Re: Disclosures & Confrontations!

[Guest guest]

Dee wrote:

<<

I have not read the book " Understanding the Borderline Mother " but did

study the subject intensely while I was at Uni, as I had been diagnosed

with BPD myself, so I have been reading almost anything that I could get

my hands on about 'BPD' ever since!

>>

Hi Dee,

I'm Edith, one of the WelcomeToOz list moderators.

As is stated in the WTO list Guidelines (see Section 12, below), " If in

our judgement we feel it's inappropriate for you to be here we reserve

the right to remove you or ask you to leave. " In an attempt to preserve

the purpose of this list, I have put you on moderation and request that

you not post here in the future.

One of the two 'textbooks' on this list for the NonBP adult children of

BPs is Ann Lawson's book, " Understanding The Borderline

Mother " . We KOs have all walked in the same ill-fitting pair of shoes

and are now gathered together to validate and support each other on the

healing path.

We do agree that every child deserves to have a loving parent and we

wish you the very best success on your healing journey -- as we also

would our BPD parent if they would only have admitted that there might

be something wrong with them and sought help. If they had, none of us

would need to be here.

Thank you for understanding.

Edith

- Moderator / WTO lists

<<

Section 12. BPS on the WTO LISTS

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If this list were made up of people at the stage when they are ready

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Remember, these people love the BP in their life. Think of it as a

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If you are looking for lists just for BPs, there are several. Please

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Coauthor, Stop Walking on Eggshells

Love and Loathing, Hope for Parents

www.BPDCentral.com

Addendum:

Please note our guidelines have developed over the years by the group as

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Shirley or

Edith Cracchiolo

Thank you!

>>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Edith.

--- Edith wrote:

> Dee wrote:

>

> <<

> I have not read the book " Understanding the Borderline Mother "

> but did

> study the subject intensely while I was at Uni, as I had been

> diagnosed

> with BPD myself, so I have been reading almost anything that I

> could get

> my hands on about 'BPD' ever since!

> >>

>

> Hi Dee,

>

> I'm Edith, one of the WelcomeToOz list moderators.

>

> As is stated in the WTO list Guidelines (see Section 12,

> below), " If in

> our judgement we feel it's inappropriate for you to be here we

> reserve

> the right to remove you or ask you to leave. " In an attempt to

> preserve

> the purpose of this list, I have put you on moderation and

> request that

> you not post here in the future.

>

> One of the two 'textbooks' on this list for the NonBP adult

> children of

> BPs is Ann Lawson's book, " Understanding The

> Borderline

> Mother " . We KOs have all walked in the same ill-fitting pair

> of shoes

> and are now gathered together to validate and support each

> other on the

> healing path.

>

> We do agree that every child deserves to have a loving parent

> and we

> wish you the very best success on your healing journey -- as

> we also

> would our BPD parent if they would only have admitted that

> there might

> be something wrong with them and sought help. If they had,

> none of us

> would need to be here.

>

> Thank you for understanding.

>

> Edith

> - Moderator / WTO lists

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yes, thanks Edith! And Dee thanks for going ahead and speaking up - I did

wonder there for a minute, if someone had " stolen " your name in order to get

into the group. I have to pat myself on the back for now being able to

recognize posts like this one and hit the delete button. My boundaries and

discernment have come a long way!!

Ilene

[Guest guest]

> I don't believe that the Parent/s actually

> see One Child as 'All Good' & The Other as

> 'All Bad' As I have recently heard about that

> been written in a book called, " Understanding

> The Borderline Mother " ...

I've often wondered what kind of hidden emotional toll

my brother is paying for having replaced me as the

good child. On the one hand it must feel good that my

father is " proud " of him, but how does it affect him

that I've been scapegoated, and now he's the favorite?

Joy

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I responded to one thing from that post, but on the

whole it made me feel very uncomfortable. The tone

was telling us all " how it is " and what we should do.

I'm glad others have their discernment sharpened. And

I'm glad this space is being kept safe.

Joy

--- ilene@... wrote:

>

>

> Yes, thanks Edith! And Dee thanks for going ahead

> and speaking up - I did

> wonder there for a minute, if someone had " stolen "

> your name in order to get

> into the group. I have to pat myself on the back

> for now being able to

> recognize posts like this one and hit the delete

> button. My boundaries and

> discernment have come a long way!!

