

Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:08 PM

To:

Subject: breastmilk containing alcohol

Hello to all,While attending a breastfeeding class last night there was a discussion about breastfeeding and drinking alcohol. The instructor stated that expressed breastmilk that contains alcohol does not need to be dumped, that the breastmilk will eliminate the alcohol on its own.For example: mom drinks a glass or two of beer and she is feeling the effects of the alcohol. She could pump, store the milk that would contain alcohol, wait until she is no longer feeling the effect of the alcohol and the pumped milk would no longer have the alcohol in it. Or she could save it for a later date and use it then.Does anyone have research on this? BA, IBCLCLLL LeaderP.P. From Heart 2 TummyLC @ Tulare Region Medical Center (Note that I am not an RN hehehehe)

[Guest guest]

If she's so drunk she better not bottle feed the baby either as she might drop him/her.

And if she is that drunk, how much milk will the baby get anyway as her MER will be as impaired as the rest of her reflexes.

Years ago Jack N. said at a conference words to the effect of: "A glass of wine? We give mothers morphine, Demerol, Codeine, Zoloft, Vicodan and plenty of other mind-altering drugs and we are worried about a glass of wine???"

Jan

If however mom is so drunk she may drop the baby, then please do not breastfeed – mainly because it is a safety issue for the baby possibly being dropped.

[Guest guest]

OMG. I'm really sorry, but what science class has that educator ever taken?

That is right up there with other stupid statements. The only reason why

alcohol declines in milk is because the BODY metabolizes it. A closed container

is not a human body and cannot metabolize out the breastmilk. Does the alcohol

in wine or beer or vodka simply disappear if you put it in a closed container?

Between the British Medical Journals publishing the opinion piece consisting of

confirmation bias arguments and the media translating it into breastfeeding

causes harm to the hideous Wakefield fraud -- changing and faking data to serve

his own ends -- I just feel like science knowledge is in the toilet.

Best regards,

E. Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

[Guest guest]

You know, I've never told anyone to leave the milk out and open to evaporate I only read that ethanol alcohol will do that and, again, no science behind that without further digging. SO, I am saying I would NOT use that as a reliable thing and tell a mother that. Our wine bottles still have alcohol in them when left out and open overnight.

I have always learned the same as some others, to pump and dump if you are full and that the alcohol in your milk is directly correlated to what is in you blood. But for the mother that is short on supply (perhaps, she shouldn't be drinking at all because that can hinder letdown, and subsequently supply) the bit that she pumps could be labeled and then if she needs it, heated and even blended with other milk. To do a test (I am curious now and will need some volunteers) I think getting those test strips to see if there is any alcohol left after the heating would be a good idea.

Jan, I think you are right, the person teaching that it evaporates or disappears in a closed container, must be confusing it with the radioactive guidelines. I've discussed that with mothers before and even those have to be given enough time to break down.

If alcohol evaporated in a closed container we would have no drinking alcohol to be worried about! : )

Cheryl n

Hello to all,While attending a breastfeeding class last night there was a discussion about breastfeeding and drinking alcohol. The instructor stated that expressed breastmilk that contains alcohol does not need to be dumped, that the breastmilk will eliminate the alcohol on its own.For example: mom drinks a glass or two of beer and she is feeling the effects of the alcohol. She could pump, store the milk that would contain alcohol, wait until she is no longer feeling the effect of the alcohol and the pumped milk would no longer have the alcohol in it. Or she could save it for a later date and use it then.Does anyone have research on this? BA, IBCLCLLL LeaderP.P. From Heart 2 TummyLC @ Tulare Region Medical Center (Note that I am not an RN hehehehe)------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

The store it and it will go away recommendation sounds like

nonsense to me too – it makes no sense. I’d like to see

references and proof on that one. And pumping and dumping is

outdated. All these restrictions make it difficult for mothers to have a

life and just be adults. A drink or two is no big deal. However, if

mom is an alcoholic that is another story and requires different handling and

education to protect both the baby and the mother.

This comment in particular really bothered me: “This is

what Gini Baker teaches in her CLCE and LC classes. She told us that the

" Pump and store " guidelines were for " binge " drinkers who

drink a lot in a short amount of time, approximately once a month on weekends.

