Re: Antidepressants

[Guest guest]

Thanks Guys,

I fully understand the need to advise me not to give up long standing meds abruptly, which could precipitate a crisis (psychotic break) even in a healthy person. I promise I won't and it is good advice. You are responsible people and are concerned about my well being. That is reassuring, really.

In reviewing my message I realize I have worded my query poorly and in a frightening way. I am fairly versed in the mental health field and work in it. I just wanted to know if other people, than I, found themselves treated for symptoms that looked psychological and later found that the primary problem was probably hormonal. Maybe both, but maybe not. If so, did you find you still needed the previous meds? Did you find you were better off with less psychotropic meds? Or, totally eliminate them, over an adequate length of time to avoid withdrawal symptoms, of course?

I just want to hear anyone's experience along that line, if you've dealt with these issues. Sorry to worry anyone.

Marilyn A.-- Two Marilyns in the group. I thought I had an alter ego when I first saw my name attached to messages I didn't remember sending. So, I'll use an initial "A." to differentiate myself from my new friend, Marilyn (the other one).

Courtenay wrote: Maybe you and your doctor can reevaluate your use ofthese medications? I have clinical depression on bothsides of my family, and so I'm awfully cautious abouttelling people to go on, or off, psychotropics. I've seen people who functioned better on the meds,and I've seen people who did much better off of themeds. Everything depends on your personal profile.Most psychotropics created new symptoms for me, and Ihave yet to be diagnosed with true clinical depressionmyself. I keep doing self-checks, and I see mytherapist once a week. My bugaboo of the last threeyears has been anxiety.--- Marilyn OHara wrote:> When my health began to deteriorate about 10 years> ago, I was put on antidepressants, antianxiety, and> sleep medication. Now that

the Armour thyroid is> beginning to make a defference, what do I do with> the other meds?> > Maybe I still need them, maybe not, or just less? > Anyone else solved these concerns?> > Marilyn A.>

[Guest guest]

Hey Marilyn A.--

I hope I didn't make you feel funky about your

original question-- I'm just extra cautious when it

comes to psychotropics. I wonder how you would

assess, given that you're still on them, what to do

next? What's the usual protocol?

Best--

Courtenay.

--- Marilyn OHara wrote:

Maybe both, but maybe

> not. If so, did you find you still needed the

> previous meds? Did you find you were better off

> with less psychotropic meds? Or, totally eliminate

> them, over an adequate length of time to avoid

> withdrawal symptoms, of course?

>

> I just want to hear anyone's experience along that

> line, if you've dealt with these issues. Sorry to

> worry anyone.

>

> Marilyn A.-- Two Marilyns in the group. I thought

> I had an alter ego when I first saw my name attached

> to messages I didn't remember sending. So, I'll use

> an initial " A. " to differentiate myself from my new

> friend, Marilyn (the other one).

[Guest guest]

Courtenay,

Hope you are feeling better now. Enjoy your trip.

Your question: If I were wanting to change antidepressants, I would cut down slowly on one while starting slowly on the next one over several weeks. All in one week if I was taking a low dose. Going from one pill to 3/4, for several days to 1 week, plus 1/4 of the new pill for the same length of time. Then to 1/2 of each old and new pill for several days, to 1/4 of the old plus 3/4 of the new for several days.

In leaving a medication altogether, I would have to decide which was first to eliminate. I think my antidepressant causes the need for sleep meds so I would probably cut down on the antidepressant first, in reverse order from the way I built it up. Probably a week or two at each strength going down. If symptoms of withdrawl are troublesome, stop at that strength for awhile.

The docs have medication to stablize withdrawl of many meds and that is a good reason to have a doc oversee discontinuation. I am pretty chicked about discomfort.

I have discontinued meds abruptly without any discomfort but I think I was just lucky or picked the right meds. Steroids should never be discontinued abruptly, for instance. Heavy alcohol withdrawl requires other meds, because DTs are dangerous.

It is a complicated question. I have a number of problems I am treated for, including hypertension, so I'm in no hurry. I'll get medical advice to do it. I just wanted to know if anyone else dealt with the same issues. I really wasn't asking for someone to make my decisions for me, though I reread my message and admit it appeared that way.

