Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 Katy, sounds like you have a queen nada like mine. Mine is also part waif - likes to be taken care of (poor little 'ol me). I'm really sorry that she lives only 30 minutes away from you - in Texas, that's just down the road a piece - lol. My nada was 3hrs. away and that was too close! You may need to practice saying " Not today, I've got other plans " or " Sorry, but hubby wants me to do....today " . They will take a mile if you even think about giving an inch! It's even better if you don't even make excuses - just say no and keep saying no. There will be plenty of guilt at first because you are going against learned behavior, but it gets easier. Nadas love to milk illness for all it's worth - the queen and her adoring subjects. This is the time to ask yourself what you want - not what you think she wants. It isn't selfish to set limits on how others use your time - once the day is gone it's never coming back, so spend it wisely! Hang in there! Ilene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 Hi Katy! Welcome to the list! It's amazing how much your situation mirrored mine when I was a kid except for the fact that I'm only 18. My mom acted exactly like that: my brother and I were always the bad kid vs. the good kid, I always sought support from teachers and my friend's mothers, etc. I hope you find some extra support on this list! Love, Ginny Quoting Katy Rees : > <html><body> > > > <tt> > <BR> > It's frightening, validating, confusing, and exciting to have begun > this<BR> > journey. & nbsp; I'm thirty, and have dealt with a mother who has driven > me crazy<BR> > for my entire life. & nbsp; I now think that she may have bpd. & nbsp; It > was last week,<BR> > as I was talking to my therapist (have gone to see her on and off for > three<BR> > years now, so she has ample family history on me), that she suggested my > mom<BR> > may be bp. & nbsp; I immediately bought a couple of books on it, and was > amazed.<BR> > So many of my experiences mirror those in the books, and just examples > I've<BR> > found online! & nbsp; Since I've joined your group, I thought I'd provide > you with<BR> > a brief history of what I've experienced. . .<BR> > <BR> > -My mom is pretty normal in her day-to-day functions. & nbsp; She has had > the same<BR> > job for several years, has been married to my dad for 31 years, > etc. & nbsp; This<BR> > is the part that makes it difficult, because she may act out, and then > for<BR> > the next month, she is just great. & nbsp; It constantly makes me question > myself,<BR> > and go through this cycle where I wonder what I did to set her > off. & nbsp; She's<BR> > not physically abusive, she's emotionally abusive and draining.<BR> > <BR> > -My dad is generally supportive of her, but I think his way to deal > with<BR> > her, is that he works 12 hour days, 7 days a week. & nbsp; Although I love > him and<BR> > he's a sweet person, I rarely felt any support from him when my mom and > I<BR> > would get into arguments (she of course, would twist the topic around > and<BR> > lie about the details). & nbsp; He blindly supports her.<BR> > <BR> > -My brother (he's 26) and I have always been the good kid/bad kid. & nbsp; > She<BR> > generally played us against one another as well. & nbsp; It wasn't until a > few<BR> > years ago, that he and I bonded and have united in our beliefs that my > mom<BR> > is the issue, not us.<BR> > <BR> > -I grew up with a mom who projected the image of the perfect family > to<BR> > everyone else, while treating my brother and me like dirt at home. & nbsp; > I often<BR> > heard & quot;I wish you were dead & quot; or & quot;I wish I were dead & quot; > while I was growing up.<BR> > The biggest shocker was when I moved out of the house at age 20 with a > note.<BR> > It was the first time that my parents' friends and relatives were able > to<BR> > see that obviously, something wasn't right with my family. & nbsp; That > shook her<BR> > foundation, and I paid for it dearly with her guilt, etc. for many > years.<BR> > Of course, her explanation is, & quot;Everything was great, and then > suddenly,<BR> > Katy went crazy and moved out & quot;. & nbsp; Yeah, right!!! & nbsp; I moved > out after 6 months<BR> > of counseling services through my university at the time. & nbsp; She's > also a<BR> > clean freak. & nbsp; Almost obsessive about it.<BR> > <BR> > -My mom is the classic victim. & nbsp; She's generally found one excuse > after<BR> > another to call people or have people call her while she complains about > us,<BR> > my dad's cancer, etc. & nbsp; She keeps a tally in her head about who out > of<BR> > friends and relatives, is concerned enough about her to call her x times > per<BR> > week, etc.