Re: What is considered NORMAL T3 and T4 antibody scores??/drug dosage !

August 12, 2005

Marilyn,

I haven't seen your other labs, but I don't understand the logic of

giving someone 25mcg of levoxyl. That is just a drop in the bucket,

not really going to do much to help you feel better. You need at

least 100mcg...especially if your TSH is over 5. If I were you I

would start looking for another doctor...and FAST!

Most endocrinologists (even the TSH worshippers) at least like to

keep your TSH around 1.0, or AT LEAST below 1.5.

When I was first diagnosed with hashi's I was initially given 88mcg,

and right before switching to armour I was on 250mcg. Sure my normal

TSH is probably somewhere in the hundreds (being that it has been

over 40 while taking meds) but to me even a TSH of 5 is too high.

Have you been diagnosed with Hashi's??

Where are you located?

> Jan and List,

>

> I am so mad at my self. I wrote this nice long note to you all

and

> then pushed the wrong button and swoosh it was gone. I am so

MAD!!!!!!

>

> Well, I will make this alot smaller. Could any of you all let

me

> know more about those T3 and T4 antibody tests,what is considered

> normal and what they actually show. I need to bring this to my

dod

> when I go again to see her ina few weeks for another blood test.

Iw

> ill get these ttest to see what is what. My TSH was supposedly

5.043

> and borderline, figure that. Where have they been getting the new

lab

> norms now? Not many people seem to know about them, docs and all.

>

> I am guessing that I will have to have a higher dosage of Levoxyl.

Not

> sure I feel alot different than I did before on 25 mg.I am on

now. I

> really like my doc and she had said that I could try armour if I

> wanted to even if she likes the other drugs better. I hope she

will

> at least let me try a higher dosage. What dosage of Levoxyl would

any

> of you suggest might work for a TSH of 5.043 ? I am not self

> prescribing but I just would like an idea of what some of you

might

> think MIGHT work ad what has possibly worked for any of you. Of

> course I do not have my T scores yet. Just curious ???

>

> More later. Gotta run and go to bed..

> Blessings,

>

> Marilyn

August 12, 2005

,

No, I have not be diagnosed with anything other than " borderline "

hypo which I am now finding out seems to not be too borderline.

That is what alot of the docs seem to think though from what I am

hearing.

I have a wierd history though, with Ebstein Barr/hronic Fatigue and

possible Fibromyalgia. I am going to go to see a rheumatologist in

Oct. when my Medicare kicks in to see about that. Yes, now I am

hearing that alot of this is also possibly related. We will see.

I am very curious I never did check out all my thyroid " stats " from

years past. I just heard that they were " fine " .. Now I am going

to check on them. My doctor who I have not had the whole time as we

just moved to this area a few years ago said that it had gone up

some and in lite of muy crazy symptoms she thought I might need

some meds or at least try some. I have had my symptoms for many

years and had had thyrold test esp when my weight was to low and I

couldn't gain and they said my throid was fine. Now I am gaining

more than I have in years not that I am very big, just 130 at the

most. I also have lots of aches and pains, and no energy, etc. I

had thought at least part of the problems with gaining was due also

partly because I had gotten off my premarin due to High b/p. All

these year since I have had all my problems they said my thyroid was

fine , whatever that is. I didn't even know what the scores were.

BTW, I am in Montgomery, Texas north of Houston, about 10 miles from

Conroe.

That is enough of my sotry for now. It is late. Just curious about

the meds and also the T3 and T4 antibody scores.

Thanks and talk to you later on again.

Marilyn

> > Jan and List,

> >

> > I am so mad at my self. I wrote this nice long note to you all

> and

> > then pushed the wrong button and swoosh it was gone. I am so

> MAD!!!!!!

> >

> > Well, I will make this alot smaller. Could any of you all let

> me

> > know more about those T3 and T4 antibody tests,what is

considered

> > normal and what they actually show. I need to bring this to my

> dod

> > when I go again to see her ina few weeks for another blood

test.

