Re: Synthroid, armour, or antidepressants?

[Guest guest]

When my health began to deteriorate about 10 years ago, I was put on antidepressants, antianxiety, and sleep medication. Now that the Armour thyroid is beginning to make a defference, what do I do with the other meds?

Maybe I still need them, maybe not, or just less? Anyone else solved these concerns?

Marilyn A.Jan wrote:

You got it right.

Furthermore, there are some folks who do well on $ynthroid for awhile, but then after awhile they do not.

I know some folks who do better on Unithroid or Levoxyl than they do on $ynthroid, too. And all of the other brands and generics are cheaper than $ynthroid, too.

What is not right is that 98% (not an exact figure, just my guess) of all docs prescribe just one thyroid med for all patients and don't even bother to test Free T3 and Free T4 levels to see what else a symptomatic patient may need. They would rather shove anti-depressants at us. . . .

Ideally, all docs should be open to prescribing whatever med each patient needs to feel well. But they have been brainwashed by BigPharm starting in medical school, through CME and all expense paid "conferences" in tropical locations and those ubiquitous visits from DrugReps, who love to spread rumors that Armour is not going to be made anymore. . . .

Marilyn OHara wrote:

Good question.

This subject/question comes up all the time. Some people are not good converters of T4 into T3. The blood test, if you get all the right ones, will tell if you if you are adequetely converting T4 to T3. That is how you know. Also, if the Synthroid/whatever is not working, one tends to go back to the doctor for more help and/or seek out groups like this to see what else works.

Did I get that right, group?

Marilyn Annhenningc50 wrote:

Gosh, I didn't know most people didn't feel well on synthroid alone. I was wondering how you know that. I mean the people who look for something else are here, but are they the majority? And why do people have to end up needing a T3 supplement. I heard that T3 conversion takes place in places other than the thyroid, so does that mean other systems are deteriorating? Just lots of questions.Lynn wrote:

My only problem with a Dr is......If they aren't willing to do the best for thepatient, then they need to be removed from the list. Whether they prescribeArmour, or not.Bottom line, Dr's need to listen to their patients, and do the best for them!Most people do not feel well on Synthroid alone, that is why they search andsearch for a group like this to give them ideas that their Dr's never gave them achose to explore.Most likely, there will come a time that your friends will be needing somethingmore that just T4----that's when they will need an open minded Dr.(just 2 cents worth, from a very frustrated patient!)Lynn

Yahoo! for GoodClick here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

That's something you should probably discuss with your doctor. If your

depression and anxiety were symptoms of your hypothyroidism, you might

be able to taper off them and do without. If you really have a problem

with clinical depression, maybe not. I wouldn't just drop them cold

turkey, though.

My husband has been on antidepressants since we got married (he SAYS

there's no connection!) and is also on cholesterol meds. He was also on

high blood pressure meds for a while, but his current doc upped the

anti-d's and that fixed that issue. He is going to see Dr. Ozan for a

checkup soon, and I'm nagging him to have his thyroid checked. You just

never know.

When my health began to deteriorate about 10 years ago, I was

put on antidepressants, antianxiety, and sleep medication.

Now that the Armour thyroid is beginning to make a defference, what do

I do with the other meds?

Maybe I still need them, maybe not, or just less? Anyone else solved these concerns?

Marilyn A.

[Guest guest]

Antidepressants fixed hypertension?! That's incredible. And no, I wasn't thinking of dropping any meds suddenly. Just wondered how others have handled the being prescribed medicines for depression when thyroid meds might have been more appropriate. I don't think I was depressed but I was tired and had pain. Also, like an early physician of mine used to say when I tried to lump symptoms together, "It's possible to have both fleas and tics." he said it over and over until I got it.

Marilyn A.Betsy wrote:

That's something you should probably discuss with your doctor. If your depression and anxiety were symptoms of your hypothyroidism, you might be able to taper off them and do without. If you really have a problem with clinical depression, maybe not. I wouldn't just drop them cold turkey, though.My husband has been on antidepressants since we got married (he SAYS there's no connection!) and is also on cholesterol meds. He was also on high blood pressure meds for a while, but his current doc upped the anti-d's and that fixed that issue. He is going to see Dr. Ozan for a checkup soon, and I'm nagging him to have his thyroid checked. You just never know.

