Re: How To Respond?

June 3, 2002

<< I am curious as to how you respond to others who do not see your nada for

the sick person that she is and when they ask you something about her and you

say, I don't know what is going on with her. Then the next question is: Are

you not speaking again? No...we are not! >>

Yo Other KO's,

I could have written that whole paragraph myself. In fact, I had to check if

it was me typing in my sleep.

In answer to your question, most all people ask how my nada is. If it's

just how she is I say, 'fine'. If they pursue it I add 'she's in Phoenix now

with her new hubby'. If they choose to not drop it and ask how we are I then

say 'my mother is very emotionally, psychologically and verbally abusive to

me and I don't stay around anyone who does this reguardless of who it is'.

Most people don't pursue it past that point but the few some who do say that

I ought to forgive, etc., and I just say, 'forgive, maybe, but not if she's

going to blast me again.' They seem to agree with that one. It seems that

she has abused others in the community. It's like everyone has their own

story. Even my dentist went off about her when he was cleaning my teeth. I

told nada that she treats people like dog doo. Even nada herself agreed with

that one.

I have told my nada straight out on the phone that I'm not enabeling her

anymore and am telling people that she is abusive. She just gulped and

said, " well, I'd better get my stuff together, then hadn't I?'

BTW, I filled out a form at my doctor's office when I got my heinie to the

gynie over a year ago. It was an update on records for them and at the

bottom of the form was the question, " are you being abused " ? I had answered

'no' to that question for years since I thought it was a question for spousal

abuse. This time I checked 'yes' and the nurses and my gynie rushed in to

support me. (My husband is so mellow he makes jello look bad). They were

confused because they thought it was my husband. Nope, I told them it was my

nada. My gynie just hugged me and asked a few questions like 'is she

demanding and all'? I said yes and added my $20.00 worth. I did tell her

that I was in a super support group on the Internet and she said wonderful!

My therapissant also says the same thing. In fact he always asks me at the

end of sessions, 'you still in that super support group aren't you?' My

reply, 'You betcha, we really understand each other'. I said 'abuse is

abuse' and my gynie said that I did the right thing. She asked if the

Women's Center could be of any help. I told her a 50 gallon drum of Estrogen

would be nice. ;-)

My nada is coming into town as we speak and I'm a shakin' as I type this.

She does at least write me beforehand and has learned to respect my

boundaries on that. She does know that she is a 'pissant' (her words) and

she did say that she wanted to see me. I'm still debating. I got that

letter a few weeks ago and just cringed. But, thanks to you KO's and the

main WTO lists I know that I have you and that you will be there for me.

When she called last January I set some pretty strong fast boundaries. She

said something about reconcilliation in one of her many letters that I didn't

respond to. My husband writes since I have been in Oz and ModO and sends her

the pics and the news and clippings. When I pick up the phone I answer,

'Validate my feelings or get off the phone' <you bat breath you> or 'You have

reached the number of Rita, who is not available for the D.R. (her initials)

rescuing team anymore'. I also told her that there wasn't any

reconcilliation on my part because I have wanted to communicate since I was a

little kid so if any mending was to be done it was to be her. She did agree

it was her 95%. I gave her 85% but hey, we don't argue with a BP do we?

<wink, wink>. I mean when a nada fesses up to the higher percentage we let

them. Caller ID is wonderful.

Heading for my boundary bag. It's gonna be a white-knuckle week. I haven't

see nada since Nov of '98 just after I jumped into Oz for a few weeks and got

some really neat stuff on the main WTO list. (I didn't sit immediately next

to her at a concert and it blew her mind because she couldn't talk to me). I

walked out of her life for good in November of '96 when she had her ape fit

and she went totally psychotic. She's even admitted she's psychotic and she d

oesn't remember.

Thanks for listening and for being here KO's. Sometimes I forget to thank

youse alls for being here for me. The love and understanding in this group

is incredible.