> Iw

> > ill get these ttest to see what is what. My TSH was supposedly

> 5.043

> > and borderline, figure that. Where have they been getting the

new

> lab

> > norms now? Not many people seem to know about them, docs and

all.

> >

> > I am guessing that I will have to have a higher dosage of

Levoxyl.

> Not

> > sure I feel alot different than I did before on 25 mg.I am on

> now. I

> > really like my doc and she had said that I could try armour if

I

> > wanted to even if she likes the other drugs better. I hope she

> will

> > at least let me try a higher dosage. What dosage of Levoxyl

would

> any

> > of you suggest might work for a TSH of 5.043 ? I am not self

> > prescribing but I just would like an idea of what some of you

> might

> > think MIGHT work ad what has possibly worked for any of you.

Of

> > course I do not have my T scores yet. Just curious ???

> >

> > More later. Gotta run and go to bed..

> > Blessings,

> >

> > Marilyn

August 12, 2005

If you would like to post your lab results together with the reference ranges and the exact name of each test, some of us may be able to comment on them.

I do not know of any "T3 and T4 antibody tests." Free T3 and Free T4 measure thyroid hormone in your blood. Anti-thyroid peroxidase antibodies and thyroglobulin antibodies are two common antibodies tests. You will find the ranges on the lab report. Each lab has its own ranges.

Thyroid 101: always get copies of your lab reports. Keep them in a folder and learn to read them.

25 mcg of Levoxyl is a starting dose for someone over 65 or with cardiac issues. In any case, the next dose to try would be 50 mcg, unless you are very sensitive to dose increases. In any case, increases should be made in increments of 12.5 to 25 mcg, with testing between increases every 6-10 weeks.

A typical target dose might be 1.6 or 1.7 mcg per kg of body weight. A kg is 2.2 lbs. If you weigh 140 lbs, your target dose would be 140 lbs/2.2 lbs per kg X 1.6 = ~ 100 mcg. You may need much or less, but that gives you a general idea.

The dose you need with a TSH of 5 is about the same as what you would need with a TSH of 100. Partial replacement is a myth and a half. Even a small amount of thyroid meds tend to shut down the system. That is why too small a dose can make you feel worse than no thyroid meds at all.

And, yes. Most, if not all, fibro and some arthritis is thyroid-related.

Marilyn wrote:

,No, I have not be diagnosed with anything other than " borderline" hypo which I am now finding out seems to not be too borderline. That is what alot of the docs seem to think though from what I am hearing.I have a wierd history though, with Ebstein Barr/hronic Fatigue and possible Fibromyalgia. I am going to go to see a rheumatologist in Oct. when my Medicare kicks in to see about that. Yes, now I am hearing that alot of this is also possibly related. We will see.I am very curious I never did check out all my thyroid "stats" from years past. I just heard that they were "fine".. Now I am going to check on them. My doctor who I have not had the whole time as we just moved to this area a few years ago said that it had gone up some and in lite of muy

crazy symptoms she thought I might need some meds or at least try some. I have had my symptoms for many years and had had thyrold test esp when my weight was to low and I couldn't gain and they said my throid was fine. Now I am gaining more than I have in years not that I am very big, just 130 at the most. I also have lots of aches and pains, and no energy, etc. I had thought at least part of the problems with gaining was due also partly because I had gotten off my premarin due to High b/p. All these year since I have had all my problems they said my thyroid was fine , whatever that is. I didn't even know what the scores were.BTW, I am in Montgomery, Texas north of Houston, about 10 miles from Conroe.That is enough of my sotry for now. It is late. Just curious about the meds and also the T3 and T4 antibody scores.Thanks and talk to you later on

