Re: Shopping cart experience

[Guest guest]

> I just don't > understand why they would hire a professional and then don't take my advice> OR pick and choose what they like to do.

Hi June -- In my area, there are a lot of physicians who think tongue tie doesn't really impact breastfeeding. We also have a quite a few docs who see the need for clipping but won't do it until the babies are 13 pounds and require general anesthesia. A lot of Americans see doctors as all-seeing, all-knowing, all-wise so it is very confusing and frustrating when the docs are telling them one thing and the LC's tell them another. And if the parents have to pick on their own, often they decide the doc knows more than the LC does (back to the all-knowing thing).

So, I give a lot of anticipatory guidance. I keep a copy of the AAP article written by Coryllos in my bag to give to parents. I also bring Supporting Sucking Skills and show them the pictures in the book. Having an authoritative textbook and a physician-focused article on the subject lends credibility to my observations. If the baby is cooperative, I often show the parents or have them feel the attachment then compare mine and theirs in a mirror so they can see the difference. If it seems like it would be helpful, I also explain in detail how the motion of the tongue controls sucking and swallowing. I also warn the parents that their doctor may give them conflicting advice. If it is a doc that I know won't address tongue tie I tell the parents this and suggest the parents go directly to the ENT that I work with who I know will clip types 1-4 in the office and knows what she is doing. If it is a new doc, I immediately send a report to the doc with a detailed explanation of what I've observed, why it is a problem and what I'm suggesting to the parents. I typically attach a copy of the AAP article with the report.

This has made a huge difference in the number of patients who are following through with clipping. Then, once they have it clipped, they go back to the doctor, tell them what a difference it made and we have the start of a conversion.

I try to remind myself that many of the things I strongly believe in fly in the face of what our culture tells new moms they should be doing and when I go do a consult, it is probably the first time they've met me so I don't have well established credibility with them yet. Hang in there!

Carroll, MA, IBCLC

[Guest guest]

Remember you are just one voice amongst a sea of voices all saying different things. Parents are confused.... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject:

Shopping cart experienceTo: Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 12:07 PM

Hi everyone,I’ve helped 4 moms since I opened my business in June of this year. Three of them had TT issues. All three would not listen to me and get the tongue properly clipped (two did, but didn’t go where I said to and then would not get them re-clipped). I don’t get it. Why do parents think of parenting as a shopping cart experience? I know that have their own wills. I just don’t understand why they would hire a professional and then don’t take my advice OR pick and choose what they like to do. Another example is artificial nipples. Why would you choose things when it’s absolutely against basic lactation education? Here’s another – STS. I tell them all the wonderful things about it and then they promptly bundle them up in 3-4 layers. Many times, I have to show them and remove the

clothes, and place them STS before they even consider it. Then as soon as I leave, they don’t do it much anymore if at all (I ask).I’m wondering if there is a clear, more direct approach that I’m missing. I like to respect mothering instincts and have always believed a mother knows what’s best for her child. I just don’t think many of them are keyed into that instinct and don’t know at what point to get more direct or back off.I’ve been working in a hospital setting the last 3 years in PP and as an IBCLC the last year. I’ve been a LLL Leader for 10 years. I’ve gotten more response there than in my business so far. Also, I feel more appreciated in those areas as well. If I had what I’m offering to people I would have been so grateful, but it seems like people don’t even understand what I have to offer or what the alternative is. Maybe it’s just me or it’s

the culture hear up north. I’m so discouraged right now.June , RN, IBCLCPP doula too

[Guest guest]

Awesomely written response!!! Exactly what I do--I would say 95% of my clients

follow my advice on TT, chiropractic and food allergies, bc I prepare them for

the conflict ahead of time. I will even make sure they have the ped appt and

chiro appt before they leave my office.

Tow, IBCLC, Toulouse, FR

>

>

>

> > I just don't > understand why they would hire a professional and then

> don't take my advice

> > OR pick and choose what they like to do.