I wuvs you. A hug for those who want it and and huge hug for Edith, Randi,

, Deborah and ,

(((((((Other KO's)))))))

(((((Edith, Randi, , Deborah and )))))))))

((((((((Rita)))))))) I takes care of myself.

Cache ya later, If you see a mushroom cloud go up over Kansas City, Mo area

then you will at least know why.

But, I'm progressing with the nada. Heck, it's only been 51 years. Sheesh.

I will keep you posted.

Rita

" And she'll have fun, fun, fun 'till her daddy takes the keyboard away. "

June 3, 2002

how about something like: " this is a deeply painful and personal problem

which I do not want to discuss " ...or " this is a very private matter between

me and my mom and one that I don't wish to discuss " or " butt out, nosy, and

mind your own business " (juuuuuust kidding)

How To Respond?

>

> Hi All,

>

> I am curious as to how you respond to others who do not see your nada for

the sick person that she is and when they ask you something about her and

you say, I don't know what is going on with her. Then the next question is:

Are you not speaking again? No...we are not! Why? Because she has kicked

me out of her life again! Then (here is where the guilt kicked in) they

say...oh that is sad because if something happens to one of you the other

one is going to be really sorry!! My nada divorced me AGAIN officially May

14th, but I had felt something in the air for a few months prior. She

divorced me by telling my 18 year old that : " I am though with your mother I

am done with her and Dean (husband). I want nothing more to do with either

one of them. Your mother has mental problems and I am done with her. " No

words have been spoken since. But another thing........not only How do you

respond to others when they are just appalled that you are not speaking to :

YOUR MOTHER - you horrible child you...you un

>

> ---------------------------------

>

June 3, 2002

Hi Jutza,

I had a really hard time with this for awhile. I

would feel like I owed people an explanation, or that

I wanted them to get my side.

After one too many conversations that included " but

she is your mother " , " you will regret these years when

she is gone " , ..... I have stopped discussing my

situation except with a select few.

I now avoid the topic, if people ask where my family

is I answer the geographic question with no other

details. If asked if I am from a close knit family, I

simply say " yes, my mother has two sisters and the

families get together often. " I don't volunteer that

I don't go, and that I am not invited. And if asked

point blank about my relationship with mother by

someone who its none of there business I say, its

comfortable, its a good as its ever been <g>, or we

have found a dynamic that works for us.

For people who know that I am estranged and don't

approve, I have told them that I choose not to discuss

the topic any longer. I don't owe anyone an

explanation, and they don't have to get it.

--- Jutza wrote:

>

> Hi All,

>

> I am curious as to how you respond to others who do

> not see your nada for the sick person that she is

> and when they ask you something about her and you

> say, I don't know what is going on with her. Then

> the next question is: Are you not speaking again?

> No...we are not! Why? Because she has kicked me

> out of her life again! Then (here is where the

> guilt kicked in) they say...oh that is sad because

> if something happens to one of you the other one is

> going to be really sorry!! My nada divorced me

> AGAIN officially May 14th, but I had felt something

> in the air for a few months prior. She divorced me

> by telling my 18 year old that : " I am though with

> your mother I am done with her and Dean (husband).

> I want nothing more to do with either one of them.

> Your mother has mental problems and I am done with

> her. " No words have been spoken since. But another

> thing........not only How do you respond to others

> when they are just appalled that you are not

> speaking to : YOUR MOTHER - you horrible child

> you...you ungrateful animal. BUT why in the world

> is my mother getting so much of my brain time since

> the divorce??? Before that I hardly gave her a

> second thought...NOW she is driving me nuts in my

> head!!! For some reason I cannot remember the last

> divorce and how I dealt with things...crazy huh? It

> was only in 1996!! If anyone has any suggestions I

> would appreciate them!!! Thanks, Jutza

>

> ---------------------------------

>

June 3, 2002

In a message dated 6/3/02 11:38:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

Chu7190565@... writes:

> 'Validate my feelings or get off the phone' <you bat breath you> or 'You

> have

> reached the number of Rita, who is not available for the D.R. (her

> initials)

> rescuing team anymore'.