again.Marilyn> > Jan and List,> > > > I am so mad at my self. I wrote this nice long note to you all > and > > then pushed the wrong button and swoosh it was gone. I am so > MAD!!!!!!> > > > Well, I will make this alot smaller. Could any of you all let > me > > know more about those T3 and T4 antibody tests,what is considered > > normal and what they actually show. I need to bring this to my > dod > > when I go again to see her ina few weeks for another blood test. > Iw > > ill get these ttest to see what is what. My TSH was supposedly > 5.043 > > and borderline,

figure that. Where have they been getting the new > lab > > norms now? Not many people seem to know about them, docs and all.> > > > I am guessing that I will have to have a higher dosage of Levoxyl. > Not > > sure I feel alot different than I did before on 25 mg.I am on > now. I > > really like my doc and she had said that I could try armour if I > > wanted to even if she likes the other drugs better. I hope she > will > > at least let me try a higher dosage. What dosage of Levoxyl would > any > > of you suggest might work for a TSH of 5.043 ? I am not self > > prescribing but I just would like an idea of what some of you > might > > think MIGHT work ad what has possibly worked for any of you. Of > > course I do not have my T scores yet. Just curious

???> > > > More later. Gotta run and go to bed..> > Blessings,> > > > Marilyn

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

August 12, 2005

Marilyn - Jan is so great at summarizing the basics for us. She is a

wealth of info. I think she and most of us would agree that the

predominant nature of most docs out there is undereducation and

undermedication. So we keep having symptoms of pain, sleep problems,

exhaustion, achiness, and a host of others, all related to

thyroid/hormone issues. I know Jan and others will know more about

this, but the National Assoc. for the Endo's in the US recently (3

years ago?) decided that folks really did have problems, or were

potentially developing problems, when their TSH values were at, I

think they said, 3.0 or even 2.50, so they recommended that the

ranges be changed. This would get help to more people sooner. I

don't know why this hasn't effected more doctor's recommendations

and the labs databases, but it hasn't. Does anyone know more detail

on this? I know my PCP told me last year that she already knew about

the change. So she was aware that I might need my TSH much lower to

feel better. She just didn't know enough about the whole picture,

wasn't real happy about Armour, which she had no experience with,

and I had to move on to Dr. .

Marilyn, I have to tell ya, if you're not going to a doc who really

knows the biochemical interrelationships of all of your hormones,

diet and nutrients, and the orchestration that needs to go on to

help you feel better overall, you are wasting your time, in my

opinion. I hate to see you going to specialists about things that

many of us have learned are all related to hormone, nutrient and

diet issues. I'm not very good at recalling articles or websites for

you to go to. Perhaps Jan and others can direct you to links. I am,

at this point, very sold on Dr. as having the background

and experience in treating the whole enchilada of problems. There

are a few other docs that seem to be doing a fairly good job for

folks, but I am only going to recommend Dr. . That's just

me. You'll get other ideas from the board. And there are the issues

of affoardability and insurance to deal with. But many of us on this

board find it critical to drive or fly to see Dr. R. Some of us have

been with him longer than others and have more history. I've been

through what I'll call " phase 1 " or my first 6 months. I'm happy

with what's going on with my improvements. Jan has a lot of info on

the other docs folks have reported on. Many will prescribe Armour

but undertreat. And they don't know how to handle the rest of your

issues, and body/biochemical systems that must be treated at the

same time so that you have support. Others are members of fancy but

agressive specialty groups that will sell you everything they can.

If your doc is not extremely experienced in dealing with balancing

all the hormone issues, and thinks a TSH of 5.0 is " borderline " I'm

not going to be in favor of you seeing her/him and having to search

for other specialists to treat other problems.

I'm very prejudiced at this point, so I hope others will chime in

and comment with their opinions and experiences.

--Sara

(I owe you my hypo history which I will send to you privately soon,

since the board would be bored to see that again.)

> > > Jan and List,

> > >

> > > I am so mad at my self. I wrote this nice long note to you

all

> > and

> > > then pushed the wrong button and swoosh it was gone. I am so

> > MAD!!!!!!