When my health began to deteriorate about 10 years ago, I was put on antidepressants, antianxiety, and sleep medication. Now that the Armour thyroid is beginning to make a defference, what do I do with the other meds?

Maybe I still need them, maybe not, or just less? Anyone else solved these concerns?

Marilyn A.

[Guest guest]

Marilyn - I, too, have been on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety

meds for 10 years. I was in pretty rough, worn out shape, when I

went to see Dr. in January. He only said he hoped I could

end up off of them eventually, and I was very glad to hear that. But

he didn't want to do anything for awhile, and I was fine with that.

As I got better on Armour and the complete regimen, I could tell I

was on too much medication. I cut back after getting an ok from

. I've come down from 40mg to 30mg of nortriptyline very

slowly, and I'm still sleeping ok and my mood and energy are much

better. But I went very, very, slowly -- I mean 6-8 weeks of

alternating the higher dose for a couple of days with one day of the

next lower dose, and slowly increasing the number of days of the

lower dose. I had done this in the past, trying to get off of them,

but didn't know how sick I was getting, and would have to go back up

when I hit periods of heavy stress and bad sleep. I found that

tapering down this slowly kept me from any withdrawl symptoms at

all. The last time I saw Dr. , in July, he was fine with my

tapering off at my own speed, since he could see I was better and

was sleeping fine.

The tougher withdrawl for me will be the clonazepam. I will probably

have to titrate it to get off of it, maybe 10% at a time, on a very

slow withdrawl. It's tougher to quit, since it's a benzodiazapine,

and I've been on it 5 years. But if the Armour and the other meds

keep making me stronger, I don't think my nervous system will notice

it nearly so much as before. And, if I find that I still need a

small amount of either med, I will still take them. I hope I can get

off all of it, but it might not be possible. C'est la vie.

I strongly suggest that you go very slowly, one med at a time, and

talk it over with your doctor first. I know my depression and

anxiety were real, but I just don't think they are, what would you

call it, " clinical. " They developed from my thyroid failing, and my

exhaustion trying to keep going, and from the nightmare of stress

from my HMO I was with REFUSING TO TEST MY HORMONES WHEN I BEGGED

THEM TO DO IT. Sorry, I'm still carrying around a great deal of

anger over that. Not only that they did that to me, but that I

didn't trust myself and put my health first and see a doctor outside

that scam they call managed care. I knew that what was wrong was not

depression as my primary illness, but I didn't advocate for myself

enough. Ten years of one's life is a lot to pay to learn a lesson.

I think if your Armour is " beginning " to make a difference, you

might wait a little while longer before starting to withdraw from

those meds. But if they are in the way, and you are feeling too

sedated and it's uncomfortable, but you are sleeping ok and your

spirits are better, then you might be ready to start doing it. It's

very individual to know when to do it. Have you perhaps seen any

therapists you could discuss this with besides your physician? That

might help, too.

Feel free to email me or ask any more questions here, as I know

making these decisions about stopping anti-depressants and anti-

anxiety meds are not easy.

Sara

> When my health began to deteriorate about 10 years ago, I was put

on antidepressants, antianxiety, and sleep medication. Now that the

Armour thyroid is beginning to make a defference, what do I do with

the other meds?

>

> Maybe I still need them, maybe not, or just less? Anyone else

solved these concerns?

>

> Marilyn A.

>

[Guest guest]

You might want to work with your doc on easing off of them, one at a time. Just don't try to stop cold turkey. Some folks do still need these drugs after their thyroid levels are optimized. Most do not. But what you may need is highly individual.

Many hypo folks get put on anti-depressants that they did not need in the first place. My doc insisted that I was depressed when I told him how tired I was. The Prozac made me even more tired. . . .I quit it after two weeks.

Marilyn OHara wrote:

When my health began to deteriorate about 10 years ago, I was put on antidepressants, antianxiety, and sleep medication. Now that the Armour thyroid is beginning to make a defference, what do I do with the other meds?