<BR> > <BR> > -My dad has kidney cancer (7 years now), and my mom was just diagnosed > with<BR> > breast cancer in February. & nbsp; She has used his cancer to expect > everyone to<BR> > constantly call HER, because SHE is the one they should be concerned > about,<BR> > since she has to deal with the grief of his cancer. & nbsp; Now of course, > with her<BR> > cancer, she still expects everyone to call her constantly. & nbsp; This is > a major<BR> > issue for me, and the reason why I'm seeing my therapist now. & nbsp; I'm > trying to<BR> > figure out how to be a normal, supportive daughter, without allowing her > to<BR> > suck me in (at the beginning, she was calling me 3-7 times a > day!). & nbsp; <BR> > <BR> > -Birthdays, graduations, etc - she would find any excuse to ruin > these<BR> > special days for me.<BR> > <BR> > -I've had to be the mother of the house. & nbsp; I've had to be her > backbone. & nbsp; I<BR> > generally don't feel like I had someone to lean on as a mother. & nbsp; I > now<BR> > understand why all my teachers and my friends' mothers were people I > sought<BR> > out to hang out with.<BR> > <BR> > -She's a control freak. & nbsp; To this day, she tries to tell me what to > wear. & nbsp; If<BR> > we're attending a get-together at a relative's house, she tries to tell > me<BR> > what outfit she recommends wearing, while I pretty much tell her that > I<BR> > haven't made that decision yet, and that usually upsets her. & nbsp; Then > if I'm<BR> > wearing something she doesn't like, she gives me a weird look the > whole<BR> > time.<BR> > <BR> > -Luckily, she lives 30 minutes away, which is a nice buffer for > me.<BR> > However, she tries to find any excuse to see me. & nbsp; This summer, > she'll be off<BR> > for chemotherapy, and has decided that any day that she is feeling > well,<BR> > she'll want to hang out with my daughter (2yo) and me. & nbsp; I work PT, > and she<BR> > thinks that she can take up all my free time. & nbsp; I'll be working on > setting<BR> > boundaries for this summer.<BR> > <BR> > -I'm about 50 lbs overweight, and have been working on trying to get > this<BR> > weight off (was not overweight until I moved out at 20). & nbsp; While I > truly<BR> > believe that I need be held accountable for my own actions, and not > blame<BR> > her for this, I also know that a little voice in me likes the fact that > it<BR> > upsets her perfect little world to have me be overweight. & nbsp; Plus, if > I lose<BR> > the weight, I know she'll find something else to pick on, because she > has<BR> > done this to me my entire life. & nbsp; This is a major issue for me, and > something<BR> > I'll be working on for sure. & nbsp; <BR> > <BR> > -I'm blessed with a great husband, adorable 2 yo daughter, > wonderful<BR> > in-laws, and friends. & nbsp; Luckily, I have a good, supportive network, > and these<BR> > people are well aware of what I've dealt with all these years, > although<BR> > there hasn't been an official label on it. & nbsp; Her two siblings and > mother have<BR> > also been on the receiving end of her abuse, so they're well aware > that<BR> > something isn't quite right, although they aren't sure exactly > what. & nbsp; I've<BR> > tried over the years to get her to see a counselor, but no luck.<BR> > <BR> > Anyway, just wanted to share some of my thoughts with all of you. & nbsp; > Thank you<BR> > for being there, and making me feel like I haven't imagined this!<BR> > <BR> > Katy & nbsp; =)<BR> > <BR> > P.s. is there a digest version that I can subscribe to for this > listserv?<BR> > <BR> > <BR> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 I love lightbulb moments! Isn't it great to put a name on it? Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 I love lightbulb moments! Isn't it great to put a name on it? Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 Nadas love to milk > illness for all it's worth - the queen and her adoring subjects. As mine said..... " my time is running out " there isn't a sick bone in her body. I hate that!!!! The guilt thing makes me mad. If her time runs out and I'm not ready, well....it done run out and I was not ready. I hate the guilt manipulation thing about the worst. I don't do it to anyone....esp. my family! (family means husband and kids to me now). Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 Katy Rees wrote: << It's frightening, validating, confusing, and exciting to have begun this journey. >> Yup, BPDT (Been there, done that) and it takes awhile to find one's Self. << I'm thirty, and have dealt with a mother who has driven me crazy for my entire life. >> I'm more than twice as old as you and my nada (BP 'mother') drove me crazy for 12 years after her death. That's when I first learned about my nada's BPD. << I now think that she may have bpd. It was last week, as I was talking to my therapist (have gone to see her on and off for three years now, so she has ample family history on me), that she suggested my mom may be bp. I immediately bought a couple of books on it, and was amazed. So many of my experiences mirror those in the books, and just examples I've found online! Since I've joined your group, I thought I'd provide you with a brief history of what I've experienced. . . >> A-OK. << -My mom is pretty normal in her day-to-day functions. >> Your nada is probably 'high-functioning'. << She has had the same job for several years, >> She's 'situationally competent'. << .... has been married to my dad for 31 years, etc. This is the part that makes it difficult, because she may act out, and then for the next month, she is just great. >> High-functioning BPs can be like that. They cave when challenged or under stress. << It constantly makes me question myself, and go through this cycle where I wonder what I did to set her off. She's not physically abusive, she's emotionally abusive and draining. >> Yup, she's a BP and she has things that 'trigger' her BPD behaviors. << -My dad is generally supportive of her, but I think his way to deal with her, is that he works 12 hour days, 7 days a week. Although I love him and he's a sweet person, I rarely felt any support from him when my mom and I would get into arguments (she of course, would twist the topic around and lie about the details). He blindly supports her. >> Sounds like a typical work-a-holic dish-rag dad. << -My brother (he's 26) and I have always been the good kid/bad kid. She generally played us against one another as well. It wasn't until a few years ago, that he and I bonded and have united in our beliefs that my mom is the issue, not us. >> Yup, typical BPD stuff. Your nada used the " divide and conquer " technique. My sister and I finally resolved our differences when we were in our 40s. My nada was a BPD/NPD combo (she had a significant number of both BPD and Narcissistic PD traits) and was a witch/queen via Ann Lawson's classification system (see " Understanding the Borderline Mother " ). << -I grew up with a mom who projected the image of the perfect family to everyone else, while treating my brother and me like dirt at home. >> Yup, the 'public image' vs the 'family secrets' (ala Bradshaw). << I often heard " I wish you were dead " or " I wish I were dead " while I was growing up. The biggest shocker was when I moved out of the house at age 20 with a note. It was the first time that my parents' friends and relatives were able to see that obviously, something wasn't right with my family. That shook her foundation, and I paid for it dearly with her guilt, etc. for many years. >> Yup, nada's control their KOs with FOG (Fear, Obligation, and Guilt). << Of course, her explanation is, " Everything was great, and then suddenly, Katy went crazy and moved out " . >> Yup, BPDs like to see themselves as PERFECT. This is an example of a nada's " ITS ALL YOUR FAULT!! " (projection) routine. Projection and denial are BPDs most-often used defense mechanisms. << Yeah, right!!! I moved out after 6 months of counseling services through my university at the time. She's also a clean freak. Almost obsessive about it. >> Hmmmm, she has some OCD traits. That's not unusual for a BPD. << -My mom is the classic victim. She's generally found one excuse after another to call people or have people call her while she complains about us, my dad's cancer, etc. She keeps a tally in her head about who out of friends and relatives, is concerned enough about her to call her x times per week, etc. >> She (typically) thrives on the chaos. << -My dad has kidney cancer (7 years now), and my mom was just diagnosed with breast cancer in February. She has used his cancer to expect everyone to constantly call HER, because SHE is the one they should be concerned about, since she has to deal with the grief of his cancer. >> Yup, even though your dad has the cancer, ITS ALL ABOUT HER. Typical BPD stuff. << Now of course, with her cancer, she still expects everyone to call her constantly. This is a major issue for me, and the reason why I'm seeing my therapist now. I'm