From my notes, she said that " they can store milk for about 6 months,

until baby

is older. Alcohol dissipates over time, but if you do not believe Mom will store

the milk, do not give the option. " “

First off – seriously? She is saying to not give

out information based on our personal belief that the mother may or may not

listen to us? That sounds very unethical to me. Withholding

information is NOT what is in our code of ethics – informed consent and

then let the adult decide is what I was taught. I’d like to

hear from Gini herself that this is really what she is teaching and not a

misinterpretation (no offence intended to the poster of the comment) of her

comments.

Next quote: “She also said that the " social " drinker (less than

1-2 drinks at a time, less than 1-2 times per month or week) does not need to

pump and dump the milk. " Baby will go to sleep faster but shorter

duration " .”

Again – where is the proof that babies sleep

longer? Where are the references? NONE – I repeat NONE of my

clients have ever reported their babies sleeping longer after mom had a glass

or two – and I have asked. And there is no way that little alcohol

is going to create a blood alcohol level so high that baby will actually be

affected by it.

I saw Jack Newman a few years ago and his response to the

alcohol thing was: It’s a numbers game. Baby will NOT get drunk or

even tipsy if mother has alcohol on board. If mom drinks 4 shots of Jack

’s, let’s say, and her alcohol level goes up to .08% that is what

the baby gets – 8-hundreths of a % - not the 4 shots of 50proof JD.

The baby’s body then processes that down even more and the baby has no

issue. Baby might not like the taste of the milk…but the alcohol is

not the issue. If however mom is so drunk she may drop the baby, then

please do not breastfeed – mainly because it is a safety issue for the

baby possibly being dropped.

I give my moms this information and let them know that while

it is better to feed just before drinking, not to stress out too much if they

have had a glass or two of wine or beer and baby suddenly decides it is time to

eat.

Here is a link from the LLLI website on the subject: http://www.llli.org/FAQ/alcohol.html

And From Jack’s Myths handouts – see #5 - http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/12pdf.pdf

Lastly, then I’ll get off my soapbox here, Moms are

told all the damn time to Drink Beer to make more milk. How can we, or

anyone tell moms to drink beer to make more milk while telling them to pump and

dump, or pump and store, or don’t drink right before nursing – or whatever?

The contradictions are astounding and quite frankly, asinine. Common

sense, moderation and proper education is what we need – not hearsay,

myth, outdated information and information with no references (in other

words: someone’s opinion).

Warmly,

Jaye

Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM

Breastfeeding Network

Sacramento, CA

www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

I know people who believe other info about wakefield – let’s not mix sciences on the list, or veer into the political

I completely agree with you, on the breastfeeding science – and am unaware of the BMJ article, but sounds bad.

lyla

From: Burger

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:05 AM

To:

Subject: Re: breastmilk containing alcohol

OMG. I'm really sorry, but what science class has that educator ever taken? That is right up there with other stupid statements. The only reason why alcohol declines in milk is because the BODY metabolizes it. A closed container is not a human body and cannot metabolize out the breastmilk. Does the alcohol in wine or beer or vodka simply disappear if you put it in a closed container? Between the British Medical Journals publishing the opinion piece consisting of confirmation bias arguments and the media translating it into breastfeeding causes harm to the hideous Wakefield fraud -- changing and faking data to serve his own ends -- I just feel like science knowledge is in the toilet.Best regards, E. Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

[Guest guest]

thank you Jaye. you said what I wanted to say but I was too lazy! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: breastmilk containing

alcoholTo: Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 7:06 AM

Hi All, The store it and it will go away recommendation sounds like

nonsense to me too – it makes no sense. I’d like to see

references and proof on that one. And pumping and dumping is

outdated. All these restrictions make it difficult for mothers to have a

life and just be adults. A drink or two is no big deal. However, if

mom is an alcoholic that is another story and requires different handling and

education to protect both the baby and the mother. This comment in particular really bothered me: “This is

what Gini Baker teaches in her CLCE and LC classes. She told us that the

"Pump and store" guidelines were for "binge" drinkers who

drink a lot in a short amount of time, approximately once a month on weekends.

From my notes, she said that "they can store milk for about 6 months,

until baby

is older. Alcohol dissipates over time, but if you do not believe Mom will store

the milk, do not give the option." “ First off – seriously? She is saying to not give

out information based on our personal belief that the mother may or may not

listen to us? That sounds very unethical to me. Withholding

information is NOT what is in our code of ethics – informed consent and

then let the adult decide is what I was taught. I’d like to

hear from Gini herself that this is really what she is teaching and not a

misinterpretation (no offence intended to the poster of the comment) of her

comments.