>

> Hi June -- In my area, there are a lot of physicians who think tongue

> tie doesn't really impact breastfeeding. We also have a quite a few

> docs who see the need for clipping but won't do it until the babies are

> 13 pounds and require general anesthesia. A lot of Americans see

> doctors as all-seeing, all-knowing, all-wise so it is very confusing and

> frustrating when the docs are telling them one thing and the LC's tell

> them another. And if the parents have to pick on their own, often they

> decide the doc knows more than the LC does (back to the all-knowing

> thing).

>

> So, I give a lot of anticipatory guidance. I keep a copy of the AAP

> article written by Coryllos in my bag to give to parents. I

> also bring Supporting Sucking Skills and show them the pictures in the

> book. Having an authoritative textbook and a physician-focused article

> on the subject lends credibility to my observations. If the baby is

> cooperative, I often show the parents or have them feel the attachment

> then compare mine and theirs in a mirror so they can see the difference.

> If it seems like it would be helpful, I also explain in detail how the

> motion of the tongue controls sucking and swallowing. I also warn the

> parents that their doctor may give them conflicting advice. If it is a

> doc that I know won't address tongue tie I tell the parents this and

> suggest the parents go directly to the ENT that I work with who I know

> will clip types 1-4 in the office and knows what she is doing. If it is

> a new doc, I immediately send a report to the doc with a detailed

> explanation of what I've observed, why it is a problem and what I'm

> suggesting to the parents. I typically attach a copy of the AAP article

> with the report.

>

> This has made a huge difference in the number of patients who are

> following through with clipping. Then, once they have it clipped, they

> go back to the doctor, tell them what a difference it made and we have

> the start of a conversion.

>

> I try to remind myself that many of the things I strongly believe in fly

> in the face of what our culture tells new moms they should be doing and

> when I go do a consult, it is probably the first time they've met me so

> I don't have well established credibility with them yet. Hang in there!

>

> Carroll, MA, IBCLC

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I always tell the parents that their ped probably wouldn't notice the TT or view it as a problem b/c it isn't their speciality. Then I tell them that the doc who I'm referring them to is a specialist in breastfeeding and TT issues. Still, some parents choose not to clip. usually the dad is the "no" guy... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- On Mon, 12/27/10,

wrote:Subject: Re: Shopping cart experienceTo: Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 4:46 PM

Awesomely written response!!! Exactly what I do--I would say 95% of my clients follow my advice on TT, chiropractic and food allergies, bc I prepare them for the conflict ahead of time. I will even make sure they have the ped appt and chiro appt before they leave my office.

Tow, IBCLC, Toulouse, FR

>

>

>

> > I just don't > understand why they would hire a professional and then

> don't take my advice

> > OR pick and choose what they like to do.

>

> Hi June -- In my area, there are a lot of physicians who think tongue

> tie doesn't really impact breastfeeding. We also have a quite a few

> docs who see the need for clipping but won't do it until the babies are

> 13 pounds and require general anesthesia. A lot of Americans see

> doctors as all-seeing, all-knowing, all-wise so it is very confusing and

> frustrating when the docs are telling them one thing and the LC's tell

> them another. And if the parents have to pick on their own, often they

> decide the doc knows more than the LC does (back to the all-knowing

> thing).

>

> So, I give a lot of anticipatory guidance. I keep a copy of the AAP

> article written by Coryllos in my bag to give to parents. I

> also bring Supporting Sucking Skills and show them the pictures in the

> book. Having an authoritative textbook and a physician-focused article

> on the subject lends credibility to my observations. If the baby is

> cooperative, I often show the parents or have them feel the attachment

> then compare mine and theirs in a mirror so they can see the difference.

> If it seems like it would be helpful, I also explain in detail how the

> motion of the tongue controls sucking and swallowing. I also warn the

> parents that their doctor may give them conflicting advice. If it is a

> doc that I know won't address tongue tie I tell the parents this and

> suggest the parents go directly to the ENT that I work with who I know

> will clip types 1-4 in the office and knows what she is doing. If it is

> a new doc, I immediately send a report to the doc with a detailed

> explanation of what I've observed, why it is a problem and what I'm

> suggesting to the parents. I typically attach a copy of the AAP article

> with the report.

>

> This has made a huge difference in the number of patients who are

> following through with clipping. Then, once they have it clipped, they

> go back to the doctor, tell them what a difference it made and we have

> the start of a conversion.