>

> Ilene

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- Joy wrote:

> I've often wondered what kind of hidden emotional

> toll

> my brother is paying for having replaced me as the

> good child. On the one hand it must feel good that

> my

> father is " proud " of him, but how does it affect him

> that I've been scapegoated, and now he's the

> favorite?

I don't know how my brother & his wife feel today. But

the last interaction I had with them and ones prior to

that were that they always felt justified and better

than me. Nada spent years prior to the separation

doing her conquer and divide routine and it was

successful. Even when they told her they didn't want

to get involved and take sides and listen to what she

had to say, there was a seed planted. Then they also

have their own beliefs about what family should be

which helps them to justify and rationalize it.

Cyndie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- Joy wrote:

> I responded to one thing from that post, but on the

> whole it made me feel very uncomfortable. The tone

> was telling us all " how it is " and what we should

> do.

> I'm glad others have their discernment sharpened.

> And

> I'm glad this space is being kept safe.

Trust your feelings... you're right on target.

*Shoulda's* are a big red flag and you got it..:0)

And then something I'm reminding myself of as well

advising/sharing with you/this list... Trusting your

feelings does not mean it's always wise to act upon

them. That being knee jerk reactions. I've got a

longstanding history of knee jerking (being

triggered!)

Cyndie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> > I don't believe that the Parent/s actually

> > see One Child as 'All Good' & The Other as

> > 'All Bad' As I have recently heard about that

> > been written in a book called, " Understanding

> > The Borderline Mother " ...

>

>

> I've often wondered what kind of hidden emotional toll

> my brother is paying for having replaced me as the

> good child. On the one hand it must feel good that my

> father is " proud " of him, but how does it affect him

> that I've been scapegoated, and now he's the favorite?

I think he's likely very scared. It's scary to be " on a pedestal "

with any BP, because you know from previous experience or from seeing

someone else's experiences what a long way there is to fall and how

jagged the rocks are at the bottom. And all it takes is a whim on

the BP's part to knock you off that pedestal and send you crashing.

I think that's part of why I've always felt more comfortable being

a " failure " than I am feeling now that I'm starting to

be " successful. " I'm having problems just enjoying my success,

because I'm always waiting for the wind to change.

[Guest guest]

Dee from " Disclosures & Confrontations " wrote:

> I don't believe that the Parent/s actually

> see One Child as 'All Good' & The Other as

> 'All Bad' As I have recently heard about that

> been written in a book called, " Understanding

> The Borderline Mother " ...

>

Joy wrote:

> I've often wondered what kind of hidden emotional toll

> my brother is paying for having replaced me as the

> good child. On the one hand it must feel good that my

> father is " proud " of him, but how does it affect him

> that I've been scapegoated, and now he's the favorite?

Hi Joy!

Alcoholic BPD mother was so successful in waging a distortion campaign

against me (major fraud and forgery) behind my back, my only sibling, a

younger brother (age 53), was undoubtedly convinced mother was right to

alienate me. Ever since he was born, he was " all bad " and I was " all

good " , so for the first time in his life he was in Hog Heaven, and

deservedly so, since I had become such a scoundrel (according to

mother).

Smiles!

Carol

[Guest guest]

adovbs wrote:

> I don't believe that the Parent/s actually

> see One Child as 'All Good' & The Other as

> 'All Bad' As I have recently heard about that

> been written in a book called, " Understanding

> The Borderline Mother " ...

>

Joy wrote:

> I've often wondered what kind of hidden emotional toll

> my brother is paying for having replaced me as the

> good child. On the one hand it must feel good that my

> father is " proud " of him, but how does it affect him

> that I've been scapegoated, and now he's the favorite?

wrote:

> I think he's likely very scared. It's scary to be " on a pedestal "

> with any BP, because you know from previous experience or from seeing

> someone else's experiences what a long way there is to fall and how

> jagged the rocks are at the bottom. And all it takes is a whim on

> the BP's part to knock you off that pedestal and send you crashing.

Hi !