Maybe I still need them, maybe not, or just less? Anyone else solved these concerns?

Marilyn A.Jan wrote:

You got it right.

Furthermore, there are some folks who do well on $ynthroid for awhile, but then after awhile they do not.

I know some folks who do better on Unithroid or Levoxyl than they do on $ynthroid, too. And all of the other brands and generics are cheaper than $ynthroid, too.

What is not right is that 98% (not an exact figure, just my guess) of all docs prescribe just one thyroid med for all patients and don't even bother to test Free T3 and Free T4 levels to see what else a symptomatic patient may need. They would rather shove anti-depressants at us. . . .

Ideally, all docs should be open to prescribing whatever med each patient needs to feel well. But they have been brainwashed by BigPharm starting in medical school, through CME and all expense paid "conferences" in tropical locations and those ubiquitous visits from DrugReps, who love to spread rumors that Armour is not going to be made anymore. . . .

Marilyn OHara wrote:

Good question.

This subject/question comes up all the time. Some people are not good converters of T4 into T3. The blood test, if you get all the right ones, will tell if you if you are adequetely converting T4 to T3. That is how you know. Also, if the Synthroid/whatever is not working, one tends to go back to the doctor for more help and/or seek out groups like this to see what else works.

Did I get that right, group?

Marilyn Annhenningc50 wrote:

Gosh, I didn't know most people didn't feel well on synthroid alone. I was wondering how you know that. I mean the people who look for something else are here, but are they the majority? And why do people have to end up needing a T3 supplement. I heard that T3 conversion takes place in places other than the thyroid, so does that mean other systems are deteriorating? Just lots of questions.Lynn wrote:

My only problem with a Dr is......If they aren't willing to do the best for thepatient, then they need to be removed from the list. Whether they prescribeArmour, or not.Bottom line, Dr's need to listen to their patients, and do the best for them!Most people do not feel well on Synthroid alone, that is why they search andsearch for a group like this to give them ideas that their Dr's never gave them achose to explore.Most likely, there will come a time that your friends will be needing somethingmore that just T4----that's when they will need an open minded Dr.(just 2 cents worth, from a very frustrated patient!)Lynn

Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

Hi Betsy,

Maybe you should schedule an appointment for your nice hubby the

next time you have one of your own scheduled in Lubbock! Little did

we know that Bill's ongoing fatigue (and I think crabbiness but

don't tell him I said so!) was a result of hypothyroidism and very

low DHEA ...

>

> My husband has been on antidepressants since we got married (he

SAYS there's

> no connection!) and is also on cholesterol meds. He was also on

high blood

> pressure meds for a while, but his current doc upped the anti-d's

and that

> fixed that issue. He is going to see Dr. Ozan for a checkup soon,

and I'm

> nagging him to have his thyroid checked. You just never know.

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe you and your doctor can reevaluate your use of

these medications? I have clinical depression on both

sides of my family, and so I'm awfully cautious about

telling people to go on, or off, psychotropics.

I've seen people who functioned better on the meds,

and I've seen people who did much better off of the

meds. Everything depends on your personal profile.

Most psychotropics created new symptoms for me, and I

have yet to be diagnosed with true clinical depression

myself. I keep doing self-checks, and I see my

therapist once a week. My bugaboo of the last three

years has been anxiety.

--- Marilyn OHara wrote:

> When my health began to deteriorate about 10 years

> ago, I was put on antidepressants, antianxiety, and

> sleep medication. Now that the Armour thyroid is

> beginning to make a defference, what do I do with

> the other meds?

>

> Maybe I still need them, maybe not, or just less?

> Anyone else solved these concerns?

>

> Marilyn A.

>

[Guest guest]

, I thought of that, of course. But we can't afford one of us

going to an out-of-network doctor, let alone two! I remember your

talking about Bill's diagnosis.

Dr. Ozan will at least run the right tests and prescribe the right meds

if there IS a problem. I think that will work if it a basic hypo

situation with no bells or whistles.

If not, then we'll re-evaluate.