I think I will try this with my dad...the supremo boundary violater and chief

FOG machine operator. BTW Rita, it sounds as if your nada is moderately

aware of her BPD....how did this happen? Send me some of those magic beanie

thingies!

Hugs,

Debbie

June 3, 2002

Jules,

Actually, I am pretty fortunate because most of the people in my life who

know Megatron realize that there is something wrong with her. She is not a

very nice person <huge understatement> The only people who throw that " but

she is your mother " line my way are her sisters. They each have varying

degrees of BP sypmtoms, so I stay away from them as a rule, anyway. One of

them did manage to get through to me on the phone a few weeks ago to question

me about what was going on with my parents...I told her I had no idea...she

insisted I must...I told her even if I did it wasn't her business...she

countered with " Why would your mother tell me your father is starving himself

to death? " ... " Probably because she is ill Auntie Pignose (names changed to

protect the ridiculous) " ... " Surely you know something about it...I mean we

all know you are trying to destroy their marriage...you have been rotten

since you were a child, look at all the pain you have caused me and my

family. " ....click, silence I hung up on her! Haven't heard a snort...I mean

a word....since.

I say if people insist on prying into why you avoid nada...offer to lend them

your copies of Toxic Parents, SWOE, UBM, I Hate You Don't Leave Me, and the

DSM 4r. Tell them you have highlighted the pertinent facts. Offer to show

them a slide show which details the destructive treatment nada inflicted on

you. Then tell them if they don't leave you alone, Carol's nada-cathcers may

pick them up for being accesories after the fact.

Hugs,

Debbie

June 3, 2002

--- wrote:

> how about something like: " this is a deeply painful

> and personal problem

> which I do not want to discuss " ...or " this is a very

> private matter between

> me and my mom and one that I don't wish to discuss "

> or " butt out, nosy, and

> mind your own business " (juuuuuust kidding)

If I am in a period of not talking to my parents or

not visiting very often and people ask, I just tell

them that we don't get along very well and they seem

to not ask any questions further than that.

Holly

__________________________________________________

June 3, 2002

when people have pressed beyond the boundary for details, I have

reacted differently. Sometimes I tell the truth, sometimes I give a

neutral change the subject response. It depends. I don't know a whole

lot of people here who know nada, so I don't get the question. Even

in the past, none of my friends ever got to know nada, because nada

went hermitty --- ever since I was a little kid, she never had

confidants, friends. She didn't even share how she felt with her own

family. Kind of like a sphinx. So distrust was the family model.

Exposing ones inner soul to non-family was also discouraged.

In an old email loop of ladies I've been emailing for years, the

reactions were mixed. One had a BP queen witch waif nada and she

understood. One LIVES with her waif mom and so keeps telling me to

forgive, one got triggered by her own difficult childhood and left

the loop. I didn't have NBP Oasis in those days and I spent some time

venting on my email loop not realizing that I was setting myself up

for major invalidation that way.

At the beginning I didn'tunderstand invalidation and would spend a

lot of energy trying to convince people.

I think the best thing for me was reading about dreadful childhoods

like 's Ashes, Liar's Club, things like that. It helped me

realize that I had a super-de-dooper horrible childhood and no normal

people could understand.

A big step for me was calling my aunts in Georgia who were the people

who saw nada after she left here. I didn't mention nada at all, they

didn't either. For some reason it became a turning point of not

having to explain anything to anyone.

It made me feel like the transformation from being something porous

like a sieve, to being very solid and blunt.

It really is not anyone's business but yours.

Kathleen

June 3, 2002

<< BTW Rita, it sounds as if your nada is moderately

aware of her BPD....how did this happen? Send me some of those magic beanie

thingies! >>

Yo Other KO's,

Yes, my nada is very aware of herself being mentally ill. She placed herself

in counseling in 1957 with a psychologist knowing something was wrong with

her and has been in counseling with over 15 or 20 therapissants. She leaves

them fast in the spin cycle.