> > >

> > > Well, I will make this alot smaller. Could any of you all

let

> > me

> > > know more about those T3 and T4 antibody tests,what is

> considered

> > > normal and what they actually show. I need to bring this to

my

> > dod

> > > when I go again to see her ina few weeks for another blood

> test.

> > Iw

> > > ill get these ttest to see what is what. My TSH was

supposedly

> > 5.043

> > > and borderline, figure that. Where have they been getting the

> new

> > lab

> > > norms now? Not many people seem to know about them, docs and

> all.

> > >

> > > I am guessing that I will have to have a higher dosage of

> Levoxyl.

> > Not

> > > sure I feel alot different than I did before on 25 mg.I am on

> > now. I

> > > really like my doc and she had said that I could try armour

if

> I

> > > wanted to even if she likes the other drugs better. I hope

she

> > will

> > > at least let me try a higher dosage. What dosage of Levoxyl

> would

> > any

> > > of you suggest might work for a TSH of 5.043 ? I am not self

> > > prescribing but I just would like an idea of what some of you

> > might

> > > think MIGHT work ad what has possibly worked for any of you.

> Of

> > > course I do not have my T scores yet. Just curious ???

> > >

> > > More later. Gotta run and go to bed..

> > > Blessings,

> > >

> > > Marilyn

>

> ---------------------------------

> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

August 12, 2005

Sara-

Go ahead and repost your hypo history. We get new folks all the time. Anyone who is not interested in reading it can play Spider Solitaire or shop Ebay. . . .

Of all of the docs on our list, is the only one whom I can recommend and know that he is going to help, that he is going to pull it all together. My one reservation about him had been that he was generally only willing to Rx Armour. But the last time I saw him, he said he now has folks on all kinds of combinations of natural, synthetic and compounded thyroid meds. Armour is still his first choice. . . .

Sara wrote:

Marilyn - Jan is so great at summarizing the basics for us. She is a wealth of info. I think she and most of us would agree that the predominant nature of most docs out there is undereducation and undermedication. So we keep having symptoms of pain, sleep problems, exhaustion, achiness, and a host of others, all related to thyroid/hormone issues. I know Jan and others will know more about this, but the National Assoc. for the Endo's in the US recently (3 years ago?) decided that folks really did have problems, or were potentially developing problems, when their TSH values were at, I think they said, 3.0 or even 2.50, so they recommended that the ranges be changed. This would get help to more people sooner. I don't know why this hasn't effected more doctor's recommendations and the labs databases, but it hasn't. Does

anyone know more detail on this? I know my PCP told me last year that she already knew about the change. So she was aware that I might need my TSH much lower to feel better. She just didn't know enough about the whole picture, wasn't real happy about Armour, which she had no experience with, and I had to move on to Dr. .Marilyn, I have to tell ya, if you're not going to a doc who really knows the biochemical interrelationships of all of your hormones, diet and nutrients, and the orchestration that needs to go on to help you feel better overall, you are wasting your time, in my opinion. I hate to see you going to specialists about things that many of us have learned are all related to hormone, nutrient and diet issues. I'm not very good at recalling articles or websites for you to go to. Perhaps Jan and others can direct you to links. I am, at this point, very sold on Dr. as having the background and

experience in treating the whole enchilada of problems. There are a few other docs that seem to be doing a fairly good job for folks, but I am only going to recommend Dr. . That's just me. You'll get other ideas from the board. And there are the issues of affoardability and insurance to deal with. But many of us on this board find it critical to drive or fly to see Dr. R. Some of us have been with him longer than others and have more history. I've been through what I'll call "phase 1" or my first 6 months. I'm happy with what's going on with my improvements. Jan has a lot of info on the other docs folks have reported on. Many will prescribe Armour but undertreat. And they don't know how to handle the rest of your issues, and body/biochemical systems that must be treated at the same time so that you have support. Others are members of fancy but agressive specialty groups that will sell you everything they can.If your