After I start decreasing some meds, I'll just deal with what turns up at that point. My systems may have been realigned by meds I've been taking.

Marilyn A.Courtenay wrote:

Hey Marilyn A.--I hope I didn't make you feel funky about youroriginal question-- I'm just extra cautious when itcomes to psychotropics. I wonder how you wouldassess, given that you're still on them, what to donext? What's the usual protocol?Best--Courtenay.--- Marilyn OHara wrote:Maybe both, but maybe> not. If so, did you find you still needed the> previous meds? Did you find you were better off> with less psychotropic meds? Or, totally eliminate> them, over an adequate length of time to avoid> withdrawal symptoms, of course? > > I just want to hear anyone's experience along that> line, if you've dealt with these issues. Sorry to> worry anyone.> > Marilyn

A.-- Two Marilyns in the group. I thought> I had an alter ego when I first saw my name attached> to messages I didn't remember sending. So, I'll use> an initial "A." to differentiate myself from my new> friend, Marilyn (the other one).

[Guest guest]

I was on psychotropics of all varieties up until approximately 5 to 6 yrs ago, even during the time that I really got down to researching my thyroid disease. Way back, going t'wd the end of 1986, was my first experience with "emotional, mental symptoms", following yrs of having lengthy heavy periods that would never stop, it seemed (progesterone loss, not estrogen loss). I couldn't sit still, had extreme doom and gloom, suicidal thoughts, racing thoughts, extreme weight loss, and, as I have stated on here before, was running like a hamster on a wheel because of the extreme nerves I had. I am 5'6" tall, and got down to 113 lbs, eating still, normally. I would wake up with a pounding heart, have feelings of extreme dread, grayed out all morning and afternoon, then suddenly, my spirits would lift starting at around nightfall. One doctor said it was the progesterone and gave me xanax. Another doctor gave me Centrax and Nortriptylene (sp?) and asked me had I "ever heard of anxiety or panic attacks". Another gave me a big shot of estrogen and proclaimed it that without ever testing. This all went on for over 6 yrs, and not one of them EVER suggested my thyroid (don't get me started even!). Of course, I suggested approximately 6 times over, being as I'd been reading a Merck Manual since 1982 or so, and had a new one in 1987, where this book literally now opens to the pages on thyroid, from that long nightmare. I was fed the line about the Female Change, Hysteria, Panic Attacks, Estrogen, etc...etc...etc......until I was soooo sick of it. The next doctor let me suffer until I had now GAINED weight, had nylon for hair, was now so depressed that I could hardly get out of bed, and I walked into HIS office off of the street, out of desperation, with blinding headaches that made me not even know where I was at, at times. It's a wonder I didn't get in a wreck getting to his office on those occasions. Plus, out of survival, I was till going to work this way. I had begged ALL of these doctors to test my thyroid, to no avail, not even a TSH, if they were even doing that test at that time. It was all clinical depression, yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. I KNEW it wasn't. Also, from the old TCAs (which I should never have had because of my brother's history of manic depressive disorder and my own behavior later on, to boot), I had a variety of 3---Pamelor (nortryptilene), Imipramine, another TCA I can't remember the name of, and Trazodone, which gave me extreme panic attacks AND MADE me manic, as well as the hyperthyroidism I later know I had (first phase of Hashi's). Finally, the doctor who made me suffer through the headaches did test me for hypothyroidism, as I called him up at his office SCREAMING that he had to do something NOW, because I was having these shakes approximately every 4 hrs or so, without fail, right on rhythm, accompanied by feelings of extreme doom. He says, "I think I know what it is, come on in, and we'll draw blood". Guess what, thyroid tests. I said "No duh! I tried to tell you this about a hundred times, why wouldn't you listen to me?!" He says "I needed to feel sure about it". OMG, you needed to feel sure??????????? Isn't that what the blood tests are for, stupid? I have to feel like killing myself for you to be sure, you idiot?????? Anyway, that started me on a long journey of treatment that was ALWAYS undertreatment for approximately the next 9 yrs or so. From the beginning, it was 100 mcgs of either $ynthroid (yes, $ynthroid) or Levoxyl, forever and ever, even though he always ran a TSH only, and it was ALWAYS a 5.5. The next doctor I chose did the same thing forever. Meanwhile, I was studying everything I could get my hands on on the Internet having to do with thyroid, including this disease they talked about a lot called Hashimoto's, which I'd never been diagnosed with, except for my suspecting it. During the later yrs there, I was also fed one SSRI after the other, including Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Paxil, and whatever that other come-lately one was at the time. Each of these made me feel like the walking dead. I could have killed someone and not felt a thing and no remorse whatsoever. I never laughed, the expression on my face never changed, etc....etc....etc....But never mind, each time I would complain, these dumb doctors would feed me yet another SSRI. My skin turned all yellow, every bone in my body ached, I couldn't even climb stairs at my apartment, nor could I sleep. Of course, it couldn't be my thyroid, since my family had a very big history of "clinical depression", "manic-depressive disorder", some with suicidal tendencies, and all the trimmings (Gosh, could they ALL have had thyroid disease, I wonder, it IS heriditary, you know). And, BTW, TWO of my 3 daughters have been diagnosed with Hashi's, but only on acct of me, frankly, and my now-pushy attitude about this. However, neither one of THEIR treatment has been any better than MINE was, that is, until I started self treatment (It has still been a roller coaster ride with self treatment, but I can jump, run, smile, etc...now, at least). I weaned myself off of a 4 yr manic ride of Imipramine back in 1998, but then tried all the said SSRIs later on. Nothing was wrong with me except for my thyroid, plus I probably have had some low adrenal issues because of it. Then there is the progesterone that I so badly needed way back there but never got until I bought it myself (cream). Oh yes, then there's all that estrogen that I took, the doctor gave me, but I didn't need (estradiol type, horse kind). I won't say that I don't have female hormone imbalance, but I do know that my main problem in all this time has been the thyroid, Hashi's antibodies' tricks. I am not depressed, except about what's happening to people all over the world who have a lame thyroid. Remembering that woman in India a few yrs ago who set herself on fire because she could not get thyroid treatment.