I was born on a " pedestal " . I was the first grandchild on both sides.

The sun rose and set on me, and I was the apple of mother's eye. She

adored me.

How did I feel about being on a " pedestal " ? Actually, I never thought

of myself as being on a " pedestal " , not until mother began her very slow

descent down the insanity tubes, beginning in the mid 80s. From day

one, even before my brother was born, I was Little Miss Goodie Two

Shoes, and I basked in her approval. I was born to please and appease,

and it fit perfectly into mother's needs. In fact, she was so thrilled

with her sweet little angel, she wanted another one just like me, but

she got my rebellious brother instead. He was everything I wasn't, and

it drove her absolutely crazy. He quickly assumed the role of " bad "

boy, and he never relinquished the title. I could do no wrong, and he

could do no right. Period.

Despite the stuff mother did to others over the years, including my

brother, not once did I ever dream she would do such stuff to me.

Never! It wasn't even a ripple on the waters of my consciousness. I

always thought mother was justified in everything she did. I was

convinced brother deserved everything he got, because he did " bad "

stuff. Mother's reality was mine. I never questioned it.

Now that I think about it, I do remember feeling guilty when I was

around 20. I had come to realize mother unfairly favored me over my

brother, and that I'd probably manipulated it to some extent, although I

don't recall doing it consciously. In any case, I worried that he would

hold it against me, but he reassured me he hadn't, and wouldn't.

Denial is bliss. When I fell off the pedestal, there were tons of

jagged rocks at the bottom of the pedestal, just as you said, . I

nearly bled to death, but I finally got up, cleaned myself off, bandaged

up the wounds, and then smashed the pedestal into a billion little

pieces, never to be climbed up on again.

Bottonline, I always felt totally safe and secure with mother. No one

in this world held my trust more than she did. That's why I was so

traumatized when she turned on me.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Smiles!

Carol

[Guest guest]

Hi Carol,

> I was born on a " pedestal " . I was the first grandchild on both

sides.

In our family, things were a bit less set. Most of the time, we

three kids were ALL split " bad " - except that my brother was usually

allowed to get away with some pretty awful behavior and my sister and

I were told that we had to make allowances for it because he was

ADHD. We were also taught that to " tattle " was a crime just as

punishable as the original offense - if not more. We learned those

lessons so well that by the time we were all in or nearing our teens,

my sister and I chose to hide in the locked bathroom when my brother

came at us with knives and other sharp things and to handle the

beatings he gave her ourselves rather than try to involve nada.

Fada, of course, wasn't even on the radar as an option.

> I was Little Miss Goodie Two

> Shoes, and I basked in her approval. I was born to please and

appease,

> and it fit perfectly into mother's needs. In fact, she was so

thrilled

> with her sweet little angel, she wanted another one just like me,

but

> she got my rebellious brother instead.

Wow, those are the exact words my mom uses when she talks about me

and my (younger) brother. She says " you were the perfect baby and so

easy to raise that I thought I'd have another one, and then I got

your brother and he burst my little bubble about my mothering

abilities. I almost didn't have another child after him. "

Now all this is kind of funny, given what I mentioned above, but I

think the fact that my brother was a boy stacked the deck a bit in

his favor as we were growing up.

> always thought mother was justified in everything she did. I was

> convinced brother deserved everything he got, because he did " bad "

> stuff. Mother's reality was mine. I never questioned it.

Well, if you can't trust your mom, who can you trust? I mean, that's

kind of a given of childhood - that you trust your mom implicitly. I

hope you don't beat yourself up too much about that. Your trust was

normal, her betrayal of it was not.

> Denial is bliss. When I fell off the pedestal, there were tons of

> jagged rocks at the bottom of the pedestal, just as you said,

. I

> nearly bled to death, but I finally got up, cleaned myself off,

bandaged

> up the wounds, and then smashed the pedestal into a billion little

> pieces, never to be climbed up on again.

Good for you, for all of that. It takes guts. *hugs*

I was split really " bad " after my mom and dad's divorce. My crime

was that I was 16 at the time and I was old enough to know when she

was distorting the truth and not being accurate about what was

happening. I had been *somewhat* back on a pedestal up to that point

because she needed me to keep house and watch the other kids, but

after an argument where she held my pet hamster captive and

threatened to kill him (I had disagreed with her about something)

then I left to live with my dad. (Yes, I took my hamster with me.

