Re: verbal abuse (was boundaries ........ and fathers

[Guest guest]

Cyndie McCoy wrote:

> I work w/someone who often comes out w/little

> condesending quips - or sarcastic comments which are

> said as jokes.

I have met so many people like this, including some of my own family

members. I would love to develop a collection of good generic comebacks

that cut these people right off, call them on their stuff, and not let

their meanness get into me. Or maybe silence is a good response? I'm not

good at this yet, but at least I see it right as it happens. In the

past, it would sometimes take me days to finally realize I had been

insulted.

> , " The Verbally Abusive Relationship "

> was quite insightful into verbal abuse and the misuse

> of language... Verbal abuse is not all about calling

> someone a name, it's much more than that. It's crazy

> making and creates serious self-doubts.

Yes, it is. I am going to have to read that book. I bought it about 3

years ago, along with Toxic Parents (ohmygosh, this book described my

parents pefectly) and Emotional Blackmail (definitely saw my mom and my

ex husband in there). I read the last two, but never got around to The

Verbally Abusive Relationship.

These kinds of books always give me great insight. It's getting into the

habit of practicing the new ways of intereacting with people that is so

difficult. Knowledge is great, but it has to be operationalized for

anything to change. It's hard to keep all of this stuff conscious and

keep the " tools " ever handy, just in case somebody pulls something. Life

is busy, and I let down my guard. Plus I never see it coming. You would

think, after all of my experience, that I would always be looking for

it, but I'm not. It's not predictable. It's hard to think on your feet

and apply the techniques to what's happening in the present moment,

especially if you are reacting emotionally.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

--- jordhka@... wrote:

Knowledge is great, but it has to be

> operationalized for

> anything to change. It's hard to keep all of this

> stuff conscious and

> keep the " tools " ever handy, just in case somebody

> pulls something. Life

> is busy, and I let down my guard. Plus I never see

> it coming. You would

> think, after all of my experience, that I would

> always be looking for

> it, but I'm not. It's not predictable. It's hard to

> think on your feet

> and apply the techniques to what's happening in the

> present moment,

> especially if you are reacting emotionally.

Yes, it is. Mostly we are blindsided when these little

quipsters come out with it. They can be on their best

behavior for some time before the next zinger comes

out. Keeping on your toes emotionally I think is the

relative key here... Fer instance...

About 2/3 weeks ago I was discussing something w/my

coworker. She got personal (about her own life.) I

engaged in the conversation with what I was willing

and felt was safe to say and she came back w/a dig.

Now, I wasn't prepared for the dig. No one else would

probably realize that what she said was a dig - but I

did. I felt that familiar knot of pain in my stomach

and one of my emotional buttons were pushed (the one

that says, *loser!*) because what she said, intimated

I was a loser. (She had mentioned that I live in an

*apartment*, accentuated the word. I don't live in an

apartment persey, I live in a beautiful condominium.

She lives in her *own* home though. Even so, mine is

nicer!) However, she made a point of letting me know

how little I actually *have.* (Well, I didn't engage

in it with her. Didn't let her know her house was a

virtual dump compared to my *apartment.* Believe me, I

could have. She's got 4 dogs and has dog hair and dog

smell all through her *small* home and dog crap all

over the outside! Yuk!) I continued on the track of

the conversation (avoided her little diversion,) and

just gave her the look and body language that said

" Oh, really? interesting... " I terminated the

conversation, and have as little to do with her as

possible. She's not only my co-worker, she's my

supervisor and ex-freind. I walked away without owning

what she was trying to inflict on me. I walked away a

winner...

I kept my power. I didn't engage and I didn't let her

opinion of me (that I was a loser) make me feel

small... But I'm not good for playing one up games

either. That's something that's not in me. I'm not one

for quick comebacks... sometimes you don't have to be.

Sometimes you can have a little bit of class and

integrity about yourself where that isn't necessary.

Comebacks aren't the only tool to use.

Now this friend? (choke!) I can't believe I was ever

so naive to think of this woman as a friend. All

through our relationship she was controlling and

one-upping me... I was at a place when we first

started our relationship that I had no belief in self

and sought people who I *thought* had more than me...

Hah!

So yes, I've learned a lot too. And yes, I'm a little

gunshy of stepping up to the plate of friendship. But

today I trust I can see the red flags before getting

involved in another toxic relationship.

Cyndie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

We bought our " first house " this summer. So for years, I've been

listening to putdowns about home ownership. Internally, on a

true basis, it means we didn't have to move with the 6 kids. In a

town where there aren't decent places to rent that would fit my

family.

I've loved all of the places we've rented, and in my heart, these

places were " HOME " and " MINE " . In one sense it was easier,

because someone else came to fix the plumbing and buy the

new window.

I do not understand the building up or putting down of someone

because of " owning " vs. " renting " .

In those days, when we would go to parties, barbeques

whatever, the conversation was usually intensely about Home

Improvement stuff. I usually felt left out. This was kind of

universal even among the religious culty types.

