Guest guest Posted December 31, 2001 Report Share Posted December 31, 2001 Yo Other O's, I have some great news to report on my nada. She just called about an hour ago. I have Caller ID so I took a deep breath and set boundaries till I was blue in the face. It was sort of reverse tough-love but, hey, it can't get any worse. I haven't talked to her for ages. Actually, I don't know myself because I would post here if I did. So, she started in on how she wanted to wish me a Happy New Year. I cut her off at the pass and said that was fine but that I wanted my feelings validated. When she said she still didn't know what I meant, I explained again that I wanted to be listened to, not be her parent, her partner, her best friend and therapissant. I told her that validating feelings meant support, just listening, and saying 'I hear how you say you feel' without adding to my feelings, arguing, or telling me I have no feelings. So, she listened. I was on a roll and told her that there were things in my past that I should have never had to be subjected to, i.e. emotional incest in hearing about her sex life with my father before I even knew what sex was. (Crotch posting). She agreed. She apologized profusely and said that she was so needy that she had to have someone to talk to but I told her that it wasn't right to do this to me as a child. I was on a roll, and politely told her outright that I was setting boundaries with her. She's pretty high functioning. She said that she knew why I had backed off because I just couldn't stand anymore. She also admitted that she had some deep psychological problems. <sheesh>. She also admitted that she probably was in denial because she didn't remember some of the stuff that she said because she was psychotic and possibly *a borderline*. <holy moley, we gonna have a ticker-tape parade or what?> ;-) Since she brought it up I mentioned I was on a listserv for nons with a BP in their life. She said, " great " good for you. <Are you all still with me and alive, Other O's?!!!!!!!> I told her, tactfully, but very cautiously, since she brought it up that she may have her dx wrong and that she should check with her therapissant about BPD. Her reply, " well, if anyone would know, it would be you " . :-) Now, she admitted psychotic rages, out of control behavior and projecting, denial, the whole ball of wax. I also told her that I wasnt going to enable her anymore and that for people who asked, I tell them that she is emotionally, psychologically and verbally abusive. She seemed to take that quite well, albeit surprised, but abuse is hidden and I'm tired of hiding it and I told her so. My dear Other O's, I pulled out the stops and took control of the shituation. She wants to hear from me; letters, phone calls, etc. but I told her that none of the letters were about me; they are all about her. I told her that since it was a parent-child relationshit that I was the one to be asked about my feelings. So she did. She asked me what I needed. I about fell off the couch. I told her I needed support, encouragement, feelings validated, a good listening to and some recognition and appreciation. I told her I loved her. There is no doubt about that. I just told her that her behaviors were so horrible that I couldn't go on this way. She tried to change the subject about 4 times but I wouldn't let her. I put her back on track. She actually admitted she was a pissant and that she was glad I'd found this group. Now, we said more about other things but I didn't let it get out of hand and her to talk about herself so much. She said that all she wanted was to always be my friend. I told her that best friend was out of the question because of the relationshit but that some sharing on her part, of course, was otay, but none of this therapissant, parental role-switching, partner, SO or bestest friend stuff and dumping 100% on me. I said I had needs that hadn't been met for over 50 years and that if there was to be anything to salvage in this relationshit that she was to put me into it first as a child. She agreed to all of this. I told her I was in a support group here and she said I deserved it for all I have been through. I told her I was no longer walking on eggshells. Well, about 20 minutes of the conversation, she apologized and I let her go. We both agree it was enough for a day. Especially, for being flatened with my boundaries. (For those of you who are worried, don't be, she doesn't have a computer, and she thinks the Internet is for porn only). Now, she did ask me for the first time in 50 years what she could do. Holy moley, O's!! I said she could listen to me and not make it all about her. I also told her that she could ask me how I feel and then listen. She agreed that she had used me as a dump station. But, she did listen today. We'll