>

> I try to remind myself that many of the things I strongly believe in fly

> in the face of what our culture tells new moms they should be doing and

> when I go do a consult, it is probably the first time they've met me so

> I don't have well established credibility with them yet. Hang in there!

>

> Carroll, MA, IBCLC

>

[Guest guest]

As one of my moms said about TT "if a penis had to be sucked on everyone would have TT released!"Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 17:05:29 -0800 (PST)To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Re: Shopping cart experience Yes, I always tell the parents that their ped probably wouldn't notice the TT or view it as a problem b/c it isn't their speciality. Then I tell them that the doc who I'm referring them to is a specialist in breastfeeding and TT issues. Still, some parents choose not to clip. usually the dad is the "no" guy... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- On Mon, 12/27/10, wrote:Subject: Re: Shopping cart experienceTo: Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 4:46 PM Awesomely written response!!! Exactly what I do--I would say 95% of my clients follow my advice on TT, chiropractic and food allergies, bc I prepare them for the conflict ahead of time. I will even make sure they have the ped appt and chiro appt before they leave my office. Tow, IBCLC, Toulouse, FR>> > > > I just don't > understand why they would hire a professional and then> don't take my advice> > OR pick and choose what they like to do.> > Hi June -- In my area, there are a lot of physicians who think tongue> tie doesn't really impact breastfeeding. We also have a quite a few> docs who see the need for clipping but won't do it until the babies are> 13 pounds and require general anesthesia. A lot of Americans see> doctors as all-seeing, all-knowing, all-wise so it is very confusing and> frustrating when the docs are telling them one thing and the LC's tell> them another. And if the parents have to pick on their own, often they> decide the doc knows more than the LC does (back to the all-knowing> thing).> > So, I give a lot of anticipatory guidance. I keep a copy of the AAP> article written by Coryllos in my bag to give to parents. I> also bring Supporting Sucking Skills and show them the pictures in the> book. Having an authoritative textbook and a physician-focused article> on the subject lends credibility to my observations. If the baby is> cooperative, I often show the parents or have them feel the attachment> then compare mine and theirs in a mirror so they can see the difference.> If it seems like it would be helpful, I also explain in detail how the> motion of the tongue controls sucking and swallowing. I also warn the> parents that their doctor may give them conflicting advice. If it is a> doc that I know won't address tongue tie I tell the parents this and> suggest the parents go directly to the ENT that I work with who I know> will clip types 1-4 in the office and knows what she is doing. If it is> a new doc, I immediately send a report to the doc with a detailed> explanation of what I've observed, why it is a problem and what I'm> suggesting to the parents. I typically attach a copy of the AAP article> with the report.> > This has made a huge difference in the number of patients who are> following through with clipping. Then, once they have it clipped, they> go back to the doctor, tell them what a difference it made and we have> the start of a conversion.> > I try to remind myself that many of the things I strongly believe in fly> in the face of what our culture tells new moms they should be doing and> when I go do a consult, it is probably the first time they've met me so> I don't have well established credibility with them yet. Hang in there!> > Carroll, MA, IBCLC>

[Guest guest]

Ha ha! but, uhhhhh I definitely won't go there.I would say, if the dad was breastfeeding, the baby would definitely be clipped! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- From: LeighAnne625@...

Subject: Re: Re: Shopping cart experienceTo: Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 5:49 PM

As one of my moms said about TT "if a penis had to be sucked on everyone would have TT released!"Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sender:

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 17:05:29 -0800 (PST)To: < >ReplyTo:

Subject: Re: Re: Shopping cart experience

Yes, I always tell the parents that their ped probably wouldn't notice the TT or view it as a problem b/c it isn't their speciality. Then I tell them that the doc who I'm referring them to is a specialist in breastfeeding and TT issues. Still, some parents choose not to clip. usually the dad is the "no" guy... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- On Mon, 12/27/10,

wrote:Subject: Re: Shopping cart experienceTo: Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 4:46 PM

Awesomely written response!!! Exactly what I do--I would say 95% of my clients follow my advice on TT, chiropractic and food allergies, bc I prepare them for the conflict ahead of time. I will even make sure they have the ped appt and chiro appt before they leave my office.