When we finally closed on this house, the overriding true

emotion was RELIEF. For my kids too. Nobody wanted to move,

we were attached to this house that we had been renting for 4

years. I mostly feel gratitude and relief.

Nada wouldn't let it go at that, she began to dig about how I was

suddenly " fixing it up " now that I was a " homeowner " . I wasn't

fixing it up anymore than I had been.

I guess she was mad bec. she and my father let two houses go

without trying to save them during my childhood. It is scary how

a life of chaos can just cancel out all the basic sensible benefits

that people can hang on to in spite of hard times. The chaos

rules and gets fed and nurtured until the house is gone and the

kids are in rags. I often wonder WHY the 4 grownups in the

picture, didn't pool resources and get jobs in the two boom

economies when those houses were around. I went back to one

of them many years ago and it was still owned by the people

who bought it from us when my father had a breakdown. Looked

great and had increased in value tremendously.

There we were in the US, and the only solution nada would go

for would total waifdom at the hands of her family in the

Philippines. Scarlett O'Hara she was not.

You handled that situation well Cyndie. That is great.

Over the holidays we were lined up at the PO and there is a lady

who was taking my packages and she noticed my address label

and said, " My we are coming up in the world, aren't we? " She

was around in the days when I started, and has seen my volume

grow. It hurt for a second, but I looked at her and said, " Yes, isn't

that great? " She didn't say anything but I guess she is generally

grumpy anyway. A year ago, I would have made the decision to

not go to her window at the PO. Small step......

Kathleen

> Yes, it is. Mostly we are blindsided when these little

> quipsters come out with it. They can be on their best

> behavior for some time before the next zinger comes

> out. Keeping on your toes emotionally I think is the

> relative key here... Fer instance...

>

> About 2/3 weeks ago I was discussing something w/my

> coworker. She got personal (about her own life.) I

> engaged in the conversation with what I was willing

> and felt was safe to say and she came back w/a dig.

> Now, I wasn't prepared for the dig. No one else would

> probably realize that what she said was a dig - but I

> did. I felt that familiar knot of pain in my stomach

> and one of my emotional buttons were pushed (the one

> that says, *loser!*) because what she said, intimated

> I was a loser. (She had mentioned that I live in an

> *apartment*, accentuated the word. I don't live in an

> apartment persey, I live in a beautiful condominium.

> She lives in her *own* home though. Even so, mine is

> nicer!) However, she made a point of letting me know

> how little I actually *have.* (Well, I didn't engage

> in it with her. Didn't let her know her house was a

> virtual dump compared to my *apartment.* Believe me, I

> could have. She's got 4 dogs and has dog hair and dog

> smell all through her *small* home and dog crap all

> over the outside! Yuk!) I continued on the track of

> the conversation (avoided her little diversion,) and

> just gave her the look and body language that said

> " Oh, really? interesting... " I terminated the

> conversation, and have as little to do with her as

> possible. She's not only my co-worker, she's my

> supervisor and ex-freind. I walked away without owning

> what she was trying to inflict on me. I walked away a

> winner...

>

> I kept my power. I didn't engage and I didn't let her

> opinion of me (that I was a loser) make me feel

> small... But I'm not good for playing one up games

> either. That's something that's not in me. I'm not one

> for quick comebacks... sometimes you don't have to be.

> Sometimes you can have a little bit of class and

> integrity about yourself where that isn't necessary.

> Comebacks aren't the only tool to use.

>

> Now this friend? (choke!) I can't believe I was ever

> so naive to think of this woman as a friend. All

> through our relationship she was controlling and

> one-upping me... I was at a place when we first

> started our relationship that I had no belief in self

> and sought people who I *thought* had more than me...

> Hah!

>

> So yes, I've learned a lot too. And yes, I'm a little

> gunshy of stepping up to the plate of friendship. But

> today I trust I can see the red flags before getting

> involved in another toxic relationship.

>

> Cyndie

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

--- thanksforthisday

wrote:

> Over the holidays we were lined up at the PO and

> there is a lady

> who was taking my packages and she noticed my

> address label

> and said, " My we are coming up in the world, aren't

> we? " She

> was around in the days when I started, and has seen

> my volume

> grow. It hurt for a second, but I looked at her and

> said, " Yes, isn't

> that great? " She didn't say anything but I guess she

> is generally

> grumpy anyway. A year ago, I would have made the

> decision to

> not go to her window at the PO. Small step......

I've never realized till now, how huge those small

steps actually were (and still are...)

I'm thinking it would be nice to write a list of nasty

things people say and write down a list of come backs.

Something good to keep in mind at all times might be,

" Yes, well life's a journey not a destination. "

Have you ever seen someone smile so much while dissing

you sooo badly? You know that undertone belies the

smile but the smile throws you off... you're first

instinct is to trust what your eyes tell you... seeing

is believing right? (wrong.) well that's my

coworker... She's good at her game if you don't know

what you're dealing with... Sometimes knowing is hard.

But it's frustrating when you see it fools so many

people and you see other people hurting and spinning

around from it.