see how it goes. Now, am I being hoovered? Hhhhhhhhmmmmmm. Deeeep hmmmmm. I told her outright that she was in a 'honeymoon phase' of the relationshit and that I was very wary of her honey nice-nice behaviors and that if she went back to that other stuff it was over. Period. I said that nice but I'm adamant and she knows it. I told her that I was going to steam-roller her with boundaries till she " gets it " and she was boundaried and couldn't take it anymore. She said she respected that. She said she'd done me wrong. Well, O's , she has but with this group I could not have made it. I'm staying on and letting you all know. Actually, I feel so proud of myself I could just spit but I came here instead. Now, this is good news and it's New Year's Eve. I want a ticker-tape parade, some nee ner dancing and some whooping it up for some progress. One Ozzie asked if there ever was any good news. Otay, this is it!!!! Grab your mousies, hug your monitors, do-si-do your keyboard and let er rip...... Everybody do the nee ner dance!!!!! *Naa, na, nada, naa na nada, nee nerer, hooo-boy!* `1`1 ``` 1 ` ` ` `66``88`8 ----````'''`' That's confetti I'm throwing and a ticker-tape parade. Anyone can join. Just don't get it in you mouth or keyboard. Puti. <spit it out>. Now I want everyone in ModO to join in and share my joy. We share our stories, our feelings, our sorrow, our struggles, now it's time to share our progress. We are moving and shaking in Oz, Grabbing you alls for a hug if youse alls wants one, and I always hug myself, ((((((((Oasians)))))))))) ((((((Rita))))))) I wuvs ya and tanks for listening! Rita " And she'll have fun, fun, fun till her daddy takes the keyboard away. 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Guest guest Posted December 31, 2001 Report Share Posted December 31, 2001 mouth hangin open, and tears in eyes....great news Rita! Happy New Year! Kathleen > > Yo Other O's, > > I have some great news to report on my nada. She just called about an hour > ago. I have Caller ID so I took a deep breath and set boundaries till I was > blue in the face. It was sort of reverse tough-love but, hey, it can't get > any worse. > > I haven't talked to her for ages. Actually, I don't know myself because I > would post here if I did. So, she started in on how she wanted to wish me a > Happy New Year. I cut her off at the pass and said that was fine but that I > wanted my feelings validated. When she said she still didn't know what I > meant, I explained again that I wanted to be listened to, not be her parent, > her partner, her best friend and therapissant. I told her that validating > feelings meant support, just listening, and saying 'I hear how you say you > feel' without adding to my feelings, arguing, or telling me I have no > feelings. So, she listened. I was on a roll and told her that there were > things in my past that I should have never had to be subjected to, i.e. > emotional incest in hearing about her sex life with my father before I even > knew what sex was. (Crotch posting). She agreed. She apologized profusely > and said that she was so needy that she had to have someone to talk to but I > told her that it wasn't right to do this to me as a child. I was on a roll, > and politely told her outright that I was setting boundaries with her. She's > pretty high functioning. She said that she knew why I had backed off because > I just couldn't stand anymore. She also admitted that she had some deep > psychological problems. <sheesh>. She also admitted that she probably was > in denial because she didn't remember some of the stuff that she said because > she was psychotic and possibly *a borderline*. <holy moley, we gonna have a > ticker-tape parade or what?> ;-) Since she brought it up I mentioned I was > on a listserv for nons with a BP in their life. She said, " great " good for > you. <Are you all still with me and alive, Other O's?!!!!!!!> I told her, > tactfully, but very cautiously, since she brought it up that she may have her > dx wrong and that she should check with her therapissant about BPD. Her > reply, " well, if anyone would know, it would be you " . :-) Now, she admitted > psychotic rages, out of control behavior and projecting, denial, the whole > ball of wax. I also told her that I wasnt going to enable her anymore and > that for people who asked, I tell them that she is emotionally, > psychologically and verbally abusive. She seemed to take that quite well, > albeit surprised, but abuse is hidden and I'm tired of hiding it and I told > her so. My dear Other O's, I pulled out the stops and took control of the > shituation. She wants to hear from me; letters, phone calls, etc. but I > told her that none of the letters were about me; they are all about her. I > told her that since it was a parent-child relationshit