Tow, IBCLC, Toulouse, FR

>

>

>

> > I just don't > understand why they would hire a professional and then

> don't take my advice

> > OR pick and choose what they like to do.

>

> Hi June -- In my area, there are a lot of physicians who think tongue

> tie doesn't really impact breastfeeding. We also have a quite a few

> docs who see the need for clipping but won't do it until the babies are

> 13 pounds and require general anesthesia. A lot of Americans see

> doctors as all-seeing, all-knowing, all-wise so it is very confusing and

> frustrating when the docs are telling them one thing and the LC's tell

> them another. And if the parents have to pick on their own, often they

> decide the doc knows more than the LC does (back to the all-knowing

> thing).

>

> So, I give a lot of anticipatory guidance. I keep a copy of the AAP

> article written by Coryllos in my bag to give to parents. I

> also bring Supporting Sucking Skills and show them the pictures in the

> book. Having an authoritative textbook and a physician-focused article

> on the subject lends credibility to my observations. If the baby is

> cooperative, I often show the parents or have them feel the attachment

> then compare mine and theirs in a mirror so they can see the difference.

> If it seems like it would be helpful, I also explain in detail how the

> motion of the tongue controls sucking and swallowing. I also warn the

> parents that their doctor may give them conflicting advice. If it is a

> doc that I know won't address tongue tie I tell the parents this and

> suggest the parents go directly to the ENT that I work with who I know

> will clip types 1-4 in the office and knows what she is doing. If it is

> a new doc, I immediately send a report to the doc with a detailed

> explanation of what I've observed, why it is a problem and what I'm

> suggesting to the parents. I typically attach a copy of the AAP article

> with the report.

>

> This has made a huge difference in the number of patients who are

> following through with clipping. Then, once they have it clipped, they

> go back to the doctor, tell them what a difference it made and we have

> the start of a conversion.

>

> I try to remind myself that many of the things I strongly believe in fly

> in the face of what our culture tells new moms they should be doing and

> when I go do a consult, it is probably the first time they've met me so

> I don't have well established credibility with them yet. Hang in there!

>

> Carroll, MA, IBCLC

>

[Guest guest]

Lol!We can ask them to consider how kissing will go much later in life...I worked with a family once, dad had his clipped with the baby...so he could "pleasure his wife..."Mom was tongue tied too and making out was always exhausting for both of them, but she didn't have her's clipped...although he keeps trying to convince her to do it... HealySeattle, WASent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 17:58:42 -0800 (PST)To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Re: Shopping cart experience Ha ha! but, uhhhhh I definitely won't go there.I would say, if the dad was breastfeeding, the baby would definitely be clipped! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: Re: Shopping cart experienceTo: Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 5:49 PM As one of my moms said about TT "if a penis had to be sucked on everyone would have TT released!"Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 17:05:29 -0800 (PST)To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Re: Shopping cart experience Yes, I always tell the parents that their ped probably wouldn't notice the TT or view it as a problem b/c it isn't their speciality. Then I tell them that the doc who I'm referring them to is a specialist in breastfeeding and TT issues. Still, some parents choose not to clip. usually the dad is the "no" guy... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- On Mon, 12/27/10, wrote:Subject: Re: Shopping cart experienceTo: Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 4:46 PM Awesomely written response!!! Exactly what I do--I would say 95% of my clients follow my advice on TT, chiropractic and food allergies, bc I prepare them for the conflict ahead of time. I will even make sure they have the ped appt and chiro appt before they leave my office. Tow, IBCLC, Toulouse, FR>> > > > I just don't > understand why they would hire a professional and then> don't take my advice> > OR pick and choose what they like to do.> > Hi June -- In my area, there are a lot of physicians who think tongue> tie doesn't really impact breastfeeding. We also have a quite a few> docs who see the need for clipping but won't do it until the babies are> 13 pounds and require general anesthesia. A lot of Americans see> doctors as all-seeing, all-knowing, all-wise so it is very confusing and> frustrating when the docs are telling them one thing and the LC's tell> them another. And if the parents have to pick on their own, often they> decide the doc knows more than the LC does (back to the all-knowing> thing).> > So, I give a lot of anticipatory guidance. I keep a copy of the AAP> article written by Coryllos in my bag to give to parents. I> also bring Supporting Sucking Skills and show them the pictures in the> book. Having an authoritative textbook and a physician-focused article> on the subject lends credibility to my observations. If the baby is> cooperative, I often show the parents or have them feel the attachment> then compare mine and theirs in a mirror so they can see the difference.> If it seems like it would be helpful, I also explain in detail how the> motion of the tongue controls sucking and swallowing. I also warn the> parents that their doctor may give them conflicting advice. If it is a> doc that I know won't address tongue tie I tell the parents this and> suggest the parents go directly to the ENT that I work with who I know> will clip types 1-4 in the office and knows what she is doing. If it is> a new doc, I immediately send a report to the doc with a detailed> explanation of what I've observed, why it is a problem and what I'm> suggesting to the parents. I typically attach a copy of the AAP article> with the report.> > This has made a huge difference in the number of patients who are> following through with clipping. Then, once they have it clipped, they> go back to the doctor, tell them what a difference it made and we have> the start of a conversion.> > I try to remind myself that many of the things I strongly believe in fly> in the face of what our culture tells new moms they should be doing and> when I go do a consult, it is probably the first time they've met me so> I don't have well established credibility with them yet. Hang in there!> > Carroll, MA, IBCLC>