I think I've read here at some point that Dr. R doesn't take Medicare,

either. :-( Milton's eligible for that in December. Couldn't have come

at a worse time - they're making a major change in our insurance at

work, and between my illness and the medicare issue, I'm about to tear

my (non-existant) hair out! And when is enrollment? In the middle of

hypo-hell and RAI!!! Luckily I'll stay covered even if I do nothing! On 10/1/05, <leoyellowrose@...

> wrote:Hi Betsy,Maybe you should schedule an appointment for your nice hubby the

next time you have one of your own scheduled in Lubbock! Little didwe know that Bill's ongoing fatigue (and I think crabbiness butdon't tell him I said so!) was a result of hypothyroidism and verylow DHEA ...

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sara, I think the same thing that happened to you also happened to me. By that I mean that I think my hypothyroid and hypopituitary issues led to RX for psychological meds for the complaints of fatigue, sleeplessness, etc. I remember thinking I was not depressed at first but was aware of the overlap of symptoms. As the meds didn't help, the doc increased them. Eventually, I was frustrated and depressed. But, the fatigue came first.

I will follow your excellent advice and will also find the right doctor to help me before starting. Thanks for sharing your experience, it is very helpful.

Marilyn A.Sara wrote:

Marilyn - I, too, have been on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds for 10 years. I was in pretty rough, worn out shape, when I went to see Dr. in January. He only said he hoped I could end up off of them eventually, and I was very glad to hear that. But he didn't want to do anything for awhile, and I was fine with that.As I got better on Armour and the complete regimen, I could tell I was on too much medication. I cut back after getting an ok from . I've come down from 40mg to 30mg of nortriptyline very slowly, and I'm still sleeping ok and my mood and energy are much better. But I went very, very, slowly -- I mean 6-8 weeks of alternating the higher dose for a couple of days with one day of the next lower dose, and slowly increasing the number of days of the lower dose. I had done this in the past, trying to get

off of them, but didn't know how sick I was getting, and would have to go back up when I hit periods of heavy stress and bad sleep. I found that tapering down this slowly kept me from any withdrawl symptoms at all. The last time I saw Dr. , in July, he was fine with my tapering off at my own speed, since he could see I was better and was sleeping fine.The tougher withdrawl for me will be the clonazepam. I will probably have to titrate it to get off of it, maybe 10% at a time, on a very slow withdrawl. It's tougher to quit, since it's a benzodiazapine, and I've been on it 5 years. But if the Armour and the other meds keep making me stronger, I don't think my nervous system will notice it nearly so much as before. And, if I find that I still need a small amount of either med, I will still take them. I hope I can get off all of it, but it might not be possible. C'est la vie.I strongly suggest that you go very

slowly, one med at a time, and talk it over with your doctor first. I know my depression and anxiety were real, but I just don't think they are, what would you call it, "clinical." They developed from my thyroid failing, and my exhaustion trying to keep going, and from the nightmare of stress from my HMO I was with REFUSING TO TEST MY HORMONES WHEN I BEGGED THEM TO DO IT. Sorry, I'm still carrying around a great deal of anger over that. Not only that they did that to me, but that I didn't trust myself and put my health first and see a doctor outside that scam they call managed care. I knew that what was wrong was not depression as my primary illness, but I didn't advocate for myself enough. Ten years of one's life is a lot to pay to learn a lesson.I think if your Armour is "beginning" to make a difference, you might wait a little while longer before starting to withdraw from those meds. But if they are in the way, and you

are feeling too sedated and it's uncomfortable, but you are sleeping ok and your spirits are better, then you might be ready to start doing it. It's very individual to know when to do it. Have you perhaps seen any therapists you could discuss this with besides your physician? That might help, too.Feel free to email me or ask any more questions here, as I know making these decisions about stopping anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds are not easy.Sara> When my health began to deteriorate about 10 years ago, I was put on antidepressants, antianxiety, and sleep medication. Now that the Armour thyroid is beginning to make a defference, what do I do with the other meds?> > Maybe I still need them, maybe not, or just less? Anyone else solved these concerns?> >

Marilyn A.>