that I was the one to > be asked about my feelings. So she did. She asked me what I needed. I > about fell off the couch. I told her I needed support, encouragement, > feelings validated, a good listening to and some recognition and > appreciation. I told her I loved her. There is no doubt about that. I just > told her that her behaviors were so horrible that I couldn't go on this way. > She tried to change the subject about 4 times but I wouldn't let her. I put > her back on track. She actually admitted she was a pissant and that she was > glad I'd found this group. Now, we said more about other things but I didn't > let it get out of hand and her to talk about herself so much. She said that > all she wanted was to always be my friend. I told her that best friend was > out of the question because of the relationshit but that some sharing on her > part, of course, was otay, but none of this therapissant, parental > role-switching, partner, SO or bestest friend stuff and dumping 100% on me. > I said I had needs that hadn't been met for over 50 years and that if there > was to be anything to salvage in this relationshit that she was to put me > into it first as a child. She agreed to all of this. I told her I was in a > support group here and she said I deserved it for all I have been through. I > told her I was no longer walking on eggshells. Well, about 20 minutes of the > conversation, she apologized and I let her go. We both agree it was enough > for a day. Especially, for being flatened with my boundaries. (For those of > you who are worried, don't be, she doesn't have a computer, and she thinks > the Internet is for porn only). > > Now, she did ask me for the first time in 50 years what she could do. Holy > moley, O's!! I said she could listen to me and not make it all about her. I > also told her that she could ask me how I feel and then listen. She agreed > that she had used me as a dump station. But, she did listen today. We'll > see how it goes. > > Now, am I being hoovered? Hhhhhhhhmmmmmm. Deeeep hmmmmm. I told her > outright that she was in a 'honeymoon phase' of the relationshit and that I > was very wary of her honey nice-nice behaviors and that if she went back to > that other stuff it was over. Period. I said that nice but I'm adamant and > she knows it. I told her that I was going to steam-roller her with boundaries > till she " gets it " and she was boundaried and couldn't take it anymore. She > said she respected that. She said she'd done me wrong. Well, O's , she has > but with this group I could not have made it. I'm staying on and letting you > all know. Actually, I feel so proud of myself I could just spit but I came > here instead. > > Now, this is good news and it's New Year's Eve. I want a ticker-tape parade, > some nee ner dancing and some whooping it up for some progress. One Ozzie > asked if there ever was any good news. Otay, this is it!!!! Grab your > mousies, hug your monitors, do-si-do your keyboard and let er rip...... > > Everybody do the nee ner dance!!!!! > *Naa, na, nada, naa na nada, nee nerer, hooo-boy!* > > > `1`1 ``` 1 ` ` ` `66``88`8 ----````'''`' > > That's confetti I'm throwing and a ticker-tape parade. Anyone can join. > Just don't get it in you mouth or keyboard. Puti. <spit it out>. > > Now I want everyone in ModO to join in and share my joy. We share our > stories, our feelings, our sorrow, our struggles, now it's time to share our > progress. > > We are moving and shaking in Oz, > > Grabbing you alls for a hug if youse alls wants one, and I always hug myself, > > ((((((((Oasians)))))))))) > > ((((((Rita))))))) > > I wuvs ya and tanks for listening! > > Rita > > > " And she'll have fun, fun, fun till her daddy takes the keyboard away. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2001 Report Share Posted December 31, 2001 Rita............ You go, girl! Confetti............ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Ticker-tape parade........... x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x Best wishes, Carol Rita wrote: > Now, this is good news and it's New Year's Eve. I want a > ticker-tape parade, some nee ner dancing and some whooping > it up for some progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2001 Report Share Posted December 31, 2001 Tears in my eyes too. What a wonderful way to start the New Year. Happy New Year! Patty thanksforthisday wrote: mouth hangin open, and tears in eyes....great news Rita! Happy New Year! Kathleen > > Yo Other O's, > > I have some great news to report on my nada. She just called about an hour > ago. I have Caller ID so I took a deep breath and set boundaries till I was > blue in the face. It was sort of reverse tough-love but, hey, it can't get > any worse. > > I haven't talked to her for ages. Actually, I don't know