trying to figure out how to be a normal, supportive daughter, without allowing her to suck me in (at the beginning, she was calling me 3-7 times a day!). >> Time to get a caller ID. << -Birthdays, graduations, etc - she would find any excuse to ruin these special days for me. >> Yup, typical nada antics. << -I've had to be the mother of the house. >> Yup, you were 'parentified'. << I've had to be her backbone. I generally don't feel like I had someone to lean on as a mother. I now understand why all my teachers and my friends' mothers were people I sought out to hang out with. >> Its amazing how all this stuff finally starts to fall into place once a KO finds out about their parent's BPD. << -She's a control freak. To this day, she tries to tell me what to wear. If we're attending a get-together at a relative's house, she tries to tell me what outfit she recommends wearing, while I pretty much tell her that I haven't made that decision yet, and that usually upsets her. Then if I'm wearing something she doesn't like, she gives me a weird look the whole time. >> Nadas love to be IN CONTROL. << -Luckily, she lives 30 minutes away, which is a nice buffer for me. However, she tries to find any excuse to see me. This summer, she'll be off for chemotherapy, and has decided that any day that she is feeling well, she'll want to hang out with my daughter (2yo) and me. I work PT, and she thinks that she can take up all my free time. I'll be working on setting boundaries for this summer. >> Yes, excellent idea. Incidently, your nada likes the idea of having a 2 yo g'child. It gives her a 'role' to play -- the g'ma role -- and emotionally, your nada is older than the 2 yo so she can CONTROL her. When the 2 yo surpasses your nada emotionally, that's when the problems will start. For example, your nada is *emotionally* younger than you and she wants to control you like she can the 2 yo but you can't let her do that to you. My nada was an emotional 2 yo. << -I'm about 50 lbs overweight, and have been working on trying to get this weight off (was not overweight until I moved out at 20). While I truly believe that I need be held accountable for my own actions, and not blame her for this, I also know that a little voice in me likes the fact that it upsets her perfect little world to have me be overweight. Plus, if I lose the weight, I know she'll find something else to pick on, because she has done this to me my entire life. This is a major issue for me, and something I'll be working on for sure. >> Lots of the KOs on these Oasis lists have weight problems. By being under- or over-weight, its a KO's way of feeling they have CONTROL over something. KOs are good at beating themSelves up, too, so don't beat yourSelf up about your weight. << -I'm blessed with a great husband, adorable 2 yo daughter, wonderful in-laws, and friends. Luckily, I have a good, supportive network, and these people are well aware of what I've dealt with all these years, although there hasn't been an official label on it. Her two siblings and mother have also been on the receiving end of her abuse, so they're well aware that something isn't quite right, although they aren't sure exactly what. I've tried over the years to get her to see a counselor, but no luck. >> Nadas like to think of their tiny and/or fragmented Self as PERFECT and therefore she sees no reason to see a counselor. << Anyway, just wanted to share some of my thoughts with all of you. Thank you for being there, and making me feel like I haven't imagined this! >> And, I couldn't resist responding to your post as the stuff you've written about is so typical of what I've seen on these Oasis lists over the years. << P.s. is there a digest version that I can subscribe to for this listserv? >> Yes, send an otherwise empty email to: ModOasis-digest and the digest will be sent in packets of 25 posts/digest. I'm glad you found us. Cheers, Edith - One of the WTO list moderators - NonBP adult child of a witch/queen BPD/NPD nada .