Re: Antidepressants

Thanks Guys,

I fully understand the need to advise me not to give up long standing meds abruptly, which could precipitate a crisis (psychotic break) even in a healthy person. I promise I won't and it is good advice. You are responsible people and are concerned about my well being. That is reassuring, really.

In reviewing my message I realize I have worded my query poorly and in a frightening way. I am fairly versed in the mental health field and work in it. I just wanted to know if other people, than I, found themselves treated for symptoms that looked psychological and later found that the primary problem was probably hormonal. Maybe both, but maybe not. If so, did you find you still needed the previous meds? Did you find you were better off with less psychotropic meds? Or, totally eliminate them, over an adequate length of time to avoid withdrawal symptoms, of course?

I just want to hear anyone's experience along that line, if you've dealt with these issues. Sorry to worry anyone.

Marilyn A.-- Two Marilyns in the group. I thought I had an alter ego when I first saw my name attached to messages I didn't remember sending. So, I'll use an initial "A." to differentiate myself from my new friend, Marilyn (the other one).

[Guest guest]

,

Wow! I asked for it and I got it. That sounds a lot like my story. I was always overly thin, too, but I can't just eat anything anymore or stay thin, My body is changing, and it is not just what I eat or aging, or emotions.

It was easy to convince me, also, that my issues were psychological because that is my career field and my crazy, alcoholic family. I have been through times I have been temporarily depressed because of external situations but I think I know the difference. Years back, I was put on an antidepressant that MADE me feel depressed and suicidal. I barely had the strength, to reach through the fog, to insist to the doctor....didn't want to scare him and end up in a psych hospital..... about how I felt. "I wake up in the morning and think 'I have got to get it together today to kill myself. I can't stand how I feel.' " I guess he thought I was kidding, he just told it was not the medicine and to increase it. I finally got across to him to change meds. Now, the articles and workshops are warning that some antidepressants can cause suicidal thoughts. I think any person, like me, can tell that but it does

require a physician to listen and not increase same meds.