Next quote: “She also said that the "social" drinker (less than

1-2 drinks at a time, less than 1-2 times per month or week) does not need to

pump and dump the milk. "Baby will go to sleep faster but shorter

duration".†Again – where is the proof that babies sleep

longer? Where are the references? NONE – I repeat NONE of my

clients have ever reported their babies sleeping longer after mom had a glass

or two – and I have asked. And there is no way that little alcohol

is going to create a blood alcohol level so high that baby will actually be

affected by it. I saw Jack Newman a few years ago and his response to the

alcohol thing was: It’s a numbers game. Baby will NOT get drunk or

even tipsy if mother has alcohol on board. If mom drinks 4 shots of Jack

’s, let’s say, and her alcohol level goes up to .08% that is what

the baby gets – 8-hundreths of a % - not the 4 shots of 50proof JD.

The baby’s body then processes that down even more and the baby has no

issue. Baby might not like the taste of the milk…but the alcohol is

not the issue. If however mom is so drunk she may drop the baby, then

please do not breastfeed – mainly because it is a safety issue for the

baby possibly being dropped. I give my moms this information and let them know that while

it is better to feed just before drinking, not to stress out too much if they

have had a glass or two of wine or beer and baby suddenly decides it is time to

eat. Here is a link from the LLLI website on the subject: http://www.llli.org/FAQ/alcohol.html And From Jack’s Myths handouts – see #5 - http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/12pdf.pdf Lastly, then I’ll get off my soapbox here, Moms are

told all the damn time to Drink Beer to make more milk. How can we, or

anyone tell moms to drink beer to make more milk while telling them to pump and

dump, or pump and store, or don’t drink right before nursing – or whatever?

The contradictions are astounding and quite frankly, asinine. Common

sense, moderation and proper education is what we need – not hearsay,

myth, outdated information and information with no references (in other

words: someone’s opinion). Warmly, Jaye Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM Breastfeeding Network Sacramento, CA www.breastfeedingnetwork.net

[Guest guest]

that's rich! love that Jack! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: Re: breastmilk containing alcoholTo: Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 8:44 AM

If she's so drunk she better not bottle feed the baby either as she might drop him/her.

And if she is that drunk, how much milk will the baby get anyway as her MER will be as impaired as the rest of her reflexes.

Years ago Jack N. said at a conference words to the effect of: "A glass of wine? We give mothers morphine, Demerol, Codeine, Zoloft, Vicodan and plenty of other mind-altering drugs and we are worried about a glass of wine???"

Jan

If however mom is so drunk she may drop the baby, then please do not breastfeed – mainly because it is a safety issue for the baby possibly being dropped.

[Guest guest]

I propose that as professionals, we eliminate the phrase " pump and dump, " catchy

and common though it is. It's an ugly phrase. " Dump " implies that the milk has

become filthy and worthless. Usually the phrase is being tossed around casually

in situations where it's not necessary (such as misinformation about alcohol, or

a medication situation that someone isn't willing to research because formula is

viewed as the risk-free alternative).

In a situation where the practice might actually be necessary, such as those few

contraindicated medications, the flippant phrase doesn't recognize that it's a

difficult, unhappy situation, often with a miserable baby who wants to nurse,

and mother sick enough to warrant drastic medications, or a mother on extended

business travel. Such terminology doesn't respect how hard " pumping and dumping "

is -- so maybe something supportive like " pumping and sacrificing the milk in an

abundance of love and caution, until normal breastfeeding can be resumed. "

Margaret Wills, land

cranky this morning

[Guest guest]

I've always suggested moms look at this issue globally so to speak.  Do you really think moms that are in Italy or France where it is common to have a glass of wine with dinner or maybe lunch are pumping and dumping???? Seriously!  I've also heard

reference to the fact that if you are blasted or too drunk to hold the baby perhaps someone else should be taking care of the baby at that moment...you think!Ilene Fabisch, IBCLC/RLCBrockton, MA

 

I propose that as professionals, we eliminate the phrase " pump and dump, " catchy and common though it is. It's an ugly phrase. " Dump " implies that the milk has become filthy and worthless. Usually the phrase is being tossed around casually in situations where it's not necessary (such as misinformation about alcohol, or a medication situation that someone isn't willing to research because formula is viewed as the risk-free alternative).