myself because I > would post here if I did. So, she started in on how she wanted to wish me a > Happy New Year. I cut her off at the pass and said that was fine but that I > wanted my feelings validated. When she said she still didn't know what I > meant, I explained again that I wanted to be listened to, not be her parent, > her partner, her best friend and therapissant. I told her that validating > feelings meant support, just listening, and saying 'I hear how you say you > feel' without adding to my feelings, arguing, or telling me I have no > feelings. So, she listened. I was on a roll and told her that there were > things in my past that I should have never had to be subjected to, i.e. > emotional incest in hearing about her sex life with my father before I even > knew what sex was. (Crotch posting). She agreed. She apologized profusely > and said that she was so needy that she had to have someone to talk to but I > told her that it wasn't right to do this to me as a child. I was on a roll, > and politely told her outright that I was setting boundaries with her. She's > pretty high functioning. She said that she knew why I had backed off because > I just couldn't stand anymore. She also admitted that she had some deep > psychological problems. <sheesh>. She also admitted that she probably was > in denial because she didn't remember some of the stuff that she said because > she was psychotic and possibly *a borderline*. <holy moley, we gonna have a > ticker-tape parade or what?> ;-) Since she brought it up I mentioned I was > on a listserv for nons with a BP in their life. She said, " great " good for > you. <Are you all still with me and alive, Other O's?!!!!!!!> I told her, > tactfully, but very cautiously, since she brought it up that she may have her > dx wrong and that she should check with her therapissant about BPD. Her > reply, " well, if anyone would know, it would be you " . :-) Now, she admitted > psychotic rages, out of control behavior and projecting, denial, the whole > ball of wax. I also told her that I wasnt going to enable her anymore and > that for people who asked, I tell them that she is emotionally, > psychologically and verbally abusive. She seemed to take that quite well, > albeit surprised, but abuse is hidden and I'm tired of hiding it and I told > her so. My dear Other O's, I pulled out the stops and took control of the > shituation. She wants to hear from me; letters, phone calls, etc. but I > told her that none of the letters were about me; they are all about her. I > told her that since it was a parent-child relationshit that I was the one to > be asked about my feelings. So she did. She asked me what I needed. I > about fell off the couch. I told her I needed support, encouragement, > feelings validated, a good listening to and some recognition and > appreciation. I told her I loved her. There is no doubt about that. I just > told her that her behaviors were so horrible that I couldn't go on this way. > She tried to change the subject about 4 times but I wouldn't let her. I put > her back on track. She actually admitted she was a pissant and that she was > glad I'd found this group. Now, we said more about other things but I didn't > let it get out of hand and her to talk about herself so much. She said that > all she wanted was to always be my friend. I told her that best friend was > out of the question because of the relationshit but that some sharing on her > part, of course, was otay, but none of this therapissant, parental > role-switching, partner, SO or bestest friend stuff and dumping 100% on me. > I said I had needs that hadn't been met for over 50 years and that if there > was to be anything to salvage in this relationshit that she was to put me > into it first as a child. She agreed to all of this. I told her I was in a > support group here and she said I deserved it for all I have been through. I > told her I was no longer walking on eggshells. Well, about 20 minutes of the > conversation, she apologized and I let her go. We both agree it was enough > for a day. Especially, for being flatened with my boundaries. (For those of > you who are worried, don't be, she doesn't have a computer, and she thinks > the Internet is for porn only). > > Now, she did ask me for the first time in 50 years what she could do. Holy > moley, O's!! I said she could listen to me and not make it all about her. I > also told her that she could ask me how I feel and then listen. She agreed > that she had used me as a dump station. But, she did listen today. We'll > see how it goes. > > Now, am I being hoovered? Hhhhhhhhmmmmmm. Deeeep hmmmmm. I told her > outright that she was in a 'honeymoon phase' of the relationshit and that I > was very wary of her honey nice-nice behaviors and that if she went back to > that other