<smile>)

Nada called me things that I won't repeat, and wouldn't let me even

see my little sister (who I was very attached to and who considers me

even today to be her real " mom " ) for about 5 years.

> Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Yup! Words of wisdom to live by.

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

> > I was Little Miss Goodie Two Shoes, and I basked in her

> > approval. I was born to please and appease, and it fit

> > perfectly into mother's needs. In fact, she was so

> > thrilled with her sweet little angel, she wanted another

> > one just like me, but she got my rebellious brother

> > instead.

wrote:

> Wow, those are the exact words my mom uses

> when she talks about me and my (younger)

> brother. She says " you were the perfect

> baby and so easy to raise that I thought I'd

> have another one, and then I got your

> brother and he burst my little bubble about

> my mothering abilities. I almost didn't

> have another child after him. "

>

> Now all this is kind of funny, given what I

> mentioned above, but I think the fact that

> my brother was a boy stacked the deck a bit

> in his favor as we were growing up.

How interesting that your nada felt the same way about you. Mother

always needed someone who depended on her for their total existence, yet

she was fiercely independent herself. She often said, " I don't need

anyone. " She never allowed herself to be beholden to anyone, ever.

Yet, she always strove to be indispensable. She was generous, but

there was always a string attached.

Carol wrote:

> > always thought mother was justified in everything she

> > did. I was convinced brother deserved everything he

> > got, because he did " bad " stuff. Mother's reality

> > was mine. I never questioned it.

wrote:

> Well, if you can't trust your mom, who can

> you trust? I mean, that's kind of a given

> of childhood - that you trust your mom

> implicitly. I hope you don't beat yourself

> up too much about that. Your trust was

> normal, her betrayal of it was not.

Unfortunately, I did beat myself up, complete with major guilt trips.

But, I'm much wiser now. It took 50+ years to realize I was smelling

poopy, not poppies.

Carol wrote:

> > Denial is bliss. When I fell off the pedestal, there

> > were tons of jagged rocks at the bottom of the

> > pedestal, just as you said, . I nearly bled to

> > death, but I finally got up, cleaned myself off,

> > bandaged up the wounds, and then smashed the pedestal

> > into a billion little pieces, never to be climbed up

> > on again.

wrote:

> Good for you, for all of that. It takes

> guts. *hugs*

Thanks, . I don't know if it was guts, or street smarts.

wrote:

> I was split really " bad " after my mom and

> dad's divorce. My crime was that I was 16

> at the time and I was old enough to know

> when she was distorting the truth and not

> being accurate about what was happening. I

> had been *somewhat* back on a pedestal up

> to that point because she needed me to keep

> house and watch the other kids, but after

> an argument where she held my pet hamster

> captive and threatened to kill him (I had

> disagreed with her about something) then I

> left to live with my dad. (Yes, I took my

> hamster with me. <smile>)

Yup! They use the " pedestal " to manipulate. Mother actually did that

to my brother a few years ago, when she became desperate about her

failing health and mobility. She waged a distortion campaign against me

behind my back (fraud), which my brother believed. And of course,

brother never bothered to ask me for my side of the story. For the

first time in his life, he was way up high on the pedestal in Hog

Heaven. He felt justified there, because of what he thought I'd done to

mother. Once he was setup, she tried to bribe him with an enormous sum

of money, in the hopes he'd let her live with him. He refused.

wrote:

> Nada called me things that I won't repeat,

> and wouldn't let me even see my little

> sister (who I was very attached to and who

> considers me even today to be her real

> " mom " ) for about 5 years.

Gosh! That's terrible. Fortunately, my brother and I were spared name

calling. There was no name calling, no yelling and screaming, no rages

or temper. Everything was smooth and calm as glass. But still waters

run deep. Under the surface lurked unbelievable tension. The bad thing

about that is, everything seems okay, but it isn't.

Smiles!