Unlike you, I never thought of my thyroid, though others had asked and tested for it, and finally located the problem. I have always been a night person, too. Were you able to get totally off the antidepressants, benzodiazapines, sleep meds or what not?

I have more hope now and more time out of the "fog" to figure out what it going on. It is amazing to me how many specialists I have been to, any of whom could have addressed their organ of expertise and it's deficiency. This is a big elephant all the blind people are walking around trying to describe and build an inner picture of. If you remember that story of the three blind men describing their perception of an elephant. One says,"Its covered with rough skin and huge." Second says, "No, it has a long hose like shape, open and flexible at the end." Last says, "No, it has a medium length of rough hair like a rope that is matted together and smells bad."

Thanks so much, , for taking the time & effort to review those painful and disappointing experiences in order to recount them. Getting in touch with the anger can be more empowering than being in touch with the depression in organizing an attach on the problem.

Marilyn A.

wrote:

I was on psychotropics of all varieties up until approximately 5 to 6 yrs ago, even during the time that I really got down to researching my thyroid disease. Way back, going t'wd the end of 1986, was my first experience with "emotional, mental symptoms", following yrs of having lengthy heavy periods that would never stop, it seemed (progesterone loss, not estrogen loss). I couldn't sit still, had extreme doom and gloom, suicidal thoughts, racing thoughts, extreme weight loss, and, as I have stated on here before, was running like a hamster on a wheel because of the extreme nerves I had. I am 5'6" tall, and got down to 113 lbs, eating still, normally. I would wake up with a pounding heart, have feelings of extreme dread, grayed out all morning and afternoon, then suddenly, my spirits would lift starting at around nightfall. One doctor said it was the progesterone and gave me xanax. Another doctor gave me Centrax and

Nortriptylene (sp?) and asked me had I "ever heard of anxiety or panic attacks". Another gave me a big shot of estrogen and proclaimed it that without ever testing. This all went on for over 6 yrs, and not one of them EVER suggested my thyroid (don't get me started even!). Of course, I suggested approximately 6 times over, being as I'd been reading a Merck Manual since 1982 or so, and had a new one in 1987, where this book literally now opens to the pages on thyroid, from that long nightmare. I was fed the line about the Female Change, Hysteria, Panic Attacks, Estrogen, etc...etc...etc......until I was soooo sick of it. The next doctor let me suffer until I had now GAINED weight, had nylon for hair, was now so depressed that I could hardly get out of bed, and I walked into HIS office off of the street, out of desperation, with blinding headaches that made me not even know where I was at, at times. It's a wonder I didn't get in a wreck getting to

his office on those occasions. Plus, out of survival, I was till going to work this way. I had begged ALL of these doctors to test my thyroid, to no avail, not even a TSH, if they were even doing that test at that time. It was all clinical depression, yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. I KNEW it wasn't. Also, from the old TCAs (which I should never have had because of my brother's history of manic depressive disorder and my own behavior later on, to boot), I had a variety of 3---Pamelor (nortryptilene), Imipramine, another TCA I can't remember the name of, and Trazodone, which gave me extreme panic attacks AND MADE me manic, as well as the hyperthyroidism I later know I had (first phase of Hashi's). Finally, the doctor who made me suffer through the headaches did test me for hypothyroidism, as I called him up at his office SCREAMING that he had to do something NOW, because I was having these shakes approximately every 4 hrs or so, without fail,

right on rhythm, accompanied by feelings of extreme doom. He says, "I think I know what it is, come on in, and we'll draw blood". Guess what, thyroid tests. I said "No duh! I tried to tell you this about a hundred times, why wouldn't you listen to me?!" He says "I needed to feel sure about it". OMG, you needed to feel sure??????????? Isn't that what the blood tests are for, stupid? I have to feel like killing myself for you to be sure, you idiot?????? Anyway, that started me on a long journey of treatment that was ALWAYS undertreatment for approximately the next 9 yrs or so. From the beginning, it was 100 mcgs of either $ynthroid (yes, $ynthroid) or Levoxyl, forever and ever, even though he always ran a TSH only, and it was ALWAYS a 5.5. The next doctor I chose did the same thing forever. Meanwhile, I was studying everything I could get my hands on on the Internet having to do with thyroid, including this