stuff it was over. Period. I said that nice but I'm adamant and > she knows it. I told her that I was going to steam-roller her with boundaries > till she " gets it " and she was boundaried and couldn't take it anymore. She > said she respected that. She said she'd done me wrong. Well, O's , she has > but with this group I could not have made it. I'm staying on and letting you > all know. Actually, I feel so proud of myself I could just spit but I came > here instead. > > Now, this is good news and it's New Year's Eve. I want a ticker-tape parade, > some nee ner dancing and some whooping it up for some progress. One Ozzie > asked if there ever was any good news. Otay, this is it!!!! Grab your > mousies, hug your monitors, do-si-do your keyboard and let er rip...... > > Everybody do the nee ner dance!!!!! > *Naa, na, nada, naa na nada, nee nerer, hooo-boy!* > > > `1`1 ``` 1 ` ` ` `66``88`8 ----````'''`' > > That's confetti I'm throwing and a ticker-tape parade. Anyone can join. > Just don't get it in you mouth or keyboard. Puti. <spit it out>. > > Now I want everyone in ModO to join in and share my joy. We share our > stories, our feelings, our sorrow, our struggles, now it's time to share our > progress. > > We are moving and shaking in Oz, > > Grabbing you alls for a hug if youse alls wants one, and I always hug myself, > > ((((((((Oasians)))))))))) > > ((((((Rita))))))) > > I wuvs ya and tanks for listening! > > Rita > > > " And she'll have fun, fun, fun till her daddy takes the keyboard away. " To get off the list, send a blank message to ModOasis-unsubscribe . Send questions & concerns to ModOasis-owner . " Stop Waking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For the table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2002 Report Share Posted January 1, 2002 WOW! Amazing! I don't know you but I'm so happy for you. I hope that I can do that someday, regardless of what the response will be. (hearing a story like this does feed the fantasy that my father will change someday and " get it " , but I'll try to let go of that). Thank you so much for sharing your success and your joy. - Joy --- Chu7190565@... wrote: > > Yo Other O's, > > I have some great news to report on my nada. She > just called about an hour > ago. I have Caller ID so I took a deep breath and > set boundaries till I was > blue in the face. It was sort of reverse tough-love > but, hey, it can't get > any worse. > > I haven't talked to her for ages. Actually, I don't > know myself because I > would post here if I did. So, she started in on how > she wanted to wish me a > Happy New Year. I cut her off at the pass and said > that was fine but that I > wanted my feelings validated. When she said she > still didn't know what I > meant, I explained again that I wanted to be > listened to, not be her parent, > her partner, her best friend and therapissant. I > told her that validating > feelings meant support, just listening, and saying > 'I hear how you say you > feel' without adding to my feelings, arguing, or > telling me I have no > feelings. So, she listened. I was on a roll and > told her that there were > things in my past that I should have never had to be > subjected to, i.e. > emotional incest in hearing about her sex life with > my father before I even > knew what sex was. (Crotch posting). She agreed. > She apologized profusely > and said that she was so needy that she had to have > someone to talk to but I > told her that it wasn't right to do this to me as a > child. I was on a roll, > and politely told her outright that I was setting > boundaries with her. She's > pretty high functioning. She said that she knew why > I had backed off because > I just couldn't stand anymore. She also admitted > that she had some deep > psychological problems. <sheesh>. She also > admitted that she probably was > in denial because she didn't remember some of the > stuff that she said because > she was psychotic and possibly *a borderline*. > <holy moley, we gonna have a > ticker-tape parade or what?> ;-) Since she > brought it up I mentioned I was > on a listserv for nons with a BP in their life. She > said, " great " good for > you. <Are you all still with me and alive, Other > O's?!!!!!!!