Carol

[Guest guest]

--- Carol M wrote:

> How interesting that your nada felt the same way

> about you. Mother

> always needed someone who depended on her for their

> total existence, yet

> she was fiercely independent herself. She often

> said, " I don't need

> anyone. " She never allowed herself to be beholden

> to anyone, ever.

> Yet, she always strove to be indispensable. She

> was generous, but

> there was always a string attached.

You just described my MIL to the tee. I'd had

conversations w/my ex-SIL about this about 3 years ago

when MIL first dethroned her. How MIL would lay down

her life for anyone, give you her last dime, the shirt

off her back, etc. And at the same time cut you out of

her life as if she had wielded a dagger straight for

your heart if you didn't agree with everything she

said (which was usually something negative and/or

about someone else.) Your beliefs had to be hers or

ELSE you were her prime target for the distortion

campaign and being cut straight out of her life.

My SIL was like her clone when they were *close.* More

than that, they were like one person. They were so

enmeshed. One distortion campaign about me was that I

was jealous b/c of their close relationship. It wasn't

true though. They simply were not nice to me and

flaunted their relationship in my face. They loved to

feel better about themselves at other peoples expense.

I was prime target for them. Not anymore though. I

know my worth today and am learning to know more about

it every day.

My SIL has often said that she doesn't even know who

her mother is... she's so starkly contrasting.

Generous and closed... how is it one person could be

both to such and extreme in each instance - It IS hard

to figure out if you don't know where to look...

My SIL has since been dethroned for the second time in

November. MIL didn't even stick around for Christmas

Eve and Christmas and never even called any of her

grandkids (including my kids,) to wish them a Merry

Christmas. She's being the Waif/martyr. I had given my

SIL, Emotional Blackmail and The Emotional Incest

Syndrome to read. Just something to ease her into some

insight... I recently asked her if she'd read them,

she hadn't. I was considering giving her SWOE, but I

think she'd rather remain ignorant at this point...

Cie La Vie... You can lead a horse to water but you

can't make them drink.

I spoke w/my SIL in person today. She started a rant

about this and that... a rather negative rant about

the school psychologist re her sons new diagnosis of

ADD... I found myself observing her in her hysteria

and thought to myself... " Is this what I used to

respect? What I used to allow myself to get caught up

in? " Yech!

I aspire to something better now... I left her with

alternative perspectives to consider on a positive

note and walked away.

I'm so glad I'm out of that family tango... More

peices of the puzzle of my life are fitting

together... it's more widespread than I'd initially

thought. I thought it was all me and my family for all

these years and boy oh boy did they do everything to

make me think it. (Just like my ex.) I feel rather

foolish thinking about how duped I was by them. How

much of my power I gave away through the years. They

played many of the same games my ex played with me.

As far as if my SIL feels any remorse of sadness for

always being the good child - I don't think she's

allowed herself to think like that - to really see the

bigger picture of what her mother did to her son (SILs

brother.) It's sad really, that my ex should have

gotten so little from his own mother. He needed it

more than my SIL ever did... He got the short end of

the stick. My SIL believed all of the distortions

about my ex.

Ok, well they weren't all distortions - but they

initially started as projections of abusive FIL onto

the son. And maybe some of them were warranted. He did

have behaviors - but this was her son and she just

gave up and threw him away. I could have easily gone

this route w/my own son but I vowed I wouldn't turn my

back on him the way my MIL did on my ex. It wasn't my

sons fault that he learned behaviors. I also didn't

want my own daughter going through life thinking she

was better (arrogantly so,) than her brother like my

SIL thought about hers. I have two kids and I will

love both equally and teach them to love each other as

well. There are no pedastals in this house!

I can finally see that I am so much better off than

all of them and getting better all the time...:0)

I will do my best never to give my power away like

that ever again.

Cyndie

ps.. Sorry for the ramble, it needed to come out. (And

this is the shorter version! lol)

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

> How interesting that your nada felt the same way

> about you. Mother always needed someone who

> depended on her for their total existence, yet

> she was fiercely independent herself. She often

> said, " I don't need anyone. " She never allowed

> herself to be beholden to anyone, ever. Yet, she

> always strove to be indispensable. She was

> generous, but there was always a string attached.