Her first encounters with her own mental illness were with visitors who were

on a priesthood call with my dishrag dad who was a pastor. Two of them, on

separate occasions and different calls, slipped him a card of 'a good

psychiatrist for your wife' after she raged over something or other when they

were there.

Her second self-enlightment came when she herself read about BPD and asked me

if I thought she had BPD. <gulp>. Since it's really, really bad and a huge

no-no to dx a suspected or even self-admitted BP if they are sitting four

feet away from you, I just went down the list in the DSM-III-R (DSM-V wasn't

out yet or SWOE; this was about '94 '95?) and stated 'well, you seem to fit

all the criteria in the DSM for BPD'. (Heck, she did ask!) and listed them

1. Abandonment issues 2. Splitting 3. Overspending 4.Extreme raging. 5., 6.

et. al., except for the suicide threats and she projected that one onto me

and said that I had made some. (Heck, no, I'd miss myself too much!) <wink,

wink>. She seemed to be working on the theory that BPD was strictly the

layman's defination of 'somewhere between psychosis and neurosis'. She is

dx'ed OCD by two psychiatrists that I know of. But she seems to see that BPD

is the lesser of two evils than 'straight- up' psychosis. In her own words

'half nuts is better than full nuts'. She just doesn't get the inner

workings that we do in Oz and ModO. She also stated she doesn't want to give

up the OCD.

Thirdly, I told her I was on the list of **the absolute utmost foremost

authority in the whole wide world about BPD*, Randi, also with others Edith

and who have advanced degrees, and not to leave out Deborah and and

others on the main list. I also have an M.A. in Social Psychology but I just

learned how to park the car in grad school. ;-P Seriously, grad school is

learning about research, but not a sentence on BPD.

Now on the lists is where I have learned! I also have learned that I don't

tell her straight out that she is a suspected BP. Since *she* asked in

January, I said very cautiously that maybe she should delicately consider

asking her therapissant if he had her dx wrong and that she might want to

consider BP. <gulp> She just listened and said, " if anyone would know, if

would be you " . She is still OCD since BPD overlaps on the cluster B of the

Axis II.

Again, a cautionary note is advised. My nada is very high functioning and

she has read about BPD herself or I wouldn't bring it up to her. She even

said herself, 'well, if I walk like a duck, act like a duck then I'm a duck'.

And 'I am psychotic and your nutty momma'. " I'm the crazy one in this

family; you are #2--you have to try harder, " things like that. She know I'm

on a list here and WTO. I told her for years it was for PTSD and it is, but

I just told her in January that it is for children with a parent with BP.

She said that she's glad I've found youse alls and that if anyone needed it

was me because she was 'a bwerry bwerry bwad durl, a pill and a pissant, and

a messed up sick woman'.

Ah, when the light breaks, and hoping again, of course, it's not a Hoover,

then the clouds part and the goose poops on her and not me, then maybe we

have a genuine breakthrough. I have had only four hours of a decent

conversation with her in 51 years and those four hours were after I read

SWOE, L & L, SWOEW and every book I can get my hands on about BPD and joined

the main WTO list about ten minutes after I finished SWOE in '98. I even

state when I set a boundary with her, 'I'm setting a boundary with you now,

mom, and you aren't to cross it'. So far she hasn't.

The thing Other KO's, is that I'm the most important thing in her life and

she doesn't have me. (My sister died in '57, my dad in '82 and my aunt stays

away from her and also my husband except for pre-arranged contact with his

permission to run interference). By removing myself from her just because I

couldn't stand it any longer (and told her so and she agreed), it has seemed

to work wonders. The thing she can't stand has happened. She has been

abandoned and she has caused it herself and she knows it.

When I asked her if *she* remembered that she brought it up that she

suspected BPD she said she always kinda thought so. It's just that I have

learned not to tell her when she's ape. Aaacccccck.

But when I confronted her with the projection, denial, rages and all she

turned them on to me. I think I just gave her time to think it over and when

she called in January to 'start the year out right' and I answered 'Boundary

Busters: May I hep Ya?' she fessed up to it all and the smear campaigns,

the projecting, the rages, denial ,the whole nine yards. I about fell off

the couch I was so shocked.