[Guest guest]

that's a great story! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: Re: Re: Shopping cart experienceTo: Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 6:33

PM

Lol!We can ask them to consider how kissing will go much later in life...I worked with a family once, dad had his clipped with the baby...so he could "pleasure his wife..."Mom was tongue tied too and making out was always exhausting for both of them, but she didn't have her's clipped...although he keeps trying to convince her to do it... HealySeattle, WASent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sender:

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 17:58:42 -0800 (PST)To: < >ReplyTo:

Subject: Re: Re: Shopping cart experience

Ha ha! but, uhhhhh I definitely won't go there.I would say, if the dad was breastfeeding, the baby would definitely be clipped! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- From: LeighAnne625@...

Subject: Re: Re: Shopping cart experienceTo: Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 5:49 PM

As one of my moms said about TT "if a penis had to be sucked on everyone would have TT released!"Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sender:

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 17:05:29 -0800 (PST)To: < >ReplyTo:

Subject: Re: Re: Shopping cart experience

Yes, I always tell the parents that their ped probably wouldn't notice the TT or view it as a problem b/c it isn't their speciality. Then I tell them that the doc who I'm referring them to is a specialist in breastfeeding and TT issues. Still, some parents choose not to clip. usually the dad is the "no" guy... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- On Mon, 12/27/10,

wrote:Subject: Re: Shopping cart experienceTo: Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 4:46 PM

Awesomely written response!!! Exactly what I do--I would say 95% of my clients follow my advice on TT, chiropractic and food allergies, bc I prepare them for the conflict ahead of time. I will even make sure they have the ped appt and chiro appt before they leave my office.

Tow, IBCLC, Toulouse, FR

>

>

>

> > I just don't > understand why they would hire a professional and then

> don't take my advice

> > OR pick and choose what they like to do.

>

> Hi June -- In my area, there are a lot of physicians who think tongue

> tie doesn't really impact breastfeeding. We also have a quite a few

> docs who see the need for clipping but won't do it until the babies are

> 13 pounds and require general anesthesia. A lot of Americans see

> doctors as all-seeing, all-knowing, all-wise so it is very confusing and

> frustrating when the docs are telling them one thing and the LC's tell

> them another. And if the parents have to pick on their own, often they

> decide the doc knows more than the LC does (back to the all-knowing

> thing).

>

> So, I give a lot of anticipatory guidance. I keep a copy of the AAP

> article written by Coryllos in my bag to give to parents. I

> also bring Supporting Sucking Skills and show them the pictures in the

> book. Having an authoritative textbook and a physician-focused article

> on the subject lends credibility to my observations. If the baby is

> cooperative, I often show the parents or have them feel the attachment

> then compare mine and theirs in a mirror so they can see the difference.