Cyndie McCoy wrote:

> You just described my MIL to the tee. I'd had

> conversations w/my ex-SIL about this about 3 years ago

> when MIL first dethroned her. How MIL would lay down

> her life for anyone, give you her last dime, the shirt

> off her back, etc. And at the same time cut you out of

> her life as if she had wielded a dagger straight for

> your heart if you didn't agree with everything she

> said (which was usually something negative and/or

> about someone else.) Your beliefs had to be hers or

> ELSE you were her prime target for the distortion

> campaign and being cut straight out of her life.

It's utterly amazing how similar this stuff is, huh? We really live in

a small world, and we're not alone at all either. We thought we were

alone, so we suffered in silence. Sigh!

> I'm so glad I'm out of that family tango...

Good for you, Cyndie!

> More peices of the puzzle of my life are fitting

> together...

Yes! Yes! Yes! It's unbelievable how the nonsense makes sense now. Why

couldn't we see it before? Why, oh why, oh why.

> ............. it's more widespread than I'd initially

> thought.

Yes, when the pieces start fitting together, we can see how other stuff

fits in too, stuff we didn't even think was connected.

> I thought it was all me and my family for all

> these years and boy oh boy did they do everything to

> make me think it.

Yup! They knew exactly how to play into our insecurities, and we let

them. Ugh!

Smiles!

Carol

[Guest guest]

,

What you're saying makes so much sense. I think I

must have subtly felt that insecurity as a child

because I was " good " but my mother and others were

" bad " , so unconsciously I must have known - one wrong

move and you can be thrown out too.

Joy

--- adovbs wrote:

>

> > > I don't believe that the Parent/s actually

> > > see One Child as 'All Good' & The Other as

> > > 'All Bad' As I have recently heard about that

> > > been written in a book called, " Understanding

> > > The Borderline Mother " ...

> >

> >

> > I've often wondered what kind of hidden emotional

> toll

> > my brother is paying for having replaced me as the

> > good child. On the one hand it must feel good

> that my

> > father is " proud " of him, but how does it affect

> him

> > that I've been scapegoated, and now he's the

> favorite?

>

> I think he's likely very scared. It's scary to be

> " on a pedestal "

> with any BP, because you know from previous

> experience or from seeing

> someone else's experiences what a long way there is

> to fall and how

> jagged the rocks are at the bottom. And all it

> takes is a whim on

> the BP's part to knock you off that pedestal and

> send you crashing.

>

> I think that's part of why I've always felt more

> comfortable being

> a " failure " than I am feeling now that I'm starting

> to

> be " successful. " I'm having problems just enjoying

> my success,

> because I'm always waiting for the wind to change.

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Carol,

That must feel awful.

I don't think my brother is gloating over this. I

think he's more likely scared as in 's scenario.

But no one talks about anything. Everyone sort of

pretends it isn't happening. That can add to my

feeling like I'm the only one with a problem.

Its interesting how blatant and subtle abuse can look

so different and yet result in the same feelings.

Joy

--- Carol M wrote:

> Dee from " Disclosures & Confrontations " wrote:

> > I don't believe that the Parent/s actually

> > see One Child as 'All Good' & The Other as

> > 'All Bad' As I have recently heard about that

> > been written in a book called, " Understanding

> > The Borderline Mother " ...

> >

>

> Joy wrote:

> > I've often wondered what kind of hidden emotional

> toll

> > my brother is paying for having replaced me as the

> > good child. On the one hand it must feel good

> that my

> > father is " proud " of him, but how does it affect

> him

> > that I've been scapegoated, and now he's the

> favorite?

>

>

> Hi Joy!

> Alcoholic BPD mother was so successful in waging a

> distortion campaign

> against me (major fraud and forgery) behind my back,

> my only sibling, a

> younger brother (age 53), was undoubtedly convinced

> mother was right to

> alienate me. Ever since he was born, he was " all

> bad " and I was " all

> good " , so for the first time in his life he was in

> Hog Heaven, and

> deservedly so, since I had become such a scoundrel

> (according to

> mother).

>

> Smiles!