But, we are progressing. I told her that since she is quite intelligent that

she plays dumb. She says she doesn't really know what I mean by 'validating

my feelings'. (i.e., 'I'm psychotic--I can't help it'). I then stated that

I tested her in grad school and challenged her. She then, suddenly 'got it'

and even wrote it down and repeated it back to me. You see, she has to live

up to those Standford-Binet and WAIS-R high scores. ;-) I also told her to

quit being the helpless little waif/queen....(fill in the blank, whatever

she's being at the time).

But, we are moving and shaking in ModOs and WTO and we are shaking at the

keyboard because she is in town now but not staying here. No way.

Ewwwwwwwwie.

Hope this helps and answers your questions,

Hopefully I have tied up my phone line so the old bat gets a busy signal.

<throwing head back cackeling with cross-eyed, tongue-hanging-out, fool

looking glee-face>

Cache ya later,

And there is nothing wrong with me, with me, withme,

withme,withmewithmewithmewith

Rita

" And she'll have fun, fun, fun 'till her daddy takes the keyboard away. "

June 3, 2002

<< Rita, my mother is high functioning and has alienated everyone she cares

about, but she does NOT get it. You're mother does! How does she deal

with it? What's her rationale? She must be unhappy, so how can she

perpetrate that which causes her so much pain?

>>

Yo Other KO's,

Same here, she has alienated everyone she cares about so far. I don't know

about her new hubby. I suspect she has him snookered in. I even told her

that she's probably done the " Please don't abandon me, everyone abandons me

but you " dance and had him accept that hands down before he married her. She

agreed. Then I told her that she traps people in that dance and then they

can't get out because she starts the " you promised not to abandon me " stuff.

Yes, she does get it. She know something is terrribly wrong and has for

years. She is 79. She even says " everyone runs from me in droves " . I told

her to wake up and smell the decaf coffee. She has run everyone off and now

me.

As far as answering your question, in how she deals with it: She is one very

lonely person who has no one. She has this new hubby who I suggested she

clue in that she had emotional problems and not project it all onto me, and

she said that she has told him. But, I told her that I bet B. hasn't seen

her go off yet. And she said I was right.

I don't know what her rationale is. She says she doesn't remember; then she

says she does. She even said when she moved into the apartment where she met

B. that it wouldn't be long untill she had one of her 'Lucy's' and told

someone off. (She calls her own rage fits 'Lucy Van Pelt's' after the comic

character). She even stated that B. wouldn't stay with her if he know about

her ape fits. I told her she'd better straighten herself out and level off

before she lost him too. She even dated a very high-ranking official in our

denomination before she met B who doesn't have as high a rank. She quit

dating the first one because he was too classy and high-ranked because she

was afraid she'd tell him to go to hell when she 'got a Lucy'. (Both are

ordained ministers).

She's done this stuff before like when we both took a quilting class back in

'78. She even told me she wondered how long it would be till she 'had a

Lucy'.

She is very unhappy and I don't know she does live with herself and that

pain. I just understand BPD much more now than when I was younger. Heck, I

just found out myself in '98.

I do want to share with you another goodie while on-line and tying up the

phone. :-) I was over at her apartment once and she started to go off. It

was after SWOE but minimal contact so I really don't know when. <scratching

head>. Well, anyhoo, she took a deep breath and started in on a rage. I

took a deep breath and stated some boundaries, " Ok, now you're going into a

tailspin right now. <you bat fart>. Why don't you try to calm down, act like

an adult, state how you feel and I'll pay attention and listen try to

understand and validate you and communicate with me like an adult without

doing that other stuff *only* if I get some validation back or I'm walking

out again. But, I'll go first. " PUVAS full sprectum at full throttle but

ASPUV. I told her to make " I " statements instead of " you " , i.e., not " you

hurt my feelings " but " when such and such was done then I felt.... " KO's

she did it. She just did it. She just sat there and said, " now, that's a

good idea, haven't tried that one before " . I again about fell off her chair.