> If it seems like it would be helpful, I also explain in detail how the

> motion of the tongue controls sucking and swallowing. I also warn the

> parents that their doctor may give them conflicting advice. If it is a

> doc that I know won't address tongue tie I tell the parents this and

> suggest the parents go directly to the ENT that I work with who I know

> will clip types 1-4 in the office and knows what she is doing. If it is

> a new doc, I immediately send a report to the doc with a detailed

> explanation of what I've observed, why it is a problem and what I'm

> suggesting to the parents. I typically attach a copy of the AAP article

> with the report.

>

> This has made a huge difference in the number of patients who are

> following through with clipping. Then, once they have it clipped, they

> go back to the doctor, tell them what a difference it made and we have

> the start of a conversion.

>

> I try to remind myself that many of the things I strongly believe in fly

> in the face of what our culture tells new moms they should be doing and

> when I go do a consult, it is probably the first time they've met me so

> I don't have well established credibility with them yet. Hang in there!

>

> Carroll, MA, IBCLC

>

[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry you are feeling discouraged. I have a lot of thoughts about

this.....you bring up a lot of really excellent points that I suspect most

honest professionals would confess to sharing at some point in their career.

" Why would they hire a professional and then don't take my advice? " ...

Might be the same reason I declined my specialist OB's offer to schedule me a

3rd cesarean and went ahead and had myself a vaginal birth after 2 previous

surgical deliveries....or again, most recently refused the surgery my specialist

Orthopedist recommended to repair my achilles rupture and took the walking boot

with a 4 " heal lift for 12 weeks!

Now those choices might sound sensible to many of you because they are in

alignment with many of our personal perspectives. What I had to acknowledge is

this all can play out to the converse as well. Meaning that for whatever reason,

your clients, with their own personal life experiences, belief systems,

education, and access or lack of access to resources made a personal decision.

That doesn't diminish the accuracy of your assessment, nor does it eliminate the

role the TT is playing in the breastfeeding.

Something that has worked well for me when I am supporting families who are

exploring their options is to come right out and ask them, " ...how do you feel

about this, or what are you considering or exploring? " If they leave your

consult with the intention of releasing the frenulum, and return without having

it performed, I would consult with them regarding their intentions and

re-examine the plan, explore the options (which in some cases may require

pumping/use of donated milk/use of AIM etc. if they TT is not released), share

your assessment, and see which way they want to go. If they perceive obstacles

to a choice that appeals to them, you can potentially offer suggestions to

address the obstacles.

I think when we get connected to the outcome to the extent that it is a source

of frustration when people do not comply with our recommendations it can be a

recipe for a simmering pot of burn out. Just speaking from my own perspective

here. It might be time for some good self care, and something I have found

helpful is to attend an event or align myself with people who share my values

and commitment to the cause (like your fellow LLLL's or here!), so I don't feel

so alone and like I am constantly at battle.

If it's any reassurance to knowing you are not alone, I cannot count how many

times I have left a patient's room with her baby put skin to skin and encouraged

some private time to see 2 dozen family members enter her room and pass the baby

swaddled up in 4 blankets around to 20 people.

Here's a clip I have found inspirational (I may have shared this here

before...sorry if it's repetitious). You DO make a difference and you DO matter!

Regardless if you see a patient once or five times, if they follow your

recommendations or not, you are positively touching lives.

H. Kinne BA IBCLC RLC ICCE CD(DONA)

www.CascadePerinatalServices.com

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I've helped 4 moms since I opened my business in June of this year. Three of

> them had TT issues. All three would not listen to me and get the tongue

> properly clipped (two did, but didn't go where I said to and then would not

> get them re-clipped). I don't get it. Why do parents think of parenting as a

> shopping cart experience? I know that have their own wills. I just don't

> understand why they would hire a professional and then don't take my advice

> OR pick and choose what they like to do. Another example is artificial

> nipples. Why would you choose things when it's absolutely against basic

> lactation education?

>

> Here's another - STS. I tell them all the wonderful things about it and then

> they promptly bundle them up in 3-4 layers. Many times, I have to show them

> and remove the clothes, and place them STS before they even consider it.