Right now I'm reading Beyond Codependency which is

helpful. I can see how much I've grown and how much I

have yet to grow... In it, it tells of one womans

story and a hard lesson she learned. She learned that

having compassion doesn't have to mean acting on it...

maybe I don't need to act on what the spvr is doing to

the kid, just validate and set an example... and keep

my compassion to myself...?

Cyndie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Cyndie McCoy wrote:

> I kept my power. I didn't engage and I didn't let her

> opinion of me (that I was a loser) make me feel

> small... But I'm not good for playing one up games

> either. That's something that's not in me. I'm not one

> for quick comebacks... sometimes you don't have to be.

> Sometimes you can have a little bit of class and

> integrity about yourself where that isn't necessary.

> Comebacks aren't the only tool to use.

I agree, Cyndie. I'm so glad you were able to hold onto yourself. I have

work to do in this area. It is just so difficult to let those little

insults go, but I would like to channel my energy into more positive

pursuits.

> So yes, I've learned a lot too. And yes, I'm a little

> gunshy of stepping up to the plate of friendship. But

> today I trust I can see the red flags before getting

> involved in another toxic relationship.

That is where I am hoping to get to. I know I'm not there yet, because I

can see it happening in my grad program at school. My vision is much

clearer, but my actions have a ways to go yet. One thing I'm thinking of

doing, the next time a fellow student expresses distress over an

assignment, is to not offer suggestions, but merely validate the

frustration, (i.e. Gee, that does sound frustrating), and then ask,

" What are you thinking of doing to figure it out? " That way I am not the

rescuer, I am simply being supportive and a good listener. And, it's not

uncommon for students to brainstorm and share ideas, so I need to allow

myself some room to do this with people. It's a balancing act for me for

sure!

Kathy

[Guest guest]

--- jordhka@... wrote:

> My vision is much

> clearer, but my actions have a ways to go yet. One

> thing I'm thinking of

> doing, the next time a fellow student expresses

> distress over an

> assignment, is to not offer suggestions, but merely

> validate the

> frustration, (i.e. Gee, that does sound

> frustrating), and then ask,

> " What are you thinking of doing to figure it out? "

> That way I am not the

> rescuer, I am simply being supportive and a good

> listener.

Yeah, it's like learning to speak a new language - and

it is... for me. I'm so conditioned to responding to

situations in a typical manner - reactionary I might

think. Not that the reactions are out of line or

anything like that, just codependent conditioned

responses from places deep within... It takes a lot of

practice to master a new language. It also takes a lot

of practice not to recall history with present

interactions... I'll be starting therapy in a few

weeks, one of my goals is to have her help me put into

practice what I know in my head...

I have to tell you my experience yesterday. I went

into work and I felt this huge relief from my little

revelation the night before. That being that I didn't

have to act on compassion, I could feel it without

doing anything with at all. I felt so light! A

coworker and I chatted lightly for a bit and she said

to me, " You look happy. Did you meet a man? " That

tickled me pink... No, there's no man... just *me*

(emerging.) Gosh, it feels good.

Cyndie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Cyndie McCoy wrote:

> I have to tell you my experience yesterday. I went

> into work and I felt this huge relief from my little

> revelation the night before. That being that I didn't

> have to act on compassion, I could feel it without

> doing anything with at all. I felt so light! A

> coworker and I chatted lightly for a bit and she said

> to me, " You look happy. Did you meet a man? " That

> tickled me pink... No, there's no man... just *me*

> (emerging.) Gosh, it feels good.

How insightful, Cyndie. We can feel compassion without taking on

responsibility for someone else. Also, " Just *me* emerging... " That

sounds like a line out of a poem!

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Fight or Flight or Freeze

My reaction of choice is Freeze, then Flight, then Fight.

Cyndy

--- Cyndie McCoy wrote:

>

> --- jordhka@... wrote:

> > My vision is much

> > clearer, but my actions have a ways to go yet. One

> > thing I'm thinking of

> > doing, the next time a fellow student expresses

> > distress over an

> > assignment, is to not offer suggestions, but merely

> > validate the

> > frustration, (i.e. Gee, that does sound

> > frustrating), and then ask,

> > " What are you thinking of doing to figure it out? "

> > That way I am not the

> > rescuer, I am simply being supportive and a good

> > listener.

>

> Yeah, it's like learning to speak a new language - and

> it is... for me. I'm so conditioned to responding to

> situations in a typical manner - reactionary I might

> think. Not that the reactions are out of line or

> anything like that, just codependent conditioned

> responses from places deep within... It takes a lot of

> practice to master a new language. It also takes a lot

> of practice not to recall history with present

> interactions... I'll be starting therapy in a few

> weeks, one of my goals is to have her help me put into

> practice what I know in my head...

>

> I have to tell you my experience yesterday. I went

> into work and I felt this huge relief from my little

> revelation the night before. That being that I didn't

> have to act on compassion, I could feel it without

> doing anything with at all. I felt so light! A

> coworker and I chatted lightly for a bit and she said

> to me, " You look happy. Did you meet a man? " That

> tickled me pink... No, there's no man... just *me*

> (emerging.) Gosh, it feels good.

>

> Cyndie

>

> __________________________________________________

>