So it all comes back to the chicken and the egg thing. Does she know she is

doing it? Is she really psychotic or embarrassed? I just don't know. I just

know I hurt and haven't had my feelings validated yet or a 'good listening

to'. I told her she needed to learn how to listen. She said, " check, got

that " . Actually, she is doing better. It couldn't get any worse is why I

pull out the stops on boundaries. And, I also noticed, that I had to add on

my own when she really does listen, to compliment her for getting it but

without me being in a parenting role. She loves that! Pavlov's nada! It's

the 'V' in PUVAS. Because when she got a compliment on how she has grown

and changed then it seems that she wanted to behave better because she gets

more compliments. I must not forget that. I told her she was to be

commended. She stated that she liked this and could we do some more.

Sheesh. (Tying a string around my mousie).

She stated all she wanted to be above all else is a good mother. I told her

that one really needed working on because one of the worst things a person

can do to a child is not validate their feelings. That's the worst form of

child abuse there is. I asked her once when she was calm why she didn't let

me say how I feel and she replied that she was afraid if she 'let' me say how

I feel I'd go away. I told her that if she didn't let me say how I feel I'd

go away and now it has happened. :-p <nee, ner, nee, ner>.

Thffffffffppppppttttttttt.

Worn out but still moving and shaking in Oz,

Wuds youse alls, and I wuds me too. So many nada's; so little time.

Rita

" And she'll have fun, fun, fun 'till her daddy takes the keyboard away. "

June 3, 2002

In a message dated 6/3/02 5:47:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

camckay@... writes:

> Rita, my mother is high functioning and has alienated everyone she cares

> about, but she does NOT get it. You're mother does! How does she deal

> with it? What's her rationale? She must be unhappy, so how can she

> perpetrate that which causes her so much pain?

>

Hey Rita, me too! How did she come to organize her awareness and her

behavior in the same life? Does she understand what the underlying issues

are that may be behind her BPD?

Waiting for some more wisdom! This is a nada unlike any other...

Debbie

June 3, 2002

<<

Hey Rita, me too! How did she come to organize her awareness and her

behavior in the same life? Does she understand what the underlying issues

are that may be behind her BPD?

Waiting for some more wisdom! This is a nada unlike any other...

>>

Yo Other KO's,

Well, yes she does understand the underlying issues behind her BPD because

she was abused as a child and I saw it myself. Now, I didn't, at five or so

years old stop and say, " uh, oh, the makings of a BP here' and stop my

grandnada and great-aunt and the whole family. I was too busy ducking. I

think that is the part of PUVAS that I have to keep validating on nada that

she really was abused and tell her that since she didn't get the proper

nurturing and mothering as a child she turned to me and flip-flopped roles

when I was about one or two. She agreed to that. She even stated that she

reversed roles but couldn't help it. My therapissant also said that. She has

even called me 'mother' in the past. But she has also called me worse. (She

did say sometimes that 'mother' is just half a word she had for me. I told

her that if she is indeed the real biological mother of me then she was

calling herself the 'muthaf*****'. Projection? Hehehehehehehe. She didn't

like that so she quit. All due respect that would be pretty tricky to do

too. :-)

She is very high functioning. But, she still is a nada and I've been through

hell and back. Actually, she is the one who told me that she had put me

through 7 levels of pure unadulterated hell. Again, I agreed. Heck, we

know not to argue with a BP, don't we? Except, I thought there were only 4

levels. So there. :-p

Cache ya later,

Rita

" And she'll have fun, fun, fun 'till her daddy takes the keyboard away. "

June 3, 2002

Jutza, I'm so sorry that your nada is spreading such distortion

campaigns (DC)! Unfortunately DCs are what nadas do best, having

excelled in DC 101 at Nada-State University. I know exactly how you

feel when " well meaning " people offer such inappropriate advice. It

used to drive me crazy. I didn't know how to get away from it, but

looking back, I had to accept the fact that mother and I would never

ever have a " normal " relationship. Then....... a looooong grieving

process began that took 2+ years. Not only the relationship itself must

be grieved, but the potential loss of FOO members, inheritances, family

memorabilia, and possibly more. It's daunting, but with road map and

BPD manual in hand, one can keep the faith and trudge through the

darkness knowing there's light at the end of the debris clogged

tunnel.