disease they talked about a lot called Hashimoto's, which I'd never been diagnosed with, except for my suspecting it. During the later yrs there, I was also fed one SSRI after the other, including Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Paxil, and whatever that other come-lately one was at the time. Each of these made me feel like the walking dead. I could have killed someone and not felt a thing and no remorse whatsoever. I never laughed, the expression on my face never changed, etc....etc....etc....But never mind, each time I would complain, these dumb doctors would feed me yet another SSRI. My skin turned all yellow, every bone in my body ached, I couldn't even climb stairs at my apartment, nor could I sleep. Of course, it couldn't be my thyroid, since my family had a very big history of "clinical depression", "manic-depressive disorder", some with suicidal tendencies, and all the trimmings (Gosh, could they ALL have had thyroid disease, I wonder, it IS

heriditary, you know). And, BTW, TWO of my 3 daughters have been diagnosed with Hashi's, but only on acct of me, frankly, and my now-pushy attitude about this. However, neither one of THEIR treatment has been any better than MINE was, that is, until I started self treatment (It has still been a roller coaster ride with self treatment, but I can jump, run, smile, etc...now, at least). I weaned myself off of a 4 yr manic ride of Imipramine back in 1998, but then tried all the said SSRIs later on. Nothing was wrong with me except for my thyroid, plus I probably have had some low adrenal issues because of it. Then there is the progesterone that I so badly needed way back there but never got until I bought it myself (cream). Oh yes, then there's all that estrogen that I took, the doctor gave me, but I didn't need (estradiol type, horse kind). I won't say that I don't have female hormone imbalance, but I do know that my main problem in all this

time has been the thyroid, Hashi's antibodies' tricks. I am not depressed, except about what's happening to people all over the world who have a lame thyroid. Remembering that woman in India a few yrs ago who set herself on fire because she could not get thyroid treatment.

Re: Antidepressants

Thanks Guys,

I fully understand the need to advise me not to give up long standing meds abruptly, which could precipitate a crisis (psychotic break) even in a healthy person. I promise I won't and it is good advice. You are responsible people and are concerned about my well being. That is reassuring, really.

In reviewing my message I realize I have worded my query poorly and in a frightening way. I am fairly versed in the mental health field and work in it. I just wanted to know if other people, than I, found themselves treated for symptoms that looked psychological and later found that the primary problem was probably hormonal. Maybe both, but maybe not. If so, did you find you still needed the previous meds? Did you find you were better off with less psychotropic meds? Or, totally eliminate them, over an adequate length of time to avoid withdrawal symptoms, of course?

I just want to hear anyone's experience along that line, if you've dealt with these issues. Sorry to worry anyone.

Marilyn A.-- Two Marilyns in the group. I thought I had an alter ego when I first saw my name attached to messages I didn't remember sending. So, I'll use an initial "A." to differentiate myself from my new friend, Marilyn (the other one).

[Guest guest]