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 kathleen...my nada's " time has been running out " for nearly 2 decades!!! ha ha- i had to laugh when i read your post...yet another quotable quote from nada college!!! nev > Nadas love to milk > > illness for all it's worth - the queen and her adoring subjects. > > As mine said..... > > " my time is running out " > > there isn't a sick bone in her body. I hate that!!!! The guilt thing > makes me mad. If her time runs out and I'm not ready, well....it > done run out and I was not ready. > > I hate the guilt manipulation thing about the worst. > > I don't do it to anyone....esp. my family! (family means husband > and kids to me now). > > Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2002 Report Share Posted April 17, 2002 Edith, and the rest of the group, thank you so much for your replies. I've been real busy and didn't have a chance to respond sooner. However, I've really enjoyed being a part of your group so far. =) Re: My Lightbulb Moment Katy Rees wrote: << It's frightening, validating, confusing, and exciting to have begun this journey. >> Yup, BPDT (Been there, done that) and it takes awhile to find one's Self. << I'm thirty, and have dealt with a mother who has driven me crazy for my entire life. >> I'm more than twice as old as you and my nada (BP 'mother') drove me crazy for 12 years after her death. That's when I first learned about my nada's BPD. << I now think that she may have bpd. It was last week, as I was talking to my therapist (have gone to see her on and off for three years now, so she has ample family history on me), that she suggested my mom may be bp. I immediately bought a couple of books on it, and was amazed. So many of my experiences mirror those in the books, and just examples I've found online! Since I've joined your group, I thought I'd provide you with a brief history of what I've experienced. . . >> A-OK. << -My mom is pretty normal in her day-to-day functions. >> Your nada is probably 'high-functioning'. << She has had the same job for several years, >> She's 'situationally competent'. << .... has been married to my dad for 31 years, etc. This is the part that makes it difficult, because she may act out, and then for the next month, she is just great. >> High-functioning BPs can be like that. They cave when challenged or under stress. << It constantly makes me question myself, and go through this cycle where I wonder what I did to set her off. She's not physically abusive, she's emotionally abusive and draining. >> Yup, she's a BP and she has things that 'trigger' her BPD behaviors. << -My dad is generally supportive of her, but I think his way to deal with her, is that he works 12 hour days, 7 days a week. Although I love him and he's a sweet person, I rarely felt any support from him when my mom and I would get into arguments (she of course, would twist the topic around and lie about the details). He blindly supports her. >> Sounds like a typical work-a-holic dish-rag dad. << -My brother (he's 26) and I have always been the good kid/bad kid. She generally played us against one another as well. It wasn't until a few years ago, that he and I bonded and have united in our beliefs that my mom is the issue, not us. >> Yup, typical BPD stuff. Your nada used the " divide and conquer " technique. My sister and I finally resolved our differences when we were in our 40s. My nada was a BPD/NPD combo (she had a significant number of both BPD and Narcissistic PD traits) and was a witch/queen via Ann Lawson's classification system (see " Understanding the Borderline Mother " ). << -I grew up with a mom who projected the image of the perfect family to everyone else, while treating my brother and me like dirt at home. >> Yup, the 'public image' vs the 'family secrets' (ala Bradshaw). << I often heard " I wish you were dead " or " I wish I were dead " while I was growing up. The biggest shocker was when I moved out of the house at age 20 with a note. It was the first time that my parents' friends and relatives were able to see that obviously, something wasn't right with my family. That shook her foundation, and I paid for it dearly with her guilt, etc. for many years. >> Yup, nada's control their KOs with FOG (Fear, Obligation, and Guilt). << Of course, her explanation is, " Everything was great, and then suddenly, Katy went crazy and moved out " . >> Yup, BPDs like to see themselves as PERFECT. This is an example of a nada's " ITS ALL YOUR FAULT!! " (projection) routine. Projection and denial are BPDs most-often used defense mechanisms. << Yeah, right!!! I moved out after 6 months of counseling services through my university at the time. She's also a clean freak. Almost obsessive about it. >> Hmmmm, she has some OCD traits. That's not unusual for a BPD. << -My mom is the classic victim. She's generally found one excuse after another to call people or have people call her while she complains about us, my dad's cancer, etc. She keeps a tally in her head about who out of friends and relatives, is concerned enough about her to call her x times per week, etc. >> She (typically) thrives on the chaos. << -My dad has kidney cancer (7 years