> Carol

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Carol,

Wow. I've never heard anyone express so well what it

feels like to be on that pedestal and fall. That's

exactly how I felt. And its inspiring to hear your

passionate commitment to yourself and your sanity.

I was guessing that I must have subtly been afraid

because my mother and others were made bad. But at

the time, consciously, I completely trusted him as you

describe. Still, I think underneath it all I must

have known something was wrong. Especially since the

bad one was not a sibling but my mother, my female

role model. How could I stay in his good graces? By

not being like my mother. But I come from her. So I

had to deny part of who I am to keep getting his

approval. And I had to betray my mother. Most of my

feelings were not revealed to me until I fell from the

pedestal and realized the rug had been completely

pulled out from under my feet. I hadn't developed my

own sense of self, even though I seemed to be strong

and successful throughout childhood. I lived for his

approval, and then he took it all away. I'm still

sorting this all out, still looking for a therapist.

It's so confusing, but I'm starting to have some more

clarity. I made some calls today to find a therapist.

Step by step.

Joy

--- Carol M wrote:

> adovbs wrote:

> > I don't believe that the Parent/s actually

> > see One Child as 'All Good' & The Other as

> > 'All Bad' As I have recently heard about that

> > been written in a book called, " Understanding

> > The Borderline Mother " ...

> >

> Joy wrote:

> > I've often wondered what kind of hidden emotional

> toll

> > my brother is paying for having replaced me as the

> > good child. On the one hand it must feel good

> that my

> > father is " proud " of him, but how does it affect

> him

> > that I've been scapegoated, and now he's the

> favorite?

>

> wrote:

> > I think he's likely very scared. It's scary to be

> " on a pedestal "

> > with any BP, because you know from previous

> experience or from seeing

> > someone else's experiences what a long way there

> is to fall and how

> > jagged the rocks are at the bottom. And all it

> takes is a whim on

> > the BP's part to knock you off that pedestal and

> send you crashing.

>

> Hi !

>

> I was born on a " pedestal " . I was the first

> grandchild on both sides.

> The sun rose and set on me, and I was the apple of

> mother's eye. She

> adored me.

>

> How did I feel about being on a " pedestal " ?

> Actually, I never thought

> of myself as being on a " pedestal " , not until mother

> began her very slow

> descent down the insanity tubes, beginning in the

> mid 80s. From day

> one, even before my brother was born, I was Little

> Miss Goodie Two

> Shoes, and I basked in her approval. I was born to

> please and appease,

> and it fit perfectly into mother's needs. In fact,

> she was so thrilled

> with her sweet little angel, she wanted another one

> just like me, but

> she got my rebellious brother instead. He was

> everything I wasn't, and

> it drove her absolutely crazy. He quickly assumed

> the role of " bad "

> boy, and he never relinquished the title. I could

> do no wrong, and he

> could do no right. Period.

>

> Despite the stuff mother did to others over the

> years, including my

> brother, not once did I ever dream she would do such

> stuff to me.

> Never! It wasn't even a ripple on the waters of my

> consciousness. I

> always thought mother was justified in everything

> she did. I was

> convinced brother deserved everything he got,

> because he did " bad "

> stuff. Mother's reality was mine. I never

> questioned it.

>

> Now that I think about it, I do remember feeling

> guilty when I was

> around 20. I had come to realize mother unfairly

> favored me over my

> brother, and that I'd probably manipulated it to

> some extent, although I

> don't recall doing it consciously. In any case, I

> worried that he would

> hold it against me, but he reassured me he hadn't,

> and wouldn't.

>

> Denial is bliss. When I fell off the pedestal,

> there were tons of

> jagged rocks at the bottom of the pedestal, just as

> you said, . I

> nearly bled to death, but I finally got up, cleaned

> myself off, bandaged

> up the wounds, and then smashed the pedestal into a

> billion little

> pieces, never to be climbed up on again.

>

> Bottonline, I always felt totally safe and secure

> with mother. No one

> in this world held my trust more than she did.

> That's why I was so

> traumatized when she turned on me.

>

> Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on

> me.

>

> Smiles!

> Carol

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> Gosh! That's terrible. Fortunately, my brother and

> I were spared name

> calling. There was no name calling, no yelling and

> screaming, no rages

> or temper. Everything was smooth and calm as glass.