> Then as soon as I leave, they don't do it much anymore if at all (I ask).

>

[Guest guest]

I remember many years ago... 2 yrs or so after I had my first baby and I had just become a LLL Leader. I was giving advice to my cousin who was having trouble breastfeeding her first baby and I was getting frustrated with her because she would not do any of the things that I was recommending to her that I knew would make her situation much better. I ended up asking her in exasperation why she wouldn't do what I recommended. And she broke down so upset and said... how can I listen to you just one person when everyone around me is saying the opposite? I wasn't in much of a mood to sympathize and retorted that I was the only one with a successful breastfeeding experience. But later I thought a lot about what she said and realized how difficult it really was for her to go against everything she'd ever known and everyone who was telling her what was best, including her mother, sisters and doctors. She heard me... though she took baby steps... and it was the next child that reaped the benefits. It just takes time to change your mind about everything. So sometimes we are planting the seeds and sometimes we are reaping the harvest but all times we are doing important work.

Stay strong, June and all you other fabulous Lactation Consultants, they hear you even when they're not listening.

Tammie

Tammie F. Cruell, MD, IBCLC, RLC, LLLLComprehensive Lactation Associates "Everyday in everyway, I get better and better." Emile Coue

To: From: scottandjune@...Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 15:07:46 -0500Subject: Shopping cart experience

Hi everyone,

I’ve helped 4 moms since I opened my business in June of this year. Three of them had TT issues. All three would not listen to me and get the tongue properly clipped (two did, but didn’t go where I said to and then would not get them re-clipped). I don’t get it. Why do parents think of parenting as a shopping cart experience? I know that have their own wills. I just don’t understand why they would hire a professional and then don’t take my advice OR pick and choose what they like to do. Another example is artificial nipples. Why would you choose things when it’s absolutely against basic lactation education?

Here’s another – STS. I tell them all the wonderful things about it and then they promptly bundle them up in 3-4 layers. Many times, I have to show them and remove the clothes, and place them STS before they even consider it. Then as soon as I leave, they don’t do it much anymore if at all (I ask).

I’m wondering if there is a clear, more direct approach that I’m missing. I like to respect mothering instincts and have always believed a mother knows what’s best for her child. I just don’t think many of them are keyed into that instinct and don’t know at what point to get more direct or back off.

I’ve been working in a hospital setting the last 3 years in PP and as an IBCLC the last year. I’ve been a LLL Leader for 10 years. I’ve gotten more response there than in my business so far. Also, I feel more appreciated in those areas as well. If I had what I’m offering to people I would have been so grateful, but it seems like people don’t even understand what I have to offer or what the alternative is. Maybe it’s just me or it’s the culture hear up north. I’m so discouraged right now.

June , RN, IBCLC

PP doula too

[Guest guest]

Awesome story! Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comBreastfeeding Between the Lines: http://second9months.wordpress.com/--- Subject: RE: Shopping cart experienceTo: ibclc-pp Date: Tuesday, December 28, 2010, 1:58 PM

I remember many years ago... 2 yrs or so after I had my first baby and I had just become a LLL Leader. I was giving advice to my cousin who was having trouble breastfeeding her first baby and I was getting frustrated with her because she would not do any of the things that I was recommending to her that I knew would make her situation much better. I ended up asking her in exasperation why she wouldn't do what I recommended. And she broke down so upset and said... how can I listen to you just one person when everyone around me is saying the opposite? I wasn't in much of a mood to sympathize and retorted that I was the only one with a successful breastfeeding experience. But later I thought a lot about what she said and realized how difficult it really was for her to go against everything she'd ever known and everyone who was telling her what

was best, including her mother, sisters and doctors. She heard me... though she took baby steps... and it was the next child that reaped the benefits. It just takes time to change your mind about everything. So sometimes we are planting the seeds and sometimes we are reaping the harvest but all times we are doing important work.

Stay strong, June and all you other fabulous Lactation Consultants, they hear you even when they're not listening.