In a situation where the practice might actually be necessary, such as those few contraindicated medications, the flippant phrase doesn't recognize that it's a difficult, unhappy situation, often with a miserable baby who wants to nurse, and mother sick enough to warrant drastic medications, or a mother on extended business travel. Such terminology doesn't respect how hard " pumping and dumping " is -- so maybe something supportive like " pumping and sacrificing the milk in an abundance of love and caution, until normal breastfeeding can be resumed. "

Margaret Wills, land

cranky this morning

-- Ilene Fabisch, Brockton, MA " Each day is a blank canvas waiting for our unique brushstrokes to create a masterpiece. "

[Guest guest]

That's exactly what I say in my classes!

I propose that as professionals, we eliminate the phrase "pump and dump," catchy and common though it is. It's an ugly phrase. "Dump" implies that the milk has become filthy and worthless. Usually the phrase is being tossed around casually in situations where it's not necessary (such as misinformation about alcohol, or a medication situation that someone isn't willing to research because formula is viewed as the risk-free alternative). In a situation where the practice might actually be necessary, such as those few contraindicated medications, the flippant phrase doesn't recognize that it's a difficult, unhappy situation, often with a miserable baby who wants to nurse, and mother sick enough to warrant drastic medications, or a mother on extended business travel. Such terminology doesn't respect how hard "pumping and dumping" is -- so maybe something supportive like "pumping and sacrificing the milk in an abundance of love and caution, until

normal breastfeeding can be resumed."Margaret Wills, landcranky this morning

-- Ilene Fabisch, Brockton, MA"Each day is a blank canvas waiting for our unique brushstrokes to create a masterpiece."

[Guest guest]

Ilene wrote: <snip>I've always suggested moms look at this

issue globally so to speak. Do you really think moms that are in

Italy or France where it is common to have a glass of wine with

dinner or maybe lunch are pumping and dumping????<snip>

Along those same lines, I've suggested moms look at the issue

historically. In my ancestry (European) often everyone in the family

(even the young children) drank mead and/or beer (maybe because it

was safer than the local water?!) They obviously managed to survive

and thrive, or many of us wouldn't be here!

Theresa Belville

LLLL since 2001, IBCLC candidate 2011

[Guest guest]

Well as far as historically I think we have to tread carefully because we aren't dealing with the same set of circumstances (ie: perhaps unsafe water where it might have been the lesser of two evils).  I always get nervous when we compare historically..too much has changed both as a society and environmentally...perhaps even physiologically????

Ilene

 

Ilene wrote: <snip>I've always suggested moms look at this

issue globally so to speak.  Do you really think moms that are in

Italy or France where it is common to have a glass of wine with

dinner or maybe lunch are pumping and dumping????<snip>

Along those same lines, I've suggested moms look at the issue

historically. In my ancestry (European) often everyone in the family

(even the young children) drank mead and/or beer (maybe because it

was safer than the local water?!)  They obviously managed to survive

and thrive, or many of us wouldn't be here!

Theresa Belville

 LLLL since 2001, IBCLC candidate 2011

-- Ilene Fabisch, Brockton, MA " Each day is a blank canvas waiting for our unique brushstrokes to create a masterpiece. "

[Guest guest]

I agree. I never say that to moms. but easier to be quick and dirty here! how's that for a phrase! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: breastmilk containing

alcoholTo: Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 4:06 AM

I propose that as professionals, we eliminate the phrase "pump and dump," catchy and common though it is. It's an ugly phrase. "Dump" implies that the milk has become filthy and worthless. Usually the phrase is being tossed around casually in situations where it's not necessary (such as misinformation about alcohol, or a medication situation that someone isn't willing to research because formula is viewed as the risk-free alternative).

In a situation where the practice might actually be necessary, such as those few contraindicated medications, the flippant phrase doesn't recognize that it's a difficult, unhappy situation, often with a miserable baby who wants to nurse, and mother sick enough to warrant drastic medications, or a mother on extended business travel. Such terminology doesn't respect how hard "pumping and dumping" is -- so maybe something supportive like "pumping and sacrificing the milk in an abundance of love and caution, until normal breastfeeding can be resumed."

Margaret Wills, land

cranky this morning