> I told her, > tactfully, but very cautiously, since she brought it > up that she may have her > dx wrong and that she should check with her > therapissant about BPD. Her > reply, " well, if anyone would know, it would be > you " . :-) Now, she admitted > psychotic rages, out of control behavior and > projecting, denial, the whole > ball of wax. I also told her that I wasnt going to > enable her anymore and > that for people who asked, I tell them that she is > emotionally, > psychologically and verbally abusive. She seemed to > take that quite well, > albeit surprised, but abuse is hidden and I'm tired > of hiding it and I told > her so. My dear Other O's, I pulled out the stops > and took control of the > shituation. She wants to hear from me; letters, > phone calls, etc. but I > told her that none of the letters were about me; > they are all about her. I > told her that since it was a parent-child > relationshit that I was the one to > be asked about my feelings. So she did. She asked > me what I needed. I > about fell off the couch. I told her I needed > support, encouragement, > feelings validated, a good listening to and some > recognition and > appreciation. I told her I loved her. There is no > doubt about that. I just > told her that her behaviors were so horrible that I > couldn't go on this way. > She tried to change the subject about 4 times but I > wouldn't let her. I put > her back on track. She actually admitted she was a > pissant and that she was > glad I'd found this group. Now, we said more about > other things but I didn't > let it get out of hand and her to talk about herself > so much. She said that > all she wanted was to always be my friend. I told > her that best friend was > out of the question because of the relationshit but > that some sharing on her > part, of course, was otay, but none of this > therapissant, parental > role-switching, partner, SO or bestest friend stuff > and dumping 100% on me. > I said I had needs that hadn't been met for over 50 > years and that if there > was to be anything to salvage in this relationshit > that she was to put me > into it first as a child. She agreed to all of > this. I told her I was in a > support group here and she said I deserved it for > all I have been through. I > told her I was no longer walking on eggshells. > Well, about 20 minutes of the > conversation, she apologized and I let her go. We > both agree it was enough > for a day. Especially, for being flatened with my > boundaries. (For those of > you who are worried, don't be, she doesn't have a > computer, and she thinks > the Internet is for porn only). > > Now, she did ask me for the first time in 50 years > what she could do. Holy > moley, O's!! I said she could listen to me and not > make it all about her. I > also told her that she could ask me how I feel and > then listen. She agreed > that she had used me as a dump station. But, she > did listen today. We'll > see how it goes. > > Now, am I being hoovered? Hhhhhhhhmmmmmm. Deeeep > hmmmmm. I told her > outright that she was in a 'honeymoon phase' of the > relationshit and that I > was very wary of her honey nice-nice behaviors and > that if she went back to > that other stuff it was over. Period. I said that > nice but I'm adamant and > she knows it. I told her that I was going to > steam-roller her with boundaries > till she " gets it " and she was boundaried and > couldn't take it anymore. She > said she respected that. She said she'd done me > wrong. Well, O's , she has > but with this group I could not have made it. I'm > staying on and letting you > all know. Actually, I feel so proud of myself I > could just spit but I came > here instead. > > Now, this is good news and it's New Year's Eve. I > want a ticker-tape parade, > some nee ner dancing and some whooping it up for > some progress. One Ozzie > asked if there ever was any good news. Otay, this > is it!!!! Grab your > mousies, hug your monitors, do-si-do your keyboard > and let er rip...... > > Everybody do the > nee ner dance!!!!! > *Naa, na, nada, naa na nada, > nee nerer, hooo-boy!* > > > `1`1 ``` 1 ` ` ` `66``88`8 ----````'''`' > > That's confetti I'm throwing and a ticker-tape > parade. Anyone can join. > Just don't get it in you mouth or keyboard. Puti. > <spit it out>. > > Now I want everyone in ModO to join in and share my > joy. We share our > stories, our feelings, our sorrow, our struggles, > now it's time to share our > progress. > > We are moving and shaking in Oz, > > Grabbing you alls for a hug if youse alls wants one, > and I always hug myself, > > ((((((((Oasians)))))))))) > > ((((((Rita))))))) > > I wuvs ya and tanks for listening! > > Rita > > > " And she'll have fun, fun, fun till her daddy takes > the keyboard away. " > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2002 Report Share Posted January 1, 2002 Rita wrote: > Now, am I being hoovered? Hhhhhhhhmmmmmm. Deeeep hmmmmm. I told > her outright that she was in a 'honeymoon phase' of the relationshit Hey... is that a new word for KO's? Or just a typo? LOL Rita, you go girl! ) ) ) I sincerely hope your mom is able to stay with the awareness, continue to take responsibility for her own behavior, and hopefully make progress so that you can reshape your relationship with her. Keep us posted! Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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