That's what we're all here for........ encouragement and support! You

go, girl!

Smiles!

Carol

Jutza wrote:

> > I am curious as to how you respond to others who do not see your nada for

> the sick person that she is and when they ask you something about her and

> you say, I don't know what is going on with her. Then the next question is:

> Are you not speaking again? No...we are not! Why? Because she has kicked

> me out of her life again! Then (here is where the guilt kicked in) they

> say...oh that is sad because if something happens to one of you the other

> one is going to be really sorry!! My nada divorced me AGAIN officially May

> 14th, but I had felt something in the air for a few months prior. She

> divorced me by telling my 18 year old that : " I am though with your mother I

> am done with her and Dean (husband). I want nothing more to do with either

> one of them. Your mother has mental problems and I am done with her. " No

> words have been spoken since. But another thing........not only How do you

> respond to others when they are just appalled that you are not speaking to :

> YOUR MOTHER - you horrible child you...you un

June 3, 2002

Very well put, ! I totally agree.

In hindsight, I had to " let go " of the relationship, FOO members, family

memorabilia, inheritances, etc, and then grieving for many months,

before I could handle the situation as describes, and feel good

about it. It didn't happen with the snap of a finger. It was a very

loooooooooong process. And that's what we're all here for, to

facilitate that process.

Smiles!

Carol

wrote:

> I had a really hard time with this for awhile. I

> would feel like I owed people an explanation, or that

> I wanted them to get my side.

>

> After one too many conversations that included " but

> she is your mother " , " you will regret these years when

> she is gone " , ..... I have stopped discussing my

> situation except with a select few.

>

> I now avoid the topic, if people ask where my family

> is I answer the geographic question with no other

> details. If asked if I am from a close knit family, I

> simply say " yes, my mother has two sisters and the

> families get together often. " I don't volunteer that

> I don't go, and that I am not invited. And if asked

> point blank about my relationship with mother by

> someone who its none of there business I say, its

> comfortable, its a good as its ever been <g>, or we

> have found a dynamic that works for us.

>

> For people who know that I am estranged and don't

> approve, I have told them that I choose not to discuss

> the topic any longer. I don't owe anyone an

> explanation, and they don't have to get it.

Jutza wrote:

> > I am curious as to how you respond to others who do

> > not see your nada for the sick person that she is

> > and when they ask you something about her and you

> > say, I don't know what is going on with her. Then

> > the next question is: Are you not speaking again?

> > No...we are not! Why? Because she has kicked me

> > out of her life again! Then (here is where the

> > guilt kicked in) they say...oh that is sad because

> > if something happens to one of you the other one is

> > going to be really sorry!! My nada divorced me

> > AGAIN officially May 14th, but I had felt something

> > in the air for a few months prior. She divorced me

> > by telling my 18 year old that : " I am though with

> > your mother I am done with her and Dean (husband).

> > I want nothing more to do with either one of them.

> > Your mother has mental problems and I am done with

> > her. " No words have been spoken since. But another

> > thing........not only How do you respond to others

> > when they are just appalled that you are not

> > speaking to : YOUR MOTHER - you horrible child

> > you...you ungrateful animal. BUT why in the world

> > is my mother getting so much of my brain time since

> > the divorce??? Before that I hardly gave her a

> > second thought...NOW she is driving me nuts in my

> > head!!! For some reason I cannot remember the last

> > divorce and how I dealt with things...crazy huh? It

> > was only in 1996!! If anyone has any suggestions I

> > would appreciate them!!!