now), and my mom was just diagnosed with breast cancer in February. She has used his cancer to expect everyone to constantly call HER, because SHE is the one they should be concerned about, since she has to deal with the grief of his cancer. >> Yup, even though your dad has the cancer, ITS ALL ABOUT HER. Typical BPD stuff. << Now of course, with her cancer, she still expects everyone to call her constantly. This is a major issue for me, and the reason why I'm seeing my therapist now. I'm trying to figure out how to be a normal, supportive daughter, without allowing her to suck me in (at the beginning, she was calling me 3-7 times a day!). >> Time to get a caller ID. << -Birthdays, graduations, etc - she would find any excuse to ruin these special days for me. >> Yup, typical nada antics. << -I've had to be the mother of the house. >> Yup, you were 'parentified'. << I've had to be her backbone. I generally don't feel like I had someone to lean on as a mother. I now understand why all my teachers and my friends' mothers were people I sought out to hang out with. >> Its amazing how all this stuff finally starts to fall into place once a KO finds out about their parent's BPD. << -She's a control freak. To this day, she tries to tell me what to wear. If we're attending a get-together at a relative's house, she tries to tell me what outfit she recommends wearing, while I pretty much tell her that I haven't made that decision yet, and that usually upsets her. Then if I'm wearing something she doesn't like, she gives me a weird look the whole time. >> Nadas love to be IN CONTROL. << -Luckily, she lives 30 minutes away, which is a nice buffer for me. However, she tries to find any excuse to see me. This summer, she'll be off for chemotherapy, and has decided that any day that she is feeling well, she'll want to hang out with my daughter (2yo) and me. I work PT, and she thinks that she can take up all my free time. I'll be working on setting boundaries for this summer. >> Yes, excellent idea. Incidently, your nada likes the idea of having a 2 yo g'child. It gives her a 'role' to play -- the g'ma role -- and emotionally, your nada is older than the 2 yo so she can CONTROL her. When the 2 yo surpasses your nada emotionally, that's when the problems will start. For example, your nada is *emotionally* younger than you and she wants to control you like she can the 2 yo but you can't let her do that to you. My nada was an emotional 2 yo. << -I'm about 50 lbs overweight, and have been working on trying to get this weight off (was not overweight until I moved out at 20). While I truly believe that I need be held accountable for my own actions, and not blame her for this, I also know that a little voice in me likes the fact that it upsets her perfect little world to have me be overweight. Plus, if I lose the weight, I know she'll find something else to pick on, because she has done this to me my entire life. This is a major issue for me, and something I'll be working on for sure. >> Lots of the KOs on these Oasis lists have weight problems. By being under- or over-weight, its a KO's way of feeling they have CONTROL over something. KOs are good at beating themSelves up, too, so don't beat yourSelf up about your weight. << -I'm blessed with a great husband, adorable 2 yo daughter, wonderful in-laws, and friends. Luckily, I have a good, supportive network, and these people are well aware of what I've dealt with all these years, although there hasn't been an official label on it. Her two siblings and mother have also been on the receiving end of her abuse, so they're well aware that something isn't quite right, although they aren't sure exactly what. I've tried over the years to get her to see a counselor, but no luck. >> Nadas like to think of their tiny and/or fragmented Self as PERFECT and therefore she sees no reason to see a counselor. << Anyway, just wanted to share some of my thoughts with all of you. Thank you for being there, and making me feel like I haven't imagined this! >> And, I couldn't resist responding to your post as the stuff you've written about is so typical of what I've seen on these Oasis lists over the years. << P.s. is there a digest version that I can subscribe to for this listserv? >> Yes, send an otherwise empty email to: ModOasis-digest and the digest will be sent in packets of 25 posts/digest. I'm glad you found us. Cheers, Edith - One of the WTO list moderators - NonBP adult child of a witch/queen BPD/NPD nada .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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