doc is not extremely experienced in dealing with balancing all the hormone issues, and thinks a TSH of 5.0 is "borderline" I'm not going to be in favor of you seeing her/him and having to search for other specialists to treat other problems.I'm very prejudiced at this point, so I hope others will chime in and comment with their opinions and experiences.--Sara(I owe you my hypo history which I will send to you privately soon, since the board would be bored to see that again.)> > > Jan and List,> > > > > > I am so mad at my self. I wrote this nice long note to you all > > and > > > then pushed the wrong button

and swoosh it was gone. I am so > > MAD!!!!!!> > > > > > Well, I will make this alot smaller. Could any of you all let > > me > > > know more about those T3 and T4 antibody tests,what is > considered > > > normal and what they actually show. I need to bring this to my > > dod > > > when I go again to see her ina few weeks for another blood > test. > > Iw > > > ill get these ttest to see what is what. My TSH was supposedly > > 5.043 > > > and borderline, figure that. Where have they been getting the > new > > lab > > > norms now? Not many people seem to know about them, docs and > all.> > > > > > I am guessing that I will have to have a higher dosage of > Levoxyl. > > Not

> > > sure I feel alot different than I did before on 25 mg.I am on > > now. I > > > really like my doc and she had said that I could try armour if > I > > > wanted to even if she likes the other drugs better. I hope she > > will > > > at least let me try a higher dosage. What dosage of Levoxyl > would > > any > > > of you suggest might work for a TSH of 5.043 ? I am not self > > > prescribing but I just would like an idea of what some of you > > might > > > think MIGHT work ad what has possibly worked for any of you. > Of > > > course I do not have my T scores yet. Just curious ???> > > > > > More later. Gotta run and go to bed..> > > Blessings,> > > > > > Marilyn

Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

August 12, 2005

Jan, where did you learn about the typical target dose?

Carole

Jan wrote:

If you would like to

post your lab results together with the reference ranges and the exact

name of each test, some of us may be able to comment on them.

I do not know of any

"T3 and T4 antibody tests." Free T3 and Free T4 measure thyroid hormone

in your blood. Anti-thyroid peroxidase antibodies and thyroglobulin

antibodies are two common antibodies tests. You will find the ranges on

the lab report. Each lab has its own ranges.

Thyroid 101: always get

copies of your lab reports. Keep them in a folder and learn to read

them.

25 mcg of Levoxyl is a

starting dose for someone over 65 or with cardiac issues. In any case,

the next dose to try would be 50 mcg, unless you are very sensitive to

dose increases. In any case, increases should be made in increments of

12.5 to 25 mcg, with testing between increases every 6-10 weeks.

A typical target dose

might be 1.6 or 1.7 mcg per kg of body weight. A kg is 2.2 lbs. If you

weigh 140 lbs, your target dose would be 140 lbs/2.2 lbs per kg X 1.6 =

~ 100 mcg. You may need much or less, but that gives you a general idea.

The dose you need with

a TSH of 5 is about the same as what you would need with a TSH of 100.

Partial replacement is a myth and a half. Even a small amount of

thyroid meds tend to shut down the system. That is why too small a dose

can make you feel worse than no thyroid meds at all.

And, yes. Most, if not

all, fibro and some arthritis is thyroid-related.

Marilyn

wrote:

,

No, I have not be diagnosed with anything other than " borderline"

hypo which I am now finding out seems to not be too borderline.

That is what alot of the docs seem to think though from what I am

hearing.

I have a wierd history though, with Ebstein Barr/hronic Fatigue and

possible Fibromyalgia. I am going to go to see a rheumatologist in

Oct. when my Medicare kicks in to see about that. Yes, now I am

hearing that alot of this is also possibly related. We will see.

I am very curious I never did check out all my thyroid "stats" from

years past. I just heard that they were "fine".. Now I am going