> But still waters

> run deep. Under the surface lurked unbelievable

> tension. The bad thing

> about that is, everything seems okay, but it isn't.

>

Same here.

-Aviva

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> SIL thought about hers. I have two kids and I will

> love both equally and teach them to love each other

> as

> well. There are no pedastals in this house!

>

> I can finally see that I am so much better off than

> all of them and getting better all the time...:0)

>

> I will do my best never to give my power away like

> that ever again.

>

> Cyndie

Good for you!!!

Who's the author of the emotional incest syndrome

book?

Joy

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Found it... this looks very relevant:

http://www.webheights.net/GrowingbeyondEmotionalAbuse/plove/plei.htm

-Joy

--- Joy wrote:

>

> > SIL thought about hers. I have two kids and I will

> > love both equally and teach them to love each

> other

> > as

> > well. There are no pedastals in this house!

> >

> > I can finally see that I am so much better off

> than

> > all of them and getting better all the time...:0)

> >

> > I will do my best never to give my power away like

> > that ever again.

> >

> > Cyndie

>

> Good for you!!!

>

> Who's the author of the emotional incest syndrome

> book?

>

> Joy

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

> Alcoholic BPD mother was so successful in waging a

> distortion campaign against me (major fraud and

> forgery) behind my back, my only sibling, a younger

> brother (age 53), was undoubtedly convinced mother

> was right to alienate me. Ever since he was born,

> he was " all bad " and I was " all good " , so for the

> first time in his life he was in Hog Heaven, and

> deservedly so, since I had become such a scoundrel

> (according to mother).

Joy wrote:

>

> Carol,

>

> That must feel awful.

>

> I don't think my brother is gloating over this. I

> think he's more likely scared as in 's scenario.

> But no one talks about anything. Everyone sort of

> pretends it isn't happening. That can add to my

> feeling like I'm the only one with a problem.

> Its interesting how blatant and subtle abuse can look

> so different and yet result in the same feelings.

Hi Joy!

When mother accused me of fraud, I didn't know she had been waging a

distortion campaign against me. A year later I found out about the

distortion campaign, but by that time, brother knew the truth, and he

was okay with me. As far as I know, mother still thinks I committed

fraud. She has to believe her fantasy, because if she doesn't, she'd

have to admit to being wrong, and she will never do that. Mother is

always right. And as long as she's right, I'm wrong. In her world, I

can't win, but her world is no longer my reality, so she has no power to

hurt me anymore.

It's really difficult when one's family, such as yours, chooses to walk

in a fog bank. They feel safe there, because they can't see anything.

Eventually they'll walk into a wall, and then they'll have to deal with

it. In the meantime, all we can do is wait and watch, while we

patiently travel along our healing path. Step by step, we'll get there,

if we keep the faith.

Nothing is forever. There are no accidents.

Smiles,

Carol

[Guest guest]

Re: Re: Disclosures & Confrontations!

---

I don't know that I have fallen off the pedestal yet. Probably will soon

as my boundaries are becoming stronger every day. With the help of my

therapist and this group I think I can handle it. Like you I never had a

sense of self. I'm 42 years old and just beginning to realize who I am.

And what's really amazing is I think sometimes that I like what I see. You

can get there. I seem to move in and out of the zone. And I know that

right before I have a breakthrough, I get even more depressed than I was

before. It's hard giving up what we've always known, even though it wasn't

good for us. And it so scary making decisions that will change my life

forever. But I take baby steps.

jules

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- Stafford wrote:

And I know that

> right before I have a breakthrough, I get even more

> depressed than I was

> before. It's hard giving up what we've always

> known, even though it wasn't

> good for us.

Hi Jules,

I read in The Road Less Traveled that depression is

due to the giving up of something... the loss of...

it's funny how you mentioned this. I never realized

the correlation for myself until I read that passage.

And it so scary making decisions that

> will change my life

> forever. But I take baby steps.

And I also read that it takes a lot of courage to make

the decisions to change your life. The book is not

called The Road Less Traveled for nuttin... I think

the KO's on this list are all very courageous.

Take care,

Cyndie

__________________________________________________