I have not had antidepressants, tranquilizers, sleep meds, or the like in over 3 to 4 yrs now, round about there. I'm not saying that I've not had very sad moments, but that's what they are, things that truly do need to be grieved over in a very natural way, this is normal. Because I am now treating myself more properly (thyroid and nutrients, namely folic acid and B12, in my case), I can now lay things out on the table and look at them for what they are, deal with them, then either discard them, hold them, or put them away for later scrutiny. I can now handle things in a rational way, even though I don't believe that there is anything rational about grief. Past relationships now are simply ways to learn about now and the future, and I don't feel like I'm going to die any minute. I also don't freeze up from panic or have doom and gloom feelings. I do admit that my spiritual life changes have also done a large part of this, but it was the physical chemistry that had me turned completely upsidedown. I have said on this forum before (about the manic period, which was yrs long) that I looked back, AFTER I went from hyper to a crashed hypo, and said "Who WAS that, I don't recognize that person??". I am a strong believer in bipolar disorder basically being caused by either an outright lame thyroid or a very subtly lame one that doesn't fit the "normal" test patterns. Neurotransmitters in the brain are VERY strongly affected by the thyroid hormones or lack thereof. One thing that I seem to have retained a little of, since not being quite so hypo, is being bothered by a lot of noise and crowds. Not fear of crowds, just the hustle and bustle and noise of noisy grocery stores, entertainment places, and the like. This I consider to be a case of weakened adrenal glands that have been war torn by all of life and the lame thyroid (for so long). I have found this information on the adrenal glands in many many readings in various places. I believe that the adrenals have improved, though I haven't proven by testing that they are either weak or have recently improved. This I know, because when they were probably in their weakest state, I couldn't bare to have light in the house, everything had to be dim for me to be calm, and when I heard a weak slightly strange noise, I would jump out of my skin, and my heart would beat for 2 to 3 hrs after just a small startle. This hasn't happened so much lately. The adrenal glands are so intimately connected with the workings of the thyroid that one can't possibly go without the other one at all. When one is weak, the other one will work itself to death until it's completely tuckered out. The endocrine system is one in which every single thing is dependent on the other one, just like dominos falling. Guess this was long enough, huh?

Re: Antidepressants

,

Wow! I asked for it and I got it. That sounds a lot like my story. I was always overly thin, too, but I can't just eat anything anymore or stay thin, My body is changing, and it is not just what I eat or aging, or emotions.

It was easy to convince me, also, that my issues were psychological because that is my career field and my crazy, alcoholic family. I have been through times I have been temporarily depressed because of external situations but I think I know the difference. Years back, I was put on an antidepressant that MADE me feel depressed and suicidal. I barely had the strength, to reach through the fog, to insist to the doctor....didn't want to scare him and end up in a psych hospital..... about how I felt. "I wake up in the morning and think 'I have got to get it together today to kill myself. I can't stand how I feel.' " I guess he thought I was kidding, he just told it was not the medicine and to increase it. I finally got across to him to change meds. Now, the articles and workshops are warning that some antidepressants can cause suicidal thoughts. I think any person, like me, can tell that but it does require a physician to listen and not increase same meds.

Unlike you, I never thought of my thyroid, though others had asked and tested for it, and finally located the problem. I have always been a night person, too. Were you able to get totally off the antidepressants, benzodiazapines, sleep meds or what not?

I have more hope now and more time out of the "fog" to figure out what it going on. It is amazing to me how many specialists I have been to, any of whom could have addressed their organ of expertise and it's deficiency. This is a big elephant all the blind people are walking around trying to describe and build an inner picture of. If you remember that story of the three blind men describing their perception of an elephant. One says,"Its covered with rough skin and huge." Second says, "No, it has a long hose like shape, open and flexible at the end." Last says, "No, it has a medium length of rough hair like a rope that is matted together and smells bad."

Thanks so much, , for taking the time & effort to review those painful and disappointing experiences in order to recount them. Getting in touch with the anger can be more empowering than being in touch with the depression in organizing an attach on the problem.

Marilyn A.

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

That was very interesting and a lot to think about. I have got to get my adrenals checked. I have begun to visualize the hormone system as a mobile, where when any one gets out of balance the others will be also.

I do not like crowded places, background noise, and have an exaggerated startle response and always have felt that way to some extent. I thought it had gotten worse due to lose of hearing accuity. Movies and TV are harder to understand, some sounds, and background noise and music is very annoying. About 10 years ago, at menopause, I began to have migraine headaches and felt as you do about light. Or maybe just my Blanche DuBoise imitation from Streetcare Named Desire, seeking dim light to hide my age. (LOL)

It is obvious you have worked through a great deal and have accumulated a lot of knowledge and wisdom from it. It makes me sad you had to go through so much but I am really grateful that you have taken the time and effort to share what you have learned with me. I am such a newbie and have so much to learn.