Tammie

Tammie F. Cruell, MD, IBCLC, RLC, LLLLComprehensive Lactation Associates "Everyday in everyway, I get better and better." Emile Coue

To: From: scottandjune@...Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 15:07:46 -0500Subject: Shopping cart experience

Hi everyone,

I’ve helped 4 moms since I opened my business in June of this year. Three of them had TT issues. All three would not listen to me and get the tongue properly clipped (two did, but didn’t go where I said to and then would not get them re-clipped). I don’t get it. Why do parents think of parenting as a shopping cart experience? I know that have their own wills. I just don’t understand why they would hire a professional and then don’t take my advice OR pick and choose what they like to do. Another example is artificial nipples. Why would you choose things when it’s absolutely against basic lactation education?

Here’s another – STS. I tell them all the wonderful things about it and then they promptly bundle them up in 3-4 layers. Many times, I have to show them and remove the clothes, and place them STS before they even consider it. Then as soon as I leave, they don’t do it much anymore if at all (I ask).

I’m wondering if there is a clear, more direct approach that I’m missing. I like to respect mothering instincts and have always believed a mother knows what’s best for her child. I just don’t think many of them are keyed into that instinct and don’t know at what point to get more direct or back off.

I’ve been working in a hospital setting the last 3 years in PP and as an IBCLC the last year. I’ve been a LLL Leader for 10 years. I’ve gotten more response there than in my business so far. Also, I feel more appreciated in those areas as well. If I had what I’m offering to people I would have been so grateful, but it seems like people don’t even understand what I have to offer or what the alternative is. Maybe it’s just me or it’s the culture hear up north. I’m so discouraged right now.

June , RN, IBCLC

PP doula too

[Guest guest]

Dear all:

I actually consider it the Trials of Improved Practices, not the shopping cart

experience. And, quite frankly, given how the ideas about " the perfect latch "

have gone around in a circle since the time I became and IBCLC -- I think we

need to respect mothers a bit more as we have them try what we think are better

approaches. Remember at one point in history, formula feeding was considered

modern and better than breastfeeding. Thank goodness there were some women out

there who did employee the shopping cart approach and ignored the white coats.

The way that Trials of Improved Practices works is merely that you talk over the

available options with the mother and make modifications according to her own

circumstances. You start with the doable and gradually build up from there.

This approach worked in International Nutrition far better than a more

prescribed approach of telling mothers what to do. Basically, you engage the

mother in problem solving with you. This does not mean that you don't provide

full evidence of the potential outcomes of various different approaches. I does

mean, however, that you treat the mother as an adult who is competent in making

decisions and assisting you by providing information on her side that helps you

and she develop a workable plan.

Best regards,

E Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

NYLCA President

sburgernutr@...

[Guest guest]

Speaking with a doula friend of mine who put it this way. She said one thing her

doula work has taught her is that she is " ...no longer under the assumption that

I know what is best for you just because I do know what is best for me (K.K.) " .

It's a complex part of the work we facilitate. I support people all the time who

have strongly differing values and beliefs from myself. I would get a blood

transfusion in a minute if my life depended on it. There are some who would

consider that blood transfusion such a compromise of their belief system that

they would prefer to die without it. That is hardly how I feel, but I certainly

respect it.

Sometimes it is a challenge to our ability to remain empathetic. We might see

whatever it is this mother is contemplating in terms of addressing her

circumstances as 'obvious'. Clearly to her it is not. From her perspective there

are tons of obstacles.

When I have a persistent, ongoing relationship with a client who is

contemplating change, yet kind of on the fence about it, considering how to

incorporate tasks or behavioral changes into her circumstance, we can try some

motivational interviewing techniques.

When I round on the inpatient unit, I don't get quite the opportunity to develop

these kinds of relationships, generally.

>

> Dear all:

>

> I actually consider it the Trials of Improved Practices, not the shopping cart

experience. And, quite frankly, given how the ideas about " the perfect latch "

have gone around in a circle since the time I became and IBCLC -- I think we

need to respect mothers a bit more as we have them try what we think are better

approaches. Remember at one point in history, formula feeding was considered

modern and better than breastfeeding. Thank goodness there were some women out

there who did employee the shopping cart approach and ignored the white coats.

>