June 3, 2002

Hey!! We have made the very same face. Especially when we got call

blocking:-)

Its funny, as I was reading about your discussion with your nada and bp,e tc.

I immediately thought if my nada admitted to it, she would use it as an

excuse to be even worse than she is.:-)

Good luck during her stay in your area. Its never too late to move with/out

a forwarding addy..lol

Susie & Co.

n a message dated 6/3/02 1:52:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Chu7190565@...

writes:

>

> Hopefully I have tied up my phone line so the old bat gets a busy signal.

> <throwing head back cackeling with cross-eyed, tongue-hanging-out, fool

> looking glee-face>

>

> Cache ya later,

>

> And there is nothing wrong with me, with me, withme,

> withme,withmewithmewithmewith

>

> Rita

>

> " And she'll have fun, fun, fun 'till her daddy takes the keyboard away. "

>

June 3, 2002

When anyone asks about my mother, and I don't want to go into the whole deal,

and defending my non-relationship with her, I just give a " generic " response--

like, she's fine, or they've moved, or they're really busy........ I have no

idea, but any of that could be true, and then I'm not inviting the follow-up

comments. I think the toughest part of being a KO for me, is that feeling of

always wanting to defend yourself-- but it's very freeing if you give it up. I

had to think-- does this person really want to hear all about it, or are they

just asking a polite question. If it was likely that they couldn't or wouldn't

understand, then why waste energy trying to convince them-- I have other friends

who will listen when I need to talk.

A good friend once made the comment, " You can't let those people rent space in

your head. " And sometimes I have to repeat that over and over--- if she's

consuming my thoughts, she wins. It is hard sometimes to get your mind off the

whole mess, and some of that is probably a healing process, but my therapist

used to call it " ruminating " -- my mother does it alot. So, not wanting to be

like her, I try really hard not to. It gets easier with practice. And once you

get good at it, you get really good at it!!! It's so much more peaceful without

toxic people in your life!

How To Respond?

Hi All,

I am curious as to how you respond to others who do not see your nada for the

sick person that she is and when they ask you something about her and you say, I

don't know what is going on with her. Then the next question is: Are you not

speaking again? No...we are not! Why? Because she has kicked me out of her

life again! Then (here is where the guilt kicked in) they say...oh that is sad

because if something happens to one of you the other one is going to be really

sorry!! My nada divorced me AGAIN officially May 14th, but I had felt something

in the air for a few months prior. She divorced me by telling my 18 year old

that : " I am though with your mother I am done with her and Dean (husband). I

want nothing more to do with either one of them. Your mother has mental

problems and I am done with her. " No words have been spoken since. But another

thing........not only How do you respond to others wh! en they are just appalled

that you are not speaking to : YOUR MOTHER - you horrible child you...you

ungrateful animal. BUT why in the world is my mother getting so much of my

brain time since the divorce??? Before that I hardly gave her a second

thought...NOW she is driving me nuts in my head!!! For some reason I cannot

remember the last divorce and how I dealt with things...crazy huh? It was only

in 1996!! If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate them!!! Thanks,

Jutza

---------------------------------

June 3, 2002

Rita, my mother is high functioning and has alienated everyone she cares

about, but she does NOT get it. You're mother does! How does she deal

with it? What's her rationale? She must be unhappy, so how can she

perpetrate that which causes her so much pain?

Smiles!

Carol

Rita wrote:

> The thing Other KO's, is that I'm the most important thing in her life and

> she doesn't have me. (My sister died in '57, my dad in '82 and my aunt stays

> away from her and also my husband except for pre-arranged contact with his

> permission to run interference). By removing myself from her just because I

> couldn't stand it any longer (and told her so and she agreed), it has seemed

> to work wonders. The thing she can't stand has happened. She has been

> abandoned and she has caused it herself and she knows it.

June 3, 2002

OMGGGGG! I think you have the same nada I do. The loneliness, the rages,

all of it. Only it sounds like your nada is more open about her problems.

If you even suggest my nada could change her actions, she goes into her

black and white mode and starts saying things like " how could you say that,