Thanks,

Marilyn A.

wrote:

I have not had antidepressants, tranquilizers, sleep meds, or the like in over 3 to 4 yrs now, round about there. I'm not saying that I've not had very sad moments, but that's what they are, things that truly do need to be grieved over in a very natural way, this is normal. Because I am now treating myself more properly (thyroid and nutrients, namely folic acid and B12, in my case), I can now lay things out on the table and look at them for what they are, deal with them, then either discard them, hold them, or put them away for later scrutiny. I can now handle things in a rational way, even though I don't believe that there is anything rational about grief. Past relationships now are simply ways to learn about now and the future, and I don't feel like I'm going to die any minute. I also don't freeze up from panic or have doom and gloom feelings. I do admit that my spiritual life changes have also done a large part of

this, but it was the physical chemistry that had me turned completely upsidedown. I have said on this forum before (about the manic period, which was yrs long) that I looked back, AFTER I went from hyper to a crashed hypo, and said "Who WAS that, I don't recognize that person??". I am a strong believer in bipolar disorder basically being caused by either an outright lame thyroid or a very subtly lame one that doesn't fit the "normal" test patterns. Neurotransmitters in the brain are VERY strongly affected by the thyroid hormones or lack thereof. One thing that I seem to have retained a little of, since not being quite so hypo, is being bothered by a lot of noise and crowds. Not fear of crowds, just the hustle and bustle and noise of noisy grocery stores, entertainment places, and the like. This I consider to be a case of weakened adrenal glands that have been war torn by all of life and the lame thyroid (for so long). I have found this

information on the adrenal glands in many many readings in various places. I believe that the adrenals have improved, though I haven't proven by testing that they are either weak or have recently improved. This I know, because when they were probably in their weakest state, I couldn't bare to have light in the house, everything had to be dim for me to be calm, and when I heard a weak slightly strange noise, I would jump out of my skin, and my heart would beat for 2 to 3 hrs after just a small startle. This hasn't happened so much lately. The adrenal glands are so intimately connected with the workings of the thyroid that one can't possibly go without the other one at all. When one is weak, the other one will work itself to death until it's completely tuckered out. The endocrine system is one in which every single thing is dependent on the other one, just like dominos falling. Guess this was long enough, huh?

Re: Antidepressants

,

Wow! I asked for it and I got it. That sounds a lot like my story. I was always overly thin, too, but I can't just eat anything anymore or stay thin, My body is changing, and it is not just what I eat or aging, or emotions.

It was easy to convince me, also, that my issues were psychological because that is my career field and my crazy, alcoholic family. I have been through times I have been temporarily depressed because of external situations but I think I know the difference. Years back, I was put on an antidepressant that MADE me feel depressed and suicidal. I barely had the strength, to reach through the fog, to insist to the doctor....didn't want to scare him and end up in a psych hospital..... about how I felt. "I wake up in the morning and think 'I have got to get it together today to kill myself. I can't stand how I feel.' " I guess he thought I was kidding, he just told it was not the medicine and to increase it. I finally got across to him to change meds. Now, the articles and workshops are warning that some antidepressants can cause suicidal thoughts. I think any person, like me, can tell that but it does

require a physician to listen and not increase same meds.

Unlike you, I never thought of my thyroid, though others had asked and tested for it, and finally located the problem. I have always been a night person, too. Were you able to get totally off the antidepressants, benzodiazapines, sleep meds or what not?

I have more hope now and more time out of the "fog" to figure out what it going on. It is amazing to me how many specialists I have been to, any of whom could have addressed their organ of expertise and it's deficiency. This is a big elephant all the blind people are walking around trying to describe and build an inner picture of. If you remember that story of the three blind men describing their perception of an elephant. One says,"Its covered with rough skin and huge." Second says, "No, it has a long hose like shape, open and flexible at the end." Last says, "No, it has a medium length of rough hair like a rope that is matted together and smells bad."

Thanks so much, , for taking the time & effort to review those painful and disappointing experiences in order to recount them. Getting in touch with the anger can be more empowering than being in touch with the depression in organizing an attach on the problem.

Marilyn A.